English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

Mitch

12:45 AM

@KitZ.Fox I'm using it at this moment too

To be frank I don't see much difference other than it's a smaller font

@Jasper it's still Wednesday here

Woohoo! The 'reply to' now works on mobile. Yay!

Kit Z. Fox

@Mitch You can edit too.

And you don't have to scroll to send, you can just arrow, like texting.

user174558

I just had a cold shower.

user174558

It seems nobody in chat is affected by the US winter storm?

Kit Z. Fox

1:01 AM

There's a storm?

Looks like we might get some tomorrow.

user174558

50 people have died.

user174558

January 2016 United States blizzard

In late January 2016, a winter storm prompted multiple states across the Mid-Atlantic United States to declare a state of emergency. Evolving from a shortwave trough, the system consolidated into a defined low-pressure area on January 21 over Texas. Regarding it as a "potentially historic blizzard", meteorologists indicated the storm could produce more than 2 ft (61 cm) of snow across a wide swath of the Mid-Atlantic region and could "paralyze the eastern third of the nation". Winter weather expert Paul Kocin described the blizzard as, "a top-10 snowstorm". On January 20–22, the governors of eleven...

Kit Z. Fox

Well, thank goodness there's no such thing as climate change, so we don't have to worry about this sort of thing happening more frequently unless we ignore the warnings and continue allowing terrorists to have SNAP benefits.

user174558

I don't read news sites, but I visit Wikipedia every day.

Mitch

What's a snap benefit? I'm jealous already but I want to make sure I'm not jealous of the wrong thing @KitZ.Fox

Kit Z. Fox

1:10 AM

Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program, formerly known as foodstamps.

Mitch

@Jasper for news I just listen to the radio for a few moments in the morning. So if something happens during the day I have no idea

Kit Z. Fox

Our senator just proposed a No Benefits for Terrorists bill, ironically just days after he voted down the No Guns for Terrorists bill.

Mitch

@KitZ.Fox I'm not jealous then. I prefer my food metered

Kit Z. Fox

Because terrorists are less dangerous when they are weak from hunger.

Mitch

No doubt

Kit Z. Fox

1:12 AM

And who can think about committing crimes when their children are wailing because their stomachs are empty?

Mitch

As they say, hate on a full stomach

Kit Z. Fox

And if we took their guns away, the deadbeats wouldn't be able to hunt for food.

It all makes perfect sense when you think about it.

We don't want to keep terrorists from having weapons or concealed carry. We want to prevent them from sucking on the teat of the American taxpayer.

sighs

</sarcasm>

Mitch

I blame the british

Kit Z. Fox

They do have nice tea though.

Mitch

It doesn't grow there very well

Kit Z. Fox

1:21 AM

That's true. Now I'm hungry.

Mitch

I'm watching a food show, so it's almost the same thing

@Jasper what did you have for breakfast?

Kit Z. Fox

That's an excellent question.

I often wonder what people have for breakfast.

Mitch

@Jasper also, the blizzard was last weekend, but only disrupted Washington DC to New York City, which is a smallish area of the US. Kit and I are outside of that area.

We'll probably get our own special blizzards soon enough

@KitZ.Fox I have the exact same breakfast always.

Except when I dont

Kit Z. Fox

Coffee?

Mitch

I used to eat cereal and milk everyday until I was 30

Then somehow I thought that was not the best diet so I changed to toast and cheese

For the past week

rimshot

Kit Z. Fox

1:29 AM

haha

Mitch

no one will get that I'm really not that young !!

I like my coffee like I like my alcohol

Kit Z. Fox

I usually skip breakfast, except for coffee.

In the morning?

Mitch

I cannot skip breakfast.

Or any other meal really

Kit Z. Fox

Blood sugar issues?

Or you just like it?

Mitch

But that's against the Geneva convention for me to not have breakfast

Kit Z. Fox

1:31 AM

I've had more breakfast in the last few years than I've had in the whole rest of my life.

Mitch

It's just morally wrong to skip

Kit Z. Fox

We moved to within walking distance of a really good diner.

So I have breakfast there two or three times a week.

Breakfast at home one weekend morning usually.

I like omelets, so I should probably learn to make them. I hear they are really easy.

Mitch

Mmm omelettes

Yeah they're easy

Like scrambled eggs you just don't mix them up as much (or really at all)

Also diners...mmm

Kit Z. Fox

puts nose on @Mitch's elbow

Mitch

That tickles

pats on head. Discreetly moves elbow away

Kit Z. Fox

1:45 AM

I thought you might drop some food if I did that.

Mitch

Yes that would be what you'd expect me to do and normally I would have but unfortunately for you the last bite had gone in.

Sorry but I wasn't even hungry

Kit Z. Fox

:/

licks chops, whines a little

Mitch

Haha I'm kidding. Here have a bacon-wrapped scallop

Lots of cholesterol....mmmm

Kit Z. Fox

om nom nom

Mitch

Do you do tricks?

I can't think of a good trick. Here have another

We babysat a .. terrier? ... Smallish wiry haired dog? And we bought a hoopla hoop and taught him to jump through to get a dog treat

We got him to jump pretty high.

Kit Z. Fox

1:53 AM

Cool.

Tricks are for hookers.

Mitch

You know, now he's got a skill

Kit Z. Fox

haha

Mitch

Hahaha

Kit Z. Fox

Yes. Pet value. That's why kids can volunteer to work with shelter animals, to help socialize and train them, I hear.

Mitch

Dogs will do anything

Kit Z. Fox

1:55 AM

My boys want a dog. Really, really bad.

Mitch

To be frank (I wouldn't do it otherwise but it bears repeating) dogs are like really stupid kids that can't poop by themselves

They're like an extra person in the house that can't open doors or read.

Kit Z. Fox

Or go on trips easily.

Mitch

Oh right. Or in cars easily

That's why babysitting

And in the summer they put their wet noses on your shins

shivers

Lots of work for the parents, walking the dog everyday in blizzards

Kit Z. Fox

Yeah. I like dogs.

But cats are more my speed. You can forget about them for long stretches of time.

Mitch

I know. Dogs are fun.

But note that they can have very different personalities. Some can be low maintenance, some very needy.

Cats are great too. But I hate litter boxes

Kit Z. Fox

2:15 AM

Speaking of, I probably ought to um.

Go to bed.

See you tomorrow!

Mitch

L8r

tchrist

3:42 AM

@Mitch 63 today but a foot of snow this weekend.

barlop

3:56 AM

has anybody ever heard the expression "getting a visit" i.e. please wear pants underneath your shorts, otherwise we'll be getting a visit especially when you squat

user174558

5:38 AM

@Mitch I had some noodles in the fridge.

user174558

I think I won't go to the math room anymore. It's boring.

Flaw

11:26 AM

Hi, is there a way to examine the sentence "one plus two is three" in terms of subject, object and verb?

Matt E. Эллен

11:41 AM

@Flaw subject = "one plus two", verb = "is", object = "three"

Flaw

how about if we analyse "one plus two"

I never realised that "plus" isn't a verb

Matt E. Эллен

that would be considered a fragment

it is a noun phrase

Flaw

I probably shouldn't trust google and get a proper dictionary

Matt E. Эллен

"plus two" is a prepositional phrase

Flaw

It's telling me plus is a preposition, and times is a verb

Matt E. Эллен

11:44 AM

yeah... that's what I'm seeing

Flaw

how do I know if it's "(one plus) two", or "one (plus two)"

Matt E. Эллен

@Flaw that's because it's not considering "two times four" it's considering "you times the two by the four"

because prepositions usually come first

Flaw

this is important to me because I'm trying to analyse the Japanese fragment 1足す2. In English we typically have the verb come before the object (SVO). But in Japanese the verb comes after (SOV), and 足す is a verb. Except in this particular fragment, that seems like it doesn't behave like a verb.

Matt E. Эллен

hey! :p

Flaw

oh wait

my bad

I clicked edit instead of reply to

Matt E. Эллен

11:50 AM

no worries :D

Flaw

I guess I forgot about the pre in preposition

Thanks for the help! I'm going to try to form an analogous argument for the Japanese case

Matt E. Эллен

no problem!

hello @Jasper

user174558

@MattE.Эллен Hi, I am Superman.

Flaw

perhaps the answer would be to understand it in terms of postpositions

Hi Superman

Matt E. Эллен

@Jasper I couldn't tell with those glasses on

@Flaw ah! could be. I know nothing of Japanese, I'm afraid

user174558

11:55 AM

I know sayonara = goodbye.

user174558

According to some sources, Japanese is one of the hardest languages to learn for an English speaker.

user174558

The subtitle of this room is much better than before. The frequent changes were too silly.

user174558

Talking about formal grammar, maybe there is no need to understand it. It's just a theoretical construction. One could always come up with alternative analyses!

user174558

I have decided what English grammar book to study. The Cambridge Grammar of the English Language is too big, so I will read the condensed version, A Student's Introduction to English Grammar.

Matt E. Эллен

@Flaw as OED has it a noun in e.g. "4 times 5", if that helps, at all

user174558

12:02 PM

OED > Shorter OED > ODE > Concise OED > OALD > Compact OED

user174558

ODE = oxforddictionaries.com

user174558

OALD = oxfordlearnersdictionaries.com

Matt E. Эллен

@Jasper I've decided to learn watch making

user174558

@MattE.Эллен Good thinking! When are you getting married? LOL

Mitch

1:00 PM

@MattE.Эллен digital or mechanical?

@tchrist a foot is extreme (or is it for you?) but was that from a different storm system than the one that was in the world news (about shutting down the east coast)?

SmokeDetector

1:32 PM

[ SmokeDetector ] Link at end of answer: What is an action (in one word) that makes you say "goodbye"? by Leni Tombari on english.stackexchange.com

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

2:28 PM

ELU's perfect today.

The guys in the bio chat are amazed at the high quality of the questions.

Matt E. Эллен

3:52 PM

@Mitch mechanical

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

Cool

Kit Z. Fox

@MattE.Эллен That is very sexy.

Delta Escher

Just wear a grandfather clock on your wrist.

Matt E. Эллен

@KitZ.Fox I'm sure it will attract the right sort of woman (i.e. my girlfriend :D)

Kit Z. Fox

Excellent.

Mitch

4:02 PM

@MattE.Эллен are you just desultorily considering it or have you made some initial steps? Do you have any idea about your elemental timing? Weights? quartz? cesium?

Matt E. Эллен

Basically I needed a hobby that isn't programming because programming is my job and trying to put the joy back into it is too hard

2

Mitch

@DeltaEscher that's called a grandson clock.

Delta Escher

No

I mean a whole one

Matt E. Эллен

@Mitch I've bought two books I haven't read yet. both introductory texts. one or repair one on making

Delta Escher

Just duct tape it to your wrist

Mitch

4:03 PM

@MattE.Эллен nice.

Matt E. Эллен

@DeltaEscher OMG you're so insensitive. My grandfather was a grandfather clock

Mitch

When the apocalypse comes, and we need to schedule meetings by hand (shudder) those will be welcome skills.

Also farming.

@MattE.Эллен politically chronologically incorrect. literally

Matt E. Эллен

I like this interpretation of times

4

A: Is "times" really a plural noun?

The phrase four times five means five, four times i.e. five, five, five, five. In this context, I think the meaning of it is similar to the meaning of times in "Once, twice, three times a lady". It's basically stating four occurrences of five, which, when totaled, equal twenty. In the arit...

four times as a noun adjunct in "four times five"

Mitch

I wonder how much could be put in a wrist device that would be comparable to a smartwatch. Like, could one fit a mini barometer in there? Positions of the planets should be (relatively) easy. as lotech as possible.

Kit Z. Fox

a four-times five.

Matt E. Эллен

4:09 PM

@KitZ.Fox lol yes!

Kit Z. Fox

mind = blown.

Mitch

weird

Matt E. Эллен

twenty is a four-times five

Mitch

other langs do it differently. I like the preposition idea

Matt E. Эллен

yes. preposition is the most likely

Delta Escher

4:10 PM

Multiplication is called times because you pretty much add the same number each time, until you reach the end of the multiplication (let's say n)

Mitch

not thinking about it at all, it just translates immediately to a formula, so it's not ... grammatical (?) at all.

20 divided by 6 is more obvious.

(and the analogs of add and multiply is the same)

Matt E. Эллен

twenty over six is also more obvious

Delta Escher

I want there to be a tribe of people somewhere who all have nine fingers

And count in base-9

Matt E. Эллен

also 20 out of 6

Mitch

@DeltaEscher You monster!

Delta Escher

4:12 PM

Imagine the first sentient computer.

012345678

Counting in base 2.

stubs for hands

Counting in base-0.5

the lower bases can count to a hundred a lot more quickly, making hide and seek more difficult for the hiders

Mitch

4:13 PM

one, ten, eleven, a hundred here I come!

Delta Escher

1, 2, 11, 12, 21, 22, 31, 32...

Mitch

Golden ratio base

Golden ratio base is a non-integer positional numeral system that uses the golden ratio (the irrational number (1+√5)/2 ≈ 1.61803399 symbolized by the Greek letter φ) as its base. It is sometimes referred to as base-φ, golden mean base, phi-base, or, colloquially, phinary. Any non-negative real number can be represented as a base-φ numeral using only the digits 0 and 1, and avoiding the digit sequence "11" – this is called a standard form. A base-φ numeral that includes the digit sequence "11" can always be rewritten in standard form, using the algebraic properties of the base φ — most notably...

Delta Escher

1.61803399...

3.3603498...

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

@Mitch Is phinary pronounced like binary?

Mitch

That's how I would pronounce it. But I also consider 'data' a mass noun, so draw your own conclusions.

Matt E. Эллен

4:18 PM

/finəri/

Mitch

shocked!

Delta Escher

What is fancy writing of symbol letters?

I forget the term

Matt E. Эллен

well, that's (modern) Greek. φ is pronounced /fi/

Mitch

@DeltaEscher 'callligraphy'?

Delta Escher

Thanks

Mitch

4:21 PM

de nada

Delta Escher

I thought it begin with script- for a sec.

IPA?

What?

Indian Pale Ale

Intrinsic Pacific Admiral

Mitch

4:23 PM

Indian Pale Ale? International Phonetic Alphabet? Iatrogenic Prophylactic Accounting

What's 'you're welcome' in Irish? Some long string of fifty letters pronounced in one syllable of mostly air?

Delta Escher

Oh

The IPA of script-

scrip(sch)

Matt E. Эллен

Φ_Φ

Mitch

I saw that

how rude

Matt E. Эллен

Δ   Δ
|θ θ|
| Δ |
| λ |

Γάτα

@Mitch there's no evidence of anything!

Mitch

4:45 PM

@MattE.Эллен exactly what someone would say if they're trying to hide something.

But that was exactly something someone would say to someone who is trying to hide something but that something has nothing to do with whatever is being hidden. Or something.

Matt E. Эллен

@Mitch that's exactly what someone would say if they're trying to expose something.

Mitch

5:34 PM

so it has come to this

Kit Z. Fox

You. Me. This moment.

Delta Escher

Oh you guys.

Referencing outdated XKCDs

This is probably one of my recent favorites.

Mitch

You want is to reference -future- xkcd's? Fine. scribble scribble ... tappity tappity tap ok compiling

Delta Escher

6:25 PM

Reference alternate dimension XKCDs

MετάEd

7:57 PM

@DeltaEscher Everything I say is a quotation from XKCD in some dimension, according to the many-worlds interpretation.

MετάEd

8:26 PM

And in infinitely many dimensions, I am Randall Munroe. And of course in infinitely many of those I don't draw XKCD.

Damkerng T.

I'd say that this is not a very good ELL question, because a) this is very basic (and it's perhaps one of the first few things most grammar books would tell you about English), and even though a very basic question is not necessarily off-topic, b) it's recommend that learners should add more details (what you think should be the answers of your exercises based on your coursebook, and such). For more details, see Details, Please. — Damkerng T. 1 min ago

I didn't vote to close it because, iirc, a migrated question will be in a weird state if it gets closed.

user174558

Does infinity exist? That is a philosophical question. In mathematics, it certainly does.

Damkerng T.

@Jasper If you think it exists, it must exist, philosophically. :-)

user174558

@DamkerngT. It seems that MARS is always pinging the other Jasper in the other room.

Damkerng T.

:D

user174558

8:45 PM

It is quite hard to leave a room. Even after clicking leave, one is still technically in the room.

guest

9:20 PM

The ghost of departed quantities.

If by "technically" you mean through the use of technology, then yes.

But realistically, you are not "in" the room.

terdon

11:01 PM

8

Q: Chat notification is repeated for every edit, drives me bonkers

The chat notification, especially the *BONK*, is repeated when a message is edited. Repeatedly. This can get really annoying. I propose the BONK is only repeated after the editing time limit. That way, even if multiple edits are made, only a single *BONK* will be emitted.

user174558

@terdon I tell you the truth, I have no idea why people get so upset by pings. If they are in a chat room, they should be happy to get pings. If not, just leave the room or use silent mode.

terdon

That's about multiple pings caused by edits.

user174558

@terdon Reading such posts confirms my worst fears, that many people in this world are easily irritated by the smallest things, and that World War 3 is on its way.

terdon

Well, it is annoying to get multiple pings in the space of a minute or so just because someone is fixing a typo.

user174558

It annoys me that it annoys others, in some sense.

terdon

11:05 PM

Such is life.

user174558

When I was a clerk in the army, it annoyed me that they turned on the radio in the office for some music.

user174558

I told them I could not concentrate with the music on, and they told me they could not work without it.

user174558

I forgot how the matter was resolved in the end.

user174558

But it is silly working in an office with a bunch of eighteen year olds.

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English Language & Usage: Multi-Layer…