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12:37 AM
@jlliagre Also, de facto, which room this.
We should discuss that more often.
Who are we really?
Deep in our bones.
But also whether our external appearances match that inner being.
If they are different, is that literally a lie, or is it simply a fault? Or even a survival skill? Or frankly...magical thinking?
Cripes. "Which room this is."
I was one 'is' away from this generation's soul.
Back to digging ditches for me
@jlliagre ^ Why I got an 86 on Sequence.
@Robusto You should try Tetris.
@Mitch which room this puzzled me but I thought that was a literary turn I wasn't aware of.
1:32 AM
@jlliagre It could have been. But not from Mitch. He doesn't do fancy.
> Fourteen Jordanian pilgrims died as they performed rituals related to the hajj, a holy trip to Mecca in Saudi Arabia that Muslims are encouraged to take once in their lives .. In Mecca, temperatures reached nearly 110 degrees Fahrenheit on Sunday .. An additional 17 pilgrims were missing
Well good thing they came from a hot country. Otherwise there will have surely been more deaths and spontaneous combustions.
@tchrist But at least they went straight to paradise.
I suddenly came face to face to face with a bull moose yesterday. I'm lucky to have escaped mayhem and murder.
@Robusto Yeah, that "once in a lifetime" stipulation. Cutting it rather close, though.
@tchrist Out for a walk?
@Robusto So to speak.
I was up in Indian Peaks Wilderness, doing the Fourth of July trail, which starts just below treeline and ends above it. Where it opened up to a really cool mountainside of avalanche lilies following the retreating snowfields, I paused to take shots of it. Little did I know that just behind me ten or fifteen yards away was a young bull moose chowing down. But that wasn't the close enounter.
I got away quickly, then took shots of him from like fifty yards away from him. I then moved seriously up the trail to put maybe 150 yards between us. Also trees. But unbeknownst to me he had silently followed me along the trail. So once I tried to sneak back to see if he'd moved off, he and I came nose to nose in a twisty part of the trail that goes through dense willow just now leafing out at that elevation.
Eeeek !
Did you survive ??
1:46 AM
Our faces were like five feet apart. That means his face was closer to my face than it was to his own tail.
He was a youngling, perhaps two or three years old. But still male, and therefore afraid of nothing and ready to do you harm if you so much as look at him wrong. Maybe 800 or 900 pounds, I guess. Not over 1,000. Later on the way back I also spotted a great old moose, much larger, lying down for a rest. He was at the top of their weight range, so like 14 or 15 hundred pounds, if not worse.
Scary!
Yes, very scary. These are not deer, not even elk, which both have a different disposition. This was a moose, and male.
That's the giant one I saw right at the end.
That was at least I saw from a safe distance.
I've never ever been only five feet away from a moose before. It didn't cause primordial panic from my reptile brain like suddenly finding myself that close to a puma once did, but it scared the hell out of me because I know they can and will kill you with no real reason or warning.
That's not the case with deer, and mostly not the case with elk. Although an elk easily could do so, they likely aren't going to save by misadventure. But moose are mean.
Thing is the moose followed you, which is different to suicide-tourists following the animal.
2:02 AM
@Criggie rather
It was a very steep mountainside and the best browse was right at the trail in that spot.
> White-tailed deer: 150 lbs male, 100 lbs female.
Mule deer (aka black-tailed): 120–330 lbs male, 95–200 lbs female.
Elk: 400–1000 lbs male (max 1300), 375–650 lbs female.
Moose: 800–1500 male (max 1800 or higher), 400–1000 lbs female.
So the western deer here are twice the size of the eastern deer, but they can't hold a candle to the elk let alone to the moose.
@tchrist So browsers can kill you. From now on I will watch more closely Chromium, Mozilla and the likes.
@jlliagre Yes if you let them grow without bound they might simply squish you.
It is best to call these animals elk.
No, it is not.
2:11 AM
And call the big deer wapiti.
Sigh.
What's the next to go, reindeer?
Because calling the deer-like animal elk is based on a misunderstanding, and...just terribly confusing.
So we should use an Indian name instead?
Moose is also Indian.
I'm calling them moose. Everybody in North America does. If you do it the other way, you'll just screw people's head up.
Spanish calls them alces, which given that they're Alces alces you can understand. What French does is not clear to me.
2:14 AM
You are screwing up several of mine, though!
Come live here for a spell.
Alces alces, aussi connu sous le nom d'élan (en Eurasie) ou orignal (en Amérique du Nord), est une espèce de mammifères de la famille des Cervidae. Le genre Alces est parfois considérée comme étant monotypique, mais certains auteurs considèrent parfois les populations d'Amérique du Nord et de l'Est de l'Asie comme étant des espèces distinctes à savoir Alces americanus et Alces alces. L'orignal se distingue par les bois larges et plats, ou palmés, des mâles. Les autres membres de la famille ont des bois avec une forme dendritique. Leur régime alimentaire est composé de végétation terrestre ...
I know what an eland is, and it's an antelope not a cervid.
About the same size as a moose, though.
> Altération de l'a. subst. orignac «id.» (1603 [éd.], Champlain, Des Sauvages, fo4 vo), lui-même empr. au basque oregnac, orenac «id.», plur. de orein «cerf». Mot franco-canadien qui nous est parvenu du Canada où les Basques ont émigré au xvies. (cf. 1609 [éd.] Lescarbot, Hist. de la Nouvelle France, p.811: mais premièrement parlons de l'Ellan lequel ils [les Sauvages] appellent Aptaptou, et noz Basques Orignac). V. FEW t.20, p.18b et Fried., p.461.
BASQUE!?
The elk (pl.: elk or elks; Cervus canadensis), or wapiti, is the second largest species within the deer family, Cervidae, and one of the largest terrestrial mammals in its native range of North America and Central and East Asia. The word "elk" originally referred to the European variety of the moose, Alces alces, but was transferred to Cervus canadensis by North American colonists. The name "wapiti" is derived from a Shawnee and Cree word meaning "white rump", after the distinctive light fur around the tail region which the animals may fluff-up or raise to signal their agitation or distress to...
Ug, no: elks are human members of the Elks Club. The noun for the cervid is invariant in North America: this elk, those elk.
It's always the same old story. There are only a few words for things and the colonists reuse them for new things that are not the old things. There are so many of these that it makes your eyes bleed.
A "robin" in the UK is unrelated to and looks nothing like a "robin" in North America, which is also unrelated to and again looks nothing like a "robin" in Australia.
Same with many other creatures, be they fish or fowl.
That is understandable, but unwise.
Buffalo.
Possums.
2:32 AM
> Des pêcheurs basques venaient régulièrement pêcher dans le golfe du Saint-Laurent, bien avant que Jacques Cartier ne s’y aventure. Ils furent parmi les premiers Européens, juste après les Vikings, à venir en terre d’Amérique, et ils auraient déjà connu une sorte de sabir pour communiquer avec les Amérindiens. La langue française en contexte nord-américain a hérité un mot de ces pêcheurs basques : orignal n. m. (orignac chez Champlain) « mammifère ruminant de la famille des Cervidés, semblable à l’élan »
@jlliagre Thanks. Every single time I see orignal my brain fills it in as original which is driving me crazy.
From Proto-Basque *orein ~ *oreni. IPA(key): /oɾei̯n/, [o̞.ɾẽ̞ĩ̯n] orein anim deer “orein”, in Orotariko Euskal Hiztegia [General Basque Dictionary], Euskaltzaindia, 1987–2005 “orein”, in Euskaltzaindiaren Hiztegia [Dictionary of the Basque Academy], Euskaltzaindia “orein” in Etymological Dictionary of Basque by R. L. Trask, sussex.ac.uk orein instructive plural of ori Reino, eroin, orien
Is -al by chance some sort of an augmentative suffix in Basque?
@jlliagre The declensions on that word make me weep.
Getting as bad as Finnish, you know? This is why I never learned either of those. :)
Finnish deer: peura. Ho paura. :)
I know, I know. You don't need prepositions now.
Finnish moose are hirvi.
@tchrist I'm okay with prepositions!
@jlliagre Yes, they're worth not having to learn all that stuff, that's for sure.
I wonder whether Basque keyboards make Z and X easier to get at.
Oh there isn't one. They just use either the Spanish layout or the French layout, depending.
> Manufacturers do not want one keyboard for Spanish and another for Catalan or Basque.
Sigh.
3:24 AM
Resumptive pronoun of the day, from a true crime podcast:
> There was a lawsuit filed for wrongful death against the hospital, which many thought this was just a ploy to get out of the murder charges.
(Unless you drink the H&P kool-aid, in which case "this" is not a pronoun but a fused determiner-head.)
Does this chat have humor? Like, do people there do jokes? Do they like jokes?
@user402514 Only if they're good jokes.
@alphabet That immediately crosses me off the list, but hey, it was worth at least trying.
I, of course, am a completely serious raccoon and everything I say should be treated with the reverence due to every member of our species, being the evolutionary apex of the animal kingdom.
But you humans: feel free to joke amongst yourselves while we move into your attics.
3:41 AM
@alphabet Hmm yeah, that is just one this too many.
4:19 AM
@alphabet This is just a mistake, caused by a switch of sentence structures in the middle. It is not a grammatical phenomenon—not a “thing.”
@alphabet "Fused Determiner-Head" sounds like a third area boss in a cyberpunk game
@Xanne In this case, yes. Some resumptives are more interesting.
@M.A.R. Right up there with Fused Modifier-Head and Fused Relative-Head.
@user402514 No.
4:32 AM
@Xanne A common mistake can be considered a thing.
4:44 AM
Some resumptives are weird, resulting from a failure to construct a valid relative clause.
Sometimes they're just mistakes caused by forgetting that one is inside a relative clause and forgetting to leave a gap anywhere.
@alphabet Don't they all fail to do so?
@alphabet Is that different?
@Cerberus Here's an example of what I'm talking about:
Feb 24 at 21:14, by alphabet
Second resumptive of the day: "I'm about to say some things that I don't know what they mean." (From the same YouTuber as above.)
Essentially: "I'm about to say some things that I don't know what mean" is ungrammatical, so you try to "fix" it by filling in the gap, creating "I'm about to say some things that I don't know what they mean"
Of course you're not really making the sentence grammatical when you do this, but you are making it less awful
This construction turns out to be surprisingly common
Anyway it shows some things about how people try (and fail) to construct relative clauses
So there's been some work by linguists on the issue
I have been cataloging them because I'm bored
5:00 AM
@alphabet OK so in this case the sentence can't be easily fixed, as opposed to the example you posted earlier?
@Cerberus Yes
Right.
The result of painting oneself into a syntactic corner, so to speak
People should learn to switch between clauses and nominal phrases: it makes writing so much easier!
These show up much more often in speech than in writing, of course, since in writing you can notice and fix them. But you do find them written down on occasion.
5:14 AM
well when you're talking its kinda hard to reverse and edit what you have done already said so forwards is the only way out.
Indeed.
6:05 AM
> Deer 255, a mule deer famous for her yearly 240-mile migration from southwest Wyoming to central Idaho, has died. According to researchers with the Wyoming Migration Initiative, who announced her death this morning, her GPS collar data indicates that she died in Wyoming’s Red Desert around noon on April 11, just three days into her spring migration.
 
2 hours later…
8:32 AM
13
Q: Some images uploaded in chat cannot be visited via the link

VLAZThis is an intermittent failure and I cannot find a good way to reliably reproduce it. Some times when uploading an image in chat it shows up but the link leads to a page that says "oh no, that request didn't look right". Here is an example of such a message - the image embeds and shows up, but c...

 
1 hour later…
9:51 AM
Does this sentence sound fine to you guys?:

From Zero to Hero is currently at its third edition.
 
5 hours later…
2:45 PM
#WhenTaken #111 (17.06.2024)

I scored 888/1000 🎉

1️⃣ 📍 1119 km - 🗓️ 3 yrs - ⚡ 165 / 200
2️⃣ 📍 3.9 metres - 🗓️ 0 yrs - ⚡ 200 / 200
3️⃣ 📍 3 km - 🗓️ 26 yrs - ⚡ 131 / 200
4️⃣ 📍 226.8 metres - 🗓️ 2 yrs - ⚡ 198 / 200
5️⃣ 📍 103 km - 🗓️ 1 yrs - ⚡ 194 / 200

https://whentaken.com
Wordle 1,094 4/6

🟨⬛⬛⬛⬛
⬛⬛🟨🟨⬛
⬛⬛⬛🟨⬛
🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩
3:07 PM
@jlliagre When in doubt, for me it's usually an error.
I don't know why but the following question really bugs me:
13
Q: The words to describe a slave's mentality

Qiulang 邱朗I am trying to translate a Chinese word 奴才 into English. Quite often it is translated to slave. But 奴才 is more about a person's mentality, e.g. obedient servant and being numb, timid, apathetic, and utterly disinterested in public affairs. Luxun, the most famous Chinese writer in 20th century use...

I mean a slave's life is no fun and now you complain about their personality?
I'm having trouble seeing who is talking about who. Are you trying to describe your own slave and how slaves are annoying because they don't want to work? Or are you a fellow slave and are discouraged that the others aren't pulling their weight in the uprising?
It's funny because it's dinosaurs.
 
1 hour later…
@Mitch Where is this going? Complain too much and next thing you know the slaves will start fomenting a rebellion. And then where will we be?
You have to think this stuff through.
#WhenTaken #111 (17.06.2024)

I scored 902/1000 🎉

1️⃣ 📍 1 km - 🗓️ 7 yrs - ⚡ 191 / 200
2️⃣ 📍 3.4 metres - 🗓️ 10 yrs - ⚡ 185 / 200
3️⃣ 📍 1 km - 🗓️ 6 yrs - ⚡ 193 / 200
4️⃣ 📍 328.7 metres - 🗓️ 0 yrs - ⚡ 200 / 200
5️⃣ 📍 2440 km - 🗓️ 9 yrs - ⚡ 133 / 200

https://whentaken.com
> It is encouraging to see that you mentioned the same issues that popped up in my heads.
Cerb, previously I was under the impression that the advantage of having multiple heads was that you could multi-thread.
@Robusto How did you get that close to #5?
Wordle 1,094 2/6

🟩🟨🟩⬛⬛
🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩
Yay!
4:36 PM
@jlliagre Spoiler
Where I really fell down was on the date in #3. I don't know what made me pick the date I did, but it screwed what could have been my best-ever effort.
4:49 PM
Wordle 1,094 5/6

⬛⬛⬛🟨⬛
⬛⬛🟩⬛🟨
🟩🟩🟩⬛⬛
🟩🟩🟩⬛⬛
🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩
@Robusto Amazing. I ruled out the same country for both of the same reasons and I considered your intermediary choice too. My final choice was a little bit too far on the west though, I picked spoiler.
@jlliagre I ruled that out too for my general impressions as given in the spoiler.
Wordle 1,095 4/6

⬛⬛⬛🟨⬛
🟩⬛⬛⬛⬛
🟩🟨🟨⬛🟨
🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩
5:18 PM
Does this sentence sound fine to you guys?:

From Zero to Hero is currently at its third edition.
5:32 PM
@MichaelRybkin The more idiomatic preposition might be "in its third edition."
6:15 PM
@jlliagre Wow, you lucked out.
@MetaEd Seconded.
@MetaEd Thirded ;-)
6:32 PM
Daily Octordle #875
5️⃣🔟
3️⃣6️⃣
🕚7️⃣
9️⃣8️⃣
Score: 59
6:49 PM
Daily Octordle #875
8️⃣7️⃣
3️⃣4️⃣
9️⃣🔟
6️⃣🕚
Score: 58
Daily Sequence Octordle #875
4️⃣5️⃣
6️⃣8️⃣
9️⃣🔟
🕚🕛
Score: 65
 
1 hour later…
7:55 PM
@MetaEd Thank you
Yup, "in" sounds better to me also.
Tiny prepositions make a BIG difference.
 
1 hour later…
9:21 PM
Daily Sequence Octordle #875
4️⃣6️⃣
7️⃣8️⃣
9️⃣🔟
🕚🕐
Score: 68

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