English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room - 2023-10-03

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jlliagre

00:05

#deluxewaffle71 2/5

🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩
🟩⭐🟩⬜🟩⬜🟩
🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩
🟩⬜🟩⬜🟩⬜🟩
🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩
🟩⬜🟩⬜🟩⭐🟩
🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩

wafflegame.net

alphabet

00:30

List of answers that are wrong about strut/comma:
* Cited (and criticized) by Geoff Lindsey: https://english.stackexchange.com/a/5187/470858
* Another equally confident answer from the same poster: https://english.stackexchange.com/a/33402/470858
* "Stressed schwa is not permitted in American English": https://english.stackexchange.com/a/286568/470858
* From the same poster: https://english.stackexchange.com/a/416722/470858
* "For most speakers, this reduced vowel cannot occur in stressed syllables": https://english.stackexchange.com/a/484318/470858

Xanne

00:53

So, are you suggesting deletion?

alphabet

No, I'm just pointing out that a problem exists.

I am trash-hunting.

2 hours later…

CowperKettle

03:25

The last member of the Central Committee of the Communist Party of the USSR has left his position in Russia: Nikolai Ryzhkov has resigned as a senator.

user image

The Soviet period has ended.

CowperKettle

04:07

Word of the day: bee ("The cellar ... was dug by a bee in a single day." – S. G. Goodrich)

Why is it so funny when someone speaks Persian in California?
It's Farsi Cal.

2 hours later…

CowperKettle

06:00

Shoeshine Johnny

ChatGPT Jonny

Darwin William Duell (born George William Duell; August 30, 1923 – December 22, 2011) was an American actor and singer. He was known for his roles as Andrew McNair in the musical 1776, Jim Sefelt in the 1975 film One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest, and Johnny the Shoe Shine Guy on the 1982 crime comedy series Police Squad!. Described as a short, odd-looking character actor with a Shakespearean background, he had many minor roles in plays, films, and TV series. His last work was a cameo in the 2003 film How to Lose a Guy in 10 Days. == Early life and career == Duell was born in 1923 in Corinth, New...

CowperKettle

06:15

the adhd national anthem

CowperKettle

06:31

The AI Revolution is Rotten to the Core

Xanne

07:13

Wordle 836 4/6

⬜🟨⬜⬜🟩
⬜⬜⬜🟨⬜
⬜🟩⬜🟨⬜
🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩

Lucky here.

2 hours later…

jlliagre

09:16

Wordle 836 6/6

⬜⬜🟩⬜⬜
⬜⬜🟨⬜⬜
🟨⬜⬜⬜⬜
⬜🟨🟩⬜🟩
⬜⬜🟩🟩🟩
🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩

Araucaria - Him

10:14

@alphabet I'm afraid that don't clear it up ;) I was tongue-in-cheek exploiting the attachment ambiguity of the because-PP. I.e. it could be an adjunct of the main clause, or the saying clause.

M.A.R.

10:48

@CowperKettle about a guy with fever who wants roses and plums

1 hour later…

CowperKettle

12:12

@M.A.R. Thank you, it's clearer now!

SmokeDetector

12:27

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Manually reported answer (93): Difference " I grabbed his collar" and " I grabbed him by the collar"‭ by axel‭ on english.SE

CowperKettle

12:58

El Ojo (lit. 'The Eye') is an uninhabited circular rotating floating island located within a slightly larger circular lake in the Paraná Delta in the Buenos Aires Province, Argentina.The island can be viewed over a timeline on Google Earth dating back to 2003 using the historical time slider feature. == Description == The island is unique among its floating counterparts as it is shaped almost perfectly circular. As the island is constantly rotating on its own axis due to the flow of the river beneath it, shearing occurs around its outer edge, eroding the island into its circular shape, similar...

alphabet

13:14

@SmokeDetector Weirdest answer ever

Mitch

@M.A.R. I have eaten the plums that were in the icebox

and which you were probably saving for breakfast

Forgive me. They were delicious - so sweet and so cold

tchrist

@Mitch And drunk the milk of paradise.

Mitch

13:31

@tchrist Surely some revelation is at hand

CowperKettle

There is an African tribe in which women feed their future husbands with a lot of milk and stuff, to make them fat. A kind of contest, who would feed their beaux fatter.

> Slim might be in elsewhere but for Ethiopia's Bodi or Me'en people, bigger is always better. The tribe, which lives in a remote corner of Ethiopia's Omo Valley, is home to an unusual ritual which sees young men gorge on cow's blood and milk in a bid to be crowned the fattest man.

tchrist

@Mitch That your feet are yet stained from yesterday's trampling out the vintage.

MetaEd

Wordle 836 3/6

⬛🟨⬛⬛⬛
⬛🟩🟩⬛⬛
🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩

Mitch

@tchrist His truth is marching on ... in bare feet?

Robusto

13:53

#Worldle #620 1/6 (100%)
🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩🎉
⭐⭐⭐
https://worldle.teuteuf.fr

Mitch

What I came here to say:

user image

@Robusto Dammit!

Robusto

Just kidding.

Mitch

@Robusto 😂

Anyway, maps like those are little more than...phrenology? Horoscopes? Tea leaves?

Robusto

@Mitch Dude.

Mitch

But they're fun.

CowperKettle

13:55

El Dudulino

Mitch

@Robusto It's like people in Wyoming don't say anything at all.

Robusto

@Mitch Strangely specific, though.

@Mitch There aren't any people in Wyoming. Only sheep.

Mitch

@Robusto I have no idea what the source data is. But probably an old twitter extract.

The algorithm to smooth out the map from geographic point instances is...

I'm sure it's somewhere.

I think I've seen it.

Robusto

"Dude" is a great word, though. Depending on the intonation, it can be a rebuke, a pur of approval, and several other things.

Mitch

Hiding behind a dumpster out back of a Lawry's Steakhouse.

@Robusto We should write a movie based on that.

Robusto

13:58

@CowperKettle I think you mean "el Duderino" ...

@Mitch Already been done.

Mitch

@Robusto he exhibits the classic r->l transformation of Outer Mongolia.

Robusto

#Worldle #620 1/6 (100%)
🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩🎉
⭐⭐⭐
https://worldle.teuteuf.fr

CowperKettle

@Robusto Yes, probably, because I watched the movie in Russian translation :)

Mitch

Inner Mongolia is not outré enough

Robusto

@CowperKettle Then you never watched it. Almost all of that film wouldn't translate.

Mitch

14:00

Apr 21 at 20:52, by Mitch

Oct 17, 2020 at 21:31, by Mitch

Jul 17 '17 at 14:38, by Mitch

'There is nothing new under the sun' is not new under the sun

Robusto

@Mitch Dude ...

Mitch

@Robusto I feel like we've been through this conversation before.

Robusto

Dude!

CowperKettle

@Robusto Maybe. But those who translated have really put their sole into it. They creatively translated it.

I like this translation.

Mitch

at the Mojo Dojo Casa House

Robusto

14:02

@CowperKettle They put their "sole" into it? I hope you're joking.

Mitch

25 mins ago, by tchrist

@Mitch That your feet are yet stained from yesterday's trampling out the vintage.

@Robusto Jinx!

At least with tea leaves you get tea first.

I mean what do you get out of horoscopes? Those awfully chalky mini-hearts for St Valentine's day?

CowperKettle

@Robusto Oops

Robusto

🌎 Oct 3, 2023 🌍
🔥 49 | Avg. Guesses: 4.29
🟥🟥🟩 = 3

globle-game.com
#globle

@CowperKettle I rest my case.

CowperKettle

Do you know what a pawpaw is.
Something at the end of a dog's leg-leg.

Mitch

user image

CowperKettle

14:07

Asimina triloba

Asimina triloba, the American papaw, pawpaw, paw paw, or paw-paw, among many regional names, is a small deciduous tree native to the eastern United States and Canada, producing a large, yellowish-green to brown fruit. Asimina is the only temperate genus in the tropical and subtropical flowering plant family Annonaceae, and Asimina triloba has the most northern range of all. Well-known tropical fruits of different genera in family Annonaceae include the custard-apple, cherimoya, sweetsop, ylang-ylang, and soursop. The pawpaw is a patch-forming (clonal) understory tree of hardwood forests, which...

Robusto

@CowperKettle I've heard of them, but only in rustic songs. Or one rustic song. I have no actual idea what they are.

CowperKettle

@Mitch Are these cookies?

Mitch

@CowperKettle No. They're smallish candies, about the size of your thumb's fingernail

Robusto

A dogleg is a bend in a fairway on a golf course.

@Mitch Smaller than that.

Mitch

assuming you have the same size and thumb as I do

Robusto

14:08

ANd you can call it a thumbnail.

Mitch

@Robusto Yes... a little smaller

@Robusto I could but then I wouldn't be authentic to my aphasic self.

Robusto

When are you ever?

(Trick question. Answer it and you have proved non-aphasc.)

Mitch

when i look it up online instead of toughing it out and forcing the memory out through the sweat of my pores.

Robusto

Dude! Get your sweaty memories out of here.

Mitch

@Robusto It made me uncomfortable too

Robusto

14:11

No sweaty memories in chat.

CowperKettle

@Robusto Oh. I will add the word to Anki, just in case

> Pawpaw fruits are sweet, with a custard-like texture, and a flavor somewhat similar to banana, mango, and pineapple. They are commonly eaten raw, but are also used to make ice cream and baked desserts.

Robusto

Never had one.

@Mitch I had to pin that exhortation, sorry. We need to keep this place clean, you know.

Mitch

@CowperKettle Like Halloween and Easter with their overcommercialized candification of a thousand years, Valentines day in the US has a lot of ... would you call it culture? ... stuff that only comes out then. One of those is these small candies in pastel colors with overly cute short sweet sayings.

And they taste like chalk

Are they chalk?

My abbreviated and desultory google search turns up nothing except lots of pictures of them.

Robusto

Yes, but sweet chalk.

Mitch

The picture I gave above... it turns out... are guitar picks.

Which is absurd

But there it is

Robusto

14:15

@Mitch Amateur.

Sweethearts (candy)

Sweethearts (also known as conversation hearts) are small heart-shaped sugar candies sold around Valentine's Day. Each heart is printed with a message such as "Be Mine", "Kiss Me", "Call Me", "Let's Get Busy", or "Miss You". Sweethearts were made by the New England Confectionery Company, or Necco, before being purchased by the Spangler Candy Company in 2018. They were also previously made by the Stark Candy Company. Necco manufactured nearly 8 billion Sweethearts per year. Similar products are available from Brach's and other companies. A similar type of candy is sold in the UK under the name Love...

A NECCO product.

Remember Necco Wafers?

M.A.R.

@Mitch that overlap is annoying, bro fella dude

Mitch

@Robusto yeah. like eraser dust collected from fifty years ago, sprinkled with sugar, compressed in a diamond making machine, and stamped with the most cloying honey dripped non-sayings.

@M.A.R. There ain't no laws saying you can't use more than one, my dude-bro.

M.A.R.

There should be a committee to sort these out

Mitch

@Robusto I think people still love them. The people who do, though, I barely remember.

@M.A.R. Maybe a komiteh?

M.A.R.

@Robusto am I here in a bad time or

Mitch

14:19

@Robusto Yeah those are pretty much the same substance and taste as necco wafers

Robusto

@M.A.R. I dunno. You like sweaty memories of meaningless candies?

Well, aren't ya?

Mitch

@M.A.R. Which timeline did you dial up? The one where that Trump idiot becomes president or the one where the Soviet Union got to the moon first?

haha I'm kidding I just mode those up.

Scary though

Important distinction: these chalky valentine 'sweethearts' are not the same as 'Sweetarts' which...

hmmm..

those are probably pretty chalky too

but at least they have a tartness to them that is likeable.

by me.

Robusto

@Mitch Hey, no sweathearts in chat.

Wordle 836 5/6

⬛⬛🟩🟨⬛
⬛⬛⬛⬛⬛
⬛⬛⬛⬛🟨
⬛🟩🟩🟩🟩
🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩

M.A.R.

14:36

@Mitch hearing the Farsi word for committee always reminds me of radical bearded greenshirts

@Mitch oh you're from the blackboard era and know the taste of chalk

Assuming boards were invented back then and you didn't learn math by doodling on cave walls

Mitch

14:54

@M.A.R. They're not still a thing?

M.A.R.

15:12

@Mitch if you mean 'Komite-ye-enghelab' then no. The word itself is often used to refer to some oppressive bureaucratic structure of course. We have the Farsi translation of a 'disciplinary committee' for example

Phrases such as "Dadgah-e-enghelab", the 'revolutionary court', are almost obsolete, but are occasionally used as some sort of ominous signal. Someone ending up there is probably going to hang, they've committed some capital offense.

Araucaria - Him

15:52

@alphabet Geoff is free to publish his findings in a peer-reviewed academic journal, or publish them as a chapter in a peer-reviewed book published by a reputable academic publisher. However, so far he hasn't done so. GL is a very, very human being, academic and writer. However, people who enjoy reading his pop lit and YouTube channels shouldn't mistake this for research.

There's loads of questions to be answered, data to be collected, irregularities addressed etc etc. Here's some for you: in BE, the NURSE vowel has the exact same quality as schwa. The former is said to only occur in stressed syllables, the latter unstressed ones. Everybody knows they have the same vowel quality, no-one denies it. Is NURSE just a stressed schwa?Are they the same phoneme?

*very TALENTED human being

alphabet

@Araucaria-Him Out of curiosity: if I want to pretend to understand phonetics/phonology (as CGEL lets me pretend to understand syntax), what resources would be better?

Araucaria - Him

@alphabet routledge.com/Understanding-Phonetics/Ashby/p/book/…

alphabet

Ok. I'm currently engaged in the project of reading CGEL in its entirety (if you haven't noticed) because I have too much spare time.

Araucaria - Him

Patricia Ashby, Understanding Phonetics (Understanding Language). Patricia has held various bigwig positions in the IPA.

You could also try:

@alphabet cambridge.org/core/books/introducing-phonetic-science/…

Michael Ashby and John Maindement: Introducing Phonetic Science

alphabet

16:12

I will put those on my reading list. I read your answer to that whores/horse question a few months back and it made me realize just how little I understand the way people actually talk.

Do those cover English-specific things like (say) flapping or prefortis clipping, or are they more general?

alphabet

16:58

> In the 1990s, Necco vice-president Walter Marshall wanted to update some of the sayings and retire others, including "Call me", "Email me", and "Fax me".

Fax, that most romantic medium.

nytimes.com/2023/02/07/dining/valentine-candy-hearts.html

> By the 1980s, “Hep Cat” and “Hubba Hubba” had outlived their audience. “You’re Gay” was retired for obvious reasons.

They have a cringe ad campaign now: sweetheartscandies.com

My new brand "Bitter hearts" contains such sayings as "When it's your turn to do chores, that means you actually take care of them on your own, not ask me constant questions about the 'right' way of doing things over and over again, because that's just delegating the work back to me"

They are 5 inches across to fit the text, and come in such flavors as "bitter almond"

Vikas

17:31

> 'Next Generation Will Work For Just 3.5 Days Per Week Due To AI,' Predicts JPMorgan CEO

Robusto

@alphabet How about "Come to MySpace!"?

@alphabet Nice. I suggest you include "Don't even look at me" and "Where the fuck were you all fucking night?"

user image

Fourth flat in 10 days. This one went bang!

America doesn’t need more God. It needs more atheists.

> 1. The Greek myths are obviously stories. The Norse myths are obviously stories. L. Ron Hubbard obviously made that stuff up. Extrapolate.
2. The holy books underpinning some of the bigger theistic religions are riddled with “facts” now disproved by science and “morality” now disavowed by modern adherents. Extrapolate.
3. Life is confusing and death is scary. Naturally, humans want to believe that someone capable is in charge and that we continue to live after we die. But wanting doesn’t make it so.

user image

Still way higher than I would expect.

Daily Quordle 617
7️⃣6️⃣
9️⃣8️⃣
m-w.com/games/quordle/

Vikas

18:13

@Robusto Bicycle?

Mitch

@M.A.R. To be honest I don't know what I mean. I've just heard the words komiteh and basiji often in the same breath as groups of men roaming the streets 'enforcing' a dress code. I thought these vigilante groups were called komiteh, and their members were basiji. and that's the limit of my, well, not knowledge, but of what I've guessed from context. All this enghelab stuff is new to me and sounds more formal (in my non farsi news context)

Vikas

Baby Lion Kisses

Cerberus

18:34

@Vikas Very cute!

@Robusto Going steady!

We're slightly below 50% believing in a god. So you're not too far behind.

2 hours later…

Robusto

20:17

@Cerberus I wonder how much of that 50% is immigrants.

Robusto

20:52

Daily Octordle #617
4️⃣5️⃣
9️⃣🔟
3️⃣8️⃣
7️⃣🕚
Score: 57

jlliagre

Daily Octordle #617
4️⃣5️⃣
🕐6️⃣
🕛🕚
7️⃣8️⃣
Score: 66

Robusto

@jlliagre I'm getting more careful.

jlliagre

@Robusto And me less.

Robusto

21:07

I realized a lot of my mistakes were just not seeing all the letters that had been uncovered.

Cerberus

@Robusto Of immigrants from poorer countries, the large majority are religious, yes.

We have about 13 % people from a non-Western background.

Robusto

21:54

@Vikas Yes, of course.

2 hours later…

Laurel

23:53

This feels like such a niche thing to appreciate, but the other day I noticed that in Hawaiian Roller Coaster (from Lilo and Stitch) they use "wiki wiki" which is the etymon in "wiki" (as in "Wikipedia"), meaning "very quick"

CowperKettle

@Robusto This is strange - so fast.

alphabet

@Laurel (1) thank you for getting that song stuck in my head (2) I somehow only just realized the whole song is about surfing, not about an actual roller coaster

If this song is not currently stuck in your head, I suggest the pop version. You are welcome.

Laurel

@alphabet Hehehehehehehheheehh my work here is done

The music is so good. Just don't rewatch the movie itself

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Oct '233

English Language & Usage: Multi-Layer…

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