hi

hello, it's me

hello hello hello is there anybody in there?

hello darlin' / nice to see you

you say good-bye and i say hello

hello muddah / hello faddah

Wow, that one should be disqualified. Allan Sherman indeed . . .

:(

hello darkness my old friend

Better.

hello i love you / won't you tell me your name

Cornbread.

mmm cornbread with maple syrup

@Robusto Jim Morrison right?

yeah

The End is also a great song

I have to do work things.

Oh you poor thing.

The Doors are good overall

Agreed.

can you imagine Ella singing anything less than perfect?

No.

Sounds so effortless it is almost scary

maybe she was a bot?

probably not very useful ^

pretty good, i usually prefer jazz to classical. This one is pretty ~out~ though.

Listen to the whole thing. It's amazing.

The violinist has such a perfect range of expression for the piece.

ok, will listen to the whole thing, you are throwing some pearls now btw :D

That's all I ever throw.

Do you like Silvestrov?

Stravinsky, nice.

@JohanLarsson Have not heard him. Will listen, though.

I don't know much classical, like the softness of his stuff though. Picked that piece at random. Remember I heard him on the radio once and liked it.

you guys are friends now right?

I tend to overlook softer, subtler stuff.

I go more for stuff with a big dynamic range.

@JohanLarsson Which guys?

This piece is Beethoven plays with quaaludes.

@Robusto you and Cerb, this family must gravitate towards happiness I think.

People with houses: should I convert my existing boiler to natural gas, or replace the entire shebang?

Oh, sure.

We are neither friends nor enemies. We are acquaintances.

*we are family

If there was some big fight, I must have missed it.

@BraddSzonye I too am somewhat sensitive to this.

yep, starred that one

I'm not a huge fan of music that is neither dynamic nor sad, I think.

It can be soft and sad, but not soft and happy.

Interesting.

My favorite “soft” music is downtempo/triphop.

Like...blah blah l'après-midi d'un faune...

That's too vague for me.

But that has strong rhythmic elements. And it's often punctuated with some loudness.

@BraddSzonye Hmm I'm afraid I don't know much about that.

@Cerberus I disagree. I can get there with a very wide range of music. I'm suspicious of people who only listen to one genre.

It's generally very ominous, sometimes sad or bitter. Blends elements of electro/dance, rock, and classical.

@Robusto Well, I wasn't stating a fact, just explaining what my musical ear is less and more sensitive to. It does what it wants, I can't control it.

@Cerberus I thought about this when you wrote soft and happy. Dunno if it is a fit but great song imo.

^ Portishead, Sneaker Pimps.

Massive Attack is another classic of the genre. They did the theme from House, MD.

@Robusto no sound, Sweden broken?

@JohanLarsson I dunno. Is Sweden broken? I can't tell from here.

Try this one.

Sweden was broken, fixed it now

@JohanLarsson I like it. There's still some loudness/"power" in it, and also some sadness.

@JohanLarsson Well done, what did you do? Found the Pirate Bay?

I turned the crappy bluetooth headphones on and off

@Cerberus they are not meant for music, I use them when watching tutorials etc in bed.

@BraddSzonye yep, classic nice. Love the song/voice.

@Robusto no fan, gf would probably like it though.

@JohanLarsson I was putting that out for @Cerb's benefit.

@BraddSzonye Ah I think I know that song, I like it.

@JohanLarsson I didn't known Sweden were plural, but it makes sense. I wonder how you use them for watching tutorials (of what?) in bed, though.

@BraddSzonye you know Lamb, K&D and Tosca I assume.

@Cerberus I rarely make sense :P

Great.

@Robusto Also nice.

@Robusto nice comeback, I must listen to Zappa for a full day some day soon. Don't know him really.

What do you call a set of criteria that all have to be matched?

@Cerberus High-maintenance.

"These criteria are ..."

"These criteria are high-maintenance."

predicate?

@Robusto We are not talking about women, for once.

@JohanLarsson I just need an adjective...

Women are a set of criteria that all must be matched.

like red pants and green top

@Cerberus Mandatory?

Perhaps I shall have to turn it into a clause.

@Cerberus - "Constraints"

Compulsory? Obligatory?

@Robusto The main thing I want to express that you won't pass if you match only one criterion. Mandatory mainly emphasises the meaning already present in criterion.

@TravisJ Hmm still not some kind of opposite to "OR" criteria.

I was thinking inclusive, but meh.

A clause it is, then.

@Cerberus Well, so does "must be matched" then.

@Robusto Yes, so I will have to say must all be matched.

@Cerberus - These criteria are required?

They're all required.

@JohanLarsson Lamb sounds familiar, but I don't know K&D or Tosca.

This is about the definition of "Western".

My definition:

> To me, it is a term for countries that share certain elements of culture, a level of wealth, and a political allegiance with Western Europe, or that historically did so during the second half of the 20th century.

These criteria are mandatory.

Notice and.

He apparently missed and.

@BraddSzonye They are, but I still don't think that points to the AND-ness specifically.

But no matter.

All is good to emphasize that then.

You're talking about a bitwise AND operation.

Boolean. :)

Gotta go.

@Cerberus - Every constraint is mandatory. All criteria must be met. These criteria are without question.

@TravisJ Yeah I had to mention "all criteria".

Okay. I wasn't sure what the context was so I just spouted those :P

I usually deal with input fields and user messages so I guess that is the angle I was considering the most.

@TravisJ And I thank thee!

:)

I think I somehow stubbed against a sensitive spot with Blessed Geek when I used the word Western.

Apparently.

The topic of "Western" is interesting though. It made me wonder, are countries like Haiti "westernized"? I can see both sides

Westernised to some degree, perhaps, but not a Western country in my book.

Countries like South Africa or Singapore are more borderlinish, perhaps.

It's not a very well defined word.

The term is very weighted. I think it is almost too general to be useful because it relies heavily on opinion.

It depends...maybe it is like race.

"The black race" doesn't make much sense genetically, but it can be useful as an imperfect description in certain situations.

I used "Westerner" in the context of "people who use the Latin script".

Yeah, these terms have their place.

I didn't see anything wrong with that use of it.

I couldn't think of a better term. Not that I thought very hard.

haha

European, perhaps, but there is too much trade between Europe and e.g. America.

I think a similar term is Americanization, or as seen recently with Russia, "American Exceptionalism". Very weighted in the eyes of people who would take a semantic issue with the term.

This was about why they use country abbreviations on packaging of European products.

I saw the question, clearly that person got very set on a tangent of the issue.

@TravisJ Hmm weighted in what sense?

@TravisJ Yeah, and he admitted doing so. It's fine with me.

@Cerberus - They tend to generate some sort of knee jerk reaction in people who dislike the topic of the term.

I mean, "Americanization" clearly means "coming to resemble America in some ways"?

And American Exceptionalism is a bit unclear to me, presumably some kind of notion prevalent among certain American officials that their country is somehow "special"?

@Cerberus - Americanization was a term coined in the early 1900's which related to the attempt made to merge cultures in the US into one mainstream culture. American Exceptionalism actually refers to the atypical nature of the system of government in the US and was also from the early 1900s.

@Cerberus Not just officials. Schoolchildren are basically indoctrinated that we are a shiny and special democracy

@TravisJ Okay, so but you could apply the term equally to people living within the USA and outside the USA, right? In both cases, in means "resembling mainstream US culture more", right?

@aediaλ Right, that's kind of funny.

Somehow patriotism is more alive in America than in Europe.

@Cerberus - That would be what you would expect, but it is actually a historically weighted term which references actual policy that was enacted. You could say that someone becoming more American was being Americanized, but it would not have the same meaning per se.

@TravisJ So you wouldn't talk about the Americanization of the Philippines?

(I would.)

That was during the same time period, so that would be accurate. There was policy passed in the government which actually prohibited certain cultural practices.

The US had (has?) a passion for defining things as "savage".

@TravisJ Ok, then how about "the current Americanization of certain elements of British culture"?

@TravisJ You Exceptionalist! All rich countries have that.

Lol

@Cerberus sings Fifty Nifty United States from thirteen original colonies, Fifty Nifty stars on the flag that billows so beautif'ly in the breeze. Each innnnndividual state contributes a quality that is great. Each innnnnndividual state deserves a bow! Let's salute them now!

Haha.

At least it taught me the states in alphabetical order.

I think you know what people in Holland would think of that.

I think we learned it in about 5th grade, around the same time (if not as part of) a play about writing the constitution.

Although we did have a song that was popular at some point.

@Cerberus I don't

@Cerberus - I suppose the context would be important, so that could work. Apparently the use of Americanization has a different definition when used as a reference outside of the US.

We had none of that in school, ever. We only had a few half-hearted attempts at learning a few lines of the national athem.

@TravisJ I don't know, it doesn't refer to any specific location or historical period to me.

Did that change with the recent changes to the royal family?

@aediaλ That makes me think of Schoolhouse Rock.

It is the same as Germanification, Vernederlandsing, Westernisation, etc.

@TravisJ No, it does not refer to anything later than ca. 1600, it's fixed.

Or it isn't supposed to—of course it refers to some 19th-century stuff.

I meant the popular songs :)

Shh! We're Writing the Constitution was the play, I think. Looks like people still use it.

Oh. Well, we have a huge problem with a well-known Orangist song, where stuff rhymes with koningin!

Last time we had a King was in the 19th century.

@MετάEd I was just the wrong age for Schoolhouse Rock.

Holland is one of my favorite countries. Both my grandparents were born there and I have been a number of times.

@aediaλ How is that possible!

I wear orange during the EU cup

@aediaλ I guess it's kind of nice teaching children history...although I'm not sure whether it will be up to date with the latest academic theories.

@TravisJ Haha, that's hilarious.

@MετάEd Wiki sez it stopped airing after 1985 and resumed in 1993.

@aediaλ I didn't know it came back.

I was an original viewer. I'm as old as dirt.

@TravisJ :D!

it is also bedtime in Holland.

@TravisJ This you?

@JohanLarsson No, in Sweden.

I was actually thinking of going out for a late-night run.

Is that weird?

sounds good, weird is usually good. What is the alternative? Conform?

@Cerberus - That is a little over the top, but close :) I think I would probably have found larger glasses.

@TravisJ Of course, of course.

@JohanLarsson Eww!

@Cerberus elaborate?

Conformity is bad, right?

@MετάEd I'm sure I saw a little when it resumed, but it's not a hugely familiar childhood touchstone for me. By 1993 I would also have been able to read pretty well and likely stayed in my room reading on weekend mornings or deferred to my younger brother on tv choices as long as I got my huge stack o' library books <--nerdy child

@aediaλ Welcome to the club.

Kindly keep in mind our club motto: Clean Mind, Clean Body. (Take Your Pick.)

Schoolhouse Rock! is nearly as old as me.

@Cerberus ok I'm with you now :)

Yay!

Not all conformity is bad, though...

I agree.

> On the weekend of October 26 — the 12th anniversary of the signing of the USA PATRIOT Act — thousands of people from across the political spectrum will unite in Washington, D.C. to take a stand against unconstitutional surveillance. Please join EFF and coalition partners for grassroots training and citizen lobbying on October 25th and a historic rally and petition delivery on October 26th.

I don't know whether this is conformity or the opposite.

@Cerberus That whole argument with Blessed Geek is bizarre.

A lot of people tried to stop it from being passed in the first place. It was not a popular law. There is a lot of badness in it.

@BraddSzonye I think he presumed some kind of arrogant Western subtext behind it...

@TravisJ Yeah maybe senators will wake up now that it's starting to affect business...

By the way, it's entirely reasonable to refer to a character set as “Western.”

Although more properly it would be “Western European.”

Distinguishes it from Greek and Cyrillic.

AMS-IX (world's largest internet exchange) wants to branch out to the USA, but most of its members will probably vote against it because of the Patriot Act.

@BraddSzonye I have seen it labelled as such on computers, yes, although I probably wouldn't use that myself.

I think Latin is more exact, Western is a bit meh.

The same character set is also called “Latin 1.”

Right.

Latin is good.

or “Latin 15” with a Euro sign.

Huh?

Oh.

Er wait no that's not exactly right.

ISO/IEC 8859-15 is actually called “Latin 9.”

Okay, I managed to get two rooms to talk about Latin at the same time. I win!

It's all Greek to me.

Graeca sunt, non leguntur?

A while back I ran across an article discussing “It's Greek to me” in different languages. A surprising number of languages use exactly that expression (with Greek).

Det är rena grekiskan in Swedish

@BraddSzonye Ah, I think I saw a table of that once.

Or some kind of diagram.