English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

Robusto

12:34 AM

Both are true.

Cerberus

2:02 AM

@BAYMAX The sentence doesn't seem right to me.

Unless you remove one of the to's.

BAYMAX

We do things repeatedly/ periodically which we are attracted to.

@Cerberus

Cerberus

2:19 AM

@BAYMAX Better.

Now I wonder about the space after the slash.

BAYMAX

oh thanks@Cerberus yup i will fix that

CowperKettle

2:36 AM

@Robusto Me too. I want to take a 30 km run. Thus far my longest one has been 26 km.

SmokeDetector

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Offensive body detected, toxic body detected (103): meaning of a sentence in movie Headlock by Amy on english.SE

CowperKettle

3:11 AM

@Robusto They look like Russians.

Robusto

3:29 AM

@CowperKettle Careful with your knees. Running long distances on pavement is what wrecked my knees. But it does feel good while you're doing it. And after, unless you get injured.

Captain Bohemian

5:15 AM

English usage or grammar is harder than science because it has no logic to follow.

CowperKettle

8:08 AM

@CaptainBohemian Russian Grammar: "Hold my beer".

Matt E. Эллен

@CaptainBohemian it's perfectly simple, you just have to be born a native speaker. Then you never have to explain it.

CowperKettle

8:24 AM

Word of the day: drawing pin

@RegDwigнt I don't think it's nonsense

@RegDwigнt The US wanted to see Russia in Afghanistan in 1979? Haha

@RegDwigнt Putin's regime is criminal, and I would not be shocked to learn that it does a lot of illogical evil things.

Starting from the invasion of Ukraine in 2014, there is less and less login in Putin's dealings.

A Russian woman, Yulia Tsvetkova, has just been fined 75 000 rubles for making this drawing.

Two monthly salaries for a drawing that says: "A family is where love is".

2

She is currently under charges of "promoting homosexuality" and "producing pornography" (she drew naked women) and may get 2 years in prison.

CowperKettle

11:10 AM

> The substance to be examined does not contain either NDMA or NDEA or other N-Nitrosamine impurity above the limits provided above or several impurities at whatever level.

This is from a Chinese certificate of conformity for a drug substance. I don't understand the phrase in bold at all.

Færd

@M.A.R. Not yet

Matt E. Эллен

11:27 AM

@CowperKettle "it does not contain several impurities at whatever level". It might mean that it doesn't contain any (whatever has been used where any should have been) level of mixed together impurities, e.g NDMA + NDEA. but it might not. very confusing

so any impurities are only of one type

and those impurities are within limits

but, that's just a guess

Luyw

11:59 AM

hello

can someone see if this phrase can be made better please?

"We are pleased to inform producers of fruits and vegetables, red and white meats, fish, as well as manufacturers of food, consumer goods, of hygiene and body care products, and perfumes, of household products, of interior and exterior decoration products ... that ..."

Robusto

12:23 PM

@CowperKettle @Matt probably has it right. Still, word omissions happen all the time, so it's possible the text means "several [other] impurities at whatever level," but that's just a guess as well. If I were reading it that's probably what I would infer.

CowperKettle

This Certificate was issued by the Council of Europe's body. Probably a Frenchman wrote the text.

> This certificate is renewed from 26 May 2016 according to the provisions of Resolution AP-CSP (07) 1, and of Directive 2001/83/EC and Directive 2001/82/EC and any subsequent amendment/ and the related guidelines.

This kills me. There is no structure in Russian for "is renewd from". It must be either was renewed on or has been renewed since.

So I must just pick one or the other and hope for the best, because this is a translation for an agency, and I cannot get to the authors of the documents.

Robusto

@CowperKettle I'd opt for the latter. It's the closest in spirit, still being in some form of present tense.

CowperKettle

Who knows what can get into a Frenchman's mind..

Robusto

As the saying goes, "You get 50 Frenchmen in a room, you have 50 opinions."

Cerberus

12:52 PM

@CowperKettle If it was issued by the Council of Europe, can't you find a version in another language you can read?

I'm sure people where would be willing to help with French or German.

And there may even be a Russian version, the country being a member.

Mitch

OED Text Visualizer

Cerberus

It's very nice, Tchrist linked to a blog post about it earlier.

Robusto

@Mitch From that chart it appears there is virtually no such thing as Old English, then. Beowulf and other works would have to be in Anglo-Saxon. Which is not how I was taught.

And I know those are two names for the same thing, but still, how are we to define the bounds of English at all?

@CowperKettle What she drew was not the obscenity, the official reaction to someone's expression of love was.

Cerberus

1:12 PM

@Robusto Why not?

The chart is just about some short text which Mitch fed to the web form.

Mitch

@Robusto The way I interpreted that, without having read all their website, is that words like 'the' were Germanic but not specific to Old English. 'seem' from Old Norse, and 'blessing' Old English but not in other Germanics? or maybe the earliest expression of the word was in Old English and not in others though it may appear as cognates but later? I don't know.

> Emma Woodhouse, handsome, clever, and rich, with a comfortable home
and happy disposition, seemed to unite some of the best blessings of
existence; and had lived nearly twenty-one years in the world with very
little to distress or vex her.

what I submitted

'unite' was the only latinate one, despite most of her text being so formal.

@Robusto Aren't those nearly the same thing, if they can be delineated as things at all?

Cerberus

@Mitch You mean "Latin".

Many words are Latinate, but probably entered the language via French.

Robusto

8 mins ago, by Robusto

And I know those are two names for the same thing, but still, how are we to define the bounds of English at all?

Mitch

Doesn't @tchrist have something to say about that? Like there's no such thing as Anglo-Saxon? I don't know.

People keep using the word 'ghost' so maybe it's a thing.

Robusto

That's what I was taught. The Old English scholar who taught the classes I took frowned on people calling the writings "Anglo-Saxon."

Mitch

1:17 PM

@Cerberus Yeah I use 'Latinate' to mean Latin or French because I may not know which one it was borrowed from.

@Robusto Isn't Anglo-Saxon what they spoke before they got on the boat and OE after they got off on the island?

Robusto

@Mitch Well, French has words like "the" too. Does that make it Germanic?

Mitch

@Robusto ??

'ille' is not really cognate to 'the'

Cerberus

@Mitch In that case, you were wrong; see your chart.

The red words are Romance.

Mitch

@Cerberus ?? wrong about what?

Robusto

@Mitch From my understanding, they were Saxons before they got on the boat, and Anglo-Saxons once they got to England.

@Mitch Le is a definite article, non?

Cerberus

1:20 PM

E.g. disposition, existence, comfortable.

So they are Latinate.

Mitch

@Cerberus I'm just lumping Latin and Romance together. So what if OED is separating them. It's a useful distinction about provenance, but I'm making a useful conjunction because using either makes the English sound fancy.

@Robusto Yes, of course, but the chart is about provenance, not part of speech.

Robusto

@Mitch If it's about provenance, then how are there any English words on the chart? Did they just bootstrap themselves into the language?

Cerberus

7 mins ago, by Mitch

'unite' was the only latinate one, despite most of her text being so formal.

@Mitch This is what you said, and it is not correct ↑.

Mitch

@Robusto Oh. I thought there was some tribe next door to the Saxons in Northern Germany called Angles or something similar and they were on the boat too.

Robusto

@Mitch Angles, Saxons, and Jutes. The point is, they weren't hyphenated anything until they got there.

Mitch

1:23 PM

@Robusto I don't think they're trying to be like that. I gave my understanding above (that I think they are saying peculiar to English, and in no other Germanic).

If you still think it is strange, then you can 'help them make it better' via a link on their site.

@Cerberus Oh. Sorry. Then 'the only directly Latin one'. Does that make you more comfortable?

Robusto

@Mitch I'm not looking for a job.

Mitch

@Robusto I'm pretty sure they won't pay.

Just like here

@Cerberus Wait, would you consider 'unite' -not- latinate?

Robusto

The governor here said masks must be worn even while exercising outdoors. That really sucks.

Cerberus

@Mitch Yes.

Mitch

@Robusto keep it around your neck and then pull it up when a cop comes into view. Also, the cop is not wearing one.

@Cerberus What would you consider it?

Cerberus

1:27 PM

@Mitch It is certainly Latinate. Whether it came to English directly from Latin I do not know. But it was the word only that was incorrect.

Robusto

@Mitch But when cycling in the heat, wearing something around your neck limits your ability to cool off.

Mitch

@Cerberus Oh sure, I forgot about the French

Cerberus

OK.

Mitch

@Robusto I'm totally there with you. Also the sweat (and breath humidity) gets all over the mask, which, while definitely annoying and gross, supposedly limits the effectivity of the mask somehow.

which direction (giving or getting the virus) I can't remember or figure out.

but as with all things, you don't need to think too hard to realize that it's better than nothing.

Cerberus

Why, oh, why must American culture always be so immoderate?

Captain Bohemian

1:31 PM

Why does ad-lib mean improvise?

Mitch

more important than that, I just saw the 2020 version of Emma (motivating the use of the quote above).

and...

Clueless was much better

Cerberus

@CaptainBohemian Sounds like ugly, semi-incorrect commercialese.

Mitch

Alicia Silverstone as Emma (or whatever her name was in Clueless) and Brittany Murphy as her poor sidekick.

In Clueless everybody was likeable. They had their quirks but they were still all positive characters.

In Emma, everybody was awful. Emma was manipulative, poor Harriet was a doormat, everybody just seemed to be mean, even Mr. Knightley (not always though).

Emma (the movie) was like a gossip fest, housewives of LA. Clueless (the identical plot) was more about good intentions (of matchmaking) gone awry.

I mean both were both.

Matt E. Эллен

so Emma was to realistic for your tastes?

Mitch

But the mean girls gossip was in your face in Emma.

@MattE.Эллен Dude, are you trying to look into my soul?

Matt E. Эллен

1:39 PM

trying not to :þ

Captain Bohemian

@Cerberus I just looked up, finding it's short for ad-libitum.

Mitch

Also, in the Emma movie, they were playing every line for laughs. As opposed to being subtle in Clueless.

@MattE.Эллен I turn the mirror towards you and blind you with your own light!

Cerberus

@CaptainBohemian Yes, but it means something like "at your pleasure".

However you want it.

Mitch

@MattE.Эллен haha but no, no one talks like that.

@Cerberus ex falso quodlibet

Matt E. Эллен

@Mitch except in that one village Emma is from.

Mitch

1:42 PM

As You Like It but not Anything Goes.

Cerberus

@Mitch What does that mean? Anything out of falsehood?

Mitch

@MattE.Эллен No kidding. Who travels to London to get a haircut?

@Cerberus It's a math thing.

From false, anything follows.

F -> P

Matt E. Эллен

@Mitch Dude. My girlfriend travels to Thessaloniki, from oxfordshire, to get a haircut

once per year, but still

Mitch

@MattE.Эллен Depends on her hair of course.

I suppose in 1815 that was also a possibility.

Every year do a grand tour but directly to Greece.

Cerberus

@Mitch Ah, OK.

Matt E. Эллен

1:45 PM

:D

Mitch

A stop in Gibraltar, then Malta, then Patras

or what is the port at Athens?

Or do you go to Istanbul because it's closer?

Matt E. Эллен

Athens port, I assume

Mitch

Pireas (gmapped it)

Matt E. Эллен

@Mitch maybe, although I think more likely Sophia

Mitch

Oh.

and probably not lately.

holy crap, I feel like the world is standing still, but I suppose factories are still running and ships are still transferring goods?

Matt E. Эллен

1:49 PM

I've never been to Sophia :D but I hear it's not far from Thessaloniki

@Mitch i'm back at work pretty much full time. they're even supplying masks

Mitch

at the work office or from home?

Matt E. Эллен

office

Mitch

and everybody else too?

Matt E. Эллен

i was working from home for as long as possible

@Mitch no, people who can WFH still are

Mitch

how is the AC? (I feel like I've heard it's been bad there this summer)

Matt E. Эллен

1:51 PM

we had a couple of hot weeks, but it's a good temperature now

do you work in an office?

Mitch

I check Bangalore every so often just to make myself feel better (I've never been there but hear things). And usually it doesn't make me feel better.

Matt E. Эллен

check it how?

Mitch

Like it'll be 31 here and I'll check and it'l be 25....ohit's nighttime there...daytime... 30.

goddamit

Matt E. Эллен

I see

Mitch

@MattE.Эллен phone. change the location.

it's more painful somehow to do it on my laptop like through a browsers and any weather page (wunderground or accuweather) because their autosuggest isn't as good)

Matt E. Эллен

1:54 PM

@Mitch so you fly to Bangalore, check the weather on your phone, then fly home

Mitch

well, sort of.

not really.

Matt E. Эллен

:D

Mitch

I'm not getting on a plane nowadays

Robusto

@Cerberus We are the restless people who left Europe. That's why.

Mitch

@Cerberus wait...how did that come up? Of the many things that could have motivated that, what was it?

Matt E. Эллен

1:58 PM

@Mitch America is immoderate one time. One time! And now they have a reputation.

Mitch

Which one time?

Robusto

It was Mitch's fault. And now we all have to suffer for one indiscretion on his part.

Mitch

immoderate or intemperate?

or maybe unmitigated?

Matt E. Эллен

you're an unmitigated immoderate

Mitch

@Robusto It wasn't me. And if it was me, I didn't mean it. And if I didn't mean it, it was taken out of context. And if was in context then they deserved it. And if they didn't deserve it, it was a natural mistake. And if it wasn't a natural mistake... how dare you!

@MattE.Эллен That does not sound good.

Cerberus

2:05 PM

@Robusto Hah, I suppose so.

It began with religious outliers.

@Mitch How they are now suddenly making mouth caps compulsory everywhere.

It's all or nothing. No grey areas, compromises.

You're either right or you're wrong.

Robusto

@Mitch I didn't know you went to law school.

Mitch

@Robusto There's -always- a defense

@Cerberus Which they?

Cerberus

American authorities?

Mitch

2:23 PM

Oh. You can't take the current US top administration as definitive of Americaness.

Despite the way the press delivers it, the medical leadership has been consistent: wear masks. At the beginning (in March in the US) it was 'Masks are great at reducing infection, but we have no stockpile so save them for docs/nurses." This got translated into the oversimplifying message as 'Don't use masks'.

Now that there are enough masks, the science hasn't changed but the messaging has. Use masks.

I don't know what it is like elsewhere. In Japan, people just wear masks without being told.

In Florida, people are just idiots.

Cerberus

2:41 PM

I was talking about the extreme measures, like wearing a mask while exercising outside. And this is by local government, praesumably. First, no measures were deemed necessary at all, and then it becomes like this.

Mitch

2:57 PM

@Cerberus All I can guess is that's it is bad leadership and bad planning and bad coordination. Since there is little to no or bad direction from the top, reactions devolve to state and local governments, and they don't as much resource to plan as well.

Cerberus

3:13 PM

What I am talking about is how extreme this reaction now seems to be.

Robusto

4:43 PM

@Cerberus In an unplanned-for pandemic, everything seems extreme. Right now we're fishtailing all over the road because nothing was thought out in advance, every move is a shitting-the-pants reaction to the last misjudgment.

Cerberus

Even though America was late to receive the pandemic, I still don't understand these policies about face masks.

politico.eu/article/…

Rules compared between countries.

CowperKettle

Today was the warmest 10th of July in Yekaterinburg for the last 132 years. It reached 35.5°C.

It really feels like on a Black Sea coast

Hooray for global warming.

Cerberus

5:00 PM

Yuck.

How are the forest fires so far?

CowperKettle

They are very far from here.

Maybe 1000 km to the north-east

Maybe more

Cerberus

Is Moscow covered in smoke yet?

CowperKettle

I don't think so

It's more than two days by train from here to Irkutsk, which is in East Siberia.

Even Moscow is closer to us - only a meager day and 5 hours on a train.

It will take three days by train to reach the fire-stricken area from Yekaterinburg

We are in the left corner, Irkutsk is near Lake Baikal and it's about 1000 km further than Irkutsk

Cerberus

Hmm so the fires are mostly in the east.

I can read the names.

CowperKettle

There is a mild cluster of fires 500 km to the north of our city.

I have never traveled to the east of Tyumen.

It's all Terra Incognita for me, East Siberia

Two years ago I had a railway ticket to Abakan, to spend 2 weeks mountain walking with friends. But I fell ill and had to return the ticket.

Or even Barnaul. I don't recall now.

fires.ru

Cerberus

5:13 PM

How about the fires in the west?

CowperKettle

You can look at the map via the link

Cerberus

Oh, right.

So none near the large cities in the west.

CowperKettle

Yep

RegDwigнt

5:28 PM

@CowperKettle yes, they basically lured the USSR into it. And the USSR took the bait and paid the price.

There was nothing Hahaha about that.

@CowperKettle you can say that about anything at all. That doesn't make it true.

I would not be shocked to learn that Cerberus does a lot of illogical evil things.

I would not be shocked to learn that you eat children alive.

Now what.

@CowperKettle that's not two monthly salaries for a drawing that says: "A family is where love is".

That's two monthly salaries for a drawing that says: "Support LGBT families". Which is against the law.

And not the supporting itself, mind, but the propaganda. If she wants to support LGBT families, she is free to do that in her own time. Instead she tells me to do it. No, thanks. I'm already doing that. And not by drawing shitty pictures.

RegDwigнt

5:46 PM

That woman flooded the Internet with her shitty pornography. And not on Pornhub but on sites children use.

She's a nutcase.

Why are you defending nutcases. Don't you have worthy people to root for and help.

It's like George Floyd all over again.

They could choose Neil deGrasse Tyson as their figurehead. Or James Earl Jones. Or Will Smith, for fuck's sake.

Cerberus

Pornography?

RegDwigнt

Instead they pick a criminal who threatens a pregnant woman with a gun. And they literally put a halo over his head.

The world is fucking insane.

@Cerberus yeah she was obsessed with putting pictures of vaginas on every social network she could find.

CowperKettle

@RegDwigнt A fascist law, I know.

I don't care much about fascism.

Cerberus

@RegDwigнt Oh, I thought you were referring to the drawing.

@CowperKettle About or for?

RegDwigнt

@CowperKettle So why do you live in fascism, then.

Cerberus

5:55 PM

I wouldn't say Russia is a fascist state. There are some fascistoid tendencies, though.

RegDwigнt

You are not changing it, and you are not moving away. You're making your money there. That's just dishonest.

Cerberus

Oh, you're being unfair.

RegDwigнt

I am being unfair?

This is fucking libel.

Half my family died fighting actual fascists.

Kids these days know nothing, and do nothing about anything. They just scream and shout.

Cerberus

Now, now.

I think we're all on the same side here.

RegDwigнt

I do not think we are.

Cerberus

5:57 PM

shrugs

RegDwigнt

Russia is not a fascist state. And fuck anyone who says that.

Cerberus

Nobody said that but you.

RegDwigнt

There are all kinds of things I can't publicly say in Germany or Canada or the US. And they won't make me pay a fine of 900 Euro. They will put me in jail for five years.

Get a reality check.

Cerberus

Mind mind.

RegDwigнt

There is one very simple maxim to live by. Works for anyone at any age.

Before you try to fix the world, clean your room.

Fix your room first. Then your house, then your front yard. Then help your neighbors. Then your street, then your town. In this order.

These are the things you are personally responsible for.

If you can't fix what's yours, you can't fix what isn't.

As I am typing this, the two square yards to my immediate right are a mess. An indescript pile of instruments and LEGO.

I cannot dream of bringing order to the world entire if I cannot even dream of bringing order to the two square yards right next to me.

Cerberus

6:12 PM

I see a false dichotomy, and a straw man.

RegDwigнt

It's not a false dichotomy because you can only spend each second once.

I can spend it on helping a child in Africa, or I can spend it on helping my godson.

It's either-or.

Or I can do even less and just sit on the Internet and discuss some crazy lady who posts vaginas on Instagram.

And just like that the second is gone, and I've done nothing to make the world a better place.

If you really want to help make the world a better place, stop talking about all the things you can't do, and start doing the things that you can.

That's not a straw man. That would literally make the world a better place for everyone, if everyone just did that and nothing else.

Clean your room and call your mom.

Robusto

6:33 PM

@Cerberus If it ain't a fascist state, it'll do until one gets here.

Mitch

7:15 PM

@RegDwigнt Dude

"Hi Mom, I just called to say I love you. Also, would you mind coming by and cleaning my room for me?"

"Yes, I would also be very grateful for a sandwich."

sniff

Færd

7:52 PM

I just found a bunch of interesting charts about Afghanistan. The USSR invaded Afghanistan in 1979 and left almost a decade later. You can easily tell that period apart in most of these charts.

The sources are the World Bank, the UN Refugee Agency, and FAO.

Thought I'd contribute a regional voice to the discussion about Russia. :)

The number of doctors per capita and hospital beds per capita did increase some during that period I think.

Oh the last one is the number of tractors and agricultural machinery.

Cerberus

Very interesting.

That last graph is odd.

Færd

data.worldbank.org/indicator/AG.AGR.TRAC.NO?locations=AF

It's on the WB

The oddity I mean

Cerberus

Oh, I believe you.

Færd

But yeah I wasn't aware of the magnitude of the damage.

Cerberus

But there seems to be no relation between wheat production and agricultural equipment.

Færd

8:03 PM

I think most of the wheat had been and continued to be produced without sophisticated machinery.

Maybe.

The total number is very low for a country.

Cerberus

I have read A Thousand Splendid Suns, in which it is suggested that the country fared much better under Soviet rule than under Taleban rule.

Færd

Hmm. In what respect?

Cerberus

@Færd True. But I also wonder how hard it is to count those things in a country like Afghanistan.

Færd

It's not impossible to imagine

@Cerberus Right

Cerberus

To normal families living in Kabul, everything seemed better before the Taleban conquered the country.

Also in Herat.

But perhaps it was written from a one-sided perspective.

Færd

8:05 PM

Maybe the capital and some other bigger cities did better under the Soviets but not the average Afghan?

Cerberus

Possibly, but that is not what the book suggested to me at the time.

Færd

Perhaps a force like the Taliban is most feared in those areas.

Cerberus

Certainly.

Færd

Did they rule over Kabul for long tho?

Cerberus

The Taleban?

For quite some time.

Færd

8:07 PM

Or at all? Yes.

Cerberus

And it was not just the Taleban.

Færd

> In a bid to establish their rule over all Afghanistan, the Taliban expanded from their Kandahar base sweeping large territories. In early 1995 the movement moved towards Kabul, but they suffered a devastating defeat against government forces of the Islamic State of Afghanistan under the command of Ahmad Shah Massoud.
While retreating from Kabul, Taliban fighters started shelling the city,[112] killing many civilians. The media reported in March 1995 that, following the Taliban's shelling, they lost much respect from Afghans and were seen as just another "power-hungry" militia.[113]

Cerberus

The departure of the Soviets introduced a long period of devastating conflicts, I believe.

Færd

Right, that seems to be what happened.

> The Taliban entered Kabul on 27 September 1996 and established the Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan.

> After 9/11, Massoud's United Front troops and United Front troops of Abdul Rashid Dostum (who returned from exile) ousted the Taliban from power in Kabul with American air support in Operation Enduring Freedom.

Cerberus

> After the fall of Mohammad Najibullah's[69] government in April 1992, different mujahideen factions entered the city and formed a government under the Peshawar Accords, but Gulbuddin Hekmatyar's party refused to sign the accords and started shelling the city for power, which soon escalated into a full-scale conflict. This marked the start of a dark period of the city: at least 30,000 civilians were killed in a period known locally as the "Kabul Wars."[70] About 80 percent of the city was devastated and destroyed by 1996.[71][72] The old city and western areas were among the worst-hit. A T…

This was before the Taleban...

But you've probably already read it.

Færd

8:12 PM

I took a look :)

Cerberus

At least none of these things are happening now.

I think the American invasion was fairly swift.

Færd

But the Taliban is roaring back

Cerberus

So I think the situation in Kabul was never very bad under Soviet rule. Then the early nineties were terrible. Since then, it has been somewhat better. But still not good.

Færd

Ah

Cerberus

None of the largest cities are currently controlled by the Taleban, I believe.

It's strange how Herat isn't marked on that map.

So the Taliban only control a relatively small portion of the population and of the economy, I think.

Færd

8:19 PM

But the government has to make a deal with them because the invasion and the ensuing war couldn't stamp them out.

So the American project failed in achieving its objective in Afghanistan.

And Trump's willingness to make a deal with the Taliban made news a while ago.

They're still very much a force to be reckoned with.

Cerberus

Yeah.

They have been slowly gaining ground for many years now.

All the large red dots are still under government control.

The government have also reconquered some territory.

But the Taleban have always been supported by Pakistan.

So they are really hard to stamp out.

Færd

That's better resolution!

Yeah

It's crazy

Cerberus

The Afghan government is of course rather corrupt, so there is some support for the Taleban.

But I think it is a bit like IS: most people hate them.

They are slightly less bad than IS.

Færd

I think so. Would depend also on your religion and ethnicity.

Cerberus

Yeah, sometimes IS are considered the lesser evil.

By some Sunnites in Iraq.

I believe there may also be some ethic issues in Afghanistan.

Which push some people away from the government.

But I don't know enough about it.

Færd

8:27 PM

Shiites in Afghanistan are afraid of the Taliban of course.

@Cerberus there are

Ethnic groups in Afghanistan

Afghanistan is a multiethnic and mostly-tribal society. The population of the country is divided into the following ethnolinguistic groups: Pashtun, Tajik, Hazara, Uzbek, Aymāq, Turkmen, Baloch, Pashai, Nuristani, Gujjar, Arab, Brahui, Pamiri, Kyrgyz and few others. The Afghan National Anthem and the Afghan Constitution mention a total of 14 ethnic groups. == National identity == The term "Afghan" is synonymous with the ethnonym "Pashtun" and has been mentioned as early as the 3rd century, referring to the tribes inhabiting the lands south of the Hindu Kush around the Sulaiman Mountains. It became...

Cerberus

How many Shiites are there?

Ethnic and sectarian issues.

Færd

> Afghanistan is an Islamic republic, in which most citizens follow Islam. As much as 90% of the population follow Sunni Islam.[1] According to The World Factbook Sunni Muslims constitute between 84.7 - 89.7% of the population, and Shia Muslims between 10 - 15%. 0.3% do not follow Islam.

> The Hazaras are the third largest ethnic group in Afghanistan... Most of the Hazaras practice Shia Islam, while some of their minorities are Sunni. They are between 6[8] to 7 million.

Cerberus

I see.

Ethnic and sectarian groups often overlap to some degree.

tchrist

8:56 PM

Flemings vs Walloons.

Cerberus

9:08 PM

But those are all Catholics.

Or were.

SmokeDetector

10:56 PM

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Offensive answer detected (78): Is there a single word for an idea that receives acceptance not due to approval, but because opposing it is risky? by Ingrid Kvalvik on english.SE

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