English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

waiwai933

12:42 AM

@Kosmonaut Thanks for pushing through the tag wiki edits. However, just FYI, I fat-fingered this one, essentially reverting it, and am not expecting it to be approved.

Robusto

3:04 AM

Weird. I received a comment apparently to an invisible question or answer:

I want to tell @Orbling I'm not planning on running for the moderator spot. Maybe he'll get this reply.

Benjol

6:04 AM

@nohat, not running for election?

RegDwight

10:26 AM

@Robusto Those invisible questions are mod nominations.

This has all kinds of implications.

23

Q: I can't undo or change my vote in the primary election phase.

I've cast my votes in both the Stack Overflow and Super User primaries, but I've changed my mind about one of the votes I cast. I tried to revoke the vote but was told that the vote was locked (as is expected as the nominations are effectively questions). If the candidate edits his nomination I...

18

Q: Please stop counting Moderator Election Votes as part of our profile.

I was most dismayed to see that votes I made for moderator candidates were being added to my profile stats. It does not seem right that these votes should count the way question and answer votes do. (Kobi, and others, seem to agree.) This also works against those of us who are working to an up/...

feature-request bug status-completed moderator-election vote-count

8

Q: Are election primary votes intended to count towards your Q&A votes?

In this question, Kobi pointed out that primary votes on moderator election candidates count toward your total votes on SO (outside of the election), a behavior which I tested and confirmed. Is this intended? If so, does a primary candidate vote count as a question vote, answer vote, or neither?...

bug status-completed moderator-election vote-count clarification

Robusto

10:40 AM

Thanks, @RegDwight. I posted a reply to @Orbling inline to his question.

Latest one here:

english.stackexchange.com/election#post-12649

RegDwight

Oh you evil anarchist...

Robusto

hehehehe.

RegDwight

Here's a pat on the back from an evil communist.

Robusto

So that's why you fled Rodina after the fall of the CCCP ...

RegDwight

Yes. I'm constantly looking for new countries to establish communism in.

Your little snowy backyard is on my list already.

Robusto

10:44 AM

Well, you could wait a few years and see if it will take in Russia again. The 100th anniversary of the revolution is right around the corner.

And isn't Putin kind of like a Tsar now?

RegDwight

He probably thinks so.

Robusto

Except for the hemophilia gene.

This is how I picture you anyway:

RegDwight

But I wouldn't want to mess with him. He's too good a singer.

Robusto

RegDwight

►

Someone doesn't like deep linking or what?

Robusto

10:47 AM

RegDwight

Yes, that's the other Putin.

Robusto

Wow, his technique must be brilliant. Everyone applauded.

That is positively surreal.

You can't make this shit up.

So that's what they mean by a "white" Russian.

Total lack of soul.

And EVERYBODY IS CLAPPING ON THE DOWNBEAT! They're all white Russians!

@RegDwight: I can only imagine the pride you must feel in the Motherland at being able to link that clip.

RegDwight

Hehe. I only know of this unmakeupable shit thanks to one of my non-Russian friends.

I'm just checking old photos of mine, you're actually quite close.

Robusto

I guess Alexandra must have been a sucker for balloons, yeah?

RegDwight

Them were like that.

Robusto

10:58 AM

I think we've been looking in all the wrong places trying to find Anastasia. We should have been hitting the carnivals.

RegDwight

►

Robusto

Seriously, clapping on the downbeat? Is that an Eastern European thing?

RegDwight

No. Not clapping on the downbeat is the US thing.

Robusto

Backbeat

Backbeat is a term applied to a rhythmic accentuation on even beats. Backbeat may also refer to: *Backbeat (biography), of pioneer rock and roll drummer Earl Palmer *Backbeat (film) (1994), chronicles the early days of The Beatles in Hamburg, Germany **Backbeat (soundtrack), original soundtrack of the 1994 film Backbeat *Electro backbeat, musical genre *Back Beat Records, record label *The BackBeat Series of headphones from Altec Lansing See also *Beat (music) *Beat (music)#Downbeat *Off-beat (music) *Syncopation *Vocal group from The Sing Off

It's the spine of jazz and rock.

RegDwight

I was just going to comment that it's due to jazz.

Robusto

11:01 AM

And rap and hip-hop.

But it's credited as a black thing.

RegDwight

You can't teach a German to clap on two, four, six, eight.

No freaking way.

You will die trying.

Robusto

Hence my play on "white" Russians.

Nah, but you can teach them to march, eight to the bar.

RegDwight

That you don't have to teach them.

Robusto

They are born knowing that? Suddenly everything makes sense.

RegDwight

I am here to help.

Some interesting discussion here:

yehoodi.com/comment/87031/why-do-we-clap-on-2-4-6-8-beat

The post no. 12 is particularly relevant. That's what happens to Germans.

Robusto

11:07 AM

Also, I guess you have provided the picture that proves where cummings got his inspiration for this:

poetry-archive.com/c/in_just.html

RegDwight

Somehow that reminds me of Brainiac.

Robusto

In classical music, accenting the off-beats is syncopation. In jazz & rock, it's how you get all that energy.

RegDwight

Well, now look at who the classical composers were. Beethoven, Mozart, Haydn. Is it any wonder that Germans like their ones, threes, fives, sevens?

Robusto

Curiously, though, J. S. Bach rather fancied the off-beats.

RegDwight

Bach is baroque, not classic.

(Whom am I telling that?)

He also liked his Krebs der Umkehrung and whatnot.

Robusto

11:21 AM

"Classical" is a big tent. People count Monteverdi in there as well.

RegDwight

Well, yeah, for some folks, Tchaikovski is a classical composer, too.

Not for me.

Next thing they tell me, The Beatles were classical composers.

Robusto

Mind != Blown.

Classic != Classical

RegDwight

Sorry, too much German. Klassik.

Robusto

Bach used to piss me off. I'd get marked off on my music theory compositions if I wrote a G-F# trill over an F-natural, but he could get away with shit like that.

RegDwight

Interestingly, it just occurred to me that I don't know the English term for Krebs der Umkehrung.

Robusto

11:25 AM

I was going to ask for an explanation.

Are you referring to a tritone?

RegDwight

Nope. Melody inversion.

Robusto

As in diabolus in musica?

Ah.

What does cancer have to do with that (or crustaceans, for that matter)?

RegDwight

Umkehrung is turning upside-down, Krebs is playing backwards.

In Esperanto, it's kankro, too.

And lo and behold, in English it's crab.

Robusto

My fucking sadist Music Theory instructor also made us write a fugue. God, what a pathetic little exercise that was.

RegDwight

Crab canon

A crab canon is an arrangement of two things that are complementary and backward, similar to a palindrome. Originally it is a musical term for a kind of canon in which one line is reversed in time from the other (e.g. FABACEAE EAECABAF). A famous example is found in J. S. Bach's A Musical Offering, which also contains a canon ("Quaerendo invenietis") combining retrogression with inversion, i.e., the music is turned upside down by one player, which is a table canon. The use of the term in non-musical contexts was popularized by Douglas Hofstadter in Gödel, Escher, Bach. See also * Mirro...

Robusto

11:29 AM

I thought that was a retrograde canon.

RegDwight

Yeah, retrogression plus inversion.

Robusto

Isn't there a piece, perhaps by Bach, that is an exact musical palindrome? It gets to the middle and then plays backward until the beginning? That notion just popped out of the dim recesses of my memory.

If anyone could make that shit work, it would be Bach.

RegDwight

►

Robusto

Ah, so that is what we're talkinga bout.

You know, I think Bach had Attention Deficit Disorder. He couldn't put two notes together without modulating.

Plus ... 23 kids.

RegDwight

Bach rules hard at enharmonics.

Songwriters of today could learn so much from him.

Robusto

11:35 AM

You know who is really underrated as a composer? Liszt. A lot of people dismiss him as a showy piano virtuoso, but there is real depth to his music.

RegDwight

I detested playing Liszt when I was a child. It was so freaking hard.

Robusto

Yeah, well, that constitutes child abuse in the U.S.

Parents get locked up for that shit over here.

I gotta get my Frühstuck ... TTYL.

RegDwight

CU.

And Frühstück.

Robusto

12:28 PM

What's a dieresis or two among friends?

I'm just happy I can remember what to call breakfast in English before I've had my coffee.

And ... fucking pedant!

RegDwight

Them's compliment words where I come from.

But OMFG, you're now ahead of nohat. So tell me, my dear friend, should we just fight it out like real men or what?

Robusto

You're a man? Shit, I've been wasting all this time chatting you up ...

RegDwight

And not only that.

Feb 4 at 14:30, by Robusto

OK, fucking with me ...

BTW, saying that women can't fight it out like real men is sexist talk. You sexist.

Robusto

Guilty as hell, your Honor.

RegDwight

I'm just wondering how long it will take you to reach the point where you'll be hitting the rep cap from passive rep alone.

Robusto

12:32 PM

IDK. I'm no Jon Skeet.

RegDwight

Hm. And JSBangs has killed my record. He now has the highest upvoted answer ever. Congrats for taking the lead, @JSBangs!

Robusto

BTW, if you're elected moderator, we're not passing any Ermächtigungsgesetz, so get those thoughts of world domination out of your head.

RegDwight

Then again, I still hold the record for the highest upvoted comment and the most downvoted answer. Just try to beat that one!

I actually thought about including that info in my nomination, but I was afraid it could be misunderstood. (^_^)

Robusto

I'm actually not interested in rep. I wanted the frequent-flyer miles.

Imagine my surprise ...

RegDwight

Well, vote for me! I promise free miles for everyone! Frequent flyer or not!

I will pay you a ton of tugrik!

Robusto

12:36 PM

I didn't know it was sold by the ton.

RegDwight

Mongolian tögrög

The tögrög or tugrik (, tögrög) (sign: ₮; code: MNT) is the official currency of Mongolia. It was historically subdivided into 100 möngö (мөнгө). Currently the lowest denomination in regular use is the 10-tögrög note and the highest is the 20,000-tögrög note. Currency sign is . In 2010, the tögrög was the best-performing currency world-wide. History The tögrög was introduced on December 9, 1925 at a value equal to one Soviet ruble, where one ruble or tögrög was equal to of silver. It replaced the Mongolian dollar and other currencies and became the sole legal currency on April 1, 1928...

Oh, Xblast time! BRB.

Robusto

Wow, I'm rep-capped for today and it's not even 8:00 a.m. EST. I guess i can coast for the rest of the day.

RegDwight

Congrats! And smooth sailing.

kiamlaluno

Isn't this question too localized? In some countries, some of the reported words are still covered by copyright.

2

Q: What are some products that are now words?

All of the ones I can think of are specific products that have come to represent their kind. This is usually either because it is the first of its kind, as in a Xerox machine (the first office photocopier), or it arises from popularity, as in Sharpie or something like "Google that" (though I'd sa...

usage etymology vocabulary words

Robusto

IDK, I would let it go.

kiamlaluno

12:53 PM

("Looks around to see if IDK is in the room.")

RegDwight

Wha? I'm right here.

kiamlaluno

@RegDwight: I didn't know I should call you so. Shall I say "Sir IDK"? ;-)

Robusto

@kiamlaluno: You need to change your name to something people can type easily. Otherwise no one will feel like talking to you much.

kiamlaluno

@Robusto: You didn't think that could be the idea. ;-)

Come on! It's easy to say "kiam la luno". I don't pretend you say it placing the accent in the correct place. :-)

RegDwight

I can actually type kiamlaluno just fine. Kiamlaluno, kiamlaluno, kiamlaluno.

Now try that with adenosine-5'-triphosphate.

Robusto

1:01 PM

BTW, @RegDwight, I don't think I'll stay ahead of @nohat for long. I'm rep-capped and he accumulates passive rep the way dark woolens accumulate cat hair.

kiamlaluno

By the way, placing the accent in the right place, you would say "kìam la lùno". If you know Italian, it's easier to get it.

RegDwight

He only gets some 30 per day.

His top post is getting him 1.429. Not much.

Robusto

Still, 30 per day is nothing to sneeze at.

RegDwight

Sure, he does lead by passive rep.

You're a close fifth.

But I have only looked at the top 2000 posts. Plan to dive in deeper some time.

kiamlaluno

(I wonder my position in the passive reputation list.)

RegDwight

1:04 PM

22nd right now, but again, I haven't checked all the data available.

Hey yo, stop starring me.

Robusto

By the way, @RegDwight, just so you know ...

Feb 11 at 14:46, by RegDwight

But you misspelled Nevermind.

34

A: "Nevermind" versus "never mind"

Nevermind is an album by Nirvana. "Never mind" means don't bother with something.

RegDwight

Seen that. Old news.

kiamlaluno

I was wondering what those stars meant. Aren't they bookmarks?

RegDwight

Whoa! It's at 34 already!

Robusto

I'm surprised. A throwaway answer has become a veritable cash cow of rep.

Well, I'm not surprised, actually.

kiamlaluno

1:06 PM

I am not surprised.

RegDwight

Yeah, I'm looking for that comment of yours...

Can't remember the wording...

Robusto

Which comment?

kiamlaluno

I was tempted to comment "bonus points for the album picture".

Robusto

People are voting because they like Nirvana, not because of the intrinsic information value of the answer.

RegDwight

22 hours ago, by Robusto

To me it seems votes on questions follow a distinct pattern: lots of votes for what I consider to be rather dumb or banal questions, few votes on really interesting ones.

Found it.

Robusto

1:09 PM

Q. fucking E. fucking D.

RegDwight

1

A: Sometimes upvotes are provocative!

Well, I answered the following question: http://english.stackexchange.com/questions/2721/friday-afternoon-vehicle then someone else gave the same answer after I did, and then he got four six upvotes and accepted and I didn't get even one. Upvotes are strange, but then again this is much the sa...

Robusto

And 19 votes for the question itself. /sigh

RegDwight

And you just wait how much passive rep it will be generating in the months ahead.

We haven't reached the ceiling yet.

kiamlaluno

Considering who wrote that answer, I would not take it as "holy word".

RegDwight

He absolutely does have a point. Otherwise I wouldn't be linking.

The thing is, once a question has at least some velocity, it gets featured in the StackExchange™ SuperCollider MegaDropdown™, which gets it even more velocity within minutes. The rich get richer.

Robusto

1:22 PM

As noted elsewhere, c. the time I dropped out of SO and showed up here ...

14

A: Will high reputation in Stack Overflow help to get a good job?

Gaming the System? Someone should do a study of whether having high rep on SO begets higher rep on SO. That is, once someone reaches critical mass of, say, over 20K rep, do their answers tend to attract more upvotes than other equally valid answers? Anecdotally speaking, I have noticed that low-...

kiamlaluno

He can have a point, but the fact he said that makes the point less relevant.

FX_

Some of the most upvoted questions and answers on SO are jokes, or about jokes, or very broad and argumentative questions (when they do not get closed).

Robusto

^

RegDwight

Yeah, Robusto, that's been brought up on MSO a zillion times... the key here is anecdotally. Everyone and his grandma has that impression, but nobody seems to have hard data.

Which is a pity.

Robusto

Well, you're the data queen.

RegDwight

1:25 PM

That's one of the reasons why I'm playing with the passive rep data.

FX_

Well, if everyone has that impression, that's hard data of some kind, isn't it?

It means people are globally frustrated somehow by this part of the system, which is not good

RegDwight

But it's people who are frustrated that are disproportionately quick to voice their opinions.

It might well be that this is just an illusion propagated by a vocal minority. Including ourselves.

FX_

true; some people would just stop coming back without saying anything, however, maybe that compensates somehow

(by the way, it's the first time I find the chat active at a time I'm logged in, which is cool!)

@kiamlaluno: regarding the "rats" question, do you actually read that etymology from the dictionary itself (I couldn't find it myself), or is that a suggestion you're making?

RegDwight

But I think that Ex-user is spot on anyhow: it all evens out in the end. You take your time to compose a thorough answer, you get 2 upvotes. You post a half-assed joke, you get 20. In the end, you still have 22 upvotes, whether you would prefer them to be the other way round or not.

FX_

Except if you're not good at jokes :)

RegDwight

1:31 PM

Then you can still copy jokes from others.)))

51

A: Is it "bear" or "bare" with me?

“Bear with me,” the standard expression, is a request for forbearance or patience. “Bare with me” would be an invitation to undress. Source

kiamlaluno

@FX_: In my answer I used "is" for a part, and "seems" for the other one. Take your chance.

Robusto

I will leave you with this definition from Ambrose Bierce: cynic, n. A blackguard whose faulty vision sees things as they are, not as they ought to be.

And that, @RegDwight, is me in a nutshell. And why I will not put my name up to be a moderator. ^_^

FX_

@kiamlaluno: thanks, it's all clear then; I wanted to be sure it was not I not being able to use the dictionary!

It seems only fair to counter with: “What is a cynic? A man who knows the price of everything and the value of nothing.” (O. Wilde)

RegDwight

@Robusto: Hence the custom among the Scythians of plucking out a cynic's eyes to improve his vision.

FX_

cheers everyone, don't answer all the nice questions while I'm gone!

RegDwight

1:40 PM

We'll try our best. TTYL.

kiamlaluno

12

Q: How to pronounce 'router'?

Merriam-Webster lists both ˈrüt and ˈrau̇t as possible pronounciations for route but only ˈrau̇-tər for router. Is it really wrong to pronounce router as 'rüter ?

pronunciation grammaticality

Does the pronunciation have anything to do with the grammaticality?

RegDwight

Um, I pass, I think you should be asking @Kosmonaut.

kiamlaluno

2:07 PM

@RegDwight Is there a word for music that can be played reading the notes in the reversed order?

RegDwight

Déjà vu all over again... Are you referring to that crab canon?

kiamlaluno

I don't know. I linked my post to yours. :-)

In the previous posts you are talking of the word cancer; that is all I can see.

RegDwight

I am only talking about crab. Robusto's talking about cancer.

kiamlaluno

Yes, but you said that kankro is the Esperanto word. :-)

RegDwight

Ah. Yes.

Kankro (muziko)

Muzika kankro aŭ kankriro estas la retroludado de notpasaĝo (la spegulado laŭ la vertikalo). Ege ŝatataj estis muzikaj kankroj en la dekdutonisma muziko kiel metodo transformi dekdutonan serion, samkiel en la baroka muziko, ekz. en la kanono (kankrokanono) kaj la fugo. La nomo devenas de la formovmaniero de la kankroj. Se kankro estas samtempe invertado, ĝi nomiĝas kankrinvertado aŭ ankaŭ kankro de la invertado (spegulita kankrokanono). Vd. ankaŭ * Kankrokanono * Tonmetado * Kontrapunkto Ligoj eksteren * [http://www.klangreihenmusik.at/skriptum-48-modi-01kl.php3 48 modusoj de dekdut...

Geez, they actually say "Bildo de la tago" in Esperanto? Funny stuff.

kiamlaluno

2:25 PM

You could also say tagbildo. I don't see "bildo de la tago", in that page.

RegDwight

It's on the home page.

Tagbildo is interesting, for some reason I've always thought that Esperanto was isolating.

kiamlaluno

Oh yes… I see it, now.

You can also form words in that way, like cxefpagxo.

I use the x instead of the right accent, as I don't find it right now. :-)

RegDwight

Here, I will lend you some: ĉefpaĝo.

kiamlaluno

The difference is that cxefo in cxefpagxo is a modifier.

Bildo de la tago reflects what you would say in English; you would not say "day picture".

RegDwight

Actually, it reflects Romanic languages more than Germanic ones.

That's why I find it so funny, you take German words and French/Spanish grammar.

kiamlaluno

2:37 PM

Well, you can say "daily picture", but that could have a slightly different meaning.

The grammar is not exactly Spanish/French.

It's a mix of Germanic, Romanic, and East languages.

I read that some of the way to build a word in Esperanto would be understood from a Japanese.

How the word hospital is created in Esperanto is something far from Romanic languages.

Malsanulejo is mal-san-ul-ej-o.

-ul- is used with an adjective to form a word that refers to a person.

So, sana means healthy, and sanulo means an healthy person.

Malsanulo is a person who is not healthy, and malsanulejo is a place for such people (a.ka., an hospital).

RegDwight

At least it's malsan and not schlechtgesund.

kiamlaluno

What? :-)

RegDwight

Mal + santé rather than schlecht + Gesundheit.

Bad health.

kiamlaluno

I guess san- comes from the Italian. :-)

We say sano for healthy.

RegDwight

Latin, if I may.

FX_

2:46 PM

“Mens sana in corpore sano”

RegDwight

Precisely.

Whence santé as well.

kiamlaluno

Yes, but Esperanto is said to take its vocabulary from Romance languages. :-)

RegDwight

Every second Esperanto word we've discussed so far was of German origin.

Bild and Tag are not Romance.

kiamlaluno

*mainly from Romance languages

RegDwight

Okay, okay, I can live with that.))

kiamlaluno

2:58 PM

Uhmmm… I still don't understand what Gallo-Italic means. I don't see roosters.

RegDwight

Don't forget Gallo-Sicilian!

kiamlaluno

Here is the page for the dialect I speak.

Eastern Lombard language

Eastern Lombard is a group of related languages, spoken in the eastern side of Lombardy, mainly in the provinces of Bergamo, Brescia and Mantua, in the area around Crema and in a part of Trentino. Its main variants are Bergamasque and Brescian. In Italian-speaking contexts, Eastern Lombard is often generically called a "dialect". This is often incorrectly understood as to mean a dialect of Italian, which actually is not the case, it's not a dialect but a language. Eastern Lombard and Italian are different languages and are not mutually intelligible. As per today, Eastern Lombard does...

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English Language & Usage: Multi-Layer…