English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room - 2023-10-02

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12:01 AM

@tchrist I think opinions on that differ. But one thing is clear: the "first nations" were never settled nations in the way we think of them. For example, what we think of as the Sioux (Hunkpapa, Lakota, Cheyenne, etc.) came west from the Great Lakes and drove the Pawnee down to Oklahoma. And the Comanche, the scourge of Texas and environs, were until they acquired horses from the Spaniards the homunculi of your area. In a couple of centuries thereafter they were one of the most feared tribes.

@tchrist @____@ I will try

@Robusto Indeed: The First Men and the Andals and the Rhoynar all tell tales of their own.

We know so little of our own prehistory, it's just stunning to consider.

@tchrist Actual history reads more easily than potsherds and other contents of various middens.

12:27 AM

> The evidence for these much-earlier dates consists of the bones of black bear and two species of deer which appeared in middens associated with 22,000-year-old hearths, as well as a curved obsidian blade which was found beneath a buried tree trunk. The bones were 24,000 years BP (± 4000 years) and 21,700 years BP (± 500 years).[2]

The obsidian blade was found under a tree trunk which dated to 24,000 years BP (± 1000 years) and was itself dated, using the obsidian hydration method, to between 21,250 and 25,000 years BP.

Always the middens.

Even if we can dig things up from 10 or 20 thousand years ago, that's just the 10% tip of the unplumbed iceberg spanning hundreds of thousands of years.

That one was from Tlapacoya, not from Göbekli Tepe.

So much of the early evidence lies buried beneath the sea, foundered lands as lost to us today as the realms of Beleriand.

American coastal shelves. The North Sea and the Black Sea and the Mediterranean. Lost Sahul, first colonized by men perhaps 60,000 years ago, and now long gone.

And I'm still ignoring half the world.

1:19 AM

@tchrist If even that much.

Yes, it may be a couple million years, given that we know that Homo erectus had some sort of culture.

Just 400 pages of H&P left to go!

1:41 AM

@alphabet just a tenth left!

@Mitch I myself wouldn't be able to stay awake through even a tenth.

@Robusto Once you get past the first 2500 pages you really get what all the setup was about.

I'd rather play the piano.

De gustibus no est accounting for disputandum

1:58 AM

More like a quarter. I have learned that, no matter how much H&P you read, you will still get criticized by BillJ for not understanding modern grammar.

Rhymes with bilge?

Jan 4, 2013 at 15:10, by Robusto

"So nat'ralists observe, a flea
Hath smaller fleas that on him prey;
And these have smaller fleas to bite 'em.
And so proceeds Ad infinitum."

2:34 AM

A man walks straight into a gay bar…
Then he comes out.

Today's helpful information from H&P:

> There is a salient relationship between stools and kitchens: kitchens commonly have stools in them. But there is no comparable relationship between overcoats and kitchens.

> Vision transformers recycle useless patches to store data, causing problems. Adding dedicated register tokens for storage fixes it nicely. reddit.com/r/MachineLearning/comments/16x2o47/…

@alphabet I first read kittens instead of kitchens

3:12 AM

@CowperKettle Kittens commonly have stools in them.

3 hours later…

5:50 AM

@alphabet Yes, I'm a fan of Prof Lawler, but not of stuffing everything besides the subject under a VP tent. I'm a fan of BillJ too, but I feel like I could just say 'complement' and be correct 85% of the time… I'm not sure my motivation can find a foothold here; it's like when our Chem teacher said he didn't believe in the Bell Curve… Only Amy studied from that point on; the rest of us scored somewhere b/t 98 and around 80, because that's how just subtraction works. You're prolly an Amy. :-)

6:37 AM

> “How many times did I not throw myself down on my belly in the road to drink out of the horsetracks a liquid whose yellowish tinge makes my stomach heave today,” recalled Henri Ducor.

From Napoleon's Fatal March

This is the part where they are in July 1812, walking towards Moscow

> Daytime temperatures reached 36°C (97°F), and many of those who had campaigned in Egypt claimed they had never marched in such heat.* On 9 July the 11th Light Infantry lost one officer and two men to heatstroke.

@HippoSawrUs I'm no opponent of BillJ, merely salty at him. I shall get revenge on trash day.

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IVAN БлюZ & Dрузi - Київ- Васильків 2016

Ukrainian blues about a share taxi

The singer suffered from acromegaly and died in 2017 uk.wikipedia.org/wiki/…

Right during a concert in Estonia.

7:04 AM

Wordle 835 5/6

⬜⬜⬜⬜🟨
⬜🟨⬜⬜⬜
⬜⬜⬜🟨🟩
🟩🟩🟩⬜🟩
🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩

@alphabet LOL! Well, we throw away a lot of pizza, if that's any consolation, because we forget we're old.

I'm going to eat all these brownies though…

7:45 AM

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Bad keyword in answer, bad keyword with email in answer, email in answer, pattern-matching email in answer (351): What is the origin of the phrase "zero, zip, zilch, nada"?‭ by Hanny Shaphiss‭ on english.SE

2 hours later…

9:32 AM

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Our local city portal is walking the thinnest of all ices.

It amazes me.

e1.ru/text/politics/2023/10/02/72766265

With such headlines, and not yet banned.

10:00 AM

Irish English of the day: acushla (darling)

3 hours later…

12:41 PM

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Snapped this today on Khokhryakova St.

Probably in reference to the song by Janis Joplin.

> Honey, I love to go to parties
And I like to have a good time,
But if it gets too pale after a while
Honey and I start looking to find
One good ramen.
One good ramen,
Oh ain't much, honey ain't much,
It's only everything.

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I don't understand the meaning of this poem, but it feels good, like almost all by him.

1:26 PM

@alphabet Q. What do you call a raccoon who takes to the road? A. Roadkill.

We passed one on our Sunday 50 yesterday.

1:45 PM

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Hopper 2 test flight.

Another self-landing rocket company

Stoke Space Hops Hopper 2

I wonder if India also pursues a similar design.

#Worldle #619 2/6 (100%)
🟩🟩🟨⬜⬜⬅️
🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩🎉
⭐⭐
https://worldle.teuteuf.fr

🌎 Oct 2, 2023 🌍
🔥 48 | Avg. Guesses: 4.29
⬜🟥🟧🟥🟩 = 5

globle-game.com
#globle

Wordle 835 4/6

⬛⬛⬛🟨⬛
⬛⬛⬛🟩🟩
⬛🟩🟩🟩🟩
🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩

Word of the eve: wringability (Wringability of gauge blocks: these 36 gauge blocks demonstrate high adhesion, allowing them to support their own weight when wrung together)

2:07 PM

THIS explains why Russia starts insane wars

2:23 PM

Wordle 835 5/6

⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜
⬜🟨🟨⬜⬜
⬜⬜⬜⬜🟩
🟨🟩⬜⬜🟩
🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩

Daily Quordle 616
6️⃣8️⃣
4️⃣7️⃣
m-w.com/games/quordle/

Daily Octordle #616
8️⃣9️⃣
5️⃣7️⃣
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Score: 67

Araucaria - Him

3:01 PM

@Laurel I don't think this question should be closed as a dupe:

0

Q: What is the grammatical tense of the sentence "Someone stop that person"?

I was discussing with some friends the grammatical tense of the verb stop in the sentence: Someone stop that person. Despite searching online we did not find a consensus/solution, so we have decided to ask the question here. Half of us argued that the verb stop is in the imperative mood given i...

grammar tenses subjunctive-mood imperatives

Some points. JL's answer there doesn't cover the standard view. Also in "Someone stop that person", the word someone is not a vocative (not even close). The view in many modern grammars is that it's the subject (not when there's an intonational break or comma, of course). That's why it comes after and not before the auxiliary if the imperative is negated "Don't anybody move!" etc. But mostly because that linked-to answer doesn't answet the question! ;)

@Araucaria-Him I voted to reopen. If you do the same, it lacks only a single vote.

Araucaria - Him

@Robusto Thanks, will do.

3:22 PM

Daily Quordle 616
8️⃣5️⃣
9️⃣6️⃣
m-w.com/games/quordle/

@Robusto Oh, come on, I doubt that there was a large-ish country that did not start crazy wars. The only reason is because countries are created of people.

I loved Gogol much more after I listened to a biography of his, by Henri Troyat, a Russian/French writer

Henri Troyat (born Lev Aslanovich Tarasov; 1 November [O.S. 19 October] 1911 – 2 March 2007) was a Russian-born French author, biographer, historian and novelist. == Early life == Lev Aslanovich Tarasov (Russian: Лев Асланович Тарасов, Lev Aslanovich Tarasov) was born in Moscow to parents of mixed heritage, including Armenian, Russian, German and Georgian. In his autobiography, he states that his surname is Armenian (Torossian), while his maternal grandmother was German and his maternal grandfather was of mixed Georgian and Armenian descent. His family fled Russia after the outbreak of th...

Lev Tarasov.

He was born before USSR, and died after USSR.

@CowperKettle Hey, your beef is with the video, not with me. And if I may paraphrase Tolstoy, "All peaceful countries are alike; each warlike country is warlike in its own way." This YouTuber is trying to get at the character of Russia's issues.

@Robusto I will watch the video, it might be good

Gogol's life was very interesting.

His dad also had literary aspirations.

His dad wrote long literary letters to a girl he fell in love with, and finally her parents allowed a marriage. It turned out they had been intercepting all the letters and were reading them to check out who he was, and they liked him.

LOL

3:53 PM

Daily Octordle #616
8️⃣🕚
4️⃣7️⃣
9️⃣🔟
6️⃣3️⃣
Score: 58

4:23 PM

I don't understand what he means by "history is just contingent"

Daily Sequence Octordle #616
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Score: 66

@CowperKettle Each bit depends on bits that precede it?

Ah! Thank you!

I think that the author of the video is very well-read to his own detriment. Maybe 99% of today's Russians don't care a bit about such high-flying stuff. Whether history is this or that.

He is right about the current view of Lenin as somebody who "made mistakes by being too ideological". I mean pro-Z people would think this way.

Their view of the world is that "the USA is a powerful empire, and when you're big like the USA, you can do ugly things to your own advantage, and not get punished. Russia is being punished because it allowed itself to grow weak, that's all"

"The West has double standards and a huge propaganda machine, and pro-Western people inside Russia are weak-minded, or are willing accomplices"

85 yo athletic coach got sentenced to 2 years of jail today. An 11 yo girl was bothering other athlete students, so he asked the girl to get out, and not return until her mom visits him to talk. The girl wrote a report on him, saying that he touched her. 100% of other students and other people don't believe it. e1.ru/text/criminal/2023/10/02/72766013

4:40 PM

@CowperKettle Sad.

@CowperKettle True of the US as well.

In Russia, if you were served an official accusation, you will get into jail, because the police investigators and the prosecutors will be punished if you are judged non-guilty.

The percentage of cases where the accused is judged not guilty is almost 0%

Another athletic coach served several years and got out of jail recently for "masturbating" while sitting on a couch, in a corridor, while a girl (who decided to skip her training session) was also sitting there. Unfortunately for the girl, the whole thing was recorded on video security cams, and there's no masturbation there.

But the coach was sentenced anyway, and served several years.

His case was discussed on state TV, on the main channel, in prime time. 100% of the people believe he did nothing.

Even despite that pressure, he got the jail term.

That's fucked up.

This is he, Alexey Sushko, an athletic coach in Yekaterinburg. He went home on 7 August this year: e1.ru/text/criminal/2023/08/02/72559364

В Екатеринбурге тренера обвинили в педофилии за то, что посидел на одном диване с девочкой

The video record was published, he's just sitting on the couch. People are walking past him, since it's a corridor.

The video camera was in an office, where there also people there.

Only a psychotic person would sit in a corridor, in full view of other people, and masturbate.

So the whole accusation was psychedelic.

I don't think that's the right word. Maybe psychotic?

Better, perhaps: Kafkaesque.

That coach's situation sounds like Josef K.'s in Kafka's The Trial.

5:06 PM

@Araucaria-Him IMHO it's still a duplicate, it's just that the answer to the duplicate question is arguably incorrect. I think the best option is to post your own answer to the original question.

I Want A Third Pill

Rootl game #123

🟩⬛🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩⬛🟩
🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩

🟩⬛🟩🟩🟩🟩⬛🟩⬛
🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩

⬛⬛⬛⬛🟩🟩⬛🟩⬛⬛
⬛⬛🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩
🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩

(I won't close-vote it though, of course.)

@Robusto I started reading "The Trial" in 1995, but it was so horrible to read it, that I stopped.

Or maybe it was something other by Kafka. It was too life-like.

Maybe I would need to read a biography of Kafra before I would be able to read his books.

5:38 PM

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@CowperKettle I don't think that will help.

The mood induction was successful for both happy and sad imitations, regardless of condition (human vs. robot avatar dance model).

Happy dancing instead of escitalopram.

@Robusto Maybe it won't

5:54 PM

@CowperKettle Maybe because people in your country are living it?

1 hour later…

7:10 PM

@CowperKettle Aren't there studies showing that 'go outside' or 'sunlight' have a similar effect?

And these are much cheaper, cheaper than a robot.

Or video of a robot

or animated avatar gif

But I'm guessing there use of the term 'mood induction' is intentionally to not be 'depression induction'?

7:42 PM

> Elon Musk criticized by Ukraine's Parliament over Zelenskyy meme

7:52 PM

0

Q: Russian-English documentary translation

Good afternoon! I have a question for interpreters. How do you translate stamps? For example I have a text in Russian : Отдел УФМС России по г. Москве Зарегистрирован ВЫДАН ПАСПОРТ серии номер I translated it as : Department of the Federal Migrated Services of Russia in Moscow Registered...

@CowperKettle Do you know of online resources for questions like the above? Forums or QA or chat or whatever? It's totally off topic for ELU, but I don't wnat to send them away empty handed.

8:34 PM

Rootl game #123

🟩🟩🟩⬛🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩
🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩

⬛⬛🟩⬛⬛⬛⬛🟩⬛
🟩⬛🟩⬛🟩🟩⬛🟩⬛
🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩

⬛🟩⬛🟩🟩🟩⬛⬛⬛🟩
🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩

I'm thinking of asking and answering my own question, as SE allows, to explain the difference between /ʌ/ and /ə/. Because (a) answers elsewhere (including to related Q's on this site) are often wrong, and (b) it took me a while to figure this out and get why it confuses me (and many other AmE speakers) so much

(Despite the answer being incredibly obvious in retrospect)

@Araucaria-Him Using chat/voting to reopen like this (instead of only pinging me) is the way to go, by the way. (I think your ping before that got lost in my inbox.) Things are just overwhelming...

@alphabet It would be great if you can make a list of those related posts and include them in your question. If your Q&A is that much better, we can close them as duplicates of yours

Btw, McCawley pseudonymously published a paper on the syntax of "Fuck you": babel.ucsc.edu/~hank/quangphucdong.pdf

Note the name of the institution he claims to work at

Heh

That reminds me that I wrote this answer

9:13 PM

@alphabet Yuck Foo's Conneries linguistiques jajaja :-)

@jlliagre That's all just a big conne job.

@Robusto ¡Sí, es una coña!

@jlliagre Creo que te refieres al coño. Curiosamente, esa palabra no es femenina.

Wordle 835 3/6

⬛⬛⬛🟩⬛
⬛⬛⬛🟨⬛
🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩

@Robusto ¡Que no!

9:28 PM

Mais oui.

@Robusto RAE: coña

@jlliagre But the way I use it it ain't no joke.

Conne ?

Oui.

I understood con job.

9:33 PM

El coño no es una coña.

Un con n'est plus un coño et une conne n'est pas une coña.

Well, coña is not conne.

@jlliagre So let it be written, so let it be done.

@Robusto Vale.

10:06 PM

Mr. Lion walks into his cub's room to discover him feasting on a young gazelle.
"What in Heaven's name are you doing!? Your girlfriend is here! You're supposed to be getting ready to take her to the movies!"

"I know Dad! I was just predating!"

Noam Chomsky on AI, Neural Networks, and the Future of Linguistics

Araucaria - Him

@Laurel Hmm. Ok. Would be better if no pinging was needed. Is duping the best use of a busy mods time? I don't quite get the benefit for UL&U or its users. Especially if it isn't absolutely crystal clear to users without any thinking how an issue is addressed in a linked-to post. You can't have an encyclopaedia without it being both user friendly and also clear and well communicated.

@Mitch I left a comment there :)

Araucaria - Him

@Laurel Imagine if you looked up Cranial Resection in an encyclopedia and it redirected you to Making a Brain-shaped Cake because somebody said "It's addressed in one of the twenty five answers on the cake-page". And then, gritting your teeth and with a tear in your eye, you go to the cake page: AND THE ANSWER ISN'T THERE!

Burger Blast Ad 1995 - AI Generated Commercial

Araucaria - Him

10:23 PM

@Laurel You might imagine that such a scenario is not good for the mental health and well being of the users of the encyclopedia. You can imagine the student nurse on their break from their shift who had been cramming for their next exam, incandescent with rage, hurling their computer ...

@Laurel out of the hospital window and then getting arrested by hospital security - who might well call the police. And then, there's every possibility that the "over-excited", by which we mean "mentally tortured", nurse might end up getting tasered. Or worse. Things should not have to work out that way.

😅 I'm just doing my best. There's no need for someone to get so upset as to be arrested over this

2

Araucaria - Him

@Laurel Let's look after our nurses! ;)

And the people who are walking down the hospital sidewalk minding their own business. (Wait, that should be look before…)

> Visceral fat predicted increased risk for lower total gray matter (age 20-39: OR = 5.9; age 40-59, OR = 5.4; 60-80, OR = 5.1) and low white matter volume: (age 20-39: OR = 3.78; age 40-59, OR = 4.4; 60-80, OR = 5.1). aginganddisease.org/EN/10.14336/AD.2023.0820

Wow

Impact factor 5, not bad. Might be a good analysis.

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10:45 PM

I propose we host a peace summit between Prof. Lawler and BillJ.

In the Demilitarized Zone between the two Koreas?

Or in a pavilion set up on a raft in the middle of the Neman River en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaties_of_Tilsit

Yes. And both in handcuffs so nothing gets out of hand.

Abbreviated good evening of the day: God dig-you-den, from God give you good even, attested in Shakespeare

Even if Prof. Lawler and BillJ said their piece some it wouldn't hope for a proposal between I.

> When a London theatre decided to warn potential audiences about strong language, sexual references, grief and death in its latest production, the play’s celebrated star didn’t hold back.

“I think it’s ludicrous,” Ian McKellen told Sky News. “I quite like to be surprised by loud noises and outrageous behaviour on stage.”

@tchrist Is that a typo, or have your clever-sentence-writing abilities surpassed my ability to parse them?

10:53 PM

@alphabet Yes.

@tchrist This is something that I don't know if you're saying because is true.

@alphabet AFTER BIRD STRIKES JUDGE WHO ORDERED OLIVE GARDEN PATH SENTENCE IN CASE OF GREEN WALKWAYS VACATED OVERTURNED BUT RIGHTS AND LANDS SAFELY

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> When we're given a composition homework at school, we are warned not to use neural nets. Is it 2077 already?

Araucaria - Him

@alphabet Why does the fact that it's true mean that you don't know whether it was Christ who said it?

I'll pop back tomorrow to find out ...

*Tchrist (not JC)

11:12 PM

> The name "Fukuppy" was a portmanteau of "Fukushima", the surname of the founder of the company, and the English word "happy".

> Fukuppy has been cited as an example of the risks associated with wasei-eigo, Japanese-language expressions based on English words that do not exist in standard English.

Turtle Island (Indigenous North American folklore)

Turtle Island is a name for Earth or North America, used by some Indigenous peoples, as well as by some Indigenous rights activists. The name is based on a creation story common to several Indigenous peoples of the Northeastern Woodlands of North America.A number of contemporary works continue to use and/or tell the Turtle Island creation story. == Lenape == The Lenape story of the "Great Turtle" was first recorded by Europeans between 1678 and 1680 by Jasper Danckaerts. The story is shared by other Northeastern Woodlands tribes, notably those of the Iroquois Confederacy.The Lenape believe that...

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@Araucaria-Him The intended reading is "this is something that [I don't know if you're saying ___ because ___ is true]." (Re my discussion with @tchrist about confusing/invalid relative clauses earlier.)

@CowperKettle Fugu-puppy!

I'm not sure if anyone "successfully" parsed it that way.

I'm currently collecting anomalous relative clauses I've overheard and/or seen online.

One good one I found on reddit:

> Shortly after moving into the new house my son was made redundant and received a payout (which he spent most of it on Uber eats).

11:39 PM

Sep 19 at 21:15, by alphabet

As is fairly common, of course; there are plenty of sentences that speakers disagree on whether they're correct. (That sentence is one of them.)

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