@CowperKettle That sounds like fun.

@tchrist I had a skunk that was living under a guest house with her litter, in a dug-out space under the guest house where the water heater was located. She took her cute little ones, each about the size of a grapefruit, out in the morning and the evening. They followed her along. But this is not the season for a litter--it's the season where they're looking for a nice place to spend the winter. My husband wanted to take some sort of action, which I recommended against.

So I hear the debate was contentious. Haven't tried watching it. Probably won't.

Life is too short to look at Trump.

@tchrist Then we had a guest in the guest house, and the skunk decided to take her young ones and depart. So maybe walking on the deck, maybe banging on it, would suggest your new pet isn't in a good place for a winter sleep.

Good luck.

What's the difference between "annus horribilus" and "annus horribilis"?

@FaheemMitha It's all very predictable by now isn't it? Trump interrupts Biden every time like a five-year-old and makes outrageously false claims and nobody calls his BS for some reason.

And is anyone going to change sides because of the debates? Probably not a significant number

So yeah, almost everything, including breathing, are more productive things to do

@M.A.R. That would take a Latin expert. But perhaps you have one here?

@FaheemMitha The three-headed underworld doggy

@M.A.R. Yes, I was just reading about it. I haven't tried watching any of it, mostly because I don't want to listen to Trump. I'm surprised that anyone would want to.

Eh, Americans probably have no choice

@M.A.R. The Guardian to the Underworld, yes.

@M.A.R. I almost feel sorry for them.

@M.A.R. Yes, that appears to be the consensus.

@M.A.R. I thought Biden did call him on some of it.

I'm still wondering who all those people are who favor him in the polls. Though I've seen his campaign rallies, and they look scary.

@FaheemMitha Not enough, because as a saying goes in Persian, "you can't contain sea in a bucket"

I think I might have met the kind of people who would vote for Trump in the past (perhaps I've mentioned I used to live in NC?), and they were scary too.

@M.A.R. Perhaps not. I imagine Trump was shouting a lot.

Well, it sounds like how every fascist regime gains its following, no?

At first it's just like hooligans in a football match

(or soccer rolls eyes)

@M.A.R. Perhaps so. I'm no expert on the subject. But the proportion of people who favor Trump is dismayingly high.

Like 40%. That's 2 out of 5.

Then the regime does worse and worse stuff, and people with a pinch of decency can't see themselves following it anymore. Eventually the regime would have a significant population still supporting it but far far from the majority. But then it would be too late to stop it from doing what it wants to

Many of them white rural voters, from what I've read.

@M.A.R. At that point it's generally transitioned to a dictatorship, or died.

Whether this will happen to the United States, of course nobody knows.

One big picture issue is that people are watching Trump and seeing how successful he is. So people like him, but smarter, may be learning the wrong lessons from that.

So, basically, I'm saying not all Trump supporters are horrible people. Some at least are stupid enough not to see in front of their noses

Actually, I don't think that the Republicans are technically (yet) a fascist party, though they are most of the way there, and may still get there in the future.

@M.A.R. Agreed. Stupidity and ignorance are in plentiful supply everywhere.

We actually have a fascist organization running things in India, and there is a noticeable contrast between them and the Republicans.

For example, Modi has (I believe), never done a press conference as PM. because kings/dictators don't. He has a weekly talk called "Man Ki Baat".

Well, the US is kinda a special case

He also doesn't do interviews.

I believe the last interview he did (which is on Youtube) he walked out of.

On the other hand, Trump still does interviews, where he quarrels with the Press.

Sounds like the typical Bollywood villain

@M.A.R. Who does?

Maybe Bollywood isn't exaggerating things all that much

@FaheemMitha Modi

Is it Mo-dee or Mo-dai?

@M.A.R. Oh. How so? And do you watch Bollywood films? You don't seem the type.

@M.A.R. The former.

@FaheemMitha Heh, just the ones on TV

Which are sorta background noise until I raise my head and see three people flying at each other

Mo as in Motor. Dee as in deeee.

Can't think of a matching word for the latter.

@M.A.R. They show Bollywood films on Iranian TV?

Well, the, uh, couth ones

@M.A.R. couth ones?

Dancing scenes are censored.

@M.A.R. That's funny.

Someone more puritanical than the Indian censors?

No "hip movies" like the ones Bollywood makes to associate itself with western culture

The dancing scenes are probably the most lively parts of those films.

@FaheemMitha wow, you kidding me

@M.A.R. I don't know what that is. People running around with guns and talking about terrorism?

@M.A.R. Hmm? You know they don't (or didn't) allow kissing scenes in Indian cinema, right?

Actually, it's not even 'targeted' censoring anymore. You can have a perfectly normal dialog cut out

Because for some reason the schedule is divided into 1h30m chunks

With ~10 mins of ads.

@M.A.R. Huh.

So if your movie was 150 minutes long . . .

@M.A.R. Weird.

Can you stream Netflix or Amazon Prime in Iran?

Nope, mostly because the transaction for the subscription would not be possible

But also because they wouldn't like anything out of their control in people's lives

@M.A.R. Why not? And they don't actually block it, then?

Presumably they don't have a local presence in Iran, then.

I suppose that would be unlikely, given the relationship between the govts of the two countries.

Telegram was censored for the same reason. Apparently this year 60 million accounts on Telegram were Iranian (+98)

@FaheemMitha Nope, why bother?

@M.A.R. To return to what you were saying earlier, why does Modi seem like a Bollywood villain to you?

Actually Amit Shah definitely does. But perhaps you don't know who he is.

@FaheemMitha Walking out of interviews, obvious Bollywood villain prose and style.

Union Home Minister. Nasty piece of work, and looks it. Check out his photos.

@M.A.R. Villain prose and style?

Wow, life imitates art

@M.A.R. Hmm?

Well, for some definitions of 'Art'

@FaheemMitha I remember reading something he said a while ago, and stormed out on someone

The big wig villains in the Bollywood movies that air on Iranian TV wear simple clothing, has bad manners, very over-the-top cliched speeches

@FaheemMitha Hmm, his Twitter sounds like the fascist doublespeak I'm used to hearing

@M.A.R. I don't know what Bollywood films are like (or Hindi films, as they used to be called). I find them mostly unwatchable.

@M.A.R. *have

@FaheemMitha Well, the only good ones I know are a couple of very old movies and Three Idiots

The last Hindi film I recall watching was in a cinema in the 1980s. It was called "Mohan Joshi Haazir Ho". A good film, but very depressing. About how awful the Indian legal system is.

Awful then, awful now. Possibly worse now, I don't know.

Does it mean "Mohan Joshi get ready"?

There are tons of them on the two streaming services I am currently subscribed to. Amazon Prime Video and Hostar (Disney, including Disney Plus).

@M.A.R. No. It means "Is Mohan Joshi present", I think. But I could be wrong. I think that word is Urdu, actually.

Arabic

حاضر

But yeah, it also means "present"

Google Translate seems to agree.

@M.A.R. I thought that Urdu descended from Persian.

But perhaps the two languages have similar words for this?

I'm a bit fuzzy about those details, but Persian loans a lot from Arabic

Thirteen centuries of cultural entanglement

@M.A.R. Yes, that's what I would expect too. For example, my name is technically Arabic, but I think it might be present in Persian too.

Deriving from "fahm", I think. Meaning understanding?

Faheem = One who understands a lot about their surroundings

I'm technically Muslim, so we traditionally use Arabic/Persian names.

It's not a common name in Persian but it's an adjective

@M.A.R. Is that present in Persian, then?

@M.A.R. An adjective? Can you use it in a sentence?

"understanding", "intellectual"

= بافهم

@M.A.R. Ok. BTW, do you still have Zorastrians in Iran, or have they all been driven out, or left?

We have prevalent Zoroastrian customs

@M.A.R. Google Translate thinks that's Arabic. What does the corresponding Persian look like?

Nowruz, "The Wednesday Celebration"

Some superstitions

But nobody practicing?

@FaheemMitha Well that one's actually Persian. "Ba-Fahm", where "Ba" is a prefix meaning "with"

@FaheemMitha Most people practicing

Nowruz is the official Iranian new year.

Probably owing a lot to the Shamsi calendar

@M.A.R. I see. So Google Translate was wrong?

@FaheemMitha Wow that's a new one

@M.A.R. Zorastrianism, I mean.

"Ba-fahm" would be the 'Persian' synonym for "Fahim"

Anyway, lunch time. Back in a bit.

@M.A.R. I see. Good to know. Thanks.

@FaheemMitha well, few people officially practice it as a religion. But its cultural influences are deep enough.

I quite like my name. I guess not everyone does.

@M.A.R. Ok.

In Azerbaijan provinces, I think the biggest hostility has been towards Christians

Not now, of course. We're talking about a century or so ago

Now more people are accepting because religious minorities are so scarce as not to pose any threat to anyone's freedom or whatever.

(Being sarcastic of course)

So people would probably treat Christians with more fascination than suspicion. And of course, despite what the world likes to think, the community is not at all religious anymore

> Basic requirements to (or for) pharmaceutical substances used as starting materials

for

I think it's for

JACKPOT

7 7 7

The meaning in Russian is that the substances must meet certain requirements, and these requirements are listed in this section of the document.

Well, "require" requires "to", not "requirement"

Hmm, maybe not even that.

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Link at beginning of body (45): spin2spin the online portal devoted itself to reviews of modern casinos by Lis Lis on english.SE

@M.A.R. Which community is not?

@FaheemMitha Of course? That's the point.

@Robusto Tight-ass muscles.

@Færd I lost track of the point, but was that supposed to be a trick question?

Ah yeah I saw many people who were duped by it.

Somewhere online

@Færd You and @M.A.R. are presumably from different parts of Iran? Do either of you live in Teheran? You've probably told me already, but I don't retain such information well.

I do live in Tehran. He, in Tabriz, about a thousand kilometers northwest.

~600 kilometers, to be more accurate.

@Færd I know it's 948 kilometers from Tabriz to Mashhad for some reason

@Færd Ok. So quite far away. But I suppose Iran is a large place. As least as countries in the Middle East go.

Which isn't even true apparently

Lots of mountains too, I believe.

Where did I see that figure, hmm

I wonder what it would be like, to live up there.

@FaheemMitha It's not small.

Mountains and deserts, mostly.

But Tabriz's climate is mild

I used to know people from Teheran. They said it was quite a beautiful place.

@M.A.R. That'd be more like Tehran to Mash-had.

1250 meters above sea level

Lots of gardens. Like Lahore.

@M.A.R. What is?

@FaheemMitha Yeah Tehran is in the foothills of one of the mountain ranges, so it's not too bad.

@FaheemMitha Tabriz

I haven't been to Lahore, unfortunately.

@M.A.R. Oh, that's quite high up.

@M.A.R. Tehran is at round about that level too.

@Færd Me neither, but I've heard it described as having lots of gardens. That may not be true, of course. And if it was true then, it may not be true now.

Pakistan is a bit of a disaster, so it's probably not preserving things too well.

Catches for breath

Oh, the 1250 figure is also wrong. Yay me.

@Færd Hmm, Google says Tabriz is 1351 m and Tehran is 1189 m

@FaheemMitha Hmm. Yeah Pakistan is more mountainous than Iran, on average.

@M.A.R. Very close!

But the altitude changes from district to district in Tehran.

I do recall for a fact that below our Own-Ibn-Ali hill a sign says "1279 m above sea level", so that's where my 1250 m came from

Uh-huh

I think the Mughals had a bit of a thing for gardens.

But of course, they need to be kept up, like anything else.

They didn't get gardens on their highlands?

@Færd Who didn't?

Who doesn't have a thing for gardens?

@FaheemMitha Mughals

@M.A.R. Indians don't seem to care, particularly.

@Færd just mending my wounded ego

@Færd I don't understand the question.

In the neighborhood where I live, there are numerous lush parks and gardens. So I'm lucky.

Bombay has hardly any green space, for example. And what green space it has, people are constantly trying to build on. It's quite horrific.

My neighborhood is green too

There was a big scandal with the Aarey Milk Colony greenspace recently.

@Færd That's nice.

There's this green index they use for cities, hmm

@FaheemMitha Never mind. I mistook it for something else.

@FaheemMitha I think we have that plague too. But I suppose Bombay is in worse shape.

The whole area is something of an ecological disaster, anyway.

The greater Bombay region, that is. Unbelievable population pressure.

@M.A.R. That'd be useful. What is it?

@Færd In Teheran?

@FaheemMitha Yeap

@Færd Trying to find the technical term for it

@Færd 25 million people, give or take. And a ton of corruption. So yes.

Roughly the population of Australia crammed into a city sized area. And about as fun as it sounds.

@FaheemMitha In what area? We're at around half that figure.

There are a few gardens in South Bombay, but they seem to get less and less every year.

@Færd Dunno what the area is, but it's not that large.

@Færd You're at 12 million? That's a lot.

Yeah and it's exploding upwards and outwards.

And not very orderly or environmentally firendly.

@Færd Yikes. Hasn't your country learned anything about population control?

Do they want to go the way of India? It won't be pretty.

@FaheemMitha Quite a lot actually. Tehran's problem is kina unique in this regard, I think, because many people migrate(d) to it for work.

@Færd Wow. Is that Teheran?

Yeah, an ugly part.

That's seriously terifying.

I had no idea it was so built up.

Tehran's population varies between day and night by a few million. Because people come for work and go.

@Færd Oh.

Probably a lot of tearing-up of old buildings, I expect. And building new taller ones.

But we're not en route to become India, that's for sure.

@Færd Glad to hear it. But the population is still expanding?

Yeah. With a negative acceleration.

So the expansion is dropping off fast?

liebertpub.com/doi/10.1089/env.2019.0014

@FaheemMitha Of Tehran? I don't know. This one's a special case.

@Færd The country in general.

But yes, I guess. It's becoming more and more expensive to live in Tehran (and other large cities). And people are having even less babies than the average for the country. So I suppose even Tehran is expanding with a negative acceleration now.

@FaheemMitha I think so.

I think the Indian birth rate is dropping too. Just not fast enough.

People are moving to the outskirts because the price of land and rent are insanely high.

So... It's complicated.

@FaheemMitha Hmm. Yours is a much more serious problem.

Most of India is very young. And they all insist on having babies. I must say, I don't get the attraction.

@Færd Wow wow, that's going to be a problem

@Færd That's understating it, if anything.

@M.A.R. Everything has its pros and cons.

Plus the govt consistently ignores the entire issue.

Some of them even seem to think it's a desirable feature, because it "drives" the economy. But there is a whole lot of crazy out there.

I think it serves them well to neglect the few lower deciles?

Those economic types can't seem to remember it's just one planet. Perhaps they think we are all going to emigrate to Mars or something. Perhaps another star system.

Zackly. That's what our government intends to do: encourage people to have more and more kids.

Has been doing it for years now.

@Færd Wonderful. Why?

The leader wants the population to double in a matter of a century or so.

@Færd That's insane.

@FaheemMitha The same reasoning as yours. Economics. Powerful nation. Etc etc.

They say the ageing population is going to be a problem.

Currently slightly over 80 million, right? Roughly the population of Germany.

Which it is. But we have to balance that with other disadvantages of population growth.

@Færd That's not a solution. Just kicking the can further down the road.

Right.

@FaheemMitha They also intend to preserve the traditional order of society with an emphasis on the family. They want more soldiers too.

I guess Germany is a smaller country than Iran. But it's also very developed. And isn't being attacked my sanctions and stuff.

Also, I think Germany's population is relatively stable.

But they won't succeed. The growth is dropping off despite their efforts.

@Færd Glad to hear it. One thing this planet definitely does not need is more people.

@FaheemMitha Yeah. One of their rationales for absorbing immigrants (more than other European countries) is to deal with the ageing population and worsening paucity of young work force.

That reminds me of the Bill Gates quote that went something like 'if we distribute healthcare evenly in Africa, we'd be able to prevent the population from getting to nine billion'

@Færd Right. Though probably not a great idea overall.

And conspiracy theorists LOVED the quote

@M.A.R. Hmm.

@FaheemMitha Why not?

Though I'm not in agreement with Trump on really anything, I think that pushing for highly educated people makes sense for purely selfish reasons.

They shouldn't accept immigrants?

Oh, here it is

@Færd Well, depends on the kind of immigration.

@M.A.R. Not a fan of Gates at all, but that sounds quite reasonable to me.

@FaheemMitha What do you mean?

He's probably the okayest billionaire in the building. Not counting those people who donated billions and live modestly

@Færd Well, I think highly educated immigration would make most sense for Germany, from a purely selfish perspective. I'm not saying they shouldn't admit whoever they want to. That's up to them, obviously.

I know he used shady tactics to get there in the first place

I think Gates is a pretty dodgy person. But he's not a raving maniac, either.

@M.A.R. Yeah it took education and time for contraceptives to catch on in Iran. It's going to take longer for some African countries.

The Gates Foundation awarded a prize to Modi. Just around the time that he did what he did in Jammu and Kashmir.

I think one of the staffers resigned.

@FaheemMitha Well. They're more open to less educated workers too, I guess, than most other places in the West. I think that makes sense.

@FaheemMitha That was terrible.

@Færd <Shrug.> I can't say I understand the issues, so whatever.

He got it for building toilets for half the population or something?

@Færd "Swacch Bharat". Yes, something like that.

That's nice, innit? Not to praise Modi or anything.

Oh I wanted to ask you about the opposition in India. I've heard the liberal opposition is even more corrupt than the ruling party? I have no idea.

@Færd Umm, not sure. I think there were a bunch of problems with it, but I'm not up on the details. One feature of Modi and his people is grand gestures without proper planning.

@Færd I hate the word "liberal". But it's mostly the Congress plus some regional parties. And yes, they're all pretty corrupt, though the RSS/BJP makes them look quite tame.

Hmm. Would you say they'd be worse for the whole of India if they were in power?

One big problem is that the opposition is in disarray. On the other hand, the RSS is pretty organized. They're supposed a sort of para-military outfit.

Maybe getting ready for a hostile takeover.

@Færd If who were in power? The Congress?

If yes, then, yes it would be better. Though not much better.

The RSS are fanatics, sure, but the whole country in disarray is a more frightening prospect, no?

I remember when the Congress was running things. They treated India as a feifdom. But mostly they left people alone, unlike the RSS/BJP.

@Færd Oh, things wouldn't be any more in disarray under the Congress.

Hmm.

Though they are also quite incompetent and corrupt.

India is a chaotic place at the best of times.

I thought the RSS people did keep some semblance of order, which is vital for a country like India.

Oh, and Gates also favored the Aadhaar Card. Idiot.

@Færd I don't think that's their focus. They're orderly internally. But the RSS might be a few hundred thousand people.

@FaheemMitha That's an RSS member?

Nobody can keep 1.3 billion mostly illiterate people in order.

Hmm.

@Færd Aadhaar? No, it's an identity card scheme. Biometrics. Very bad idea.

Ah I'd heard about it.

There was a whole big thing about it. Went on for years. Was challenged by the Supreme Court. Which unfortunately is now owned by the RSS.

Maybe they want to develop into the next China of the world, with a highly surveilled population.

See their insane verdict on the Babri Masjid. And they're refusing to rule on the constitutionality of the CAA.

@Færd The RSS? Yes, possibly. A lot of their moves seem to be in that direction.

But we're not China, so good luck with that.

The Aadhaar Card thing seems to be largely to spy on the population, I think.

And it was developed by a private company.

Of course they hasten to reassure people how it won't be used for anything bad. Ha ha ha ha ha.

How hard are you going to be hit by the climate crisis? That could hamper your development pretty sharply. Otherwise, the rule of the fanatics could be a passing phase, lasting for some decades, at most.

Modi and his people seem to be pushing development quite hard. Meaning large corporations?

No, I mean socio-political development.

Getting more democratic.

@Færd Very badly, probably. India is still mostly agrarian. And I read an article some time ago that said most of India's temperatures are already on the borderline at where crops can grow.

@Færd Oh, no no. The RSS doesn't care about that. Quite the reverse.

At least, I've seen no indication they do. They're a fascist organization. Why would they want more democracy?

They wouldn't, of course.

I suppose the response to that would be to have genetically modified crops.

Make some corporation richer. Hurray for Capitalism.

But if more people were to rise above poverty lines, at some point social development is unstoppable.

@Færd Well, India already has a middle class in some sense.

And there are lots of people above the poverty line. But lots more below.

But this is mostly defined by consumption. The education system is a shambles.

Let's say more education, and even less poor people. If the government makes that happen, they could be digging their own graves and paving the way for more democracy in the future, no?

And mostly even educated Indians don't seem very educated. If you know what I mean. A bit like Trump supporters, perhaps.

But if the climate crisis is about to destroy people's lives, that;s a different story.

@Færd The RSS would not help that happen, but it could happen. Even the Congress probably would not support that.

@FaheemMitha Yeah

I've never noticed that Indian govts were interested in either education or population control. I grew up in Bombay. Went to a Bombay school. Terrible experience.

As I constantly tell people. Perhaps I should try to get over it.

What I have in mind is our own recent history: younger people are bucking against the system that nurtured their education and the little livelihoods that they have.

@Færd Maybe you're better organized and educated.

India isn't.

It's mostly illiterate peasants.

That's not what the system intended to do. It wanted a more docile population that could work well and prosper timidly. But it wasn't what they got.

@FaheemMitha Yeah I'm saying that could happen in the future of Inida.

@Færd Good for the Iranian people.

@Færd It could happen, yes. It's hard to predict the future.

@FaheemMitha It remains to be seen. It's hard to predict our future too.

The RSS has already run into quite a lot of oppostion, specifically with the CAA.

Which judging by the RSS's reaction, was unexpected. At least, they didn't expect it.

Hmm.

Some of the biggest demonstrations in history. Possibly comparable to the Independence movement. And it's early days yet.

The CAA marks the first time the RSS has come out into the open in a big way.

I hope that's part of a pattern that's going somewhere.

They passed it, but otherwise things didn't go exactly as they expected.

@Færd I hope so. Hard to tell.

I was a bit surprised myself.

Okay it was very nice talking to you.

But the current worry is the US election.

@Færd Yes, nice talking to you too.

I need to go get stuff done

See ya

@Færd Take care.

Just took a quick look at the debate. It wasn't pretty, as expected.

Chart of new daily cases of covid in the Samara region of Russia

It amazes me how Putin's regime doesn't even try to hide the lie.

Haha beautiful graph.

@CowperKettle relatively fewer new cases per day per head than the UK, so it's doing well :p

@CowperKettle It's what you call "quiet data"—or, in this case, data that's been told to shut up.

Deepfake Putin is here to warn Americans about their self-inflicted doom

LOL @ headline

So ... if the speed of causality were infinite, everything would happen all at the same time?

@M.A.R. The difference is that annus horribilis is a thing, with the adjective matching the number (sg) and gender (m) and case (nom) of the noun. There is no such word as "horribilus". It's a third-declension adjective, not a first/second one. You may be thinking of horribilibus but that's a plural form in that dative (ind.obj) or ablative (~prep.obj). So maybe if you gave the bad years a wide berth you could have annis horribilibus.

@Robusto Define 'happen'

simultaneously

Yes but with no concept of time, does anything happen?

@marcellothearcane Any action of any kind occurring.

And don't ask me to define "action" or "occur" now.

No events after the first ever happened everywhere at the same time.

There's this thing that if everything was pefectly random, time wouldn't exist any more

Heat death or something

California is currently experiencing heat death of a sort.

Hopefully it's a less dramatic variety