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10:47 AM
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Manually reported answer: "Pending approval" or "Approval pending" by Chandramohan on english.SE
 
11:12 AM
> lam eating to approval my amount
do they think "approval" is the same as "improve"?
 
11:51 AM
@Tonepoet Hmm. Thanks.
Yes, that's what's missing from #1: the agent (people). Maybe the reason why people don't find it jarring in "He must be punished by excluding him from the team." is that there's an implicit agent: we, or his teammates. It's more specific than generic people, anyway.
And I think @tchrist 's sentence, "I can most easily be reached in real time by pinging me in the ELU chatroom.", is alright too: the agent is you, which is clearly understood from the context.
And why should you dislike them? They have their use. As for Tom's 'about me' section, most sentences there have I as their subject, which acceptably excuses the inversion of You can reach me to I can be reached so that the text is homogeneous and all sentences are of uniform construction.
@MattE.Эллен They need some gentle reproval.
 
 
2 hours later…
1:52 PM
@Robusto I wonder what arguments the Academy has against la présidente when it's a woman.
I don't see a problem with such titles.
And madame le ministre looks ugly.
 
@Cerberus It's in the text: "La présidente, say some traditionalists going further, is the wife of the president."
 
But at least the insanity from English has not really affected the French.
@Robusto Yes, but it says that goes even further than the Academy's reasoning.
 
We should not be too surprised to find a bedrock of tradition regarding the French language.
 
Indeed, and I applaud them for it.
Within reason.
 
Reason is not the term I'd use to describe traditionalism.
 
1:55 PM
I would!
 
I know!
 
But I never liked the whole la Maréchale thing.
 
Reason will abandon traditionalism at a moment's notice, breaking your traditionalist heart.
 
Why should a woman's title depend on that of her husband?
@Robusto Not at all!
It is only reasonable to enjoy the traditions of one's culture.
Although, of course, they should be adjusted if they have serious disadvantages.
 
What about people who embrace the new? Are they then unreasonable?
 
1:57 PM
It depends.
 
but people get so angry when I try and colonise them
 
Some one cannot reason with...
@MattE.Эллен Have you tried nuclear bombs?
 
@MattE.Эллен Maybe you should try to semicolonise them instead.
 
Or that.
It is the middle classes who hate tradition.
The rest of the population usually values traditions more.
And there are plenty of traditions that all classes value highly.
 
1:59 PM
I don't hate it, I just think that people who hold on to tradition for tradition's sake are deliberately trying to hold back progress for progress' sake
 
@Cerberus Now now, let's not calumnize the petite-bourgeouisie!
 
It depends on the case, I would say.
 
@Cerberus It's also reasonable to discard traditions if there are problems with them.
 
Slavery used to be a tradition. Good riddance, I say.
 
Especially with regard to aesthetic traditions, it hard to say what's progress and what is mere change.
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Certainly.
2 mins ago, by Cerberus
Although, of course, they should be adjusted if they have serious disadvantages.
@Robusto But it's fun!
 
2:00 PM
@Cerberus The French language has serious disadvantages when it comes to gender.
 
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 I will probably disagree with you, as you know...
 
@Cerberus Well the article outlined it, basically
 
I say to anti-traditionalists, pick your battles. Attack traditions that have serious, real problems.
 
:36913048 Hmm, I always hear it pronounced "petty" ...
 
It's the same problems English has with male-default language, only it's worse.
 
2:02 PM
Or you risk alienating the lower classes.
 
I'm past my 3 free article limit... oh, private browsing, of course
 
Populism has been partly caused by the destruction of traditions that those people hold dear.
 
@Cerberus I think part of the problem is when people are simply ignorant of the way reality is, and they blindly cling to failing traditions and lash out at people who try to improve them.
 
@MattE.Эллен I use Self-Destructing Cookies (Firefox), which destroys a cookie once the tab has closed (or the session, or never—your choice).
 
It's very telling that the most xenophobic people tend to be the ones with the least contact with immigrants/foreigners.
 
2:04 PM
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 At any rate, it makes large numbers of people feel alienated and angry.
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 That's actually interesting.
Sometimes, yes; at other times, no.
 
@Cerberus Those people should become better informed.
 
@Cerberus Just because Trump is a faux-populist doesn't mean there is anything inherently wrong with populism, but there is with demagoguery.
 
For example, our right-wing populist party has lots of support in the south, where few foreigners dwell. But also in the worse neighbourhoods of Amsterdam, where there are plenty of foreigners.
 
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Hmmm. Symptom or cause?
 
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Or the progressives should pick their battles.
@Robusto How would you distinguish between those two terms?
 
2:06 PM
@Robusto It's my understanding that the best way to eliminate xenophobia/racism is for people to get more involved with different people. Familiarity tends to reduce conflict.
 
ah, yes, the populism/demagoguery merger.
 
@Cerberus Populism is actually doing things for the people. Demagoguery adds hypocrisy to the mix.
 
@Robusto I've never heard a satisfactory explanation. It's probably complicated.
 
@Cerberus So, progressives should stop fighting racism and xenophobia because ignorant people are ignorant?
 
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Yes, to some degree; but at other times the result is the opposite: people feel threatened by how their neighbourhoods are taken over, and by the young foreigners hanging around squares and stuff.
 
2:07 PM
@Cerberus But that's because they're still not mixing.
 
@Robusto Hmm that's not the definition I'm used to. The former I would probably call socialism.
 
They see "young foreigners" and they avoid them. They don't engage with those kids' parents, they don't expand their social circles, etc.
 
@Cerberus well, perhaps there is overlap
 
But kids who grow up in schools with diverse populations don't think anything of it when they see people who don't look like them.
 
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 They should pick issues that are substantial, and that almost everyone agrees on, e.g. how it's much harder to get a job if you have a name that sounds like the Near East.
 
2:09 PM
@Cerberus "Populism is a political doctrine that proposes that the common people are exploited by a privileged elite, and which seeks to resolve this." That is not to say it can't be used cynically and hypocritically, and as a weapon in the elite's arsenal, as Trump does.
 
@Cerberus What about how much harder it is to get a job if you have a name that sounds female?
 
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 That's not really true: there is lots of contact, at least in the streets, shops, etc. But they find the young foreigners intimidating.
 
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Why do you think I change mine from Robusta?
 
@MattE.Эллен Quite possibly.
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Yes, I think that often works to some degree.
 
@Cerberus That's not sufficient mixing.
 
2:11 PM
@Robusto Hmm that's not entirely how I would use it, but I suppose it doesn't matter.
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Yes, or if you have a female body.
 
@Cerberus I think how you would describe it aims at the corrupted version, not the Platonic ideal.
 
That is a real issue, and almost everybody agrees that it's bad.
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 But it is more mixing than in most places, and yet people are more xenophobic in those neighbourhoods.
 
@Cerberus Part of the problem why it's harder to find work if you're female is the "male default" bias that is built into society - and that's evident in how the French language treats gender.
 
So my point is, sometimes more contact results in less xenophobia; but at other times, it's the other way around.
 
BTW, apropos of gender:
Apr 26 '14 at 18:50, by Robusto
Why would the term for vagina be masculine? I mean, if ever there was an argument against linguistic gender, that would be it.
 
2:13 PM
@Robusto Yes, absolutely. For me it is also "I am the people, I know what the people want".
 
@Robusto Well, ever hear of the "little man in a boat"? Why is it a man?
 
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 I don't agree with that.
 
@Cerberus I know. You're wrong though.
But I won't try to convince you further, not today anyway.
 
@Robusto Touché, I think.
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 No, you're wonrg!!!!oneone
 
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Because that's where most men want to be at any given time?
 
2:15 PM
@Robusto Heh. But probably that's not why.
 
But that reminds me of the male chauvinist joke: "A vagina is like a boat. It is better to have the use of one than to have one."
 
At any rate, even if I were wrong, it would be better to tackle more serious, substantial, uncontroversial issues first. Otherwise you risk alienating many people, amongst which the political centre / the average person.
 
lol. alienate the xenophobes :D
 
And then you will not be taken seriously, and your mission will be marginalised and fail.
@MattE.Эллен No, the centre.
 
@Robusto It's la vagina but el coño just as it is el penis but la polla. Medical terms have the right genders; vulgar ones flip.
 
2:17 PM
Apr 26 '14 at 18:49, by tchrist
@Robusto Well, just le con not la conne, right?
From the same discussion.
 
I cannot answer for the bunnies.
 
@Cerberus 52% of the people who voted, voted brexit. they did so because they're xenophobic for the most part. if we get a tory majority in June that will also be the reason.
 
In any case, language genders are an artifact of a more primitive language.
 
@MattE.Эллен That is possible.
 
Primitive how?
 
2:19 PM
More complicated, I think. That's just a feeling, not even a conjecture.
Vestigial appendages like noun gender and elaborate case systems tend to fall away over the years?
 
not within a language, but perhaps when you're conquered (by the romans, then saxons and the vikings, then the normans) perhaps you're forced to simplify things?
 
Complicated is nuanced, the opposite of primitive.
 
I don't think gender is a nuance.
It is entirely unrelated to meaning, at least in the way it is used.
 
It can be useful.
In English, you have to use it to refer to any thing.
 
You don't think his and her is nuance? What about him and her then?
 
2:25 PM
In French, you can be more precise, using il or elle.
 
@Cerberus you can use one sometimes
 
Yes.
But the distinction itself between masculine and feminine nouns adds precision.
 
do people ever say "get me all the female ones"?
 
In modern Dutch, we usually use he for things now, because we have forgotten our genders.
@MattE.Эллен In French, si!
 
2:27 PM
Or just get me them and you know they mean the forks, not the plates.
 
gender is a leaky metaphor
 
Gender is nuance. Case is nuance. Degree is nuance. Tense is nuance.
 
@MattE.Эллен Don't start about vaginae and penes again.
 
@Cerberus if those are leaky, see a doctor
 
Peninsulas.
 
2:29 PM
@tchrist However, I do think Rob is right that things like genders tend to disappear to some degree with time, in our language family.
And you could say older is primitive (though not in a bad way).
@MattE.Эллен Check.
 
@tchrist I'm talking about noun gender. It's when you try to give it meaning that it becomes problematic.
 
The Saxons and the Norse had conflicting inflectional paradigms for the same base nouns, and so to talk to each other, theae both had to be discarded.
 
I rest my case.
For the language to evolve, certain appurtenances had to be discarded.
 
Yes, creoles tend to lose inflexion.
 
who're you calling a creole!?
 
2:32 PM
But are they less primitive?
@MattE.Эллен It wasn't about your skin colour!!
Nothing against green.
 
@Robusto It's just noun classes linguistically. Many many many world languages have various and sundry noun classes.
 
no I meant our language :D
 
That, too.
 
@tchrist I agree. And many don't.
 
@MattE.Эллен whoa whoa whoa. Aren't the normans sort of latter day vikings?
 
2:35 PM
@Mitch I don't think so. The Normans don't speak Norse.
 
They had been civilised.
Before they attacked England.
 
assimilated
 
Yes.
 
they were more discriminate in their raping and pillaging
 
Yoyo criollo avec un soupçon étrangère.
 
2:36 PM
@Cerberus That is a matter of opinion. Also a matter of degree.
 
The Norsemen didn't speak Norse for very long.
all those croissants and crepes and meringue
 
@Robusto Naturally. But they weren't like the Vikings any more.
 
Danelaw
 
The four Norsemen of the crepocalypse
 
mmm
 
2:38 PM
@Mitch 150 years or so before the Conquest. The Norsemen began to settle into Normandy ~900.
 
@MattE.Эллен My requested last meal before execution?
All you can eat endless buffet
"Nope, not done yet"
 
Franks. Wieners. Beans. Pastries.
 
@Mitch careful not to choke on the chicken wings
 
self affirmation
 
2:39 PM
@MattE.Эллен That's why you should eat Buffalo wings instead. /nod
 
I am in control of my destigrarhphghtp...
 
:D
@Robusto a hod's as good as a sink to a blind norse
 
@MattE.Эллен Cue Eric Idle ... hod hod sink sink
 
Cod?
 
scrod
 
2:43 PM
;)
 
an ugly name
 
@Mitch so long as someone is. it sounds dangerous
 
englishrecs.stackexchange.com
 
as dangerous as dropping a chain saw into a hay baling machine
not particularly interesting if neither are on.
 
is?
 
2:46 PM
I pronounced it as 'neether', so it's 'are'
 
I pronounce it as "niteer", so it's "weave"
 
well, lah dee dah
I bet you wouldn't let butter melt in your mouth
I don't know what that means, but I mean it to sting.
 
Number is nuance.
 
@Mitch I didn't understand it, iteer, but it hurt like hell
 
@Mitch Oh, come on, surely that isn't dangerous?
 
2:52 PM
You can play the guitar, just like a ringing a bell?
 
You just jump onto the machine and pull the chainsaw out
 
You'd certainly have to wash you hands afterwards if you're not careful.
 
Beaten By Lava
 
Can lava wield a stick?
 
@MattE.Эллен No puede limpiar su Lava.
And now I have to get ready for class. Laterz.
 
3:05 PM
Adios!
 
Hi, quick meta-question: I posted a single-word-request. Am I allowed to edit my question to discuss the various answers and why I accepted one in particular?
 
3:32 PM
@Robusto I, uh. Why are we celebrating Hitler's birthday?
More to the point, why are we celebrating it with foreign plastic and dope? Should be German wurst and German volkswagen, mate.
 
3:47 PM
@ValentinAslanyan I think putting the discussion in the question would be a distraction from the question. It could be helpful to future people with the same question if you want to leave a comment under the answers
 
 
2 hours later…
5:20 PM
 
5:51 PM
@MetaEd Oh geeze, you're fully plated in diamond armor too! That's nonrenewable, is it not? =P
 
@Tonepoet No, just a tie and a flameproof helmet.
 
@MetaEd Oh, so those aren't your bulking biceps! It's hard to tell when everything is so... flat. =P Still, I'm not sure if that makes it better or worse. I've never seen another diamond tie before. Surely it must be rare.
 
It's standard issue.
 
6:25 PM
@MetaEd Harvard Business Review recommends the diamond tie, along with power brunch and a 20/20 vision statement
 
6:37 PM
@Mitch @MetaEd Don't forget the birthday suit to go with the tie! >_>
 
 
1 hour later…
8:37 PM
@SmokeDetector that's weird. that seems like a reasonable answer. but there is a random link in the middle of it
 
@MattE.Эллен The answer was (auto-)copied from the answer above it.
 
9:13 PM
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Offensive answer detected: Is a vendor also a maintenance worker? by Mark Melo on english.SE
 
9:40 PM
@Cerberus I see! devious
 
10:20 PM
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Mostly dots in answer: Difference Between "Plot" and "Storyline" by donuts on english.SE
 

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