English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

tchrist

12:04 PM

@Robusto It would be kind of you to edit that for its typo. It obviously needs a tilde.

Robusto

It needs Tilde Swinton.

tchrist

Til de end, dude, always til de end.

I see apples and oranges have been confuting people again.

skullpatrol

🐣💀🐣

RegDwigнt

No, not people. Only one orc.

Matt Эллен

People are fruity vegetables

skullpatrol

12:09 PM

😄👍

Andrew Leach

I'm not a vegetable. I'm an induhvidual.

tchrist

@RegDwigнt Strange rhyme scheme you have there, minstrel.

RegDwigнt

Good enough for orcs confusing things.

So French fries are about to become UNESCO World Heritage.

Whodathunk.

Move over, Kremlin.

Matt Эллен

I woodnathunkit

RegDwigнt

I wouldathunk them was way too specific.

Previous world heritages included French cuisine.

Come to think of it, French fries are not French cuisine?

Matt Эллен

12:14 PM

French Stewart, perhaps

tchrist

@RegDwigнt Well, the left half does admittedly have two classic rhymes as rigor demands. But the right has a ponderable three rhymes, and there is no rhyme-link across the caesura between the two halves. Also, you seem to be a beat off twice over, as we have gone from a duple to a triple meter: 2+2 is more traditional, while 3+3 is . . . different.

RegDwigнt

Oh look a puppy.

tchrist

@RegDwigнt There are frogs in this chat?

skullpatrol

🐸

tchrist

It is being very hard to be keeping up in this chatthing.

skullpatrol

12:15 PM

🐸🐸

RegDwigнt

I think the UNESCO are just trolls at this point.

IIRC German bread is World Heritage, too. So basically anything a German puts in an oven, that's Heritage.

Though that's still quite specific. Anything a French puts on a plate is stronger trolling.

skullpatrol

💀💀💀

tchrist

@RegDwigнt Is that retroactive?

RegDwigнt

What do you think a troll would say?

tchrist

Something Grimm.

Maybe even Nazzi.

Single White Ratfink my butt:

0

Q: What part of speech is "there", as in "...there could be"

Question is in the title. Example: "There could be a chance." Thank you!

single-word-requests

Matt Эллен

12:21 PM

Minaret and Archaeological Remains of Jam was not what I was expecting

RegDwigнt

People literally can't ask a half-assed one-liner. Sometimes I despair.

tchrist

Why you say that? Had you complaint?

RegDwigнt

The kicker being, they wouldn't even need to try and form a sentence if they just entered a single word in a dictionary search box.

They make extra work for themselves, and then fail at it.

Sad all around.

tchrist

My spidey senses detect a disturbance in the Force. A strange attractor has entered the fray.

RegDwigнt

It's just a bald Swede.

Happens.

GnomeSlice

12:25 PM

Today's Listening | Electro / Dubstep (Mixsets Day 6)

Johan Larsson

How do you find new stuff every day?

tchrist

We could definitely use a strange attractor around here to focus the strange in one place, yclept honey-pot.

0

Q: Name for second mail accounts used only for unimportant websites to avoid being spammed

As the title suggests, what is the name or the best way of referring to the second mail accounts many users on the internet open only for unimportant websites in order to avoid being spammed. Disposable mail addresses are another thing, and spam mail accounts is too generic and would conflict wi...

single-word-requests

GnomeSlice

@JohanLarsson I have a lot of older stuff to pick from if I don't have anything newly released.

RegDwigнt

@tchrist I suggest Susan or August.

GnomeSlice

This one is from 2012

tchrist

12:27 PM

@RegDwigнt Why you know passwd?

Matt Эллен

@RegDwigнt I have seen ones simply called "pleasedonotspam"

Jasper Loy

OMG, there is an and-and tag.

RegDwigнt

@MattЭллен I have seen ones simply called "pleasedospam". With same results.

Matt Эллен

:D

tchrist

@JasperLoy That’s a synonym for the pidgin-english tag.

And an antonym to and-or.

RegDwigнt

12:29 PM

We also need a that-that, and a to-to, and a tutu, too.

tchrist

I don’t think those three compose a valid synset.

Matt Эллен

archbishop-desmond

RegDwigнt

Then we also need valid-synset.

skullpatrol

Lol

tchrist

@MattЭллен Rather cocky of you this mornin’, m’lord.

RegDwigнt

12:30 PM

Have you pray'd to-night, Archbishop Desmond?

Jasper Loy

@GnomeSlice Nice photo on your website, you look hot.

GnomeSlice

@JasperLoy ?

skullpatrol

M'lord is allowed to be cocky on occasion

Mitch

@Cerberus We'll be able to create all our future conversations just from that one word!

tchrist

I think Desmond must be the past of Desmoines.

Matt Эллен

12:32 PM

lol

GnomeSlice

@JasperLoy That's because I am hot.

Jasper Loy

@GnomeSlice Yes, that is what I mean.

@Waffle'sCrazyPeanut is always very quiet.

I guessed correctly that you would remove it.

skullpatrol

I can't be so mean to my pal :-)

But, think about it please.

Jasper Loy

OK, but there is really no harm in pinging.

skullpatrol

I know :)

Just a suggestion.

Jasper Loy

12:44 PM

I have learnt not to be so fearful of everything. Now I often have less fear than people I had more fear than in the past.

skullpatrol

Live & learn.

Jasper Loy

Sometimes I purposely do something I am scared of, and as I do it, I become more courageous.

Andrew Leach

One for the Dutch speakers amongst us.

0

Q: How to ask if someone could add an example which improves the explaining of something?

Aim: to ask someone to add an example, which improves the explaining of something In Dutch one could say: Zou u een voorbeeld kunnen toevoegen om het antwoord te kunnen onderbouwen? which means "Could you add an example to ... the answer?" Should one use underpin, substantiate or something else...

translation

tchrist

@I @am @so @tired @of @people @mentioning @other @people’s @ephemeral @comments @in @their @answers, @especially @with @all @the @damned @at @signs @and @an @obvious @lack @of @context.

Andrew Leach

Ooh. I got pinged.

Matt Эллен

12:46 PM

especially since you can't @ttack someone in an answer or question

skullpatrol

@Jasper Loy courage to face your fears is very important in life, in my opinion.

tchrist

@AndrewLeach That was not a happy accident.

Jasper Loy

@skullpatrol Yes. I will be much happier today if I always had courage, but often I don't.

skullpatrol

You work on that.

tchrist

1

A: Using "and" twice for four items

I agree with @Kris that it is gramatically correct and unambiguous, but doesn't read very well. How's about using a comma and the word both in the right place? This book treats differential and integral calculus, both single- and multivariable. You could even omit both without losing mean...

But that is just one out of many I seem to see daily.

@AndrewLeach Obviously the tag is wrong. He meant thesaurus.

Andrew, I begin to fear for the helpfulness of your proposal to banner the Your Answer box. As there is simply no end to human stupidity, I can but fear and nearly expect that they’ll just keep right on doing the thing the banner tells them not to.

Waffle's Crazy Peanut

12:54 PM

@JasperLoy Hah!!! Yeah... "The quieter you are, the more you're able to hear" :P

tchrist

pouts

shouts

beats his chest

Jasper Loy

@Waffle'sCrazyPeanut How did you do in your exams?

tchrist

0

Q: What is the origin of the "towards a new" used in the titles of some research articles?

Examples: "Towards a new agenda for transforming war economies" "Towards a new agenda for Japanese telecommunications" "Towards a new age in the treatment of multiple myeloma"

etymology academia

beats head

Andrew Leach

Does "What's the origin" mean "Where did this first appear"?

Not that there is very much evidence of prior research.

Mitch

What is the origin of "What is the Origin of...?" ?

Waffle's Crazy Peanut

12:58 PM

@JasperLoy My exams are always worse! (Hmm... I haven't spoken anything about my exams) o_O

Matt Эллен

@AndrewLeach that's how I read it

Jasper Loy

@Waffle'sCrazyPeanut I remember you study in Harvard.

tchrist

@AndrewLeach It seeks the secret origin of their favorite superhero.

Mitch

The prequel

Waffle's Crazy Peanut

@JasperLoy What? Nah... I'm from India (Chennai, to be specific)

Jasper Loy

1:00 PM

@Waffle'sCrazyPeanut Oh then I must have mixed you up with someone else.

skullpatrol

What is the "Harvard" of India?

Waffle's Crazy Peanut

@skullpatrol Well, I don't think any of the institutes here can near Harvard... But, there are some good institutions - like IIT (Indian Institute of Technology)

tchrist

@AndrewLeach Actually, its origin probably lies in being the temporal or propositional opposite of those many treatises that in Latin began with De ... ...is.

That is, one looks backwards, the other forwards.

Jasper Loy

16 will get you 20, lol.

tchrist

But I’d hardly call that an “origin”.

Although arguably one could find a better From ... or Out of ... correspondent than De ... ...is.

terdon

1:08 PM

@Waffle'sCrazyPeanut You mean none of your universities are staffed by overpaid, self-important, pompous academics who have absolutely no interest in teaching and only care to advance their own political careers by publishing as much and as often as possible while stabbing each other in the back for grant money?

2

Jasper Loy

@terdon Wow wow, that sounds extreme, lol.

Waffle's Crazy Peanut

@terdon Awesome... How did you predict that? :P

Ice Girl

@skullpatrol Hi

skullpatrol

Hi

Jasper Loy

Here comes "he is guilty of this problem".

terdon

1:10 PM

@JasperLoy Depressingly accurate. Don't get me wrong, there's a lot of good work coming from that type of university but I would not wish it on anyone as a student.

skullpatrol

How are you @Ice Girl?

Ice Girl

@skullpatrol I'm fine. You?

terdon

At least not in the sciences. Big universities look for people who are big names in their field which implies they might be good at doing research but in no way suggests they are good teachers. In fact, they often hate teaching and are really really bad at it.

Waffle's Crazy Peanut

@terdon: Actually, I should say that it's exactly what's happening here... (take that to extreme) :D

2

terdon

Damn then :)

skullpatrol

1:12 PM

Fine thanks @Ice Girl

Ice Girl

@skullpatrol :D

skullpatrol

:-)

Waffle's Crazy Peanut

Serial-starring, eh? Hmm...

skullpatrol

The stars are twinkling ;-)

Matt Эллен

Indeed. Sometimes they burn out when they run out of fuel

Ice Girl

1:16 PM

:(

Waffle's Crazy Peanut

@terdon: I might start ranting if you excite me with the right amplitude... But well, I can point you to my blog post, where I've already ranted about my education system :D

terdon

Heh, I can imagine.

Waffle's Crazy Peanut

@terdon: wp.me/p3OCmi-6y - Might not be very interesting... (It's a rant! How can that be interesting?) But, that's what's going on in my college...

Anonymous

Hello.

Anonymous

Would anyone kindly improve text letter

Andrew Leach

1:28 PM

whom

fincing ??

Anonymous

@AndrewLeach Thanks. I wrote it in a hurry.

Andrew Leach

And it's one huge sentence.

Anonymous

It has to be printed now.

Anonymous

run-on sentence? really? @AndrewLeach

tchrist

Why aren’t vice-presidents vice presidents? Why are lieutenant commanders lieutenant commanders and petty officers petty officers, yet major generals aren’t major generals?

Anonymous

1:30 PM

I wanted to make it sound more formal. I would like any ideas on that.

Andrew Leach

Not necessarily a run-on sentence (although thus is suspect), but just too long.

Formal is matter-of-fact, not fancy words.

tchrist

Don’t forget to breathe.

Anonymous

@AndrewLeach So, aside from the spelling mistake, you don't see a major problem in it?

terdon

@bivoc I agree that the sentence is way too long. Also, you want three day not tree day and Mr X is also a full time employee.

Anonymous

Oh, I got it.

Andrew Leach

1:35 PM

We are issuing this letter to certify that the person mentioned as Mr. X also a resident of :country: and holder of id no
:###: is currently our designated overseas agent and full-time employee of our company :company:. We have recently requested that he travel to :country: on a three-day business trip, and we kindly ask you to extend him all appropriate assistance and permission.

terdon

^^ much better.

Andrew Leach

I have no idea what the bit after that is attempting to say.

terdon

I would still say ... is currently our designated overseas agent and A full-time employee...

Andrew Leach

Oh yes. Missed that.

terdon

Not capitalized of course, just a.

The last bit could be something like : ... all appropriate assistance and permission. We hereby declare that we can fulfill all obligations with respect to financing his voyage or bearing responsibility for any problems that may arise.

But I don't really speak legalese.

Anonymous

1:38 PM

@AndrewLeach I wanted to emphasis on the importance that, the company will take care of any unfortunate incidents that may happen during travel times. Like death, accidents e.t/.c... Embassies want to know who is responsible in events of that nature.

Anonymous

That's good.

Anonymous

copy/pasta :)

terdon

@bivoc If you copied my bit, make sure to copy the one I just edited. I had a typo.

Anonymous

@terdon Yeah, I did.

Anonymous

@AndrewLeach Shouldn't there out to be, a comma after the name? as shown here:

Anonymous

1:42 PM

> person mentioned as Mr. john, also a resident

Anonymous

To separate also from the name? Otherwise, also could be confused as part of the name.

Andrew Leach

Yes; and that means one after "id no X" -- before is -- as well.

terdon

@bivoc Personally, I would remove the also. What is it doing there? Also means as well as or in addition to. Having it there implies that Mr X is a resident of foo and also a resident of bar.

Anonymous

@terdon Good point. I removed it.

terdon

My version (which is not necessarily better than Adrew's):

>
This letter is to certify that Mr. X, a resident of :country: and holder of id no
:###:, is currently our designated overseas agent and a full-time employee of our company :company:. We have recently requested that he travel to :country: on a three-day business trip, and we kindly ask you to extend to him all appropriate assistance and permission.

Though I'm not at all sure that permission can be extended. Perhaps we kindly ask you to grant him all appropriate assistance and permission.

@AndrewLeach ?

Andrew Leach

1:48 PM

Grant is good.

tchrist

Damnatio ad bestias

Damnatio ad bestias (Latin for "condemnation to beasts") was a form of capital punishment in which the condemned were maimed on the circus arena or thrown to a cage with wild animals, often lions. It was brought to ancient Rome around the 2nd century BC. In Rome, damnatio ad bestias was used as entertainment and was part of the inaugural games of the Flavian Amphitheatre. From the 1st to 3rd centuries AD, this penalty was mainly applied to the worst criminals, slaves, and early Christians. == History == === Asia === The exact purpose of the early damnatio ad bestias is not known and mig...

Anonymous

There seems to be a vague, or phase of uncertainty between the end of the first sentence and the beginning of the next.

Anonymous

> ..full-time employee of our company :company:. We have recently requested..

Anonymous

I know that's how sentences are written, but they don't connect.

Anonymous

Shouldn't the first sentence end by carrying some information to the next?

Andrew Leach

1:53 PM

Not necessarily.

Fact A. Fact B. Request.

You don't need

Fact A and Fact B therefore Request.

Anonymous

> ..full-time employee of our company :company:. Thus, we have recently requested..

Anonymous

Just a little tweak, no?

Andrew Leach

Not necessary.

And actually, the request does not follow directly from his employment.

Otherwise every employee would be going.

Anonymous

Makes sense.

terdon

If you want, though as Andrew points out it is really not necessary, you could add something like "Therefore, in light of our recent request for him to travel to :country:..."

Andrew Leach

1:59 PM

Bear in mind that it may be read by someone whose first language is not English. It should be kept as simple as possible.

terdon

True. Mind you, these bureaucrat types all speak legalese anyway.

user8153

2:33 PM

hi

@AndrewLeach I cry to exist in this horrible world. What is this "to?"

RegDwigнt

I don't like "therefore, in light of".

A therefore is a "because of X". But an in light of is a "because of Y".

user58869

is "Gypsy" an offensive, disrespectful or inappropriate word to use when referring to romani people in Romania?

RegDwigнt

So either you're missing an and, or you should drop one of them. Or just reword it all.

Andrew Leach

@user8153 to is a particle. But "I cry to exist"?

RegDwigнt

@Alex any word at all can be used in an offensive and disrespectful manner.

George Pompidou

2:39 PM

oh no, not the Gypsies again

RegDwigнt

But there's George, he'll tell you better.

user58869

well... it's just that i've used it a few times and i didn't think there was anything wrong with it at the time

user58869

i didn't use it to insult anyone

George Pompidou

generally speaking Alex, no it's not offensive or inappropriate. at least not in the same sense a word like nigger would be considered offensive in America or other western places.

user58869

i see

RegDwigнt

2:41 PM

Well, the Romanians say nigger and don't mean it in a disrespectful or offensive way.

George Pompidou

it is not technically the correct term for the Romani people, but it is not offensive

RegDwigнt

And euphemisms treadmills never lead anywhere anyway.

George Pompidou

yeah Reg, but for example, every Romanian and their mother and brother say "ţigan" all the time to refer to them.

whereas you'd have a hard time finding someone in America who is willing to say "nigger" in public

that's the comparison I was making.

RegDwigнt

@GeorgePompidou except for half the population.

But yeah I know what you mean.

I read JSB's stuff so I'm up to date.

George Pompidou

hehe, I guess. people are careful about that word these days. even the racist ones.

oh, good ^.^

well, my perspective is from a very multiracial city, so I suppose that's why I don't hear much public racism.

RegDwigнt

2:45 PM

Anyway. I can use any word at all to mean "dirty stinking motherfucker that should rot in hell", and I can use that exact same word to mean "my fellow countryman with whom I like to drink and chill and who's cooler than myself in more ways than there are ways". It's not the word that matters, it's how I use it.

No word at all means anything in and of itself. It's just a placeholder for a thought.

George Pompidou

I figured out how to type ţ on my workstation.

and ş

Matt Эллен

no you didn't!

George Pompidou

@RegDwigнt I could not agree with you more. you should tell that to all Americans.

RegDwigнt

I figured out how to type ы.

Matt Эллен

I figured out how to type

RegDwigнt

2:48 PM

You mistyped "how to lie".

Matt Эллен

did I?

RegDwigнt

You did. That's why it is a lie.

QED

George Pompidou

everyone in the environments in which I grew up in the US is so infinitely fucking over-sensitive and concerned about the most particular things they pick out in language, and they're so self-satisfied with being sensitive about those things that they ignore real offensive language.

Matt Эллен

@RegDwigнt you'll never be able to prove it.

RegDwigнt

@MattЭллен I just did. That was not never.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

2:49 PM

@GeorgePompidou I'm offended at your use of the word "self-satisfied" to describe Americans.

Matt Эллен

@RegDwigнt I just undid what you did.

George Pompidou

damn, I've offended another person.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

feels self-satisfied

terdon

@RegDwigнt hmm, yes, fair point. However, the therefore is "because of the stuff I said up to now" while in light of is "in light of the stuff I will talk about now". Still, you're quite right it is repetitive.

RegDwigнt

@GeorgePompidou blame Canada.

George Pompidou

2:50 PM

sings the song from South Park

RegDwigнt

The other day I saw a nice documentary about Ireland. I never realized just how much they did not like the English.

George Pompidou

poor Canada. they literally did nothing. ever. they're just our harmless comically large hat.

RegDwigнt

I mean, they couldn't even pick a side in the WWII. They were neutral.

Matt Эллен

@GeorgePompidou you're their harmful, morbidly obese trousers

George Pompidou

yep. giant fat rolls.

terdon

2:52 PM

@GeorgePompidou Considering the track record of their southern neighbors doing "nothing" as you called it is a definite improvement.

George Pompidou

is everyone being defensive of Canada now?

RegDwigнt

Nope. I am talking about the Irish in point of fact.

Matt Эллен

nah, just poking fun at the US :D

George Pompidou

I do that all the time and people yell at me for it!

I guess just tchrist

I see him as like twelve angry people.

RegDwigнt

So anyway, in one city, they were, um, whatchacall it, re-staging some battle? In proper costumes and all?

Matt Эллен

2:53 PM

oh, right, yeah. Well he wasn't listening...

terdon

"Today I invaded 4 countries, financed wars on 7 more, changes my laws to give my goverment sweeping powers of surveillance and helped spread nuclear weapons in the middle east. What did you do?" "Umm... nothing."

Sounds pretty damn good to me.

RegDwigнt

So anyway, some people naturally played the Nazis, and the reporter asked them how it felt, and they went "Why, it's no problem at all. And at any rate better than having to play a Brit".

Matt Эллен

ouch

Andrew Leach

Just means they fit that role better.

Matt Эллен

:D

RegDwigнt

2:55 PM

And then they drove around the town in tanks and as if to prove the point, absolutely everyone booed at the English and absolutely everyone applauded the Germans.

George Pompidou

@terdon we're making money, man. that's what it's all about, getting stacked. we are loaded rednecks and you are broke rednecks.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@RegDwigнt Why would it feel like anything in particular to play the Nazis? Did they have to re-enact the gas chambers or something?

RegDwigнt

But they weren't applauding in any assholish "HURRR IMA NAZI look there's NAZIS coming DERP" kind of way. But rather in a cutesy "hey look someone's coming who's not English" kind of way.

It was really quite funny and sweet.

George Pompidou

hurrr!

Matt Эллен

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Because Nazis are internationally demonised

RegDwigнt

2:56 PM

What ever did you do to those poor people, Matt?

George Pompidou

saw Reg talking like that and now thinks it's cool

hurr durrr!

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇