English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

Tanner Swett

02:15

3

Q: Why do software engineers refer to computers as "machines"

Since entering software engineering, I picked up the habit of saying "machine" when talking about a computer. Most of my colleagues seem to do the same. However, when I use this idiom in everyday conversation, people get a bit confused. Obviously, a computer is a machine. However, most machines ...

I feel like the above question is a general tendency among people who work with a particular type of thing.

When people who work with computers talk about a specific computer, they'll call it "this machine," or perhaps "this device," but rarely "this computer."

Likewise, I know a lot of glider pilots. When a glider pilot talks about a specific glider, they'll probably call it "this ship," but less commonly "this glider."

A person driving an ambulance is likely to refer to the ambulance they're driving as "the truck" rather than "the ambulance."

A restaurant manager will call their restaurant "the store," not "the restaurant."

All of this even though the layperson doesn't usually think of a computer as being a machine, a glider as being a ship, an ambulance as being a truck, or a restaurant as being a store.

So... why do people do that?

Why is it that if you have a hobby or occupation which heavily involves one particular type of object, you'll usually refer to that object using a more general word than its common name?

SmokeDetector

04:47

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Bad pattern in url body, pattern-matching website in body, repeated url at end of long post, blacklisted user (360): How Can You Start an eBook Publishing Business While Still Holding Down a Full Time Job? by Shanu Sweet on english.SE

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

08:33

@Mitch I don't think it goes beyond some ethnic jokes for most people. Fard's mileage might vary.

There's no systematic oppression either, AFAIK. I mean, someone might be racist (ethnicist?) and not ever hire Turks or whatever.

userr2684291

12:40

@TannerSwett Good observations! I think it's partly due to its simply being the term that's commonly used within that field, and the why behind that...who knows, but might perhaps have to do with that law of least information possible or some such? Why refer to a computing machine as a computing machine when everyone knows what sort of machine you're talking about (at least within the field). So, yeah, it's just shorter, from whichever aspect you look, I guess.

userr2684291

12:51

But I know people (native speakers of English) who refer to computers as just computers even though they've been working with them for quite a while. It might just be my impression, but I first heard, and often hear the term machine from C and asm folks, which makes some sense.

Mitch

@Færd OH...ok I get it. Yeah that sounds right, that big established countries are in favor of free-trade because its good for them, but it is not necessarily good for developing countries where protectionism can really help.

@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ Got it. Wait... even Kurds?

Allex Kramer

14:08

Trying to find a particular comment to see what the context was. Someone available to help me search for it in the forum? I tried, but maybe I'm not as good at seek and find on the forums as someone else

Tonepoet

16:34

@Mitch Would Mastodon be an example of what you mean? My understanding is that it is basically an open-source version of Twitter.

Mitch

17:04

@Tonepoet I don't know, I'm just guessing.

Færd

18:04

@Mitch Yeap.

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

@Mitch Yeah, even Kurds. I mean, there is never a talk of that. People don't care much which province you're from, they just might notice it if you speak Persian with an accent. We won't let them have their own country, for example, and I still don't interpret that as ethnic prejudice, regardless of what the western media might think of that.

@AllexKramer Howdy. What do you remember about the comment? Date, approximate date, author, keywords, what?

Færd

18:29

@Mitch Lots of systematic oppression in Iran. Lots. Against all sorts of minorities and marginalized people (of minority religions, ethnic groups, etc).

If @M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ is joke-denying that, then it's not funny. If he's not, I suggest he checks his infinite privileges in this country and then look around to see who does and who doesn't have them.

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

Eh, defensive again.

@Færd I'm a Turk, so, not a minority again? I dunno. I did say you might be aware of different experiences.

Are the Persian Persians the majority? I'm not even sure of that.

@Færd It's true that you don't see, say, Kurds, much (if any) in high-up positions. But is that because of some systematic oppression? Probably not.

Færd

Sorry. I dunno where to begin. I've got things to catch up to. Laterz.

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

@Færd I recall some historical things about slaughtering Christian here about 100 (?) years ago. There's also some systematic discrimination against other religions as lots of key positions require Islam. But that's not an ethnicity. And it's not now.

I mean, the former genocide part. Not the latter.

But I probably would have heard of something if there are was a law against ethnic minorities getting some basic privileges and now.

Granted, I'm not as avid a news follower as you.

Unless you're referring to some systematic slacking off when there are ethnic minorities in need, like, say, Khuzestan's Arabs in recent natural events.

Again, I wouldn't know about that.

For now, I'll stick to my infinitely privileged dinner enjoying my infinitely comfortable chair.

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

19:03

0

Q: Are Nobel laureates are at least 22 times more likely to partake as an amateur actor, dancer, magician or other type of performer

There was an opinion piece in the New York Times Do You Have to Be a Jerk to Be Great? in which David Brooks cites from a book called "Range" by David Epstein: “Compared to other scientists, Nobel laureates are at least 22 times more likely to partake as an amateur actor, dancer, magician o...

psychology

@Mitch are you a good actor?

Mitch

@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ The main story about Kurds and independence in the western news is with respect to Turkey and Iraq, which definitely have a problem with Kurds and treating them like 'others'. So simply by having a large Kurdish population, Iran might be seen similarly (even though there's not as big a problem as in those other two countries. (also, I suppose (if this is relevant) that Kurds are 'closer' to being Persian.)

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

@Mitch The Kurds in Iran have suffered and are suffering a lot. That they have to visit the hospitals here for more serious illnesses, and that they were hit the hardest by the Iran–Iraq war, tells enough. But are they being oppressed? I'm again basing my conclusion on the fact that I haven't heard recent examples as to the contrary.

The hospitals thing is because Tabriz is just a bigger city, and more big shot doctors can be found here. Tehran is even bigger. But I don't think the government dictated that Kermanshah (the biggest Kurd city, I guess) shouldn't be big and urban.

Mitch

just to get what you're saying right, are you saying that Kurds, who tend to live in Kurdistan (Kermanshah) tend to travel far to Tabriz (outside of Kurdistan) for good medical care? Because the medical care in Kurdistan is not as good?

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

Again, there are sometimes some anti-ethnic sentiments sometimes, since I suspect we're not as careful with our mouth as the westerners.

Mitch

@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ 1) David Brooks is a horses patoot. He just makes stuff up to make himself look smart.

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

19:11

@Mitch Yeah I guess. "Sorry, our lab doesn't have the equipment to do this part of your blood test. Go to Tabriz."

Mitch

2) That sentence just doesn't fit. I read the article and 'partake' just doesn't refer to anything there. Out of context it is kind of a euphemism for 'drink alcohol' but that just doesn't fit in the story he's making up.

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

@Mitch Wow, you look like a normal scientist.

QC approved stamp

FYI, we have a famousish "oldie but goodie" movie called Ox.

Mitch

3) I suppose if he means 'partake' as in 'just does for fun' implying 'does something more than physics', then sure. so now if we want to get a nobel prize I have to participate in local dinner theater?

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

But it's about a person.

Mitch

I'm tired enough as it is just trying to wake up in the morning, and now you want me to do more?

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

19:13

@Mitch Nope. Bananas in the shower.

Doing a handstand.

I have no idea how to do a handstand in shower without rising a broken neck

Mitch

@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ Persian?

@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ I know how to do it. And it will definitely involve a hospital stay afterwards.

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

Oh. It's called The Cow actually.

گاو (فیلم)

گاو از فیلم‌های موج نوی سینمای ایران به کارگردانی داریوش مهرجویی و نویسندگی داریوش مهرجویی و غلامحسین ساعدی است که در سال ۱۳۴۸ ساخته شد. علی نصیریان، عزت‌الله انتظامی، جمشید مشایخی و پرویز فنی‌زاده بازیگران اصلی فیلم هستند. گاو جز اولین فیلم‌های ایرانی بود که در غرب و اروپا مورد توجه و تحسین قرار گرفت. گاو جایزهٔ فیپرشی جشنواره فیلم ونیز ۱۹۷۱ را به دست آورد. فیلم گاو بر اساس داستان عزاداران بَیَل اثر غلامحسین ساعدی ساخته شده‌است. گاو نخستین بار در سال ۱۹۷۱ در جشنواره فیلم ونیز، بدون زیرنویس انگلیسی روی پرده رفت و همچنین در جشنواره‌های کن، برلین، مسکو، لندن، لس‌آنجلس و دیگر جشنواره‌ها به نمایش درآمده...

Jesus. How do people differentiate between these things.

Allex Kramer

@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ I want to say it came from John Lawler (not for sure), and in was in reference to clauses and phrases, most specifically the expansion of clauses as a definition (e.g. calling things that were once phrases now clauses). If I remember correctly, it was either him saying that defining prepositions or conjunctions now depends on whether you consider certain noun phrases as clauses or nouns OR it was him talking about gerunds/participles and their function as adverbial or adjectival.

Mitch

@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ Duh. It's so obvious. One is a cow and the other is an ox.

Oh isn't that in reference to surah #4?

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

19:32

@AllexKramer You can't use in-site search since it won't search comments. If you know some keywords of the comment, you can type site:english.stackexchange.com "some keywords" into Google. Fairly high success rate. If it is JL, you can check his comments page. Not recommended if it's an old comment.

Mitch

19:46

@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ So the SE in-site search doesn't allow searching comments, but google does?

Why bother even having software other than google? They just do it better.

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

@Mitch Google scrapes everything

Hey, that's a nice motto.

Mitch

I should get paid for it.

And then they should pay Nike for 'sampling' their motto.

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

I think a site that should ideally emphasize searching before asking not having a search function is too awkward to handle.

Mitch

search is almost always an add on.

to software that is collecting info

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

No ur an add on

Mitch

19:50

@T.Ioca hmmm....

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

Oh no, that's the sign for a pun

Mitch

There are signs for that?

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

@Mitch It's like a Mitch Loading Bar™

Mitch

Is that a candy bar of some kind? Doesn't sound very appetizing.

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

Wait till you try one

Can't be worse than all the new Samsung Galaxies.

Mitch

19:54

Are they that bad? I was considering getting a Huawei just to spite everybody.

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

Ha

Do other people share the anti-Huawei sentiments?

Or is it just Trump?

Mitch

Also to troll the Chinese government with my copious security compromising laundry lists. Literally:5 pairs of socks, two pairs mismatched. Three shirts: no starch, missing cuff buttons. 5 Chiffon scarves: don't ask where that stain is from.

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

They're too expensive, for something that's mostly expensive due to being trendy which will drop out of fashion in 10, 9, 8

Mitch

@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ Look man, I don't listen to the news, I just hear it in the background: blah blah blha Huawei blah blah secret sex slave blah blah roses and lilacs blah blah win a trip to blah blah your mother-in-law blah blah

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

@Mitch Only two pairs? Newb.

Mitch

19:58

@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ wait... samsung or huawei is trendy?

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

Samsung Galaxy T-2000 is trendy

Mitch

@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ No man. You. Buy only socks of one brand, one type, one color. and they still come out mismatched

@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ noted: no one gets them any more because everybody is buying them

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

Still newb. That seems more like a philosophical dilemma.

@Mitch I wish

Jul 14 at 18:02, by Mitch

Dec 4 '17 at 21:05, by Mitch

Sep 2 '16 at 15:26, by Mitch

Aug 1 at 19:27, by Mitch

Jun 27 at 21:28, by Mitch

Dec 17 '15 at 15:36, by Mitch

people are idiots

Mitch

There are more things in this world than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

mostly consisting of mismatched socks

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

Then the new models would have slowed the hell down for a little.

Mitch

20:00

@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ I should quote that

...and, sadly, I have to pack up. CU. L8r. Also Bye fox @T.Ioca

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

\o

Pseudohuman

o/

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

While. For a little while.

RegDwigнt

20:20

> ZackTheWaffleMan has added the discussion "Guys, I think I found the most melancholy chord progression"

Good. Here's hoping you can find a dictionary next.

Melancholy is not an adjective.

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

@RegDwigнt Nah, dictionaries say it can be

It does sound a bit weird

RegDwigнt

21:09

@Cerberus and now for something completely different. musescore.com/user/27897310/scores/5660735

Pssst. It's a secret.

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