English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room - 2011-02-23 (page 1 of 3)

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3:25 AM

4

Q: "Possible duplicate" message is difficult to notice

When a question is closed as a duplicate, the duplicate question is selected (by the users who vote to close) and then attached automatically to the top of the message. However, the message is attached as a quote. As you can see on the example below, this is not very noticeable on EL&U, where...

feature-request

@Robusto Hilarious:-)

anyone around?

0

Q: What do you call it when a group of neglected people spontaneously form a cruel society?

I'm trying to come up with a word to describe what happens in cartoons (and probably real life) when a traumatic event leads to a group of ordinary people (usually children) to fend for themselves. They then form a new society resembling a dictatorship ruled by bullies.

5 hours later…

9:04 AM

Hooray, all-new badges! Shiny...

9:25 AM

@RegDwight Congratulation

I think

Thanks.

Was this badge added at the same time as the Talkative badge?

No, just today.

The Talkative badge is ooooold.

78

A: Recent feature changes to Stack Exchange

Jan/Feb/Mar 2011 2011-02-22: Outspoken badge introduced. 2011-02-22: Users can now see their own flag weight on their profile page when it is sufficiently high or low. This value is also visible to moderators. 2011-02-21: You can now embed ads for Area 51 proposals to help support and promot...

Talkative was introduced on December 2nd.

I've noticed that the community have grown large enough that I can't answer a question without actually duplicating someone else's answer...

That's very sad

That said, I'm far from being an expert

Just a foreigner who is pretty fluent in english

10:05 AM

I'm beginning to understand the need of a "too general a question" flag.

Take for example the following question:

1

Q: What is the difference between "assess" and "evaluate"?

What is the difference between assess and evaluate?

meaning vocabulary

I would want to edit it to give it a more fleshed out aspect, but I can't, as what is missing from the question is the actual context.

Well, you can always ask the OP for the actual context in a comment. But of course there's no guarantee that he'll respond.

That's the problem

Well, if he doesn't respond within a reasonable time, you can always just leave a downvote.

while, if they were a fitting close reason, that could be an incitive for the OP and for others to give more details and make their question more interesting.

Well, there is a close reason "too broad".

Has always been there.

10:11 AM

Well it isn't "too broad"

"It's difficult to tell what is being asked here. This question is ambiguous, vague, incomplete, overly broad, or rhetorical and cannot be reasonably answered in its current form."

The question is loud and clear and can be answered

It is just "generic"

One can not say that the OP posted his question to actually solve a problem he had.

[badge:Outspoken] Posted 10 messages in chat that were starred by 10 different users.

Could be, but one can't be sure

nice to have a new chat-related badge

10:13 AM

@Eldros You never know. Then again, nobody should be forced to specify their reasoning.

1 hour ago, by RegDwight

Hooray, all-new badges! Shiny...

@RegDwight True, but sometimes it could lead to better answers

Oh well, commenting and giving a suggestion isn't forcing the OP to do anything.

@Eldros Sure, not arguing about that. It's just that, as I once said on meta, "while I am always happy to share my motives and plans, I don't have the impression that questions on any site of the StackExchange network need to specify why they are being asked, and what the OP is going to do with the answers provided."

3

Q: Is it "just as soon" or "just assume"?

if someone says a phrase that sounds like "I'd just as soon you don't get in an accident, so I'll call you later", are they actually saying "just as soon" or "just assume" or something else?

Wouldn't "I just assume you don't get in an accident, so I'll call you later" make any sense?

10:34 AM

Sure it would.

Then why did all the answerers assumed it would be the first case? Would it be more natural?

I guess so. As a non-native speaker, I'm not interfering.))

So there are questions you are not confortable to answer

It balms my ego a bit.

Haha. Well, there are questions even nohat is not comfortable to answer))

Feb 4 at 0:47, by nohat

i'm just going to duck out and not participate anymore in that question

I used to be able to edit tags without having to wait it to be approved

have this right been revoked with the new system?

(Also a tag synonym should be made between compound and compounds

10:50 AM

Hi. What is a butt heater?

Some kind of heater build in a seat, well to keep the butt warm

The Outspoken One has arrived. Fear my new silver badge!

Nevermind about editing tags, I somehow missed the retag link... I should wake up somehow

@Robusto you are not alone

I never said I was alone.

But you should fear our new silver badges.

Electric heated seats, isn't it?

10:54 AM

@Artic yeah

@Robusto why fear silver when there is gold?

Ok. Thanx

@Artic although, I think it could be possible to have a butt heater made of a kind of cushion filled with hot water

It's the new and strange you should fear, not the silver.

It may be new, but I don't see what so strange about it

I mean, you have the majority of the starred messages displayed on the right

It's strange because it's new.

10:56 AM

And I am anyway quite strange myself in the way I always seek the new and strange

@Robusto and what is old is normal?

Talk about a fallacy

What is old is established and hence not strange.

But what is new can have been predicted and awaited

What are you, a lawyer?

@Eldros Thats a good idea!

@Robusto No, I would have been too lazy to go through the years of study

10:59 AM

I would give your butt heater a pity star if I could.

How about a phase-change-material butt heater?

Phase change material

A phase change material (PCM) is a substance with a high heat of fusion which, melting and solidifying at a certain temperature, is capable of storing and releasing large amounts of energy. Heat is absorbed or released when the material changes from solid to liquid and vice versa; thus, PCMs are classified as latent heat storage (LHS) units. Characteristics and classification PCMs latent heat storage can be achieved through solid-solid, solid-liquid, solid-gas and liquid-gas phase change. However, the only phase change used for PCMs is the solid-liquid change. Liquid-gas phase changes ar...

@RegDwight — Double pity star.

@Robusto Didn't we established star was already given out of pity?

@Robusto Please don't. I have at least 10 of those already.

I was kidding. Lighten up.

11:01 AM

I'm still kidding. Harden up.

In fact, when have you ever known me not to be kidding?

In 1997. Yeah, I am pretty sure you wasn't kidding that one time.

That's between me and my psychoanalyst.

I am your psychoanalyst now.

...

11:02 AM

In fact, let's just shorten that to psycho.

I knew it!

Never trust those guys

Interesting, when you break down pyschotherapist it becomes "Psycho the rapist".

@Eldros Yeah, yeah, you Eldradamus you. You Nostradeldros.

@RegDwight It doesn't give the conspiracy theorist side of me.

Although...

@Robusto Interestingly, if you break down pyschotherapist, it actually becomes "Pyscho the rapist".

Whoever that is.

11:06 AM

You should know, Psycho.

3 mins ago, by RegDwight

In fact, let's just shorten that to psycho.

Lots of echo in here.

It's a huge cave, takes 3 minutes.

Lots of trolls.

19 secs ago, by RegDwight

Lots of echo in here.

Oh! The cave is getting smaller! The walls are moving!

Actually, I need to stop saying "actually" so much. I overuse that word.

Weil einfach einfach einfach ist!

11:08 AM

Simply put.

simyo.de

But I don't want to protect myself from high prices!

@RegDwight that's in the line of this "buffalo" sentence.

@Robusto Actually, them's not prices. Them's expenses or costs.

The line is blurry.

11:10 AM

Kosten? Costs? So blurry indeed.

Whoa, well ain't that ShreevatsaR?

In America we would always say prices.

In fact, price is such a buzzword in American advertising.

So, as a native speaker, I was giving you a more accurate translation. But go ahead, talk about costs in your advertising and see how much product you move.

Whatever. Write to the hand, the face ain't listening.

I'm more thrilled that that's ShreevatsaR right there.

RegDwight: Me? :-) Why?

user image

@RegDwight the face ain't reading. Emphasis mine

11:13 AM

Hi

Hello.

A newbie

@RegDwight — Yeah, and by that logic winken means "wink" because they sound the same.

Welcome

Thanks

11:14 AM

@Robusto Why so serious today? No Kaffee?

Nö.

Das ist schade.

@Robusto Das wird Dein Problem sein.

I know a little bit of german.

Thank God, we're a bit short on that account.

11:15 AM

@Ro

Das wird nur ein Problem. Ich habe so viele Probleme.

@Robusto I know a bit of german too.

:)

Nicht herausfordern, der kann Japanisch!

@Robusto

You have a new fan @Robusto.

11:16 AM

@Robusto I know a bit of German

10 mins ago, by RegDwight

Lots of echo in here.

@RegDwight Not a fan exactly , a friend.

Aber ich kenne kein Deutsch. Nur auf Englisch, bitte.

Plenty of.

@Robusto, drop the act. And the Dictionary too.

11:18 AM

@Robusto Das ist keine problem.

Ich habe gar kein Wörterbuch.

Also, don't copy that floppy.

@Robusto, and what is that?

@Robusto Lollzzz , you have Dictionary.

Robusto is Dictionary.

11:19 AM

@E

14 hours ago, by Robusto

Sometimes I think we should rename this site to GetAFreakinDictionary.SE

I see what you did there.

You see, he's talking about renaming there because currently, this site is called GetAFreakinRobusto.SE.

@RegDwight: I was complaining because you didn't recognize the line from the Coffee Cantata, and you didn't respond. It's "Coffee! Coffee! Coffee muss ich haben!"

You're always complaining for all kinds of funky reasons. Can't keep track.

11:21 AM

Sometimes, I wish there were an off button.

But then it would become boring here.

There is. On your PC. On your monitor. Everywhere! Just look!

Well, you've chased me out, finally. Going to get my kaffee.

But not on Robusto

Enjoy Shutting Down

Anyone from IT Background ?

Feb 11 at 15:10, by Robusto

This chat will self-destruct in 5 minutes. You have 5 minutes to get clear of the chat room.

Everyone and his grandma's dog is from IT background here.

11:23 AM

My dog is also from IT Background

What are you working on ?

See? I told ya.

I am currently working on not talking about IT at least in this chat room)))

Kidding, of course.

Carmine Paolino

Hello. In academic writing, it is correct to say "To the programmer point of view, read operations are identical…" or "From the programmer point of view" is better?

I don't think I've ever seen to anybody's point of view.

Carmine Paolino

ok, thanks :)

I mean, there's a point of view, and it's from that point, quite literally, that the view unfolds.

11:27 AM

From the programmer..... will be better

As I think

:)

But you can say "to the programmer's mind, it all appears the same".

Sure.

It appears to someone that bla.

yeah. Prepositions must be the hardest part of English to learn.

Not just English.

"
Prepositions are always the trickiest part when learning a language (that has them). Master them and the rest is smooth sailing. In German, one is actually married with someone; "married to" would be ungrammatical. In Russian, I am married on my wife, while she is married behind me. Go figure. (The list goes on, but you get the idea.)"

30

A: Saw people referring as "I am married with three kids"

If you're talking about you and your spouse, it's not possible to be "married with" anyone; you can only be "married to" someone. Hence there is no ambiguity in saying "married with three kids", as the "with" cannot be associated with "married".

@RegDwight: Nice!

11:38 AM

If @Robusto is the dictionary here, @RegDwight is like some kind of archivist. Count on him to find the right link/song/reference relevant to the discussion at hand.

Yes, basically I'm archiving Robusto.

Does he like it?

BTW, you misspelled irrelevant.

my mistake

A common typo.

11:41 AM

And nice diversion btw

I always thought you were like an old married couple

I didn't want to divert from @Robusto's likes and dislikes. It's just that he's still struggling with the Kaffeemaschine.

And?

You are not allowed to talk in his back?

My point is, he should be answering the question "does he like it" himself.

One notice who is wearing the pants here.

He won't let me in his backyard without the pants.

I mean. Wait. Hold on.

11:45 AM

Ah!

hey, someone want to play "close this off-topic question"?

Bringiton!

-1

Q: Commodities market questions

What is the relation between treasuries especially of U.S and the price of gold especially bullions?

Yeah I wondered what the OP wanted to ask in this question

I'm not sure if it's even on-topic on Money.SE.

Otherwise I would ask @Kosmonaut to migrate.

money.stackexchange.com

11:47 AM

can he now migrate to a beta site?

I thought this wasn't possible

What about this site?

quant.stackexchange.com

Feb 16 at 15:55, by Kosmonaut

There is a "Migrate to any site" mod option, which says "Bypasses the allowed sites in "close as off-topic", allowing this question to be closed and moved to any site in the Stack Exchange network. Please avoid migrating questions to beta sites unless the circumstances are exceptional."

@Eldros I have no idea what's on-topic on Quantitative Finance. I've only been registered for 16 days.

Quantitave Finance

Thanks.

See, I have no idea what that site's about!

Me neither, that's why I asked

0

Q: Retag Privilege taken into account when proposing an edit.

I think that the privilege to retag questions has become obsolte, now that one could propose an edit with only the changed tag and gain 2 rep from it. But deleting the retag privilege and link should be wrong. So what I propose is, when proposing an edit, if the only change is a change of tag, a...

feature-request

12:02 PM

Um, I'm trying to understand how this is different from the current system...

I mean, currently, if you have the retag privilege, "the change is automatically applied and doesn't need to be approved".

Well, I wanted to make a retag, used the edit button and only added the tag and got 2 rep for it.

If I used the retag button it would have been taken automatically

Ah, okay.

Interesting.

How should I rewrite it to make my point clearer?

Write just that. "I wanted to make a retag, used the edit button and only added the tag and got 2 rep for it. If I used the retag button it would have been taken automatically."

Excellent. Now even half-asleep people like myself will understand.

The problem with me is that I am always half-asleep

As I like to say, I was born like that.

But sometimes it has its good side

12:08 PM

That's not necessarily a problem. Could be life-prolonging.

Then I take it that my abusive eating habit negate the benefits of being half-asleep.

I am a bit worried how to stay awake until 3 o'clock this night, to participate in the THC.

You could take a power nap

And wake up at 12 noon tomorrow.

Don't you have an alarm-clock?

12:11 PM

I do. I like to ignore it.

Oh, Xblast time! TTYL.

12:47 PM

how come we can't find enough votes to close an obviously off-topic question and an obvious duplicate?

That's why I'm saying we need a mod from Europe.

I would vote, but I don't have enough rep

Not that I ask for it too, I want to earn it

@kiamlaluno: I am actually tempted to roll back your edit to the "Why should first person pronoun always be capitalized?" question (^_^)

I mean, now we have two questions with almost the exact same title.

It would help if we had different wordings of the same question.

@RegDwight: That is what the question is asking. It is not asking for "first person pronouns", but for "I". The previous title was probably (I doubt it) the reason the first question was not noted.

But it will be noted now that we have the second wording. However, someone looking for the first wording will no longer be able to find it.

How about a compromise, "Why should the first person pronoun 'I' always be capitalized?"

I maintain that two different wordings are better than one, whether this way or the other.

12:56 PM

That's the point of having duplicate

The compromise is fine, for me.

Excellent. Thanks a lot.

@RegDwight: Thank you for pointing that out.

I opted for the shorter title because that is the way I write. :-)

@RegDwight: “a book about Philippine cuisine written by Dostoyevski” would most certainly be sorted into the “bad sham” category

@kiamlaluno Yeah, that's the deal with dupes, the shorter you make them, the more of them you need to cover all possible wordings.

On the other side of the spectrum, we have giant questions containing every word ever.

1:02 PM

("Looks for questions containing the word ever.")

@FX_ I didn't say my list was comprehensive. Them were just examples.

@RegDwight no accusation on my side, I just love that book example :)

@FX_ It could be also sorted into the "he cooks better than I do!" category.

I wonder how the Librarians proposal's faring...

Wow, 300+ committed!

302

Proposed Q&A site for librarians and library professionals where they can share their expertise about libraries and everything in them.

Currently in commitment.

300+ committed and still no cigar. Just 34%!

Does the commitment increase, when committed users increase their reputation?

1:06 PM

It's very tricky. They are looking at your rep and your badges.

They figure, we need X people who have the A badge, and Y people with the B badge, etc.

As far as the rep is concerned, everything above 10k is pretty much cut off.

I mean, if my reputation increases since the moment I committed to a proposal, does the commitment percentage increase too?

Ummm.... theoretically... I dunno.... yes? I could be lying.

But the point is, you would have to quadruple it or something for it to have a measurable effect.

And again, rep above 10k is basically ignored.

39

A: Area 51 Commit Percent

My answer here: In the first round, we only want to launch sites that will DEFINITELY succeed. So we require (1) lots of users, and (2) lots of users with high rep, because we know that those users contribute a lot and know how the system works. The formula right now is weighted...

Even if that case, it would be impossible to understand if the increment is caused by my reputation, or from somebody else who committed.

Uhmmm… I saw a blu badge on my gravatar here.

Does it mean I get a reply on english.SE?

@kiamlaluno ... or from everybody else's reputation

@kiamlaluno Blu badge? Where? When?

The background color was different from this badge.

I saw a badge on my gravatar, the one to the left of where I write my posts.

1:12 PM

Badge? I'm still confused.

It used a color that is different from the badge that reports the number of posts that refers my username.

@RegDwight: Don't you see any difference?

No.

OK. Write a post containing @kiamlaluno.

@kiamlaluno: here's a post containing @kiamlaluno.

Damn! I am sorry to ask it: can you repeat it? :-)

1:15 PM

Sure @kiamlaluno. Here's another @kiamlaluno.

user image

I think it's always blue for me here.

I've seen it in red on another site.

I saw one that had a different background color, right here.

Oh well. Might be a glitch.

Glitch?

1:17 PM

I guess we'll figure out soon enough if it keeps happening.

A glitch is a short-lived fault in a system. It is often used to describe a transient fault that corrects itself, and is therefore difficult to troubleshoot. The term is particularly common in the computing and electronics industries, and in circuit bending, as well as among players of video games, although it is applied to all types of systems including human organizations and nature. The term derives from the German glitschig, meaning 'slippery', possibly entering English through the Yiddish term glitsh. Electronics glitch An electronics glitch is an undesired transition that occur...

I thought you were referring to a glitch from the speakers. :-)

Let's say it was a "Gremlins act".

Aren't gremlins supposed to come out after midnight?

It's the first time I saw it, and it disappeared after 10 seconds (or less).

They should; I guess they don't see what time is from inside the cables.

They should not see the light from there; they should be safe.

Or water.

In that case, we are safe.

1:22 PM

Everyone's safe!

1

Q: What is the difference between "safe" and "vault"?

What is the difference between safe and vault, where both the words refer to a place where to put things you want to keep safe? As additional question, why does vault seem more frequently used in computer jargon? For example, the Mac OS X has a File vault, and vault is the word used from anti-vi...

usage meaning nouns

Everyone is happy!

Now I am less happy.

I feel like I am reminded of my mistakes.

Nah, just look at all the crap questions I posted.

Forget it and move on.

I was trying to forget it, until "somebody" inlined that question. ;-)

Well, I'm the archive, what am I supposed to do?

0

Q: Disambiguation of American English

Written in 1836 in Texas To the People of Texas & All Americans in the World: Fellow citizens & compatriots—I am besieged, by a thousand or more of the Mexicans under Santa Anna—I have sustained a continual Bombardment & cannonade for 24 hours & have not lost ...

american-english ambiguity

1:26 PM

0

Q: Disambiguation of American English

Written in 1836 in Texas To the People of Texas & All Americans in the World: Fellow citizens & compatriots—I am besieged, by a thousand or more of the Mexicans under Santa Anna—I have sustained a continual Bombardment & cannonade for 24 hours & have not lost ...

american-english ambiguity

Is there a real question in here?

JINX!

I have no idea.

OK, @kiamlaluno owes me a coke!

You have to say it first.

Or rather claim your Jinx rights first.

Feb 17 at 21:19, by Robusto

"The rules of Jinx are clear and inflexible." — Pam Beesley, The Office

He is asking what "the Lord is on our side" means.

I think his question is more historical than linguistic: "Was this used as an expression to encourage people to join them, or was it used as a literal statement, as in, the Lord literally put bushels of corn in the house for them?"

1:29 PM

@Robusto: Diet Coke, normal Coke, or Pepsi Coke?

Is he asking that for the Atheism.SE?

I think both of the options are kind of wrong, actually.

@kiamlaluno — I'll have an original, 1890s-era 8% solution Coke, if you please.

It's more of a relief than an encouragement, and I don't think it was necessarily meant literally, even at that time.

@Robusto: Is it fine if I put a normal coke into one of those bottles that reminds the original bottle? (Pretty please?)

I think it's nothing more than that providence has provided provender for proven patriots.

1:32 PM

user image

@kiamlaluno — [Grumbling] If you must.

They were watching a movie without sounds; that is why you don't hear the noise of their claps.

@RegDwight — [Bows and hurries offstage only to return, shortly thereafter, to take another curtain call]

It's an animated GIF, not a video.

@kiamlaluno You don't? I do. Which is strange as I don't have sound here.

@Robusto: There you go!

1:34 PM

That's Orson Welles, by the way.

Citizen Kane

I thought Orson Wells was older.

The only one clapping at the opera for his poor, untalented wife.

@kiamlaluno According to Wikipedia, Orson Welles was younger at first, and then older.

The other behind him must be a friend; he doesn't clap as vigorously as he does.

@Robusto Coincidentally, you have answered @Eldros' question.

1 hour ago, by Eldros

I always thought you were like an old married couple

1:37 PM

Oh, it's not the Orson Wells I am thinking of. He was born old, and become younger when time passed.

That's Benjamin Button.

Il curioso caso di Benjamin Button (film)

Il curioso caso di Benjamin Button (The Curious Case of Benjamin Button) è un film del 2008 diretto da David Fincher, basato su un breve racconto del 1922 di Francis Scott Fitzgerald. Il film è uscito negli Stati Uniti il 25 dicembre 2008 ed in Italia il 13 febbraio 2009. Trama La storia è tutta un flashback: ambientata nel presente, vengono narrati i fatti di molti anni prima. New Orleans, 1918. Thomas Button (Jason Flemyng) è un ricco uomo d'affari e produttore di bottoni. L'ultimo giorno della prima guerra mondiale sua moglie muore, dando alla luce un bimbo con la salute di un nova...

I cannot be sure I am confusing "Star Trek" with "Orson Wells".

I thought it was Beavis & Butthead.

Well, Brad Pitt does look like Beavis in that shot.

The whole idea of Benjamin Button just skeeved me right out of my skin, so I never saw that film.

Some things are better left unseen.

1:40 PM

It will be on this Friday, I plan to watch.

Well, you kind of skeeve me out too.

Interesting, while I insist that both options are kind of wrong, chaos says that both are kind of right. I suppose that's the same thing.

It's a false dichotomy in either case.

Precisely.

And why such a lengthy quote?

1:43 PM

But anyhow, I will watch anything by David Fincher. Whether I will like it or not, is a separate question.

Hasn't the dude learned how ... ellipsis?

Dude... hehehe... dude... like, dude... hehehe.

Rhetoric => ghettoric.

It that an "inevitably leads to"?

It is the return value of a method. And the method here is grammatical reductivist idiocracy.

1:45 PM

5

Q: Origin of "idiocracy"

Did the word "idiocracy" exist prior to the release of the movie of the same title, or is it a neologism coined by its screenwriters?

etymology neologisms

function getGhettoric(rhetoric) { return "ghettoric"; }

Err, @kiamlaluno, have you tried english.stackexchange.com/questions?sort=newest ?

Or are you looking for something else?

@RegDwight — Interesting question and answer. +1 to both. Oh to have been here in the old days, when men were men and questions were questions. And, uh, answers were answers. Before the Great Lexicographic Shift happened and we were left discussing how "macabre" is different from "banana".

Hey, I am still waiting for that question! I would like to see what answers it receives.

@Kosmonaut is no fool. He would close it in a New York minute.

1:57 PM

@RegDwight: I thought that was what http://english.stackexchange.com/questions showed.

@Robusto Are you sure?

19 hours ago, by nohat

0

A: What is the origin of "kiwifruit"?

Because, you see, the fruit actually comes from the Kiwi bird from New Zealand:

That's an answer, not a question.

@kiamlaluno /questions shows your recent preference, deduced from a cookie or something.

And it has a diagram. You can't close questions that have diagrams.

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