English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

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5:27 PM

I have a sentence with the following basic structure:

_B's sculptures—green ones; blue ones; red ones—are all wonderful._

Anyone object to using the semicolons there?

The original was something like B's sculptures, green ones, blue ones, red ones, are all wonderful. But the actual sentence is about a paragraph long. I feel that the em-dash and the ; make it much easier to parse. Is anyone likely to object to having the semicolons separating list items that way?

Specifically, I was given this behemoth:

> B's sculptures, embellished ceramic copies of the porcelain parts employed by Greece’s electricity supply company, a totemic structure where these forms are modified and reformulated, manipulated motifs that derive from the tradition of local wood carving, ornamental shapes and patterns combined with objects that originate in the sphere of industry and mass production, all operate as autonomous works while establishing a firm foothold in different territories.

Which I made into:

> B’s sculptures—embellished ceramic copies of the porcelain parts employed by Greece’s electricity supply company; a totemic structure where these forms are modified and reformulated; manipulated motifs that derive from the tradition of local wood carving; ornamental shapes and patterns combined with objects that originate in the sphere of industry and mass production—all operate as autonomous works while establishing a firm foothold in different territories.

Rigor

I think commas would be traditionally more appropriate.

terdon

@Rigor Thing is that there're too many of 'em. Don't you find the second one easier to read?

And yes, I know that both are overly pompous but that I can't change unfortunately.

Rigor

I wouldn't "object" to your version.

But, to be honest, I prefer the commas :-)

terdon

I just feel that it makes it clearer that we're referring to a list of different objects.

@Rigor Hmm. OK, thanks. I am looking for opinion, not fact :)

bukashka101

Кто говорит по русски?

Rigor

5:41 PM

Perhaps, I just have a semicolon phobia.

terdon

And I think you're right. The commas are better.

@bukashka101 I don't, sorry.

bukashka101

And why I don`t know English..)

terdon

Come back another time, there is usually at least one person who speaks Russian here.

bukashka101

No, I need read English message, because I must learn English... :)

Just in case I opend translater.

terdon

@bukashka101 You might want to visit English Language Learners then, their chat room is (I think) a good place for learners.

Only if you want to, of course, I'm not saying you are not welcome here :)

bukashka101

5:48 PM

@terdon Hah, I can`t understand you grammar. I build sentences differently! :D

terdon

@bukashka101 Sorry :( I said: the English Language Learners chat room is good for people learning English.

And: you are welcome here.

bukashka101

Now i writing application. Its dictionary, in which on can write words. Its good for learing.

@terdon You very good writem but I badly know English. :(

@terdon How old are you and where are you from?

terdon

35, from Greece.

bukashka101

Hah), I`m 14, from Ukrain, but want to move in Russia :).

I learn android-developments, to buy a laptop. But my knowledge so small and I must to more learing.

terdon

That's normal, you're 14 :)

SmokeDetector

5:54 PM

[ SmokeDetector ] Offensive answer detected: Is it common to use "mule" to refer to stupidity? by skrile on english.stackexchange.com

bukashka101

Somebady there?)

It`s a pity...

terdon

@bukashka101 try here instead:

ELL's Cabin

This is the former main chat room for English Language Learner...

bukashka101

@terdon ok, I try. Thanks).

2 hours later…

SmokeDetector

7:58 PM

[ SmokeDetector ] All-caps title: SUBJECT AND VERB AGREEMENT by allie on english.stackexchange.com

tchrist

8:18 PM

@MattE.Эллен I’m thinking that "ten percent of X" works just like "a lot of X" in that it's acting as a premodifier of X and therefore verb agreement still depends only on the number of X. The premodifier would therefore be a red herring.

A: A battery of tests is/are

TL;DR: Both were and was are used when battery of tests is their subject, including in scholarly publications as shown below. Sometimes the choice of number depends on the intended meaning. There may be a relatively recent trend of were becoming a more common choice, but both are frequent. You...

Matt E. Эллен

@tchrist yes, I agree. I was trying to frame it the way the question was asked, i.e. 10% is/are

the bigger question is: should that question be sent to ELL?

tchrist

Odd we don't have a question on this.

Q: Is percent singular or plural?

I’m writing a dissertation on network security. I’m unsure which of the following to use: ...89.9%, which is 57 million users. ...89.9%, which are 57 million users. Technically it should be are because it refers to a plural amount of people, but it doesn’t sound right to me considering that ...

grammatical-number

Matt E. Эллен

oh! good find!

tchrist

Q: Staff and percent. Which one of these two statements is correct?

Which one of these two statements is correct? 60% of staff work or 60% of staff works

grammatical-number

There aren't really good answers there that the asker is apt to be able to readily apply.

I think my battery answer does a better job than any on those others, but one does have to read through it.

> One percent of our users find this difficult.

> One percent of our users is enough to consider the program a success.

Gonna be hard to explain that one.

Probably the second is best thought of as having a phantom gerund.

Matt E. Эллен

it's probably some semantic muddying because of the one

tchrist

8:27 PM

> One user in a hundred finds this difficult.

But I think "one percent of our users" still has "users" as the subject.

But "[Reaching] One percent of our users is our goal."

The grouping-units thing.

Matt E. Эллен

hmmm

tchrist

If you don't have an "of X" after the percent, it can still go either way depending how one is thinking of it.

At least, for me.

I'm not sure this question would be well-served on ELL, but I haven't checked there yet.

I may also be making it more complicated than it need be, or than will help this user.

Q: Percent with do or does?

Which one is correct? 1) How many students, in our University, does 10 percent comprise? 2) How many students, in our University, do 10 percent comprise? Is this one correct or not? I am not sure. 3) How many students, in our University, comprise 10 percent?

grammar

Man, they have no tag groomers there.

There are times I wish the grammar tag were blacklisted.

Other times, I’m unconscious.

Matt E. Эллен

yeah

it's a catch all

tchrist

It doesn't tell you anything, actually.

Matt E. Эллен

if we were rigorous about pruning it, it could, but as it stands it's useless

tchrist

8:37 PM

We can imagine that pattern will continue.

Matt E. Эллен

aye

tchrist

Can't really just burninate it forever without fixing the infinitely many that have only that one tag.

I dunno how much a blacklisted tag hammers the server. It has to have some effect.

There's probably a SEDE query for how many questions have only the grammar tag one could whip up without all too much trouble. This sort of thing is done often enough.

I imagine it would be too much to seriously contemplate tackling.

And even if we zapped grammar in a way that didn't pop those questions to the front page, we couldn't edit their tags selectively one by one for the orphans without doing so, since they'd all be different.

SmokeDetector

[ SmokeDetector ] Offensive answer detected: Is it common to use "mule" to refer to stupidity? by skrile on english.stackexchange.com

tchrist

Dang it, I forgot to squelch Smokey on that one. Wonder why it returned.

Matt E. Эллен

@tchrist yeah, there are over 5000 grammar question

tchrist

8:45 PM

How many with nothing but that?

Matt E. Эллен

that would require an SEDE query, but probably hundreds

tchrist