English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

trg787

12:00 AM

That's me too sql.ru/forum/actualfile.aspx?id=11031606

And nobody wanted to look at me?????

Martha

Dammit. My picture editing skills aren't fast enough, everyone has left.

simchona

I'm still here...

Martha

This was outside my office a few months back. Unfortunately, all I had was my cell phone camera, which I was trying not to get wet. Hence the not-so-good quality and the awning intruding on the top right.

But it was an honest-to-goodness full double rainbow.

simchona

I see a bunch of double rainbows

its cool

trg787

how to insert pics into here?

Martha

12:08 AM

@trg787 See that "upload" button on the right? Try clicking it.

Before you do, though, please remember that this is chat room is (a) public, and (b) fully archived and searchable. So don't post anything that could come back to haunt you.

trg787

Cerberus

@trg787 Hi! I saw a red block with text on it...

@trg787 is that you? Sweet! How long ago?

@Martha Very nice! Eat that, cry guy.

trg787

@Cerebrus, I think when I was abt 12.y.o

It's my father (to the right)

Cerberus

? I see no father?

trg787

Cerberus

12:14 AM

Ah! Wow, nice medals!

trg787

Hwe was a sdew-minwer at Baltic sea

Till 1949

Cerberus

What is that?

trg787

I meant mine trawlers... He got the highest medal for Navy

Cerberus

Cool.

trg787

12:59 AM

Oh.... guys.... don't know what to do... I'm getting into such a depression...

Cerberus

Why, what's wrong?

trg787

Prices for the food raised to the sky... What to do?

Cerberus

Oh dear... how much have they risen?

trg787

I eat only a once per day Terribly raised @Cerebrus Grechka 30000 It's just fantastic price

Cerberus

If you compare bread to a year ago, by what percentage has it risen?

trg787

1:11 AM

Bread, eggs ... it's tolerable so far.... It's all local..... But all import - it's impossible to buy

Cerberus

Oh, that really sucks.

Let's hope Lukashenko will accept help from the IMF...

trg787

Imagine: a cleaner get 30000 per month. For to feed a family you must pay min 30000 in a shop

Cerberus

That sucks...

trg787

300000 Sorry Typo

Cerberus

Oh, I have to go.

Don't despair, eventually prices will drop!

Later.

trg787

1:19 AM

@Cerebrus, I think Russia decided to undermined us

trg787

1:30 AM

This S.O.B.s on purpose are undermining our economics, they ruined all our financial structure. Belarus got such a terrible attack from Germany, at dawn of 1941/06/22 They forgot all. Belarus is only 6 towns, population = 10,000,000. It's less than in Moscow. For compare: Viet Nam population = 80,000,000

simchona

2:06 AM

@waiwai933 Can you please see whether this should be migrated?

0

Q: Normalization vs Canonicalization?

It seems both terms are used to describe the effort to transform from arbitrary form to a unique form. Is there any difference between the two words? Why is there XML normalize-space but not canonicalize-space? And a file name in a canonical-form but not a file name in a normalized-form?

simchona

2:19 AM

@trg787 I'm sorry, what?

waiwai933

@simchona It looks like a word differences question to me, and I'm not sure where would be a better place.

simchona

@waiwai933 I think it relies heavily on the concepts from XML/FOL. Canonicalization isn't a word outside the computing context

Programmers.SE maybe?

waiwai933

Let me check with one of their mods.

simchona

Ok

@waiwai933 I flagged it off topic, which was deemed valid

@trg787 What do you mean "wtf am I doing"?

Robusto

@simchona — Canonical refers primarily to matters pertaining to the Roman Catholic Church (cf. canon law), but has been used figuratively in various disciplines where it may be construed as a synonym of dogmatic, meaning adhering strictly to the rules or customs that have been set down as standards.

simchona

2:26 AM

But searching "canonicalization" yields only computing results. Maybe that's just based on my history

However, his question goes into why XML things are named certain ways, which I don't think can be fully answered on English.SE

Maybe on a different SE; it's still interesting

waiwai933

A Programmers mod has rejected the question, and I think it's close enough on-topic for us, so I'm not going to close it (but if the community chooses to, that's fine by me)

simchona

Can we ask him to take out the XML bits then?

waiwai933

I wouldn't mind that—that would probably improve the question as far as on-topic goes.

simchona

@waiwai933 That's the bit I thought made it off-topic. Thank you.

@trg787

What does this mean?

And:

@waiwai: Could you possibly also delete my comment conversation? It's not relevant any more

waiwai933

@simchona I've left 3 comments on the question, but deleted the others

Robusto

2:32 AM

Canonicalization can only serve as a neologism (perhaps even mongrelization) for Comp Sci. It has no other usage.

simchona

@waiwai933 Thank you. (Do you get what trg is saying to me?)

Robusto

"In computer science, canonicalization (abbreviated c14n, where 14 represents the number of letters between the C and the N), (also sometimes standardization or normalization) is a process for converting data that has more than one possible representation into a "standard", "normal", or canonical form."

" This can be done to compare different representations for equivalence, to count the number of distinct data structures, to improve the efficiency of various algorithms by eliminating repeated calculations, or to make it possible to impose a meaningful sorting order."

waiwai933

@simchona Nope, but luckily, that doesn't fall within the scope of my duties.

simchona

@trg787 What is "kher"?

@trg787 And what do you mean, what am I doing in my life?

trg787

kher means smth abs futile stuff

simchona

2:35 AM

So, @trg787, are you asking why I'm so involved in English.SE?

I take extremely great offense to that.

waiwai933

@trg787 Please watch carefully what you say.

simchona

@waiwai933 Thank you, yet again tonight

Vitaly

@waiwai 1462770 still needs to be deleted, we don't want the Russian taboo word coming up in search results. Thanks.

Cerberus

is everything OK in here?

simchona

@Vitaly So what he said was even stronger than "get back in the kitchen"?

@Cerberus Some very strong opinions from trg as to why I'm not being a good female

And asking why I'm on English.SE

Apparently, women belong with kids, the kitchen, and something else I couldn't translate

Cerberus

2:43 AM

Seriously?

simchona

Yes.

That's what the removed comments are

Cerberus

He wasn't joking or something?

simchona

He basically asked, in bad English, "wtf was I doing"

waiwai933

Even if he were, it's still extremely rude.

Cerberus

Very sad. I am disappointed in him.

simchona

2:44 AM

He said there was a "3K" formula to being a woman

Cerberus

He seemed friendly for the most part, just very odd. But this...

3K?

This may be the very first time we have actually needed a moderator in the room. Kudos to Wai.

simchona

3K = kinder, kitchen, kirchen?

I thank you both for caring about this. I know I complain a lot, but it's nice to know there are great people in the community

Cerberus

? I don't remember your complaining ever.

You know, most people here are educated liberals. His behaviour is completely absurd.

simchona

I saw him bring up the IMF earlier with you?

Cerberus

I brought that up. He said he was depressed because food prices had risen and he had no money to pay for it.

So I said I hoped Lukashenko would suck it up and accept the money from the IMF.

simchona

2:53 AM

Interesting. I guess I don't know enough about modern politics.

When did he get into this room?

Mana

Yo dudes.

simchona

Hi @Mana. Glad you're here

Mana

Oh, wait, no, crap, there's a message right up there saying you're a girl. ARGH WHY AM I SO BAD AT GREETINGS.

simchona

I take no offense to being called a dude

Being called a bad female, yes :p

Mana

Yeah, that's pretty bad.

simchona

2:57 AM

Yup. Keep an eye out for trg.

Cerberus

@simchona Hmm I don't know, he has been here quite a while. A month, perhaps? No idea.

@Mana Yo!

Mana

Okay. I will pout at him if he says weird things like that again.

@Cerberus heeeeeeeey

simchona

@Cerberus Then he takes a disliking to ... females

I'd better get back to my kitchen. My fifteen children are getting hungry. My sole purpose in life is to care for them, each and every one.

Cerberus

@simchona He has always been very odd, hard to communicate with, incoherent thoughts.

@simchona I am glad you learned your lesson.

simchona

@Cerberus How dare I wander outside the home? The Real World is no place for a woman

Cerberus

3:00 AM

Indeed!

simchona

Women these days.

Cerberus

In ancient Athens, the female apartments in a well-to-do house were on the second floor, the men's downstairs, so that no woman could leave the house without her husband's noticing it.

simchona

So they got really good at building ladders?

Cerberus

Hehe. Probably so.

simchona

Rapunzel

Cerberus

3:05 AM

There is a famous speech against Eratosthenes, the lover of a married women, in which her adultery is described in great detail, especially the layout of the house and how they arranged their rendez-vous.

Right, Rapunzel would have laughed at that.

simchona

I'm confused about your explanation about Eratosthenes. So he was the lover of a married woman (plural?), and that woman's adultery was explained?

Mana

I'm confused about where Eratosthenes came into anything.

simchona

@Mana Ancient Greeks cheating on each other.

I'm off. I'll catch up with y'all later

Mana

Peace

Cerberus

@simchona Oh, oops, I meant woman, though he probably had several mistresses...

Bye!

> 4 ... and I think, gentlemen, that this is what I have to demonstrate: that Eratosthenes committed adultery with my wife and defiled her and disgraced my children and outraged myself, setting foot in my house; and there was no enmity between me and him except for this, nor did I do this for money, so that I should become rich instead of poor, nor for any other benefit at all except the revenge to which I was entitled according to the laws.

Mana

3:18 AM

So, Cerberus. I uh. Guess it's just me and you.

Cerberus

shuffles uncomfortably What are you going to do with me?

trg787

I don't why but for some reason I'm a mysoginist

Cerberus

Look, why did you say all those things?

trg787

@Cerebrus, cause I'm into a hardest depression

Cerberus

Okay, and I sympathize with you.

But is it a good idea to say things that make other people feel bad?

trg787

3:33 AM

Brother, you can't imagine in what sh** I'm sittin now

Cerberus

I can't.

But is it helping you if you are rude to other people? I don't think so.

Mana

@trg787 That being the case, I would strongly recommend taking some time off from the site!

2

Cerberus

Yeah, you could do that.

Mana

If you continue to take your shit out on other people, you're going to draw out a lot of disgust and dark emotions and I don't think that's going to help anybody's situation. Especially yours.

trg787

I'm sick seriuosly, no money Don't know what to do Actually today I ate nothing

Cerberus

3:38 AM

Can't you ask family or friends for help?

Sell some of your things and buy food from the money?

trg787

They can't help endleslly

Cerberus

Anything's better than not eating.

Take a look at the things you spend your money on. Is there anything at all that you could do without? Make a long list of everything.

trg787

I developed in myself a kind of anorexia

Cerberus

That is really bad.

Do something, have a talk with a friend, ask people for advice on how you can improve your situation.

You think your world is going to collapse and everything is all bad. But it isn't; I'm sure things will get better eventually.

I have to go now.

Take care, and be nice to people, OK? You don't want to make things worse.

trg787

I buy food only for only my mom (85 y.o.) myself doesn't eat nothing..... PS I also hope

Mana

3:45 AM

:( oh man, that is some shit you're going through. Sorry, I didn't realize how bad it was.

trg787

ppl, hard times comes.... There are situations that you can't cope with. My Internet per month via 3G costs 1 dinner

Mana

I know that cooking.se has a bunch of questions on cheap food that's easy to buy or make; if you can manage to find the money you might be able to make yourself some cheaper meals

trg787

@Mana, in principle I have a garden, all ground in "prunes" (can't recall how it in English) But what from that prunes?

trg787

4:04 AM

I've decided to feed myself by music

Mana

that is a good way to die!

trg787

@Mana, of course I'm kidding.... but really very hard times

the 21-st century and you live like a slave

Who from you know: where is THE promised PROGRESS? Why do ppl must f*** everyday for bread and butter?

Mana

@trg787 I have no idea! I'm kind of completely clueless to that stuff.

trg787

@Mana, if not a secret, in what coutry do you live?

Mana

Canada.

trg787

4:17 AM

@Mana, my cograts! :)

Mana

and my apologies for your situation. Some people get it better than others, but...geez, you got it really rough. :/

trg787

I live in Gomel (near to Tchernobyl), Belarus. Actually it 's getting into Zimbabwe. Russia betraied us.

Mana

What happened?

trg787

They ruined our financial system, aiming to buy all our main

simchona

4:36 AM

(Hi @Mana)

Mana

Hello!

simchona

Hows your night? (Wherever in Canada you find yourself)

Mana

It's dark and I'm listening to bugs chirping and frogs croaking.

How is your night? :)

simchona

good so far -- Cerberus and waiwai made me feel more comfortable again earlier

I'm going to eat dinner tho, so bbl

Mana

4:51 AM

And I am heading to bed, so also bbl.

user19161

5:21 AM

@simchona I don't know exactly what trg787 said, but I know his English is not very good, so he may be easily misunderstood. Also, some things that are not offensive in one language may become so if awkwardly translated, especially if communicated online. Just some random thoughts. Relax!

user19161

@martha Was the rainbow outside your office the picture you wanted to show us, or another one?

Martha

@JasperLoy Yes. No. That one. Gah, I never know how to unambiguously answer either/or questions.

Lemme try again: the rainbow outside my office was the picture I wanted to show you guys.

user19161

@Martha In this case, it's the nature of my question, not your English that is the devil here.

user19161

In fact I didn't realise this until you mentioned it.

user19161

@trg787 Try to use nicer words so that you don't offend anyone. And good luck for the food and everything!

Martha

5:32 AM

@JasperLoy Is ok, this is chat, we're not always careful of our phrasing here.

RobinHood

@kit when you ping like @Rob to Robusto message would also come to me in my inbox, becuase intially three word of Robusto and RobinHood is same. so take care

Martha

(My sister and I like answering false dichotomy questions with "yes". "Would you like cheesecake or chocolate cake?" "Uh, yes?")

user19161

Oh, Robusto's messages went into RobinHood's inbox instead.

Martha

@RobinHood This sounds like it's a bug in the system: it should ping the user who's actually in this room, not just any random person whose handle starts with the same three letters.

user19161

Unless of course robinhood was also in the room at that time...

user19161

5:37 AM

But robinhood lives in the woods, while robusto is only found in the city, since he is a cigar.

Martha

@JasperLoy I don't think I've seen him here before. (I think I'd remember that scary avatar.)

waiwai933

5:48 AM

@Martha That's [status-bydesign], because users come in and out of chat all the time. (It won't ping you if you haven't been in chat for some time, though). And if you do Robu (with the @—trying not to ping pointlessly here), it won't get RobinHood; it's only if you use letters that are ambiguous.

simchona

@JasperLoy He told me that I should follow the "3K formula: kinder, kitchen, kirchen"

@JasperLoy And asked "wtf are you doing here"

Martha

@waiwai933 Meh. I guess I can see some logic behind it. (Part of the confusion is that pinging works differently in chat than in comments.)

simchona

@JasperLoy and used some Russian word that another user said is highly taboo

Martha

@simchona Oh. Wow. People like that still exist?

simchona

even if he can't speak English well, using a word that is taboo in his language indicates that he knew what he was saying

@Martha apparently. Luckily, waiwai is a good mod and came to help

So @JasperLoy, they weren't just random thoughts

Martha

5:56 AM

Ok, it's 2:00 a.m. and I'm nodding off in front of my computer. I really don't know why I'm still up. Good night, all!

simchona

I guess Jasper dropped out before he could read my explanation.

z7sg

8:19 AM

@simchona I would love to know that word!

But I am very disappointed in that guy for being abusive. He seemed like a nice chap in an earlier chat on here. Sometimes you just can't tell.

Jez

8:33 AM

This is why we need Russian-English translation to be ontopic

z7sg

9:33 AM

We need this:

47

Russian Language & Usage

Proposed Q&A site for students, teachers, and linguists wanting to discuss the finer points of the Russian language.

Currently in commitment.

F'x

@z7sg hopefully, noöne around has 99% on their Russian SAT test :)

z7sg

Ah I don't get it... SAT test - so must be US only joke

Jez

9:47 AM

@z7sg why do you think they should be expected to deal with a translation away from Russian?

F'x

2

hum, someone’s be naughty!

being reverted by your boss on the first day of your new assignment, that must hurt

Jez

Jeff Prudewood

F'x

maybe I should @RegDwight on the above image

and here comes da man!

Jez

good timing

F'x

hi Reg!

z7sg

9:51 AM

He swoops in!

Jez

@z7sg I STILL see two unicorns and you're both of them

RegDwight

Zet's osom!

z7sg

@Jez The German site does and they will too (if they launch). If you don't understand the Russian word, you can ask for it to be explained in English.

Jez

@z7sg what if I want it explained in French?

z7sg

@Jez You are possibly still drunk from last night.

Jez

9:55 AM

come on... does anyone else see 2 unicorns?

z7sg

@Jez No you can't

RegDwight

Jez is actually spot on. Must be an exception or something, but he is.

Jez

@z7sg well quite.

RegDwight

And you've been two of you for at least a day.

I remember pinging you yesterday and getting offered your name twice.

z7sg

@Jez Quite what? We don't see that as a problem!

Jez

9:57 AM

who is 'we'?

We are.

The both unicorns.

@z7sg

heh

yes, there are two of them

Jez

9:57 AM

forgot to disguise the sockpuppet

unless it's an identical twin

RegDwight

Everybody's drunk! Yippie! My job here is done.

F'x

it's a multicorn, then

Jez

duocorn

RegDwight

It's a clonecorn.

z7sg

We think it's because we're logged in at home still from when we were drunk last night.

F'x

9:58 AM

@RegDwight bartender, more of the same!

Jez

@z7sg the problem is you have chat accounts linked to english.se and SO.se

and you're using both

RegDwight

@Fx I just hope the two unicorns don't swear twice as much as that one already did.

In Russian.

z7sg

Doppeleinhorn.

RegDwight

Speaking of which, what did that Belorussian guy say that pissed everyone off? I don't see anything in the transcript. Did it get flagged and deleted?

@z7sg Doppelkorn.

z7sg

@RegDwight Now that we wish we knew!!

RegDwight

9:59 AM

google.com/…

I think we've got it. It's Doppelkorn.

z7sg

He was cursing and directing misogynist abuse towards simchona, AIUI.

RegDwight

That much I figured.

z7sg

@RegDwight Doppelkorn und cola. That's the nasty stuff the kids were drinking! And they could legally buy beer. Very odd.

RegDwight

Very normal.

And look, they are still better off than the White Russian.

Matt Ellen

@Fx: hands of my low-hanging-fruit ;)

Jez

10:10 AM

geez

no savings put away this month and i still end it on -£600

bloody fuel expense, bloody no working from home so i have to piss away money on fuel...

this is getting critical. i must have a higher wage

RegDwight

10:56 AM

@Fx What's bothering me most about the current title is that neither "boobs" nor "tits" are slang. Both terms are exceptionally mainstream.

RegDwight

11:12 AM

0

Q: Do you pronounce "read" in "management (read: fools)" like "reed" or like "red"?

I do believe the question is pretty selfish planetary and needs no further comets!

pronunciation

Selfish planetary and needs no further comets? Really? Really?

4

Where are @Martha and @Kit when you need them?

Rhodri

11:45 AM

The sad thing is that he thinks he was downvoted for wordplay rather than asking the question really poorly.

RobinHood

@RegDwight hey,

how are you man?

z7sg

Hey do any of you ppls live in Germany?

RegDwight

@z7sg Eldros does.

@RobinHood And hi.

z7sg

Or have lived there...? Is there always 2.38 months of commission on rental contracts?

RegDwight

Um, no.

Are you moving to Munich or what?

z7sg

11:51 AM

Good, cos that seems excessive! No, maybe to NRW.

RegDwight

I see. Pekka out, z7sg in.

z7sg

I've not been acquainted with Pekka.

RegDwight

NRW does not have to be expensive, but there is a huge lot of variation depending on the place.

Grace Note

@z7sg If you visited the chat.meta.stackoverflow Tavern, you'd probably run into Pekka.

RegDwight

Pekka, Tübingen, Germany

123k 13 111 266

php javascript html css mysql jquery php5

Grace Note

11:53 AM

But then you'd have to deal with the chat.meta.stackoverflow Tavern.

RegDwight

Wow he's no longer in Cologne. When did that happen?

I thought he'd move directly from Köln to SanFran.

Grace Note

He mentioned a planned move a while back, but I didn't know where he was going. Implication was that it was still in Germany, though.

z7sg

It's not the high rental cost that bothers me, it's the giving thousands of € to someone for nothing!

Well obviously I want to pay less rent too but... I think you know what I mean.

RegDwight

Well you don't have to deal with Immobilienmakler if you don't want to.

Rent directly from owner.

z7sg

Yes I will try and avoid the cursed makleri!

RegDwight

11:56 AM

Thank god you don't really care about money.

18 hours ago, by z7sg

@Cerberus I'm not interested in € but in rainbows, stars, magic oats, glitter, things like that.

Transcript for

English Language & Usage: Multi-Layer…