English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

Cerberus

1:10 AM

"In anger"?

Cerberus

1:22 AM

Before it was hit?

Robusto

"In anger" is an idiom meaning in a battle situation. It is as opposed to testing or training.

Cerberus

1:38 AM

Ah, I see.

3

A: Is "used in anger" a Britishism for something?

Looking at the British National Corpus, I have found a phrase where used in anger is used. They form part of a Law and Order exhibition which extends to stocks, manacles, handcuffs, and even a giant magnifying glass. […] Most of the display has never been used in anger, or self defence. Als...

This might suggest the American army has popularised the expression in this sense?

jlliagre

2:06 AM

Ah, a country with a characteristic shape and that didn't change its name recently!

#Worldle #121 1/6 (100%)
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https://worldle.teuteuf.fr

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Wordle 337 4/6

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Vikas

4:55 AM

#Worldle #121 1/6 (100%)
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https://worldle.teuteuf.fr

@jlliagre 😎

M.A.R.

7:17 AM

@Cerberus it's like Star Wars when Vader accidentally killed in anger

Vikas

11:02 AM

> US President Joe Biden will meet this week with Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi in Japan, national security adviser Jake Sullivan told reporters as the US President flew from South Korea to Japan.

This comes at a time when the US is working to convince India to distance itself from Russia.

Robusto

12:40 PM

@Cerberus Perhaps. But it really means in any kind of combat or fight, when you're really trying to hurt or kill someone. You hear it most in phrases like "shots fired in anger" and the like.

Wordle 337 3/6

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#Worldle #121 2/6 (100%)
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https://worldle.teuteuf.fr

Haha, I really spaced my first guess on that.

What was I thinking?

Cerberus

@Robusto Well, one has looked at the maps of all countries in the world some time or other, hasn't one?

Robusto

Of course. Good memory, though!

Cerberus

12:57 PM

@CowperKettle That's Frisian!

@Robusto More like a guess.

Robusto

To ditch Dutch means to free Frisian.

Cerberus

@CowperKettle Indeed.

In Dutch, it is like an English loan word, except it's Frisian.

tchrist

1:28 PM

Ik hie juster gjin nocht en meitsje sels wat te iten klear.

Just icky gin and nothing but maybe salt's what you'll clear again.

Never order a drink in Friesland: the Frisians can't tell their seltzer water from their salt water.

If you like that sort of thing, I have a great bridge to the outer archipelago to sell you.

Robusto

Is your snow all gone yet?

tchrist

Goodness no.

But the green grass pokes through patchily.

Robusto

Spring Snow

Spring Snow (春の雪, Haru no Yuki) is a novel by Yukio Mishima, the first in his Sea of Fertility tetralogy. It was published serially in Shinchō from 1965 to 1967, and then in book form in 1969. Mishima did extensive research, including visits to Enshō-ji in Nara, to prepare for the novel. == Plot == The novel is set in the early years of the Taishō period with the reign of the Emperor Taishō, and is about the relationship between Kiyoaki Matsugae, the son of a rising nouveau-riche family, and Satoko Ayakura, the daughter of an aristocratic family fallen on hard times. Shigekuni Honda, a schoolfriend...

tchrist

I've lost another tree.

Robusto

That sucks. The death of a tree is always a somber occurrence.

tchrist

1:44 PM

My friend of nearly 30 years, it was around 50 years old, cut off before its time.

Mais où sont les neiges d'antan?

Here. Right here.

Robusto

I could read that.

tchrist

¿Mas onde están las nieves de antaño?

Robusto

Even easier.

tchrist

Once you get past literary mas for pero and archaic onde for donde.

Robusto

I had an ancient cherry tree in my yard in MA. The birds loved it. (So did wasps, but that's another story.) One day it simply fell over.

tchrist

1:48 PM

George Washington slept there?

Robusto

@tchrist Well, there is a relationship between that mas and French ma.

tchrist

I was thinking of replacing it with a cherry.

Robusto

@tchrist If he told you that, he was lying.

tchrist

Será French mais, pero sí.

Robusto

@tchrist Yah, mais. Where did I get ma? One of the languages floating around in my brain.

tchrist

1:50 PM

@Robusto Ma dove sono le nevi di una volta?

Robusto

Italian, sure.

tchrist

Italian's yesteryear isn't as lovely.

Robusto

Romance languages put me into a continual fugue state.

tchrist

Portuguese uses mas for mas but mais for más: so like más amplio > mais amplo.

Robusto

spinning

tchrist

1:54 PM

Mas onde estão as neves do antanho?

Robusto

Saxony is a fugue state. Because Bach.

tchrist

Where Portuguese antanho is a somewhat uncommon loanword from Spanish antaño. They'd probably just say passado instead.

Robusto

@tchrist Is /nh/ in Portuguese pronounced like /ñ/ in Spanish?

tchrist

Yes. Identically.

Robusto

takes notes

tchrist

1:56 PM

And lh is how they spell the Castilian ll or Italian gl.

Tu falas castelhano?

But it's more palatalized than in most yeístas' pronunciation, more like the original from Old Castile.

ly

IPA lambda.

You do hear that sound in Spanish speakers from Castilla la Vieja, or in those from bilingual regions like Galicia or Cataluña, which both retain that sound as well in Gallego and Catalan respectively.

I think maybe in Andinos somewhere as well, but mostly people just say "y" for "ll" now.

Even though there's only one L in galego in actual Galician, but two in the Castilian word for that lusitanian language, gallego.

I'm surprised Cerb isn't here telling us about the millions of Frisian dialects from all the little islands.

Yeísmo

Yeísmo (Spanish pronunciation: [ɟ͡ʝeˈiz.mo]; literally "Y-ism") is a distinctive feature of certain languages, many dialects of the Spanish language in particular. This feature is characterized by the loss of the traditional palatal lateral approximant phoneme [ʎ] (listen) (written ⟨ll⟩) and its merger into the phoneme [ʝ] (listen) (written ⟨y⟩), usually realized as a palatal approximant or affricate. It is an example of delateralization. In other words, ⟨ll⟩ and ⟨y⟩ represent the same sound [ʝ] (listen) when yeísmo is present. The term yeísmo comes from the Spanish name for the letter ⟨y⟩ (ye...

Because only the pink areas ever have [ʎ] for LL, and there are no pink areas near the United States, most American speakers of Spanish never hear it.

Oh hm, Galicia is yeísta.

But Cataluña is not.

I wonder what other overlay language I was thinking of.

Not Asturian either.

> The same shift from [ʎ] to [ʒ] to [ʃ] (to modern [x]) historically occurred in the development of Old Spanish; this accounts for such pairings as Spanish mujer vs Portuguese mulher, ojo vs olho, hija vs filha, and so on.

Oh, it's Basque I was thinking of.

> In Spain, most of the northern half of the country and several areas in the south used to retain the distinction, but yeísmo has spread throughout the country, and the distinction is now lost in most of Spain, particularly outside areas with linguistic contact with Catalan and Basque.

The Portuguese dative clitic corresponding to Spanish le, les is spelled lhe, lhes.

But please don't say YAY. :)

Robusto

2:14 PM

Now I remember: ma from music, like allegro ma non troppo and the like.

tchrist

Será italiano entonces.

Lots of South Americans still use onde for donde.

Robusto

I would confuse it with wave for a second or two.

tchrist

Yup, although it doesn't occur as a noun like waves do.

Undulation.

> onde
Del lat. unde 'de donde'.

1. adv. desus. En donde.
2. adv. desus. De donde.
3. conj. causal. desus. Por lo cual, por cual razón.

> onda
Del lat. unda.

1. f. Cada una de las elevaciones que se forman al perturbar la superficie de un líquido.
2. f. Cada una de las curvas, a manera de eses, que se forman natural o artificialmente en algunas cosas flexibles, como el pelo, las telas, etc. U. m. en pl.
3. f. Cada uno de los recortes semicirculares con que se adornan los bordes de vestidos u otras prendas.
4. f. Fís. Perturbación periódica que consiste en una serie de oscilaciones que se propagan a través de un medio.
5. f. cult. ola (‖ onda de las aguas).

But they don't know where ola comes from in that sense.

> ola
De or. inc.

1. f. Onda de gran amplitud que se forma en la superficie de las aguas.
2. f. Fenómeno atmosférico que produce variación repentina en la temperatura de un lugar. Ola de calor, de frío.
3. f. oleada (‖ movimiento impetuoso de gente apiñada).
4. f. oleada (‖ aparición repentina de algo). Ola de gripe.

"De origen incierto"

"La quinta ola del coronavirus"

Robusto

Don't even ...

tchrist

¡Hola! te dice el covid.

¡Olé! le dice el matador, o por lo menos la vacunación matadora...cabe esperar.

I have a couple of family members who've come down with it in this latest wave.

Robusto

2:27 PM

Sucks.

tchrist

Possibly more than two, but I haven't made my Sunday calls yet.

Robusto

I have to get ready to ride now. Sunny and mild here. But smoke on the horizon.

Ciao for now.

tchrist

It's still way chill here.

Hasta.

Oh heat wave, it's made it up to 43 from 34!

Vikas

3:21 PM

@tchrist ?

> Hasta (hand), a Sanskrit word meaning hand gesture or position.

A similar word is Hastar (a character in Indian movie)

@Robusto I was thinking to type South Korea for first few seconds. Then suddenly I felt it looks like (today's answer).

Cerberus

Hmm.

How bad is this deficiency?

Vikas

3:40 PM

I eat only curd (known as yoghurt in US) and little milk. It contains some B12. But I won't be surprised if I have some deficiency.

@CowperKettle No.

> Symptoms are rare but can include fatigue, breathlessness, numbness, poor balance and memory trouble.

I don't think I have these symptoms.

I think enough milk and yoghurt are enough.

But those who don't eat milk/yoghurt will need other food for sure.

Vikas

3:59 PM

> France warns it could take '15 or 20 years' for Ukraine to join EU

Why aren't they optimistic?

20 years is a long wait.

> Some people can develop a vitamin B12 deficiency as a result of not getting enough vitamin B12 from their diet. A diet that includes meat, fish and dairy products usually provides enough vitamin B12, but people who do not regularly eat these foods can become deficient.

I think the reason why there are lot of deficiency in India is a large part of India don't eat non vegetarian food.

Makes sense?

Now I really don' think every vegetarian in India is more likely to get deficiency. All my cousins and uncles are perfectly healthy and strong because they belong to famers/agriculture families. A lot of them have their own buffalo/cows at home. So they would drink plenty of milk and yoghurt.

@CowperKettle I think first we need to find exact symptom. Or how we are different from others when we have this deficiency.

> It is evident from the numbers that meat consumption in South and Northeast India is highest in the country, while it is lowest in North India.

The link you shared is about South India. They should be theoretically least deficient.

I think there are other reasons apart from food. Like you said genes.

Vikas

4:30 PM

Today I torn and threw at least 1 KG paper documents and files/papers that I had collected since my school life and throughout graduation and jobs. So their max age was around 10-12 years. Most of them were useless.

It removed a psychological burden.

And still a lot remains. Will clean them too probably tomorow.

Things are becoming digital now.

M.A.R.

7:44 PM

> Wordle 338 3/6

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@Vikas your liver stores 1000 to 3000 micrograms of vitamin B12. It takes years of inadequate nutrition for you to develop symptoms of B12 deficiency

CC @Cowp

I think "seemingly without any problems" is not true. Many areas in the underdeveloped and developing world have suboptimal nutritional habits that lead to increased incidence of certain diseases and syndromes. There's no reason this is any different.

tchrist

8:05 PM

@Vikas Shirley you jest!

> Etymology 2
From Spanish hasta (“until”), especially hasta luego (“until later”).

Pronunciation
IPA(key): /ˈɑːstə/
Interjection
hasta

(colloquial) goodbye

Robusto

@Vikas I tried something I should have known wasn't the answer. Not even close. Well, shit happens.

Wordle (ES) #136 5/6

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https://wordle.danielfrg.com/

Clouds climbing up the backs of the Manzanos Mountains.

ConGovDeIn

8:26 PM

@M.A.R. Hi. I would like to ask from you can a person having a damaged liver (damaged liver means a liver which has been hurt by some medicines like Isoniazid) would have problem in digestion of protein? Coz some people are saying that bile has nothing to do with digestion of protein, yet I find people with side-effected liver having problems with protein.

I know you’re a busy student, but please answer whenever you get free.

tchrist

10:05 PM

> Callidus emissas eludere simius hastas,
Si mihi cauda foret, cercopithecus eram.

> and oftentimes this word is taken as a Genus which includes the whole; when strictly taken, it signisies an Ape without a Tail, and in Latin is call'd Simia; that which hath a Tail is call'd Cerco∣pithecus, in English a Monkey. Thus Material. Epig lib. 14. Epigr. 202.Martial.

Yes, but why did Martial use simius and not simia there?

@Cerberus I thought an ape was usually a simia in Latin not a simius.

Epigram CCII.

Just don't translate CCIII; it will just get you flagged. :)

> 1 The cercopithecus came from Aethiopia : Plin. N.H. viii.

Not helping.

Oh, I know why he used simius.

He's talking about himself.

So it would have sounded funny positing that he was a simia.

I dunno, he who apes the ape no tail needs, nor -ius noun.

Best not translate CCV either. Gosh, this guy!

Clever monkey.

From a simius callidus, a homo sapiens is a quick jump away.

Although a simia calida would be a hot or cooked one, not a wise or clever one.

Spanish cálido is a reborrowing; the normal descendent is just caldo.

Doublets happen.

> In the sense "hot water", the syncopated form calda is particularly common. Emperor Augustus "corrects [his grandson Gaius Caesar] for saying calidam rather than caldam, not because it's not Latin, but because it's annoying and, as he himself puts it in Greek, περίεργον (períergon, “affected, overdone”)".

"Because it's annoying" is funny!

I wonder whether the hastas he was eluding were arrows or spears.

I assume he's talking about eluding metaphorical darts hurled at him.

But I don't get the thing about the tail.

In that I don't get what I take to be the extended metaphor.

Guenon

The guenons (UK: , US: ) are Old World monkeys of the genus Cercopithecus (). Not all members of this genus have the word "guenon" in their common names; also, because of changes in scientific classification, some monkeys in other genera may have common names that include the word "guenon". Nonetheless, the use of the term guenon for monkeys of this genus is widely accepted. All members of the genus are endemic to sub-Saharan Africa, and most are forest monkeys. Many of the species are quite local in their ranges, and some have even more local subspecies. Many are threatened or endangered because...

> In the English language, the word "guenon" is apparently of French origin.[2] In French, guenon was the common name for all species and individuals, both males and females, from the genus Cercopithecus. In all other monkey and apes species, the French word guenon only designates the females.

French is weird.

Robusto

11:59 PM

@tchrist Gaius, a/k/a Caligula.

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