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12:01 AM
@M.A.R. Who says they read?
Next you'll be wanting people to think before they talk. Pfft.
Proof that the Trump clan are even dumber than they look: ^
2 hours later…
2:06 AM
7 hours later…
9:29 AM
@Robusto who's she?
3 hours later…
12:07 PM
@M.A.R. Ghislaine Maxwell, the enabler and alleged procurer of underage girls for Jeffrey Epstein. Both are seen in the right of the picture labeled "flock together" next to Trump and his wife.
Epstein recently hanged himself in his jail cell in New York rather than face charges for multiple counts of sex crimes against minors.
Maxwell is now in jail facing charges as well.
12:52 PM
:54871914 Morning, Johan.
had to delete, was not sure if professional enough
I didn't get the reference.
So not a problem for me, in my ignorance.
not important, just a pun about the harry potter author
Surely it's up to the standards of the Multi-Layered Discourse Room, no?
how are things where you live?
12:56 PM
Good, but we're going to have a heatwave.
That will cut down some on my riding unless I can get up earlier than I currently can manage.
read that covid is on the rise
Well, yeah. There's that.
no fun
How's it in your country?
Better, cases still high but deaths down to zero and ICU also low.
Also covid was a thing earlier this year. I visited stockholm last weekend and had to wait 60 minutes in que for a restaurant :D
And it was not due to any distancing that I could see
We did not go there of course
1:03 PM
I don't blame you.
@JohanLarsson How is tourism?
Has mass tourism returned to Stockholm yet?
I would not expect many to come here
But inside the country it is maybe more than other years, dunno
We already have lots of foreign tourisms here, though still not nearly as many as normally.
ok, that is probably good
Yeah, but there are already too many tourists.
For the epidemic.
1:08 PM
Hopefully not
But our governments have learned: in case of an outbreak, they will now be much quicker to take firm measures, probably locally.
Do you know anyone who became seriously ill?
Do you mean respirator or worse?
1:26 PM
Umm anything you'd consider serious.
I have a colleague who was apparently sick for three months, though not in hospital, and who has still not fully recovered.
I normally never see her, so I didn't know.
She's probably in her fifties.
Or maybe very late forties.
no fun
have you tested for anti bodies?
My brother had covid and was sick for two weeks, no hospital but no fun either
@JohanLarsson Oh, dear.
I'm glad he recovered relatively quickly.
Did he have much trouble breathing?
I haven't been tested.
I haven't had the least symptom this year.
My neighbor have antibodies, he did not notice covid. He tested for fun I think
1:43 PM
I see.
Well, it's nice to know for him.
I never speak corona except for when I come here for some reason :D
or rarely at least
Oh, good.
1 hour later…
2:53 PM
@Robusto I suspected it would have to do with him, considering it's the trending scandal now, but I didn't even remember his face
3:18 PM
So in the midst of the pandemic, I see that my investment portfolio has reached a record high. I'm not complaining—that's how retirement savings are supposed to work—but there seems to be something very wrong that people with money are doing just fine while those struggling can't make their rent.
4:06 PM
Like what?
@Robusto hehe maybe what the pandemic has done is set back the economical clock. That sounds exactly like our economy.
Except maybe the side effects are ten fold
A dollar is 200000 rials AFAIK
I wonder if infinity is possible there. Seems plausible enough
4:30 PM
@M.A.R. Why don't you leave the country? That can help you stop nagging
@Gigili I can't tell if you're joking or not. If you're not, then that sentence's premise is based on faulty logic
A: What logical fallacy is "If you don't like it, move!"?

BreadIt is the False Dilemma or Bifurcation Fallacy. If you don't like it, then move. Let's say you have caused some problems by questioning the decisions, speech, and actions of someone who is actively seeking social, economic, and/or political power. And you're confident that you have every ri...

Well, I am not joking. I'd definitely make fun of something that has the potential or is funny. But you always exaggerating things is not something that I'd joke about
@Gigili The infinity thing is obviously a joke. Jokes exaggerate things to be funny. The 200000 rials thing is not a joke. It may be a false statement, but I doubt that.
"If you don't like it, move" undermines any criticism of the government, the norms of the society, or anything that's beyond the powers of the speaker to fix.
There's a third option: That I don't shut up, and I don't cut ties with all my relatives and friends and go abroad. Maybe things would go for the worse, but if you don't criticize a system, it will definitely not go for the better.
@M.A.R. you either move, or you try to cope with the situation, or in best case scenario you try to improve the situation
@Gigili What does "cope" mean?
To sit silently and sullenly and stare at the TV?
4:41 PM
@M.A.R. The logical fallacy is simply this: "Hey, fuck off!" That will refute most arguments not backed by military force.
@Gigili I hope you do know that "shut up or move" is the Republican defense against criticism of Donald Trump's actions.
So they cuff an Iranian professor at the airport for being Iranian. Let's shut up or cross American borders?
@M.A.R. What kind of logic is that? What will you achieve by criticizing?
Putin commits mass fraud in elections. Let's shut up or move elsewhere?
@Gigili Again, you're undermining the value of any criticism. Let's just pack it and move elsewhere, folks. Rating things is so 2019.
Feel free to look up criticize in the dictionary of your choice.
If it's not a rhetorical question, there are so many things a criticism achieves.
You assert your position on a matter, and a chatroom is for asserting things.
You vent, and you feel better.
You make it known to people not in the know what you believe the problems in a system or a book or a movie are, so it's some sort of caveat emptor.
Probably a few more, but I don't feel like listing them unless you start refuting what I'm saying instead of asking rhetorical questions and being snarky.
4:48 PM
@M.A.R. Those people are not involved in the system and they can do absolutely nothing about the issue.
@Robusto Yeah, I dunno, I find myself agreeing with the second answer more. It's certainly used to refute arguments in the normal sense, like some twisted version of Reductio ad absurdum: That criticism is empty because these are the only viable and practical options. But they're not, hence the bifurcation fallacy
@Gigili What should I, as someone involved, do? Sell dollars that I don't have so the price goes down?
@M.A.R. Watch your tongue
If you feel like you can't discuss it, simply do not. No need to be disrespectful.
@Gigili I suffer from it, everyone does, and I can complain about it. If you're asserting that it should have some highly moral or ethical recompense afterwards, no, it shouldn't. Not a single chat message here has that.
@Gigili I'm sorry if I offended you, but I fail to see how a word of what I've written has been impolite.
You keep asking rhetorical questions, that you do. And "feel free to look up criticize [...]" is also snarky. That it is.
Whatever, what a waste of time. Gonna get some studying done.
4:58 PM
I had a really clever thing to say, but then when I said it, it turned out to not be so clever.
That was it. That was the thing.
@Mitch I know the feeling.
That never stops me, though.
That's half of my meta.SE comments
They're usually a low-hanging fruit though
Question, is ELU's Dan Brown THE Dan Brown?
Unlikely, but still
5:23 PM
@M.A.R. I seriously doubt it. But if you think Lawler has a fan base here, wait to see what happens if the guy somehow reveals he's the DaVinci Code Dan Brown.
I haven't read his books. Not interest in religious-themed superstition, which they seem to be. Not that anyone really recommends them either.
He just seems to be riding on the zeitgeist?
The movies are absolutely horrible.
@M.A.R. I agree. But he's a celebrity, and people like to kiss celebrity ass.
5:40 PM
Is "nefast" a typo or poor translation? It's not a word I've ever heard before, and the only definition I can find is "nefarious", which doesn't seem to fit the sentence. — IMSoP 5 hours ago
@IMSoP yes, english is not my main language. Néfaste in french means harmful, I edited the question. — Spoutnik16 5 hours ago
Heh, so remove diacritics and weird-looking e's and French word → English word? Sounds simple enough
Good answer on an earlier discussion about the necessity of using masks:
A: How effective are face masks?

QwertieThere was a good article on face masks on SSC way back in March, which reviewed pre-existing evidence on face masks. I think a large reason the issue became contentious is the way that officials treated face masks as unnecessary in the beginning and then changed their minds later. I'm not sure wh...

@TCh @Cerb
Q: Diacritics and non-English letters in anglicized loan words: keep 'em, dump 'em, italicize the words, or what?

RobustoTake an expression like déjà vu. This is a French term which is frequently seen in English. In fact, it is included in English dictionaries. But it is often seen in English in a variety of forms: déjà vu déjà vu deja vu Now, one would probably not consider using frisson or soupçon...

@M.A.R. I think nobody denies that, if everyone should wear face masks 24/7, this would prevent some from sneezing out the virus and infecting others.
As to whether it protects the wearer, I think most experts suspect it may have some effect, but not a large effect.
But the big questions is: under which circumstances is it advisable to make face masks compulsory?
Nobody is looking for a 0 rate of infection.
But everybody wants to make it lower by a certain degree.
If you are on an island with zero international traffic and no known infections, it makes no sense to require face masks anywhere.
If you have a serious outbreak in a certain building where people absolutely need to be but they cannot keep their distance from others, it may very well be a good idea to require face masks, at least of those who aren't immune.
But the situations in between, combined with the uncertainties about the effectiveness of face masks, are difficult.
6:01 PM
@Cerberus It has a slight effect for that. Very slight. But people don't understand that the mask is to protect us as a group. Too subtle a point for many, I suppose.
1 hour later…
7:09 PM
@M.A.R. But Tom Hanks is in them.
Oh, you're not so little backs off slowly
Starts running
Horrible? The movies weren't terrible as thrillers. I feel like I must have read at least one of the books on some vacation where wifi was not available but even if I remembered I couldn't tell you about the prose because all the spoofing done in that article I couldn't notice unless someone pointed directly at it and said "Here. HERE!".
Like Game of Thrones is probably just as bad. If you like that dragon shit then good for you.
starts running
@Mitch I remember reading that lampoon of Brown's prose style some time ago. Pretty funny, and spot-on.
@Mitch No fair, I'm already quite a distance away and can't catch up
@Mitch Lol, this is genuinely funny
I remember it being funnier. Maybe I had just read some actual Dan Brown where it was obvious he did all those stupid things.
7:17 PM
Well IMO the movies failed as thrillers too
But I'm biased.
Every thrilling scene was sprinkled with idiotic plot holes or the characters doing idiotic things
@M.A.R. I vaguely remember being slightly entertained for less than 2 hours, and then immediately forgetting all but that. Maybe they visited a church? In Italy?
No that was Michael Corleone
@M.A.R. Oh. That comes from practice. Just close your eyes when watching.
And that's why you remember a church in Italy
@M.A.R. The same church? Seems unlikely?
@M.A.R. The one where Sofia Coppola was shot on the steps of?
7:19 PM
All churches in Italy are the center of some nefarious plot or other. It's kind of a rule.
There's only one Italy and thus only one church
And everybody laughed because she was as bad an actress as Dan Brown is a renowned author?
@Robusto Wait.. there's this one church in... oh.. yeah that one too.
@Robusto Wait, shot shot or movie shot?
shot shot and movie shot.
@M.A.R. Both, usually. But either will suffice.
7:20 PM
wait... shot shot in the shot movie.
How To Write Good, by Michael O'Donoghue
A great lampoon on people like Dan Brown, before Brown was even a thing.
> "And above all, never forget that the pen is mightier than the plow-share. By this I mean that writing, all in all, is a hell of a lot more fun than farming. For one thing, writers seldom, if ever, have to get up at five o'clock in the morning and shovel manure. As far as I'm concerned, that gives them the edge right there."
@Robusto That's taking me a while, but so far, it's like the recent video of cats reacting to sniffing durian, I'm having trouble stopping crying from laughing.
> The 190lb adult male human being nodded his head to indicate satisfaction and returned to his bedroom by walking there. Still asleep in the luxurious four-poster bed of the expensive $10 million house was beautiful wife Mrs Brown. Renowned author Dan Brown gazed admiringly at the pulchritudinous brunette’s blonde tresses, flowing from her head like a stream but made from hair instead of water and without any fish in.
Oh my God XD
@Mitch Yes. I first read that 50 years ago and it's still funny.
7:39 PM
OK finished. He gets run over by a truck at the end.
@Mitch I wasn't expecting that!
Great ending.
GoT theme ensues
I'm not a great judge of books, other than what I enjoyed and what I didn't, because I haven't read enough bad or good books to have the scale right
But GoT is, overall, very well-written, despite its lack of inclination to end
@M.A.R. You can cut out about 90% of your reading time by reading only the good ones.
For me, good writing is about voice. Before buying a book I read two or three pages and ask myself, "Can I listen to this voice for another 400 pages?"
@Robusto Well I'm that stage of life when slowly slowly, if the digital life ever allows, you can raise your head from textbooks and explore what else can be written on paper. So I've definitely not wasted much time reading bad books, because I've not spent enough time reading books that don't have to do with parasympathetic nerves or reactions of alkenes.
Yeah. Even a good voice isn't going to help those.
7:50 PM
Yeah sure, even sciency books and journals have their voice
Some people are just difficult to follow or like
Yes. My wife is just the opposite. She could read anything, anytime, anywhere.
I need to be able to enjoy whatever I'm reading.
Does that include garbage like the famous garbage that I think other people think of as garbage but I haven't read?
@M.A.R. Which? Mine or hers?
Does she read Meyer or whoever the author of 50 Shades is?
Not if she can help it.
7:53 PM
Heh, this chat's standards being high, I think Rowling's work has also been referred to as garbage
I don't read that kind of trash. I only read good trash.
@M.A.R. When my kids were into Harry Potter I tried—I really, really tried—to read Rowling. But I failed. Utterly and completely. I couldn't manage more than the first 50 pages of the first book.
I haven't ever tried.
I've tried to be persuaded into reading it, but failed every time.
Why should I read HP? "Because it's magical! In a world of magic, you can do anything!" "Because love" "Because friendship"
I'm not even kidding. That about sums up the good stuff I've heard about HP, besides "ZOMG really enjoyed it", which can or cannot be a compliment
Yeah. Not enough. It has to be good for me to read it.
And to me, that your average skinny teen has inseparable friends and goes on to do important stuff because he's been stamped as important since birth (I think) seems like shameless pandering
It even goes further than that. The bully was a bad guy in the end, who knew. The bad-tempered teacher turned out not deserving of your sympathy and a bad guy or maybe not a bad guy, who knew.
The world obviously revolves around this little pup and that I hate.
I'm thoroughly sick of the "Chosen One" trope.
8:02 PM
And if the fanbase of a work are any indication, this is what they're concerned about
Although, I might watch the movies. I like Ralph Fiennes almost everywhere I see him
Or like to hate him where I'm supposed to, you know how that goes
He was great in In Bruges.
Schindler's list
Yes! Playing a man utterly destroyed by evil.
8:06 PM
Have you seen The Grand Budapest Hotel? It's also from Wes Anderson
Of course.
<= Huge Wes Anderson fan.

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