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2:00 AM
in Europe it's easy. The advertised price is the price you pay at checkout.
 
It’s like going to a restaurant and buying a $20 meal.
 
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 I'm just trying to find out what it would take to change things and whether people complain about it or not.
 
In the US and Canada it's more complicated.
 
First you pay $4 extra to server as a post-bribe.
 
@Cerberus I don't think most people complain about it because they've never bothered to think about it and they don't care much. And most of them have never been to Europe.
 
2:00 AM
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 I'm actually not sure whether it is that way in every country, although I have never seen prices without taxes in Europe.
 
Then you pay $1.53 in tax.
So you walk out of there $25.53 poorer for your $20 meal.
Standard.
 
@tchrist We also don't pay as much in tips. Some people don't tip at all...
 
And that’s without booze taxes.
 
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 I don't know, I've never been to a country where shipping was included in prices online, and yet I complain about it: they should include shipping. And, voilà, more and more shops are starting to do just that. Not for very cheap things, though.
 
Oh, and did you remember a $2-bill for the coat-check?
 
2:03 AM
Haha, in a restaurant, really?
 
Well, maybe not.
That sounds clubby.
 
The garderobe is usually € 1 in clubs. But never ever in restaurants.
 
Yes, $1.
But that’s without tip.
 
The loo is € 0,50.
 
The corner is free.
 
2:04 AM
Most people don't tip in clubs.
 
@Cerberus I don't complain about shipping costs being included because they can vary drastically depending on what you are ordering and what shipping method you want to use. It makes sense to break them out.
 
Dangerous.
 
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 It depends. Within Holland, it's always the same price per product.
No alternative shipping methods.
 
@Cerberus You would be amazed at how complacent a thoroughly inured populace can become.
Plus, inertia.
 
@tchrist The tip, the extra fees, etc, in a restaurant are not really germane to the problem of prices not including tax. A restaurant could certainly include the tax in all its prices, at least, one where you tip the waiter. McDonalds might have a harder time, what with being a national chain, and there being over a million tax rates.
 
2:05 AM
If it's big, the standard price is € 6,75. If it's small, you pay per gram.
@tchrist I don't know, they do complain about various other things, like broadband costs, a lot.
 
Pay per gram? In a club? Interesting.
 
@Cerberus really? We have the postal service price, the faster courier price, the super-duper-fast courier price, etc.
 
@tchrist It's good stuff.
 
Apparently.
Good things come in small packages.
 
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 There are several companies that offer shipping, and you could use priority or signed, but a normal web shop will only offer one method.
@tchrist I actually don't care for drugs (except alcohol), but cocaine is pretty common here.
 
2:08 AM
@Cerberus well, most places here at least offer the standard and expedited price.
 
I don’t understand why people like cocaine.
I never have.
 
Though not as common as in Berlin, where the loos in clubs have coke-sniffing tables. Or shelves. Or maybe it was heroine.
 
More likely tina or kitty.
 
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Not here!
 
> A family of three earning $75,000 in Cheyenne, Wy., paid just $2,808, or 3.7% of its income. In Bridgeport, Conn., that same family would have paid $16,105, or 21.5% of its income, excluding federal taxes.
And that’s just income taxes.
 
2:10 AM
Don't worry, income taxes are very complicated here.
And people do complain.
My paycheck already contains like 8 kinds of taxes or compulsory insurance payments that I don't even understand.
And don't even try driving 2 hours south and understanding a Belgian tax form!
It will be in Dutch, and yet not in Dutch.
 
If I drive two hours south, I’m in Colorado Springs, which might as well be a whole nother country.
If I drive two hours north, I’m in Wyoming, which is full of undisclosed locations.
 
Undisclosed?
 
Dick Cheneyville.
It has very beautiful places.
And very boring places.
And very few people, which is nice.
I believe their state legislature is only allowed to meet once every two years, which is a tremendously marvellous notion.
 
2:26 AM
If I drive two hours north, I will be at the bottom of the sea.
Well, not really.
@tchrist That sounds weird.
 
Quite progressive, if you ask me.
What the fuck good did your legislator ever do you?
The less they meet, the less harm they can do.
Sorry, I repent.
 
I don't know.
 
There you have it then.
 
They keep government in check, to some degree.
They also make good laws.
 
confuses
 
2:28 AM
The European Parliament is the best European institution.
It's still not super.
 
I have lost all faith in all governance.
 
But better than, say, the European Commission.
You should read Hobbes.
 
I’m not an anarchist.
I just hate them all.
 
He will make you appreciate the Leviathan that a government is.
 
I haven’t read Hobbes since um, either 17 or 19, I forget.
 
2:30 AM
It still does a ton of good things.
 
Hard to prove by me.
It picks up the garbage. Oh wait, no it doesn’t. In my stupid town I have to pay for that separate.
 
Hobbes thought only an (absolute) monarch could so this. We think a democratic government can, too.
 
It builds roads.
 
Still, it does all those things.
 
Oh wait, not really, and not much, and then they charge extra.
 
2:31 AM
We have to pay for garbange too.
 
It collects parking meter fines.
 
Even if they charge you extra, at least it gets done.
 
They do deliver power and water and gas.
Oh wait, no they don’t, we pay for those.
 
Which means you always have a parking space when you really need it.
 
@Cerberus What planet do you live on?
 
2:33 AM
Don't you?
Then they don't charge enough for parking or don't fine enough people.
Here it's an outrageous € 5/h, but the result is that you can always find a space.
I think a fine is less expensive than leaving your car somewhere without a...what do you call them? Not tickets?
 
Huh?
 
You use tickets for fines.
 
They raised it from $1/hour to $1.25/hour, which is annoying.
It’s the same on the meter as in the city-owned parking structures.
And is only like 7am to 7pm.
And not on weekends.
Except the meters.
 
If they make it more expensive, there will be more free spaces.
 
Meters you still pay on Saturday, but the structures are free then.
And nothing costs on Sunday.
 
2:36 AM
It is like 1st class on the train.
 
You cannot get a parking spot Friday night or Saturday night.
 
Then perhaps they should make those nights more expensive...
 
People would get mad at you.
Plus, it would be hard to pass a vote.
 
They would have you vote on that?
Prices are increased on a regular basis here...
The thing is, € 5/h hits poor people harder than rich people.
The rich don't care.
So perhaps it is not entirely egalitarian.
 
@Cerberus "Somehow hostile?" I think you read too much into it.
 
2:39 AM
As I said, I totally did not understand your reaction.
 
You can’t raise taxes here without putting it to a vote.
It’s illegal.
 
I see.
So people have voted for the increase to 1.25?
 
Otherwise government would go nucking futz.
It was so we could use credit cards.
We couldn’t useta do that.
Yes, people voted.
The cool thing is that you can pay for two hours, out a little thingy on your dashboard, and change parking spots all you like.
We couldn’t useta do that, either.
So it seemed like a win.
You really cannot let the government get away with deciding how much to tax you.
Only you have that right.
Or else they just dream shit up and waste money,
 
They're supposed to represent you...
And they waste money anyway.
 
If they want my money, they have to ask my permission first. It’s the law.
 
2:45 AM
> "[T]he main job of a federal judge is not to supervise settlements, and especially not to bully parties into settling their cases," he wrote. "The judge’s job is to decide cases, so that every member of the public, not only the parties, can benefit from the public resources that go into the judicial system."
Unrelated, but fair.
I don't get why so many cases are settled.
 
The Taxpayer Bill of Rights (abbreviated TABOR) is a concept advocated by conservative and free market libertarian groups, primarily in the United States, as a way of limiting the growth of government. It is not a charter of rights but a provision requiring that increases in overall tax revenue be tied to inflation and population increases unless larger increases are approved by referendum. Colorado example The most well-known example of TABOR legislation is in the state of Colorado. In 1992, the voters of the state approved a measure which amended Article X of the Colorado Constitution...
 
It usually seems better for a judge to issue a verdict.
 
Cases are settled because of money.
It always costs more to go to trial.
Whether you win or lose.
 
I can see why it may be beneficial in many civil cases.
But not in criminal cases.
 
Criminal cases are the same.
It’s the plea system.
 
2:47 AM
A judge should convict you, not a prosecutor.
 
You wish.
The prosecutors routinely super-duper-over-trump the charges.
 
I don't get why anyone would want a plea system except prosecutors. It gives them huge power.
Yes, I know how it goes.
 
That way they will get you to plead guilty to something less than that, which still totally fucks you over.
 
I know.
 
It’s an extortion racket.
 
2:48 AM
It has to do with the amount of initiative judges are expected to display.
I believe judges are supposed to be very passive in adversarial systems.
 
> As you are going with your adversary to the magistrate, try hard to be reconciled on the way, or your adversary may drag you off to the judge, and the judge turn you over to the officer, and the officer throw you into prison.
> When thou goest with thine adversary to the magistrate, as thou art in the way, give diligence that thou mayest be delivered from him; lest he hale thee to the judge, and the judge deliver thee to the officer, and the officer cast thee into prison.
Sicut erat in principio, et nunc, et semper.
 
But it doesn't have to be.
Give more power to judges.
 
> Wen ur enemi takz u to cort, tri 2 settel owt ov cort, or u gettin thron into teh jael!
The judges have their own problems, like this minimal sentencing bullshit.
They’ve legislated away the power of a judge to judge.
 
I thought those minimal sentences were just guidelines?
 
No.
 
2:52 AM
Sure?
 
That’s the problem.
 
And for which crimes do they have minima?
 
A mandatory sentence is a court decision setting where judicial discretion is limited by law. Typically, people convicted of certain crimes must be punished with at least a minimum number of years in prison. Mandatory sentencing laws vary from country to country; it is mainly an area of interest only in Common Law jurisdictions, since Civil Law jurisdictions usually prescribe minimum and maximum sentences for every type of crime in explicit laws. United States federal juries are generally not allowed to be informed of the mandatory minimum penalties that may apply if the accused is conv...
 
Not long ago, a doctor was found guilty of murder, but he received no punishment, because it was euthanasia on his own mother (he had not followed proper procedures).
 
Mandatory sentencing would have forced him into jail for 25 to life, or something like that.
 
2:54 AM
> Civil Law jurisdictions usually prescribe minimum and maximum sentences for every type of crime in explicit laws.
Huh?
I don't think we have many minima.
@tchrist Ouch.
 
> Mandatory sentencing and increased punishment were enacted when the United States Congress passed the Boggs Act of 1952. The acts made a first time cannabis possession offense a minimum of two to ten years with a fine up to $20,000; however, in 1970, the United States Congress repealed mandatory penalties for cannabis offenses.
> In 1973, New York State introduced mandatory minimum sentences of 15 years to life imprisonment for possession of more than 4 oz (112 g) of a hard drug.
 
Most laws go "...shall be punished with at most x months/years in prison".
 
Ours are the other way. Now.
Those are mandatory. There is no appeal.
 
And do judges actually follow those mandates in practice? Or do they find ways to declare the defendant guilty of some less severe crime if they find the minimum unreasonable for the actual crime he has committed?
 
If you thought the so-called military–industrial complex was a plot hatched in Hell, just wait till you meet the equally so-called criminal–justice system.
 
2:57 AM
I read about it.
 
@Cerberus A few try to get around it. The prosecutors appeal on procedural grounds, and always win.
It is terrible.
 
Ugh.
 
I need to to go to bed.
 
The right-wing populist party is always crying about minimum sentences here.
 
I can find nothing to brighten my view.
So I must await the dawn.
 
2:58 AM
Read a good novel?
 
That can help to escape.
 
Consider how good modern society is compared to 100 years ago.
 
And now that I can’t remember shit, I get to reread things I read only 10 or 20 years ago and find new joy in them.
 
We may and do complain, but almost everything is better than it used to be a century ago.
 
Yes, but it is still terrible.
 
2:59 AM
Oh, I never remember much about books I read ten years ago.
@tchrist Or maybe not so terrible. It functions, with faults.
 
Telling tourists from Heaven visiting Purgatory how much nicer it is there than it is in Hell does little to convince them.
It still sucks on an absolute scale.
 
But we are in a sense tourists from Hell, not Heaven.
 
I don’t know.
 
We have good healthcare, good roads, good computers.
 
My mind’s eye of the world and future used to be of Heaven. And now I know that it is not true, and Hell is already here.
 
3:01 AM
Or maybe you're exaggerating.
Hey, I like to complain about governments like noöne else.
 
I’ve had six deaths in six months, including my parent. I’m not exaggerating.
 
But it's still all relative and not so bad.
 
We must bury all we love or suffer them to do the same to us.
There is no way out.
None.
Not suicide.
No way out at all.
 
Yes, your personal tragedies are rather bad. But the world at large is not so bad.
Take some pills, read a novel, and wait till you feel a bit better.
It will happen.
 
3:07 AM
sigh. So I just discovered that the reason my search engine wasn't finding its data archive is that the archive I copied from the test server had spaces in the filename, at the end.
Helpfully, Windows wouldn't let me remove those spaces.
 
@tchrist You're waxing Biblical?
 
or see them.
 
Good night.
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Waaaah that sucks.
Always display extensions!
 
well, they don't have extensions.
 
Oh...
Bad file.
spanks file
But how did those spaces end up at the end of the file name?
 
3:09 AM
I suspect that the code which generated the files didn't trim the spaces from the end of the config file.
and I didn't notice them when I copied them from test because I tarred up the whole parent directory
 
I see.
Tarred up?
Oh, put in a tar file.
 
@MετάEd You have to trap her fully, until she makes that arched back d'oh move and the board refreshes.
3
 
3:27 AM
I think I got the game figured out.
 
3:40 AM
btw @cerb I never replied to your previous q about the macbook air
 
Oh...
 
my position on that is that Apple sometimes makes top-of-the-line hardware that is worth buying on its own merits.
But it's usually so much more expensive that you have to ask yourself if it's worth the premium
But with the macbooks you have flexibility in what apps you run, and even what OS you run.
 
Yeah so it surprised me that the Air was only 20 % more expensive.
 
So the situation isn't as bad as with their phone.
 
Yes.
Is it easy to run Windows on a Mac?
 
3:45 AM
I'm not sure. But I think it's at least possible.
 
But will it work well?
Either way, for the average person, the OS doesn't matter much, I think.
 
But these days the super-thin notebook category is competing with the Windows Tablet category.
 
Yes, Pricewatch gave me some tablets when I searched for specs matching the Air's.
You know what?
I think 90 % of the people who buy Airs don't need the strong CPU.
A good tablet is enough for them.
And it's lighter.
And I actually think most people don't need a full desktop OS either.
By the way, I have the Tetris effect now: these keys are like cat tiles to me. Tap, tap.
I wasn going to go back and delete a word, but then I thought, no, that would be too slow, the cat would escape!
Maybe I need to go to bed...
 
I know!
I still sometime let the cat escape.
How about you?
 
4:00 AM
cat?
 
You haven't played The Game yet?
See star.
 
ah
btw here is a basic review of a samsung ultrabook that has higher resolution than the "retina" macs cnet.com/laptops/samsung-ativ-book-9/4505-3121_7-35796875.html
 
@Cerberus I found that game several years ago and have had it bookmarked at work. I occasionally hit the bookmark accidentally.
Over time, I got better at my strategy.
 
> But at the 3,200x1,800 resolution, desktop mode becomes a hopelessly small landscape of mini-icons and micro-text. In tile-based app mode, however, apps stay the same size but gain more fine detail when optimized (for pictures and text, in most cases).
 
And Reg is right, sometimes you just don't get a fair shake on the beginning dots.
 
4:03 AM
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Sure, many laptops have higher PPIs than Apple's.
@cornbreadninja麵包忍者 Hmm you think so?
 
@Cerberus I'm not sure.
 
Sometimes I feel I have not enough time to build a fence near the side it's walking towards.
 
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Oh, I read about how W8 does not deal with high PPI properly. How about OSX?
 
I got to sleep nao.
Night!
 
4:05 AM
Sleep well nao!
And thanks for the game.
 
@Cerberus It probably does it better. At least, one hopes.
Windows 8 does high PPI just fine in the tablet mode
according to that article
 
Then again, Apple has never made screens with really high PPIs, I think?
 
because all apps in tablet mode are new and programmed according to the new api
 
Sure. So that doesn't count.
 
@Cerberus sure, they have high PPI screens.
 
4:06 AM
I read that Photoshop has unworkably time controls in W8.
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Really?
How many?
 
@Cerberus well, we discussed this before. Windows doesn't support high ppi because of font sizing and stuff.
 
Right.
 
@Cerberus They've had a Retina macbook for at least two revisions now
 
But retina is not high PPI, I'd call that medium...
 
@Cerberus but more accurately, Windows supports it in theory, but no apps work properly when you use the feature.
 
4:07 AM
Ugh.
How much is "retina" (stupid name)?
300 or so?
 
But the new Windows model, "Metro", or whatever it's called, DOES work better with high dpi
 
Right.
 
@Cerberus "retina" is supposed to mean the pixels are invisible under normal viewing conditions.
 
But we want Windows because of the ecosystem and nothing else.
The programs that exist for it.
 
So afaik apple is free to pick a PPI value that fits with their expected viewing distance.
 
4:08 AM
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 That is pretty meaningless...
I think it means something specific even on laptops.
 
@Cerberus no, it's not meaningless at all.
It means that they decide how far away they expect the screen to be from your eyes.
 
Heh.
 
Then they calculate the pixel size at that distance which would be invisible to normal people.
 
Which is, again, a bit meaningless.
 
No, it's pretty well-understood what the minimum arc a human can see is.
Obviously, it varies from person to person.
But they only need a good enough average value.
 
4:12 AM
At any rate, do you think people will ditch Airs for tablets + keyboard stands?
I know someone who is now using, instead of his overprices Air, an Ipad (facepalm) with keyboard stand.
So it's still overpriced, but less so.
That is, it is less overpriced considering what he needs.
It's probably also significantly lighter than an Air.
 
tablets are great for some things and terrible for others. But tablets with keyboards are essentially laptops
 
But less powerful, smaller, and lighter.
 
That's why I bought the Transformer tablet: I figured if I needed to, I could buy the keyboard that transforms it into a laptop
Yeah but most people don't need the power most of the time
 
Exactly.
Which is why my friend is happy with his Ipad + stand.
Text editing, browsing, videos.
 
4:15 AM
He uses it professionally.
But his profession only requires those things, as for 99 % of the people.
Oops! My computer says: 5 minutes to shutdown!
It also beeps.
So I have 5 minutes.
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 My computer will shut down in 2 minutes, so farewell!
 
My Autohotkey script makes me go to bed early.
It's inexorable.
Adieu.
 
 
7 hours later…
11:22 AM
At god
 
11:43 AM
0
A: where to put the comma between two distinct quote?

Lester NublaIt should be: “engaging, patient and extremely helpful”,“very coherent and easy-to-understand” or "clear and straight to the point". You use commas to separate elements, not by a space.

Wut
 
 
1 hour later…
1:13 PM
@Cerberus If we're trying to define words by example, that is a sweater to me (a light sweater).
 
@tchrist It's why we imprison more of our citizens than any other country in the world, both in sheer numbers and as a percentage of the population. It is an industry, sometimes privatized, that sustains itself on human misery.
 
 
3 hours later…
3:49 PM
@Robusto Like the whole poorhouses and workhouses.
Dickensian even.
What do you do in your spare time? — WS2 20 hours ago
@Cerberus Or waning. But that particular passage seemed a more eloquent valedictory response for me last night than anything I could devise on my own.
 
I see.
 

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