English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

Criggie

1:10 AM

rockoons

Ryder is not Rude.

1:42 AM

🦝🦝🦝

🥌🥌🥌

🚀🚀🚀

CowperKettle

6:07 AM

How to Pronounce Worcestershire

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@Cerberus "And the rockets' red glare, bombs bursting in air, gave proof in the night that Shiva was there".

CowperKettle

9:15 AM

jlliagre

Complaint tablet to Ea-nāṣir

The complaint tablet to Ea-nāṣir (UET V 81) is a clay tablet that was sent to the ancient city-state Ur, written c. 1750 BCE. It is a complaint to a merchant named Ea-nāṣir, from a customer named Nanni. It is currently kept in the British Museum. Written in Akkadian cuneiform, it may be the oldest known written customer complaint. From 2015 onwards, the tablet's content and Ea-nāṣir in particular gained popularity as an internet meme. == Description == The tablet is 11.6 centimetres (4+9⁄16 in) high, 5 cm (1+15⁄16 in) wide, 2.6 cm (1 in) thick, and slightly damaged. == Content == The t...

Alex Reid

9:43 AM

@CowperKettle I think that people who live in the blue zone dream of moving to the green one. Look at the broadcast worldviewstream.com/city-traffic-in-norilsk, the temperature is already 2 degrees Celsius.

Criggie

10:14 AM

@CowperKettle "wooster" fight me.

CowperKettle

12:04 PM

@AlexReid Yes, in Norilsk you can buy a flat for a trifle, a lot of people has moved out

@AlexReid My hometown Noyabrsk is almost 1000 km further south than Norilsk

Live webcams in Noyabrsk tvmig.ru/kamery-noyabrska/kamery-na-prospekte-mira

Norillag

Norillag, Norilsk Corrective Labor Camp (Russian: Норильлаг, Норильский ИТЛ) was a gulag labor camp set by Norilsk, Krasnoyarsk Krai, Russia and headquartered there. It existed from June 25, 1935 to August 22, 1956. == History == Initially, the Norillag labor force was responsible for the construction of the Norilsk mining-metallurgic complex and for mining copper and nickel. Its activities gradually expanded into virtually all economical functions of the region, from fishing to "reconstruction of the house where lived Comrade I.V. Stalin in exile". Starting from 1,200 inmates in 1935, its numbers...

I don't know who I am.

Hello, everyone.

If rich, I would buy you a car. Does this sentence mean (If I were a rich, I would buy you a car). I understand it is so. But why is the subject omitted in this sentence? Can we say, it's an elliptical clause or structure?

@tchrist Can you put some light on it?

@alphabet Can you?

My respected friends, I have seen such structures, but are they really elliptical clauses?

@Robusto

tchrist

12:21 PM

@Idon'tknowwhoIam. Stop pinging people directly. It's like begging, and it's dispruptive.

I don't know who I am.

Why is it like begging if it comes to learning?

tchrist

If someone has time and cares to response, they will do so.

I don't know who I am.

I don't consider it begging.

tchrist

Because it's disruptive and needy. It is not how chat works. It is too demanding of others.

Stop pinging individuals in chat directly. This is an official warning from a site moderator, and I mean it.

I don't know who I am.

Alright! If it's an official warning from a site. But we are here to discuss and resolve issues regarding language and English.

tchrist

12:24 PM

Yes, and you are welcome to ask. But you are not welcome to disturb people.

I don't know who I am.

Alright! If so, let's move.

tchrist

I'm at work. I don't have time for this right now.

I don't know who I am.

People work here to support and help others.

That's why this site was created.

Okay.

Ryder is not Rude.

Volunteer free time.

tchrist

Listen to me. You. Will. Not. Be. So. Pushy. And. Demanding. Of. Particular. Persons'. Time. FULL STOP OVER AND OUT

I don't know who I am.

12:25 PM

But I expect positive response from people here. If they think asking questions are like disturbing them then this site should be banned.🥲

tchrist

@Idon'tknowwhoIam. this is disturbing

@Idon'tknowwhoIam. you are pinging people

@Idon'tknowwhoIam. you are not asking questions in the room

Ryder is not Rude.

Just stop.

I don't know who I am.

Well, I don't like to disturb others.

tchrist

@Idon'tknowwhoIam. you are waking people up

I don't know who I am.

Well.

tchrist

12:26 PM

@Idon'tknowwhoIam. Ask what questions you will, but no more pinging.

I don't know who I am.

Alright.

Ryder is not Rude.

So, what is your question?

tchrist

@Idon'tknowwhoIam. it is super rude to yank people's chains.

I don't know who I am.

@RyderisnotRude. already asked.

Ryder is not Rude.

Askaway

I don't know who I am.

12:28 PM

@RyderisnotRude.

If rich, I would buy you a car. Does this sentence mean (If I were a rich, I would buy you a car). I understand it is so. But why is the subject omitted in this sentence? Can we say, it's an elliptical clause or structure?

Ryder is not Rude.

It is a simple if-then statement.

I don't know who I am.

@RyderisnotRude. What kind of clause is it?

Ryder is not Rude.

Why do you need to know that? Your interpretation is correct.

jlliagre

@Idon'tknowwhoIam. If native, I would answer your question.

But I'm not.

Ryder is not Rude.

If rich, then I would buy you a car.

I don't know who I am.

12:34 PM

I am non-native speaker here. @jlliagre

@RyderisnotRude. I have to clear up some doubts about it.

Why "then"? @RyderisnotRude. it's a conditional elliptical clause. So, why do you need to add "then"?

Ryder is not Rude.

You got the meaning, right?

jlliagre

@Idon'tknowwhoIam. Neither am I.

Ryder is not Rude.

You need the comma.

If x, y.

Conrado

If I had some potatoes, I would cook me a goose...

.....if I had a goose!

Ryder is not Rude.

If x, then y.

You don't need the "then."

2 mins ago, by Ryder is not Rude.

If x, y.

Or y if x.

If x, then y.

If x, y.

I don't know who I am.

12:43 PM

@RyderisnotRude. there's a comma in my original sentence.

Ryder is not Rude.

Yes. And that is perfect.

💯✅

jlliagre

@Idon'tknowwhoIam. If I were a rich, should probably be either If I were rich, or If I were a rich man, or similar.

Ryder is not Rude.

If x, then y.

If x, y.

I don't know who I am.

@jlliagre Yes. But I am trying to know about elliptical conditional clauses.

@RyderisnotRude. I want you to explain something to me about clauses.

jlliagre

@Idon'tknowwhoIam. I know, that was an off topic comment.

Ryder is not Rude.

12:51 PM

You could try and say "please"?

4

I don't know who I am.

Well, I am not satisfied. Thanks, anyway.

alphabet

1:33 PM

@Idon'tknowwhoIam. Yes, but (a) there's no good reason to ping one specific person instead of the whole room, and (b) unlike with the main site this isn't primarily a Q&A forum.

Mitch

@RyderisnotRude. For those who need a playbook, @Idon'tknowwhoIam. is asking about the sentence "If rich, then I'd buy you a car" and if 'if rich' is elliptical (some things being dropped) or if it is a natural way to say it.

alphabet

Asking questions on ELU and ELL is fine. But, while there's certainly no rule banning asking questions here, as in any public chat room you can't expect answers to them.

Mitch

@Idon'tknowwhoIam. I'm not sure why people are getting so riled up about being pinged. I mean I understand why they might be a little miffed being pinged out of the blue when it's not something they care about (it's like getting a spam email but socially required to answer). But anyway, yeah that usual culture here is you usually don't ping anybody if you have a new question.

But to your sentence "If rich, I'd buy a car" (removing some unnecessaries).

Yes, it means the same as "If I were rich, I'd buy a car"

(you never say "If I were _a rich_, ..." you always have a noun if you start off with 'a'. you'd always say 'a rich _person_').

Trying to think about it hard, 'If I were rich' is not an ellipsis of 'If I were a rich person', it's very different syntax:
"If I were {adjective phrase}..." - "If I were -rich-..."
"If I were {noun phrase}..." - "If I were -a rich person-..."

Conrado

@Idon'tknowwhoIam. I tried, and I tried, and I tried...

The Rolling Stones - (I Can't Get No) Satisfaction (Official Lyric Video)

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Mitch

Now to compare:

"If I were {adjective phrase}..." - "If I were -rich-..."
"If {adjective phrase}..." - "If rich..."

The 2nd one doesn't specify who is rich and should be filled in by context.

Did I say I was thinking hard? I can't remember.

Anyway, I don't think it matters if you call it ellipsis or not, if you are are dropping 'I were'. Think of it as two ways to say the same thing.

Conrado

1:47 PM

The 2nd one is filled in by force from the subject of the second clause.

Mitch

@Conrado Power linguistics.

Conrado

It also works with when .

Mitch

"Linguistic power grows out of the barrel of a contextually deanaphorized theta role"

Conrado

ELU chatroom users may get riled when excessively pinged without context.

When excessively pinged without context, ELU chatroom users may get riled.

Mitch

@Conrado "When I was rich"?

@Conrado What about "When they are pinged..."?

Conrado

1:53 PM

Then the they refers to the subject, expanding to "... when ELU chatroom users are excessively pinged..."

Oh.

I don't really understand it.

But you can't do it with how or with why .

Mitch

@Conrado Those both take full sentences as objects. The primary question is 'If {adjective phrase}...' a transformation by deletion ('ellipsis') of 'If {NP} {copula adjective phrase}...'

In other news...

Rather, in actual news...

did anything happen last night?

I sensed a disturbance in the Force.

Conrado

Ha.

Mitch

Millions of cat ladies sighing...

Conrado

> U.S. stock futures slipped and the dollar edged lower in early Asian trading on Wednesday as Republican Donald Trump and Democratic Vice President Kamala Harris faced each other for the first time, with some analysts saying Harris put in a slightly stronger performance. Reuters

Were they betting on the debate?

Mitch

@Conrado I think you know the answer to that.

M.A.R.

2:04 PM

-5

Q: Is it true that India has given Buddha to the world?

India has given 'Buddha' to the world, not 'Yuddha': PM Modi in Austria Prime Minister Narendra Modi on Friday told the world leaders that India gave the world 'Buddh' and not 'Yuddh'. Highlighting India's contribution towards global peace and harmony, the prime minister said that India's gift...

india

Conrado

I mean, I can understand betting at the horse races, but this I can't.

M.A.R.

I did not receive any Buddha

Mitch

@M.A.R. I'm sorry.

M.A.R.

@Mitch you took all the Buddha didn't you? Next time I'm hiding the jar in some high cabinet

Conrado

> “It was light on specifics from either side and I think that those who adhere to Trump are going to believe that he won the debate and those who are loyal to Democrats will think that she won the debate.

Truer words have never been spoken

M.A.R.

2:07 PM

Oh the debate!

So what happened? Did she skewer Trump? Or just more inconsequential political rhetoric?

Conrado

As opposed to consequential political rhetoric?

M.A.R.

@Conrado I think Trump's fanbase have sufficiently demonstrated that Trump has always won even and especially those times he hasn't

@Conrado yeah well, those are called gaffes

Every gaffe breaks your combo and deduces 10 points, so the other candidate would be closer to a high score

Mitch

@M.A.R. I have the Buddha nature of a cat. I can easily reach the highest shelf -and- push it out smashing on the floor then lick my paw, stare at you like there was a slight breeze in the air.

@M.A.R. She very successfully goaded Trump into repeating batshittery. A lot.

Conrado

@Mitch Does he need goading to do that?

Mitch

@Conrado Touché.

Oh and he wasn't noticeably fluorescently orange.

So I think they won together.

Conrado

2:16 PM

> The Harris-Trump debate does not seem to be having a major impact on markets so far, which aligns with the relatively low volatility expectations heading into the event...

Mitch

I was surprised that...

Vikas

Pathetic (Copilot)

Conrado

I wonder if an LLM wrote that article at Reuters.

Mitch

I was surprised that all the European news had as their first story a summary of the debate.

Conrado

Yes, it would have made more sense to cover a horse race, as I said...

The debate could have gone on the "social life" page.

Mitch

2:19 PM

In the US, watching the debate is only for wannabe news nerds, ie news nerds watch S-SPAN and Face the Nation on Sundays, and wannabe news nerds who would rather be watching Friends but the TV is on and I'm sitting down and don't want to change the channel.

@Vikas Those are reasonable responses by a hunan trying to do those things and Copilot seems to have successfully patterned its responses using similar character strings. That we interpret its responses as meaning that understands that it has created and shown the image wrongly is all on -us-. It is -our- interpretation of those symbols on the screen and has little (or no) relation to actual events in that screen (creating and displaying an image).

@Conrado It -should- be informative and used as an informative medium, but I've heard that in general the debates make little (or no) difference in polling numbers.

GratefulDisciple

@Mitch Since my primary language doesn't have tenses, not to mention subjunctive mood, in colloquial conversation I tend to say "If I'm rich, I will buy a car". While I understand it's not a universal replacement, would you think it's acceptable? One example where the subjunctive form is preferred is for a segue to talking about a rich friend buying something else.

M.A.R.

@Mitch well, that wasn't true about Biden

Mitch

@M.A.R. True. That was the exception I was thinking of.

@GratefulDisciple Though I can find small things to quibble about "If I'm rich, I will buy a car", I probably wouldn't notice any problems if spoken out loud.

"If I'm rich..." could sound a little funny because it is very much about the present and semantically (not grammatically) the listener would wonder "How can that be an 'if'? Don't you know if you're rich or not?"

But then maybe your rich uncle died and you're on the way to the reading of the will and you don't know yet if he left you a lot of money. Then it'd make total semantic sense.

"S-SPAN"? I meant "C-SPAN". Either way it is boring.

Conrado

2:34 PM

@Mitch Or someone asked Grateful: "What will you do when you retire?"

GratefulDisciple

@Mitch (sigh) such is the challenge for non native speakers, but in formal writing fortunately there are proof reader/ copy editor. Being able to answer authoritatively "does it sound right" seems to be the elusive but rightful possession of an LLM trained brain since birth, so my consolation is in focusing on ideas and diction when writing.

Mitch

@Conrado I'm doing my darnedest to find a graph I saw last night while watching the debate showing the betting odds of Trump vs Harris 'winning' the debate. And the graph showed them about equal at the very beginning but shooting up in favor of Harris quickly and staying high for the whole time.

But unfortunately i can't find that graph this morning.

@Conrado Yes.

@GratefulDisciple Yes.

But...

alphabet

@GratefulDisciple English doesn't really have a subjunctive mood either. That sentence is grammatically correct, but semantically a bit odd, since it suggests either that you don't know whether you're rich or that you may suddenly become rich when it comes time to buy a car.

M.A.R.

@GratefulDisciple nah. You just have to be okay with being confidently incorrect, like I am

Mitch

1) There is less and less proof reading/copy editing being done. In academia I'd almost say -none-. You type it up, you better get it right before you submit. Maybe magazines and newspapers and online news has them still.

GratefulDisciple

2:40 PM

@alphabet Would you say that in a conversation it's more natural to say: "If I have money I want to buy a car?"

@M.A.R. Hehe, I like that attitude. Just say it and let the others deal with it.

jlliagre

Fiddler on the roof - If I were a rich man (with subtitles)

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alphabet

@GratefulDisciple It would be more idiomatic to say "If I have enough money, I want to buy a car"--if I understand your meaning right.

Mitch

@GratefulDisciple 2) LLMs really do seem to capture syntax really well. I haven't seen any studies to substantiate this yet (theoretically it seems impossible (ie PAC learning theorems state that it can't)) but I've never seen a grammatical error (since GPT3 that is).

GratefulDisciple

@Mitch When my friend wrote her dissertation she needed to hire a proof reader at her own expense, so yes, that makes sense.

@alphabet That does sound more natural, even to me

Mitch

@GratefulDisciple Trying to maintain everything as much as possible there: "If I get some money, I want to buy a car".

People who care about style (school teachers, writers) would say that -having money- isn't really a causative (via the 'if') of -wanting- things. But that sentence would be totally fine colloquially.

tchrist

2:48 PM

Millions of singing ladies cat.
Millions of ladies singing cat.
Millions of singing cat ladies.
Millions of cat singing ladies.
Millions of ladies cat singing.
Millions of cat ladies singing.

@Mitch Is that the if that means whenever?

GratefulDisciple

@Mitch I think my trouble is that there are connotations not existing in English when translating word for word from Indonesian, thus unconsciously this still affects me. I believe that's how Bible scholars detect Hebraism in the Greek used by some NT writers too.

Mitch

@tchrist I meant 'if' as 'if' but 'whenever' would work similarly there (in that it would have the same style/pragmatic problems).

alphabet

@Mitch This is just the use of "if" to express relevance rather than conditional truth, as in "I'll be in town tomorrow if you want to visit."

Presumably your desire to buy a car exists regardless of how much money you have, but it's only "relevant" if you have enough money.

Mitch

@GratefulDisciple Oh sure. I'm surprised translation is ever possible at all beyond 'pandas are cute'

alphabet

@GratefulDisciple I think pretty much all foreign language speakers have to deal with this.

Indeterminacy of translation

The indeterminacy of translation is a thesis propounded by 20th-century American analytic philosopher W. V. Quine. The classic statement of this thesis can be found in his 1960 book Word and Object, which gathered together and refined much of Quine's previous work on subjects other than formal logic and set theory. The indeterminacy of translation is also discussed at length in his Ontological Relativity. Crispin Wright suggests that this "has been among the most widely discussed and controversial theses in modern analytical philosophy". This view is endorsed by Hilary Putnam, who states that...

Mitch

2:55 PM

@alphabet haha 'gavagai'

it's a rabbit.

GratefulDisciple

@alphabet Yup. It's comforting that I'm in a large company worldwide of those who speak English as a second language.

tchrist

@GratefulDisciple Or even in the Latin Vulgate. The construction with an active present participle of some verb followed immediately by that same verb inflected into the perfect/preterite is just such an Hebraism. Consider Psalms 39:2: Expectans expectavi Dominum et intendit mihi. Hebrew does that. It's a bit weird even in Latin let alone in English.

alphabet

@GratefulDisciple Something like 3/4 of English speakers are non-native speakers, though it may depend on how proficient you need to be to qualify as a speaker of English. Granted, I think a fairly large number of native speakers would fail the TOEFL.

Mitch

Jan 5, 2023 at 3:45, by Mitch

It's the same anger I feel when I'm sitting outside and a rabbit comes and starts nibbling on some flowers. I am so angry that they think I'm so harmless they can just walk right up to their flower buffet and eat without worrying about that lump sitting there.

alphabet

@Mitch Are we sure that Elmer Fudd's "wabbit" really means "rabbit"? Is it restricted to ones that can talk?

GratefulDisciple

3:00 PM

@tchrist I haven't even imagined how native Latin speakers, let's say around Jerome / Augustine time would deal with that translation. But appreciating such diverse result of English translations today (and that technical commentary writers provide their iwn translations) the same issue must have faced them too.

Mitch

@alphabet Pretty sure. Not totally sure of course, there's always some doubt. But in the end, pretty sure.

Or...

Nope, pretty sure.

alphabet

@GratefulDisciple I recently learned about The Message, an attempt to translate the Bible into modern, colloquial, informal English. It's...strange.

GratefulDisciple

@alphabet Really? TOEFL is not that hard. I like the IELTS exam much better (which I had to take when immigrating to Canada), since they separate the scores: oral interview, writing, reading and grammar.

Mitch

@GratefulDisciple I would totally read St. Jerome's Vulgate, if it were then translated into the style of Jerome K. Jerome.

alphabet

@GratefulDisciple I don't actually know, but the state of public education in parts of this country is absolutely awful and I'm sure there are places where you can graduate high school with almost no reading comprehension abilities.

Mitch

3:05 PM

"In the beginning there was... What Ho! Old bean! a lot of sordid family goings on... oh that's just not right! Anyone for to spot me a tenner for the dog races next week?"

tchrist

You can tell from what I wrote that I was pronouncing Hebraism as /(h)əˈbrejɪz(ə)m/ in my mind. Apparently the Brie Tishers stress the first syllable. Oops.

Never nice to tish your brie.

GratefulDisciple

@alphabet The Message is a very free translation, more like a paraphrase with embellishments, which would have made professional translators squirmed. It's great for "idea to idea" translation. NLT is a lot more faithful as a smaller unit "thought to thought" translation, ensuring some consistency in translating technical terms.

tchrist

Unless it's weeping. Then it's okay to offer it a tissue.

GratefulDisciple

@Mitch British colloquialism is so endearing. It's so satisfying to read PG Wodehouse and to see Wooster realized in real life by Hugh Laurie.

Gotta go. TTY 'all later.

Mitch

@GratefulDisciple Yeah that was great... I've seen the Blandings TV series and ... not as good.

> Can you rewrite the first 10 verses of the New International Version of the Bible in the style of Jerome K Jerome (author of Three Men in a Boat)?

A Jerome K. Jerome-esque Paraphrase of the First 10 Verses of Genesis

Well, it all started, you see, with a bit of a mess. There was this place, a big, empty nothing, and it was a bit of a bore, if you ask me. No one around, no noise, just a whole lot of... nothing.

Then, this God bloke, who was probably a bit lonely, decided to give it a go. He said, "Let there be light," and lo and behold, there was light. It was a bit of a shock, to be ho…

Not bad. I was entertained for a couple minutes.

What I did find was that ChatGPT seems not to work for me now... ie the webpage shows some UI but not all, and it just doesn't respond after input.

And Claude works fine, UI wise, but says...

> I apologize, but I cannot rewrite or reproduce copyrighted material like Bible verses, even in a different style. Doing so could potentially infringe on copyright.

I'm no lawyer but ... does the Bible have copyright on it? Surely not KJV. But NIV?

Did I mention I'd also watch a musical comedy version of the drama "The Crucible"? (the one about the Salem Witch Trials and the hangings and stone pressings and you find out it was a revenge prank by two teens)

I mean it'd have to have some good songs.

🎼Toe tappin' 🎶 to the neck stretchin' 🎵

Mitch

3:43 PM

OK I tried that in Claude and it came up with something. It wasn't very good so I won't reproduce here. But, like a poodle walking on its hind legs, it's not done well but I'm impressed it's done at all.

MetaEd

4:03 PM

morning, campers

CowperKettle

4:35 PM

@Mitch You should check out the LOLCat Bible Translation Project

Oh hai. In teh beginnin Ceiling Cat maded teh skiez An da Urfs, but he did not eated dem. Da Urfs no had shapez An haded dark face, An Ceiling Cat rode invisible bike over teh waterz. At start, no has lyte. An Ceiling Cat sayz, i can haz lite? An lite wuz.

CowperKettle

4:48 PM

> "In our study, we realized that our brains are constantly progressing through active states defined by these LFPs. It is as if our brains are constantly playing through various options for what might happen next, even if we are not doing or perceiving anything in particular and not receiving any external stimuli at that moment in time," says Dr. Krauss.

medicalxpress.com/news/…

> .. Dr. Krauss continues, "Even if there is not much traffic and the car is only driving straight ahead on the highway, it would be beneficial for the AI to be considering in the background which traffic incidents could occur to which it may potentially have to react."

Okay, so brain-inspired cars will be constantly imagining bad things that could happen. What possibly could go wrong?

Cars wil be undergoing psychotherapy for anxiety and panic disorder

Conrado

5:17 PM

@Mitch I think the NIV has copyright held by some multinational...

But that part about being concerned about copyright smacks of pharisaical levels of hypocrisy.

A bit rich, coming from chatgpt.

Oh, sorry, that was Claude.

I don't know their levels of respect for original work.

MetaEd

6:48 PM

@Mitch wonder how it would do the style of Douglas Adams ...

MetaEd

7:14 PM

"Big thieves are ruthless in punishing little thieves." ---Diogenes

Vikas

7:50 PM

@Mitch 😮

Robusto

Wordle 1,180 3/6

⬛⬛🟩🟨⬛
🟩⬛⬛🟨⬛
🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩

MetaEd

Wordle 1,180 4/6

🟨⬛🟨⬛🟨
🟨🟨🟨⬛⬛
🟩🟨🟨⬛🟨
🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩

Wordle 1,181 4/6

🟨⬛🟩🟨⬛
⬛🟩🟩🟩⬛
⬛🟩🟩🟩🟩
🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩

jlliagre

8:13 PM

Wordle 1,180 4/6

⬛⬛🟨⬛⬛
⬛⬛🟨🟨⬛
🟨⬛🟨🟨🟨
🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩

#WhenTaken #197 (11.09.2024)

I scored 761/1000 🎉

1️⃣ 📍 20.8 metres - 🗓️ 8 yrs - ⚡ 189 / 200
2️⃣ 📍 152 km - 🗓️ 34 yrs - ⚡ 94 / 200
3️⃣ 📍 99 km - 🗓️ 13 yrs - ⚡ 171 / 200
4️⃣ 📍 77 km - 🗓️ 26 yrs - ⚡ 127 / 200
5️⃣ 📍 195 km - 🗓️ 9 yrs - ⚡ 180 / 200

https://whentaken.com
Quite bad with the years :-(

I ate once in #1 Brasserie but I'm not in the picture :-)

Cerberus

@jlliagre This is not what I'm used to seeing from you!

jlliagre

@Cerberus I know, but I'm nevertheless pretty satisfied with the distances.

Cerberus

Those look pretty close, none is really far.

jlliagre

I got all the countries.

Cerberus

Impressive!

Robusto

8:28 PM

Daily Octordle #961
4️⃣5️⃣
6️⃣🕚
7️⃣8️⃣
🕛9️⃣
Score: 62

Cerberus

@CowperKettle Very much à propos—your own composition?

Robusto

What finally turned me off to WhenTaken was that one where they have Indian nuns (with the same habit as Mother Theresa) and the reality was on a different continent. Geezis, how can we trust any of their "clues"?

They have a new game, btw. I played it today and failed, but it's a more interesting game for me. It's one thing to name countries that you see, and quite another to connect countries you have to visualize in a vacuum, connecting from start country to end country.

jlliagre

@Robusto Spoiler

Robusto

@jlliagre He could easily have been on the "obvious" continent.

And what, may I ask, does a Brazilian look like? They are as mixed as we are in the US.

Daily Sequence Octordle #961
3️⃣5️⃣
6️⃣8️⃣
9️⃣🔟
🕚🕛
Score: 64

jlliagre

8:44 PM

@Robusto Sure, that was just an impression. That might well be an American soldier too. That wasn't in the US though, even if CNN is there, these vehicles are less likely to be seen there.

Robusto

In any case, I'm not going to waste any more time on that game.

jlliagre

Too bad.

I still like it. There is just sometimes a large part of hasard.

alphabet

Sep. 11, 2024

T I G H T R O P E
✅ ✅ ✅ ✅ ✅ ✅ ✅ ✅ ✅ 🎉

My Score: 2390

Ok, this one was just ridiculously easy if you're from the US, and incredibly unfair otherwise.

Robusto

Sep. 11, 2024

T I G H T R O P E
✅ ✅ ✅ ✅ ✅ ✅ ✅ ✅ ✅ 🎉

My Score: 2300

jlliagre

@alphabet I'm on the otherwise side.

Sep. 11, 2024

T I G H T R O P E
✅ ✅ 💔 ✅ ✅ ✅ 💔 ✅ 💔 🤕

My Score: 1260

GratefulDisciple

8:55 PM

@Conrado Good article about why modern Bible translations have copyright. TL;DR: good translations cost money, but most modern translation's copyright page include a license to quote a generous number of verses without permission (NIV allows 500). Another reason I once read is to protect the integrity of the translation.

So ChatGPT is wrong. @Mitch Maybe if you simply copy and paste from BibleGateway ChatGPT will be none the wiser.

@Mitch So I did this query "Can you paraphrase the following text in the style of Jerome K. Jerome, who is the author of "Three Men in a Boat"? The text is "... [Genesis 1:1-10 without the verse numbers]...". :

> In the beginning, when there was absolutely nothing to speak of—just a vast expanse of nothingness so deep and profound that one could almost lose one’s way in it—God decided it was high time for a bit of order. And so, with a grand flourish, He fashioned the heavens and the earth. At first, I must admit, it was rather a bleak affair. The earth was shapeless, a sort of muddle without rhyme or reason, wrapped in darkness so thick it could make even the bravest soul feel quite out of sorts. Meanwhile, the Spirit of God was hovering about, considering what to do with this great, watery mess.

How was it? I'll need to read Three Men in a Boat one day.

Then I prompted ChatGPT "Can you do the same but imitating the style of speech of P.G. Wodehouse's character, Bertie Wooster?" and here come the result:

> Right ho, let me see if I can give it the old Bertie Wooster touch!

So, picture the scene, if you will. At the very start of things, when there wasn’t much to write home about, God decides to roll up His sleeves and knock together the heavens and the earth. Now, I have to say, the earth was looking rather on the bleak side—more of a shapeless, watery jumble, with a sort of gloom that hung about like Aunt Agatha in one of her darker moods. God, however, was hovering over it all in a purposeful manner, clearly plotting something big.

jlliagre

britannica.com/quiz/where-on-earth-is-that

britannica.com/quiz/dutch-yiddish-japanese-or-hindi-quiz

Robusto

9:17 PM

I should have gotten the one I missed. Brain fart.

Not bad. Muffed one I should have gotten.

I hate timed tests like this, where you feel you have to rush.

Mitch

9:37 PM

@CowperKettle 'Ceiling Cat' makes me think of a cat that got a little hyper and is now somehow stuck to the ceiling, rather than one of the all powerful, feared, paternalistic sun deity of the Mediterranean.

Maybe that's me.

@Conrado well, it's just spitting out similar text to what it has seen before. But as a non-LLM I think seeing the words 'copyright' and 'Bible' together gives that uncomfortable clash.

@MetaEd It would probably be self-aware enough to 'say this is ludicrous' and stop about 3 verses in.

MetaEd

@Mitch like the end of I Like Traffic Lights

Mitch

@GratefulDisciple looks sideways

I've copied a number of verses from there, but surely not 500. and only over the years not all at once.

@GratefulDisciple That and its sequel "Something something bicycles somethety Germany something"

Conrado

Perhaps the API call counter resets every January, and that's why you've escaped prosecution.

On the other hand, if you copied them manually, perhaps you are more responsible, and should be reported.

Mitch

@MetaEd I had to look that up.

@Conrado something about stones and throwing and being first

It's not like I'm trying to make money off it.

Conrado

"You wouldn't download a car, would you?"

Well, I'd certainly have a try at it!

Mitch

9:51 PM

@Conrado With advanced 3d printing, maybe!

CowperKettle

10:16 PM

alphabet

10:37 PM

Dec 16, 2023 at 6:13, by alphabet

I mean, not that my family has had a formal conversation about how "we do not marry our cousins here." But we didn't need to, because...that should be fairly obvious.

GratefulDisciple

10:54 PM

@CowperKettle Wow, didn't know that. It must be harrowing for him whenever something grievous happened to their 10 children:

> Whenever they fell ill, he feared that they might have inherited weaknesses from inbreeding due to the close family ties he shared with his wife and cousin, Emma Wedgwood. He examined inbreeding in his writings, contrasting it with the advantages of outcrossing in many species.

GratefulDisciple

11:19 PM

My heart goes to suffering parents, regardless of their belief. Has anyone watched Creation (2009)? Some big names starring: Paul Bettany & Jennifer Connelly (who are husband and wife in real life!), Jeremy Northam, Toby Jones, Benedict Cumberbatch.

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