English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

to try, attempt
to experience
reyna (singular past indicative reyndi, plural past indicative reyndu, past participle reyndr)
to try (out), prove
to experience

Noun: reyna f (plural reynas)

queen
c. 1250: Alfonso X, Lapidario, f. 1v.
[…] quiſo dios que uinieſſe a manos del noble Rey don alfonſo fijo del muy noble Rey don ferrando ¬ dela reyna donna beatriz […]
[…] God wanted it to come to the hands of the noble king don Alfonso, son of the very noble king don Ferdinand and the queen, lady Beatrice […]
reyna
queen...

Mitch

@Cerberus Dutch wins. Reina is not used in the US

tchrist

4 is a little bit misleading for 3, but English lacks a good distinction in perfect/imperfect senses.

Cerberus

Alas.

Robusto

12:08 AM

So, @Cerberus, question for you: does the dom in kingdom and wisdom (and the tum in German words like das Eigentum) come ultimately from Latin dom or some other branch of the IE tree?

Cerberus

@Robusto I don't know! But I suspect they're unrelated.

tchrist

Quiso Dios means that God willed it and made it so. It's the praeterite sense. Quería Dios is just that he was wanting it, not that he he said "make it so" and all that jazz.

Robusto

@Cerberus Why would you suspect that? The dom in OE suggests an official order(ing) of sorts.

tchrist

No quería ir = I didn't want to go. No quise ir = I refused to go.

Robusto

Quizás.

Mitch

12:10 AM

-dom.... Cognate with German -tum (Old High German tuom).

tchrist

Dom? Isn't that something about the bishop?

Robusto

Short for deo optimo maximo, I should think. ^_^

tchrist

Oh look it's Dom Bishoprix come amongst us!

Cerberus

@Robusto It seems -dom is related to do and doom.

Robusto

That's disappointing.

Cerberus

12:12 AM

My etymological dictionary gives several related words and roots from other Indo-European branches, but it does not mention Latin domus and similar.

So I gather it is unrelated.

@Robusto Hah.

tchrist

It's where the bishop has his sede/seat/see.

Cerberus

His dome.

In Dutch, dom means dumb.

tchrist

Mitch

so "You're wrong" is a flaggable offense?

tchrist

> In sense 1, < Portuguese dom, a title of honour, = Spanish don < Latin dominus master, ruler, chief, owner; see Don n.1, dam n.4, Dan n.1 In sense 2 an abbreviation of Latin dominus.

Mitch

12:16 AM

In the US, Dom means Dominic

tchrist

@Mitch Oh is that what came through in chat? I didn't even look.

Cerberus

It's such a pity the Oxford English Dictionary does not go any farther back than Latin or Greek.

My Dutch dictionary does.

@Mitch Yeah, just click it away!

Mitch

@tchrist Yeah. Usually it's russian profanity

or just russian

which is a moral offense

tchrist

@Cerberus Ok well sure you can have Latin dictionaries but not Greek ones; those ones are lexicons. :)

@Mitch Oh yeah that was that one. I never even think of those.

@Cerberus Remember that you can look backwards here if you ever want to know what all those flashing blue-light specials in chat were all about.

I have a feeling my cultural reference fell upon on the color blind.

"flashing blue-light special" is a Thing from yesteryear.

Robusto

As in "blue-plate special"?

Cerberus

12:25 AM

@tchrist Lexica?

tchrist

@Cerberus Well sure.

Cerberus

@tchrist Oh, I had no idea.

tchrist

blue-light special

Noun: blue-light special (plural blue-light specials)

(US) A discount or bargain....

Robusto

Hmm. I'm only familiar with plate in combo with blue and special.

tchrist

But I imagine that Kmart's blue-light specials hearken back to diners' blue-plate specials. Fewer flashing lights though.

> Kmart, the beleaguered discount unit of Sears Holdings, is bringing back the Bluelight Special, its fabled sales ploy, Reuters reported.
The Bluelight Special debuted in 1965 as flashing blue sirens in the center of Kmart's stores that would go off to direct shoppers to a discount item, as an announcement was blared on a loudspeaker, “attention, Kmart shoppers,” a term that became part of the American lexicon.

The retailer revived the blue sirens in 942 stores last week to kick off 15-minute deals. Kmart will launch a marketing campaign to highlight the move with a TV ad on "Sunday Night…

The original flash mob.

Robusto

12:28 AM

Ah. I don't think I've ever been in a Kmart.

tchrist

@Cerberus We have all these links that you "just have to know" because they aren't in moderator FAQs or anything. It's like the Greatest Hits list. :)

@Robusto I got my hair cut today by this girl from McHenry. Yes, that one. Surprised me.

Robusto

Interesting coincidence.

tchrist

My dad used to work in McHenry at some electronics shop fifty years ago.

And she actually lived in Lake Geneva for a spell with a boyfriend there just a few blocks from where I grew up.

She's happy to live here now. :)

Pretty as Geneva is and all, but still. At least it's not Rockford.

Mitch

burn

tchrist

Went birding with my friend from Los Alamos who was up and through this past weekend. She said she thinks she could never move back to Madison with all the mosquitos. :)

Robusto

12:33 AM

My god, no.

I can't think of moving back to the Frozen North.

tchrist

Then again, she fled camping in Wyoming due to the mosquitos there and we spent the time in Boulder County, both in the wetlands to the east and up in Indian Peaks National Wilderness.

Yeah, it's the winters that kill you, the grey gloom of perpetual gloaming that never brightens up for months on end. For that you can have Fairbanks.

Robusto

Unfairbanks, to be sure.

tchrist

It's still super snowy up in Indian Peaks. Only very first spring flowers like marsh marigolds are out at Long Lake accessed from the parking lot at Brainard Lake.

Mitch

wait...it's still working on spring?

tchrist

They won't even let you drive to the trailhead. You have to park at the picnic area and walk up on in.

@Mitch Pussy willows galore!

And yes.

We had so very much snow up high.

Mitch

12:38 AM

So 'summer' is like two weeks?

tchrist

Snowpack at the start of June stood at 420–750% depending on whether you were close to be or close to Rob respectively. Metric conversion available upon request.

@Mitch Define "summer".

Above timberline certainly summer is just a few weeks, that's for sure.

Cerberus

The surface of Venus (false-colour image reconstructed from radar data).

Robusto

Some of my friends did the Triple Bypass up in Colorado this weekend.

tchrist

@Mitch It's currently 42 degrees at Mt Evans, for example.

Mitch

@Cerberus Seems almost livable

Cerberus

12:41 AM

@Mitch Yes.

Robusto

ridewithgps.com/routes/29621203

Mitch

no mosquitos

Cerberus

Pressure is 90 times that of our planet, temperature around 460 degrees C.

Robusto

It was not snowing or anything, but who would notice if you're riding 120 miles with 10,000 feet of climbing/

tchrist

> Colorado’s above-average snowpack means the season to summit a 14er will be pushed back.

There won’t be significant snowmelt at those elevations until late July or early August, according to the Natural Resource Conservation Service (NRCS). Hikers were able to get up to 14,000 feet without having to deal with much snow by mid-June in previous seasons.

The statewide snowpack totals are 343% of normal as of May 28. Numbers from the U.S. Department of Agriculture show the San Miguel and San Juan Mountains are up to 617% of average.

@Robusto We got hailed on, but then we always do here.

Robusto

12:42 AM

I imagine. Hail is the top frozen precipitation down here.

tchrist

@Cerberus hell hath no fury

Cerberus

I wouldn't say that...

By the way, does anyone read Honor Herrington?

tchrist

@Robusto We get 7 major hailstorms a year down in Boulder. It snows daily way up there.

Robusto

@Cerberus Wait, we're next.

Cerberus

By David Weber, military SF.

@Robusto Not quite!

tchrist

12:44 AM

@Cerberus Not Harington?

Robusto

@Cerberus Can you say "runaway greenhouse effect"?

Cerberus

@tchrist That would be Dutch.

@Robusto That is not expected for us.

Robusto

We hope.

Who knows what will happen if Trump keeps going the way he is.

tchrist

Have had a bobcat in the neighborhood because of the new fawns.

Neighbor got a video of it walking down my street fifty feet away in broad daylight.

Mitch

How dare they

tchrist

12:46 AM

And the week before there was a lion maybe three hundred feet away at one in the afternoon.

Right in the neighbor's front lawn.

Mitch

they're probably scared too

Robusto

I hear the rule of thumb is, if you see a mountain lion it's not stalking you.

tchrist

The bobcat is from too many baby bunnies. But he was stalking the fawns. The doe (not really a hind, just deer not elk) was barking at the cat.

Oh, and the damned bear was here again two days ago. And tomorrow is garbage day so doubtless he'll be around tonight.

Robusto

I didn't know deer could bark.

Mitch

arf

tchrist

12:48 AM

@Robusto no shit!

Robusto

The world turned on its head.

tchrist

It sounds a bit like a coughing goat.

Deer says, "Meh!" - Mother Deer and Fawns - Deer in the Yard

►

They'll protect their fawns vocally.

Incredible Whitetail Buck Vocalizations - The Management Advantage

►

@Robusto Our deer here are of course blacktails not whitetails like back home. Mule deer, 2x size of whitetails.

Cerberus

Cute.

Robusto

@tchrist Sounds rather like a backyard dad yelling for a beer.

tchrist

The neighbor who saw and heard the doe said it was like she was spitting at the bobcat with her voice.

Very weird.

Robusto

12:54 AM

@tchrist Them suckers kin jump, though. In the Black Hills I was hiking one time when we inadvertently cornered a deer in a thicket. We thought it would freak out because it was "trapped" ... but it simply jumped over the bushes and vanished.

tchrist

I now understand the ferocious battle that Lorin got into a month ago that the whole neighborhood heard and which left the rent and tattered entrails and pieces of a baby bunny scattered among the upper rafters of my raspberries.

He had brought me back a baby bunny about this time of evening and the bobcat tried to take it from him inside our fence.

@Robusto They really can.

Robusto

Tell Lorin not to fuck with bobcats. It will not end well.

We have enough vegetation in back so that our cats won't likely become prey for birds of.

tchrist

@Robusto No kidding. He had beshat himself, the very last straw.

@Robusto I did chase off a redtail once who was cruising Lorin back when he was a little smaller.

Robusto

They're fast and silent. The prey never sees the danger until they're up in the air.

tchrist

Birds know when there's a bird-eater above them.

Robusto

12:59 AM

Shadow is too big, probably, to be carried off, but a hide full of talons won't suit him well.

tchrist

Cats don't really think to notice or vice versa.

Robusto

Bosco hunts lizards. Good at it, too.

tchrist

Yes, only an eagle could carry off a cat.

But any bird of prey much north of a kestrel could kill them.

Robusto

True.

tchrist

Great Horned Owls and Red-tailed Hawks have been known to kill cats.

Robusto

1:00 AM

Wild animals have the edge over house-bred domestics.

A coyote (or two) can kill a Doberman.

tchrist

Well, the birds know their killers.

Robusto

I was cycling by the Rio Grande and saw about three or four coyotes trying to creep up on a crane preening itself in the shallows. When they got close enough it laughed at their ploy and flew away.

tchrist

I was at a falconry demo out in the country at a renfaire once, and you should have seen the ravens run climbing to get above the falcon at all times, and the doves and jays dive for the shrubbery.

Robusto

Huh, interesting.

tchrist

When the falcon outclimbed them, they dove.

It can't strike from below.

Robusto

1:04 AM

Yes. It has to stoop.

tchrist

But from above it's like a gravity bomb.

Robusto

She stoops to conquer.

tchrist

We have both peregrines and prairie falcons here, the former at the mountain edges, the latter out at the plains.

And the typical European hawk-hawks.

Read: accipters

> gyrfalcon

< Old French gerfaucon, also gerfauc (modern French gerfaut) = Provençal girfalc-s, Spanish gerifalte, Portuguese gerifalte, Italian girfalco, girifalco, medieval Latin gero-, giro-, gire-, gyrofalco, Middle High German gir-, gervalke (modern German gier-, geier-, gerfalke), Dutch giervalk, Old Norse geirfálki.
A compound of the word which appears in English as falcon n.; the origin of the first element is disputed, but the prevailing view both among Germanic and Romanic philologists now is that, while the recorded forms in the Germanic languages are adopted < French, the ultim…

Weird that it's jeer not gheer.

But it's because it came via French, and was gyro-related. Looks like some kind of Norse word though.

The gyr part I meant.

Falcon is Latin.

Oh hey there: geirfálki

That one you can trust to be pronounced at it's spelled. :)

Robusto

Yeah, I recognized that right off.

tchrist

> the origin of the first element is disputed, but the prevailing view both among Germanic and Romanic philologists now is that, while the recorded forms in the Germanic languages are adopted < French, the ultimate source is the Old High German gîr vulture (Middle High German gîr, modern German geier), < the root *gῑr in Old High German giri, gîri greedy.

Reminds me of the French word for wolverine.

Gulo gulo is the Latin binomial. It's a glotón in Spanish. I'm sure you can figure it out. :)

Robusto

1:17 AM

Yep

tchrist

French is just glutton. Kaybeckers have some Indian word.

carcajou is I dunno what.

carcajou

Noun: carcajou (plural carcajous)

Wolverine, a solitary, fierce member of the weasel family.
carcajou m (plural carcajous)
wolverine
Synonym: glouton
(Canada, colloquial) a person who is fierce or otherwise displays the characters of a wolverine...

English my butt!

> Borrowed from French carcajou, probably from the same Algonquian source as (certainly related to) kinkajou.

Never heard it in English that way, just in Québec-French.

Kinkajou != Kinkapoo

Looks like falcon is another word whose spelling we owe to the Latin restorationists.

> ME faukun, ME faucoun, faukon, faukoun, ME facoun, ME–16 faucon(e, ME–15 facon, ME fawken

Fawken would make just too much sense, you know?

But no: "In the 15th cent. the spelling was refashioned after Latin."

Robusto

The Latin bias strikes again.

tchrist

> Middle English faucon (faukun), < Old French faucon, falcun, < late Latin falcōn-em, falco, commonly believed to be < falc-, falx sickle, the name being due to the resemblance of the hooked talons to a reaping-hook. Compare Italian falcone, Spanish halcon.

It was so you could hope people could read each other's languages more readily if they all retained the Latin spellings. :)

Give a man a samoun and he'll have a nice supper. Give one to a scholar and he'll throw a salmon back in your face.

> Etymology: < Anglo-Norman samoun, saumoun, salmun (Old French and modern French saumon) < Latin salmōn-em, salmo (Pliny); the spelling with l is from the Latin form.
Compare Provençal salmo, Spanish salmon, Portuguese salmão, Italian salmone, sermone. The Latin word is probably a derivative of the root of salīre to leap.

This brings entirely new smells to Italian sermons.

Robusto

^_^

tchrist

1:50 AM

@Robusto amazon.com/How-Travel-Salmon-Other-Essays/dp/0099428636

The original is of course in Italian.

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

6:58 AM

Oh, it seems I missed the weekly meeting.

Why did you hold it at 3 a.m. q_q

Hang on, the better question is how did @Færd manage to be up then. I thought I was the one with poor sleeping habits.

@Færd "They had [for more than a century before] been regarded as . . . "

@Cerberus I think I've heard it every once in a while here and there, so if it's an error, it's a common one

@Cerberus You can't work under pressure?

@Mitch To be fair, orcs were racist.

Færd

8:44 AM

@Cerberus Why would it work as a conjunction but not as an adverb, when both befores are adverbials and the latter is semantically just a short version of the former?

Robusto's example can be reword it into something like "We didn't bring plums to orchards in America when we came in 1900; there were plums in these orchards for more than a century before." and it'd still be as natural as it was.

There was also my example: "I'd been awake for 20 hours straight before I asked this question here.", which could be reworded into "I asked this question at midnight, and I had been awake for 20 hours before [that].".

@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ I was trying to break a personal record.

Cerberus

1:58 PM

@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ I'll leave any Venereal work to you.

Cerberus

2:13 PM

@Færd It is true that both are adverbial adjuncts; but I still don't feel comfortable with either example.

> I had been awake for 20 hours before

I would read this as follows: I had been awake for 20 hours on another occasion, at some previous point in time; but that wouldn't make sense semantically.

SmokeDetector

2:48 PM

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Misleading link (17): "Lighter" vs. "brighter" ✏️ by MJXS on english.SE

Færd

@Cerberus It's true that with lack of context, it will very likely be equivocal and unclear.

Mitch

3:14 PM

colors... I'm sensing a lot of colors

CowperKettle

4:08 PM

cyka

Noun: cyka

(US, vulgar, offensive) bitch; contemptible person, usually but not necessarily female.

I wonder how they pronounce it

As written or as Russian

Robusto

4:19 PM

@CowperKettle Since they give a variant spelling as suka, I'd venture to say that it's pronounced like the Russian.

I've never heard that, btw, it might be US/Russian underworld slang.

Only term I've ever heard that's at all related is сукин сын.

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

6:33 PM

Your math implies that everyone who can get pregnant, will get pregnant, every single year, and not have an abortion. And yes, it also implies that every male is fertile. — F1Krazy 13 hours ago

lol

tchrist

7:02 PM

0

A: The gerund and its complementation

SUMMARY: Some -ing words are still verbs, while others have been denatured into deverbal nouns and deverbal adjectives. Although visually indistinguishable letter by letter, these ex-verbs are easily distinguished grammatically via syntactic context, especially when the originals were transiti...

Sometimes I think we should just have a dedicated ing.stackoverexchange.com site given how many times and in how many ways people get confused about these.

RegDwigнt

8:58 PM

@tchrist I was going to comment that ing is probably reserved for Ingush, but looking it up they went with inh, the silly buggers. So yeah. Ing is up for grabs.

> Has anybody written a pretty piano solo arrangement of Michael Buble's "Forever Now"? I love this song - and all of the arrangements I found to purchase on various websites are mostly accompaniment pieces rather then piano solo arrangements

I just gave the song a listen and I have no idea what this person wants. It's a piece for piano solo with voice. So just play the piano part, and add the melody on top. And why would you need to purchase anything, it's like six chords in total that a ten-year-old with no training can identify in three minutes through mere trial and error.

Michael Bublé - Forever Now [Official Audio]

►

What is there to arrange. It's arranged as is.

Earlier today I finished arranging a piece. The original was for orchestra with a piano and a Hammond organ. My arrangement was for three winds, a trumpet, a string quintet, a piano and an optional tambourine. Now that I can understand some people might call an arrangement. Even though I barely changed a note from the original.

But arranging a piano piece for the piano? Dafuq does that even mean. And what exactly is "pretty" anyway.

RegDwigнt

11:14 PM

I notice @Rob is in our site nuking questions. Quite deservedly so, but I didn't even know he was still doing that. Punching the life in the fist with his face, or what was the turn of phrase.

Colleagues, there is little point in trying to guess it. The OP does not know what the word was. And so by extension neither do we. We cannot guess correctly. We can only guess. Could've been division. Could've been derivation. Could've been diffamation. Could've been aviation. Could've been DVDAtion. I may have guessed correctly by now, but only by complete accident, and nobody on this page, and nobody in the world entire, knows that I have, save for that one person that actually uttered the word. — RegDwigнt ♦ 4 mins ago

It's like an SWR taken to the next level, and then taken to the next level still.

Level 1: find the correct word for the meaning.
Level 2: find the correct word, but you don't know its meaning.
Level 3: find the correct word, but you don't know its meaning, and neither do I.

Meanwhile on MuseScore someone posted a concerto for viola and orchestra. But not to the viola group, and not to the orchestra group. But to the flute group.

Which is just as well, because I listened to it and I couldn't make out the viola at all. But the flutes were clearly audible.

I think I'm done scratching my head in disbelief for today. Morgen ist auch noch ein Tag.

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English Language & Usage: Multi-Layer…