English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

1:11 AM

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Pattern-matching website in answer (80): Is it ever correct to use "on" after "continue"? by user1949723 on english.SE

SmokeDetector

1:43 AM

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Pattern-matching website in answer (80): Is it ever correct to use "on" after "continue"? by user1949723 on english.SE

Mitch

3:55 AM

@Færd Thanks for the suggestion. It got a lot of laughs. You know why.

Færd

8:05 AM

@Mitch Hahaha sure. I'm curious how many people you got to try that on in such a short interval.

SmokeDetector

9:08 AM

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Pattern-matching website in answer (80): Is it ever correct to use "on" after "continue"? by user1949723 on english.SE

Matt E. Эллен

9:47 AM

@SmokeDetector nah, looks legit.

Mitch

11:33 AM

@Færd It was at a Nowruz party. It got a good laugh in that it was slightly risqué, and I could only half pronounce it so people had to really work to figure out what I was saying.

But to totally drain any humor out of it, linguistically speaking, isn't 'dombe' kind of weird? I don't think I've ever heard the 'mb' combination in Farsi ever.

Matt E. Эллен

12:23 PM

why isn't the opposite of "disappointed" "reappointed"?

SmokeDetector

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Blacklisted website in body, potentially bad keyword in body, potentially bad keyword in title, potentially bad keyword in username (102): Legends Keto - Best Calorie-Burning Supplement by Legends Keto on english.SE

Mitch

1:31 PM

@MattE.Эллен why isn't the opposite of "disgruntled" "gruntled"?

Matt E. Эллен

@Mitch there's a conspiracy. they want us to think the language is irregular so they can turn it against us

Mitch

3:13 PM

@MattE.Эллен You might infer that I prefer refer to defer.

fer crissakes

Matt E. Эллен

3:24 PM

chris cakes?

Mitch

3:47 PM

I thought he only came in wafers.

Cerberus

4:22 PM

He wavers and quakes.

MathCubes

I can't find the answer to this but I am curouis

Why are often banknotes, called "bills"?

It's doesn't make sense to me.

I don't see the connection

Mitch

5:46 PM

@Cerberus Jello'd be thy name.

@MattE.Эллен So has it been long enough to get a consensus on the 'subjunctive' undeleting?

And what consensus do you see?

@MathCubes Does the chain of semantic drift at etymonline make sense?

MathCubes

Let me take a look at it

Yes

@Mitch Any idea why is "Bill" at least in NA is more popular than "note"?

Why is "note" more official?

Matt E. Эллен

@Mitch I figured I'd wait until monday in case people had weekend opinions, but at the moment I'm happy to undelete it

Mitch

6:01 PM

@MattE.Эллен Monday's fine, but maybe make a comment on my OP to that effect.

@MathCubes Is it? I rarely use 'note' for any kind of paper money. I'm sure at banks , 'note' might rise in frequency compared to mine but Im not sure enough to overtake 'bill'

Matt E. Эллен

will do

MathCubes

?'

British people say note

And money European

s

Mitch

@MathCubes OK. I'm AmE. I don't know whether that's true or not, but you'd have to be clever about a NGrams search or coca search to compare

MathCubes

Same

I am just wondering why

Mitch

@MathCubes I don't understand your elision here.

MathCubes

6:03 PM

I can't find any info on it online

Unless I am not looking at it right

@Mitch Also on them, they say "note"

Mitch

@MathCubes "Also on them"? I don't understand.

MathCubes

The United States Dollars (bills/notes)

Mitch

Europeans don't tend to speak English, so how is 'money' a word that 'Europeans' use?

MathCubes

@Mitch the ones that speak English and yes, many do.

Mitch

As a foreign language?

MathCubes

6:06 PM

As an a second language that they use almost on a daily basis

Mitch

What about inflation? And the exchange rate?

MathCubes

I don't know. I know when I am talking to them. They say like "5 Euro Note" Or when I show them a 2 dollar bill, the are stock by it and says something like "is that a two dollar American note?".

Mitch

@MathCubes I don't think you can call 'European English as a foreign language' a coherent thing, but if it is, it's an attempt to match British or American English (sorry ANZ/CAN/SIN/NIG!)

MathCubes

It's mostly British English

Mitch

@MathCubes You said first that they tend to say 'money'.

MathCubes

6:09 PM

Where?

Mitch

So what are you saying they say? 'note'? Sure, I suppose Europeans tend to follow BrE more likely.

Færd

BrE note ~ AmE bill

MathCubes

Yeah

Mitch

6 mins ago, by MathCubes

And money European

MathCubes

But @F

Oops

Mitch

6:10 PM

@MattE.Эллен Do you tend to say note or bill for paper money?

MathCubes

Europeans says "note", where as anyone form North America will say "bill"

Færd

@Mitch Domb is a funny version (and maybe some dialect) of what you'd call dom (tail) in standard Farsi.

And oh yes, lost of 'mb's in Farsi.

MathCubes

But officially on North American paper money, it has on them "note" and no mention of "bill"

Færd

What Europeans say is immaterial.

MathCubes

Why?

Færd

6:13 PM

Because there's no "Standard European English". Unless you mean BrE or a sub-dialect thereof.

MathCubes

But its still the language

There are so many dialects without a standard

A standard dialect is usually the one that is used the most central region of such country.

Færd

Standards are set by those who speak the language natively.

Others tend/try to follow one of the dialects.

Or mix and match, as I do.

MathCubes

Standard Arabic, for example, is mostly the Egyptian dialect.
Standard Swedish is the most central dialect in Sweden. Someone on the border can understand themselves better than their central dialect.

Færd

I don't know about Swedish, but no, you're wrong about Standard Arabic.

MathCubes

@Færd Not really, its their government, and they usually pick the most central dialect cause its the most understandable.

@Færd How am I wrong with Arabic? I know some native Arabic speakers...

Færd

6:19 PM

What does that have to do with Europeans speaking English as a second language?

I fail to follow. Sorry.

MathCubes

@Færd It doesn't matter if their is no standard for it

Kaspar

Hello @MattE.Эллен I changed my name to the German version, LOL.

MathCubes

As most dialects or regions don't.

Back to my question,

Do anyone know why Americans says "bill" instead of "note" when most of the world says "note" and officially speaking they are a "note"?

Or have a idea why?

Mitch

@MathCubes Why do you park in the driveway but drive on the parkway?

Why do people say 'literally' for literally 'not-literally'?

MathCubes

@Mitc

Mitch

6:27 PM

@Færd Farsi lost 'mb' or has lots of 'mb'

MathCubes

@Mitch I want some historically background.

@Mitch A) I don't say that, B) I don't use that

Mitch

@MathCubes You can click on the down arrow to the left to reply to a particular message (so we know what you're referring to)

MathCubes

"drive" means to move, so a driveway is a private street on a farm or a large property that connects your buildings.

Parkway, is any highway that goes though any forested area.

You have a right to use your private street no matter how short to park on it

Mitch

@MathCubes What variety of English do you speak natively?

MathCubes

@Mitch Mixed. Grow up and live in the States. So... But I do read and use many phases that aren't in American English.

And also, what the heck is American English? As there are so many dialects... I think no one actually speaks the standard in nonformal settings.

Mitch

6:32 PM

@MathCubes What part of the US may I ask?

MathCubes

The city have their own dialect, and in the city there are sub dialects for different cultures. African American English is way different than the rest and it's different than the city and rural.

The north have their own dialect, and the south has their own dialect.

@Mitch I know this isn't going to be much help as there are so many dialects here, but St. Louis.

Mitch

The difference in dialects between Maine and Atlanta is less than the difference between High Holborn and Tottenham Court Rd

(that's funny because they intersect)

MathCubes

Heck, one of my former High school teacher that just retired used to speak Missouri France to her family.

Færd

@Mitch Typo. Lots. Eg qolombe (~chunk), shambe (Saturday), dombe (fat), etc.

Mitch

@MathCubes That is true, the main dialect difference within the US is GenAmE and AAE

MathCubes

6:36 PM

Sadly, Missouri France will be dead soon. No High school wanted to teach it. My former teacher got in trouble for helping her students in non standardize France.

Thus, confusing them

Mitch

@Færd Oh wow. so written 'shanbe' is usually converted to 'shambe' (which is natural of course)

MathCubes

But I don't know France to began with to compare them.

@Mitch Heck when I go to my state capital to take a test, the people there and I have difficultly understanding each other. It's merely like a 125 miles/200 km away.

Færd

@Mitch No, I transliterated the pronunciation. It's written shanbe alright.

But nobody pronounces it like that.

mb rolls off the tongue much more easily, as a Farsi speaker at least.

Mitch

@Færd yeah, 'nb' isn't natural, but everything is so literal as a beginner

Færd

Uh-huh

MathCubes

6:40 PM

A lot of people in the rural settings says 'Missourah' for 'Missouri'

But officially its "Missouri"

Mitch

@MathCubes You call the French that is spoken in Missouri 'Missouri France'?

MathCubes

Yes

Mitch

That is a different language.

MathCubes

Its a dialect of France like Quebec France.

Mitch

I've never heard of that

Where is it spoken? Ozarks?

MathCubes

6:41 PM

Around St. Louis

Mitch

Are they culturally/ethnically French from colonial times?

MathCubes

No, It just stuck in the family.

My high school teacher, who spoke it, said it was France.

Mitch

I'm not sure what that means.

Just one family?

MathCubes

So... But I know she disagree alot with the official France that the France teacher taught.

Mitch

But when did that family pick up French? From their ancestors living in Missouri who back nin colonial times were immigrants from France?

@MathCubes France or French?

MathCubes

6:44 PM

I didn't even realize that there is a different spelling

The lanague

French, I guess

@Mitch Thanks for correcting me on that

Mitch

@MathCubes Yeah, if you refer to the language as 'France' it's really confusing.

MathCubes

I thought it was the same spelling.

Mitch

Also European English refers to the English that English colonizers from England speak in their territories around Europe, not what The Germans, French, Swedes, etc speak to each other at international conferences.

@MathCubes 'France' is pronounced by most English speakers as /fræns/ and 'French' as /frentʃ/

MathCubes

@Mitch Also, alot of Younger Europeans, just view them shelf as "European" not pe se "German" "Spanish", etc...

Mitch

or in words, the vowels are different, and the last sound is an alveolar fricative in France, and a palatal affricate in French

Matt E. Эллен

6:48 PM

@Mitch note

MathCubes

I wounder is "bill" related from 'fræns'

LOL

And the German base is 'note'

Matt E. Эллен

There are 0 occurrences of "five pound bill" in Google ngrams, but many "five pound note"

Mitch

@MathCubes There's a big mix of that. some people think of themselves as European, some of their country, some of a sub area (eg Catalans). I'm sure there's a poll somewhere. And I bet the Brits are really problematic nowadays.

@MattE.Эллен Note what?

MathCubes

True

Matt E. Эллен

@Kaspar nice. Mixing it up!

Mitch

6:50 PM

haha. If you had said bill I would have done something for that too.

Matt E. Эллен

Lol

MathCubes

That would actually make sense, on how much more influence French has on the English spoken in North America.

Maybe 'note' is from German, and 'bill' is from French

Thoughts?

Mitch

What did etymonline say? I tend to trust that

Matt E. Эллен

Oxford Dictionaries says note is from old French note, which is from Latin nota, to make note

Mitch

Actually, the influence of Colonial French on Pre-AmE and AmE... I'm having a hard time imagining it is more than continental French has had on post 1800 BrE

MathCubes

6:56 PM

Humm

Matt E. Эллен

Basically, when money was new, a 5 pound note was a note that the bank had 5lb of your gold

Mitch

Courgette, Aubergine are ...

two girls in the Pirates of Penzance?

@MattE.Эллен Silver

Matt E. Эллен

Vegetables! You colonial buffoon!

Mitch