English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

@MattE.Эллен This is all post hoc rationalizing. The house system all probably came from a bunch of boys sent off to 'school' which was really a way for monks to make money by teaching the brats how to read and write, so the monks put them in a ... let's call it a 'house' because, well, it was probably a house.

CowperKettle

@Mitch There are different definitions of Siberia. Usually they call Siberia the land to the east of the Urals. The Urals are considered a separate area.

Mitch

@CowperKettle Calling it all Siberia seems a little ... broad. Literally.

CowperKettle

3:15 PM

Where I live, the warm air from the Atlantic sometimes comes along. Farther east, it does not.

The Sverdlovsk oblast is the light organge triangle in the west of this picture.

skullpatrol

North Asia is a thing?

CowperKettle

Moscow is at the same latitude with Yekaterinburg, but much warmed thanks to the Gulf stream.

Riding a train to Moscow, you literally can see the nature becoming more lush.

The types of trees start to change after several hours on the train.

Mitch

@FaheemMitha So you've read that Orwell read Wodehouse when he was bored in the hospital sick as a kid or injured in battle or something. But (you may very well know already) that this story was in in his 'defense of Wodehouse' after WWII because Wodehouse was cancelled during WWII because of...

CowperKettle

In January, when I staid in Moscow with a friend, there was no snow cover. It felt like October in Yekaterinburg.

After several hours on the train back, it was all snow-covered.

Moscow is lucky, a warm city.

Mitch

@CowperKettle oh huh....it's kind of thing that one hears that by the end of October it already has started snowing in Moscow.

CowperKettle

3:20 PM

@Mitch The last several years were very odd in Moscow.

Usually there is snow cover in December, but not this year.

Global warming probably affects it.

Faheem Mitha

@Mitch Yes, I'm familiar with the circumstances surrounding the writing of that essay. Though "cancelled" is curious terminology.

CowperKettle

It is known that the German army stuck in trying to take Moscow in December, due to severe frosts.

Faheem Mitha

People vilified Wodehouse because of those broadcasts. For no good reason.

@Mitch I think Eric read a lot of Wodehouse as a child. Not necessarily when in hospital. People do read things when not in hospital, you know.

CowperKettle

Wodehouse, the guy who wrote funny stories?

Faheem Mitha

@CowperKettle Yes, him. Pelham Grenville Wodehouse.

Mitch

3:23 PM

@FaheemMitha Well it's a story. Wodehouse was living in northern France when the Germans came through in ... 1941 or so? And eventually they dragged him off to 'camp'. An internment camp? (not POW because he was old at that time, and not in the army just a citizen of... not the UK by then? and not a concentration camp or labor camp because... he was known as a celebrity? I don't know, he was sent to a series of what was called internment camps.

@FaheemMitha Ah good...so I don't need to repeat the whole story.

Faheem Mitha

@Mitch Yes, correct.

@Mitch I'm not saying I have a detailed knowledge of the Wodehouse episode.

But I've read a little bit around the subject. I think I've read at least one Wodehouse biography, for example.

If I recall, that's one reason he moved to the US.

Mitch

@FaheemMitha well, he was publicly vilified and I thnk sales of his books dropped quite a bit in the UK and maybe a call for charges of treson against him and other stuff that is basically the same as being 'canceled' nowadays.

And maybe that was way he rescinded UK citizenship?

Faheem Mitha

@Mitch Yes, right. I just think "cancelled" is an odd choice of words.

Is that because of the "cancel culture" meme?

Mitch

I think he was living in the US from 1910's?

Faheem Mitha

@Mitch Did he? I don't recall. Though maybe that was part of leaving the UK.

@Mitch He was?

Mitch

3:26 PM

@FaheemMitha Yes. but it's no longer a 'meme' it's what people say.

Faheem Mitha

Maybe so. I forget.

Mitch

@FaheemMitha I think maybe it (the potential charge of treason) was a reason he gave for never returning to the UK?

Faheem Mitha

It's actually odd that he was in France at the time. While the German advance was much faster than expected, it was also clear that Western Europe was not a healthy place to be during that period. He must really not have been paying much attention.

@Mitch Perhaps so.

For some reason that reminds me of the Nevil Shute novel, "Pied Piper".

About an old man who goes on a fishing holiday in the South of France during the summer of 1940.

Mitch

So a lot of people misunderstood his radio broadcasts. He thought he was dogwhistling to the UK public in very British understatement that the camps were awful and the Germans were awful and all that. But still there's a good case to be made for just doing anything for the Nazi's was collaboration.

Faheem Mitha

His son was in the RAF, and died in service (during the Battle of Britain, possibly) and he wanted to take his mind of it. That kind of worked out, but not in the way that he expected.

Mitch

3:29 PM

But supposedly the broadcasts were considered a good case study (by the Americans) in propaganda/subterfuge to use against the Germans.

@FaheemMitha I think in his memoirs/biographies he admits to that as much (not paying attention)

Faheem Mitha

@Mitch It wasn't a smart move. But Wodehouse wasn't the most politically aware person around. By 1940 he was already quite old, and probably was still mentally living in a previous period. Perhaps pre-WWI. The British always seem quite nostalgic about that period.

Mitch

and that's why Orwell thought he needed defending.

Faheem Mitha

The Edwardian era, as htey used to call him.

@Mitch Oh, he definitely needed defending. And Eric did a good job, as usual.

@Mitch I'm guessing you've read some Wodehouse yourself, otherwise you would presumably not care.

Mitch

Yes. and I must have read a biography or 'Performing Flea' or something to remember these things.

Faheem Mitha

@Mitch Yes, perhaps. I can't remember if I've read "Performing Flea" or not. I can't say I've ever found Wodehouse that interesting. Though in some ways he's quite a unique individual.

Not many writers get to create their own private universe.

Mitch

3:34 PM

But frankly my knowledge of Wodehouse was 1) somebody in college had a whole shelf of Wodehouse paperbacks, and they were enthused about it (both the shelf and Wodehouse) and I thought that weird because it was the first I ever heard of him), and 2) the Fry and Laurie eries from the early 1990's.

Faheem Mitha

@Mitch So you've read some of his stuff, then? I've seen some of the Fry and Laurie, though not much. And I don't think that series ran for long, either.

I've probably read a fair amount of Wodehouse over the course of my life, though not at all recently.

Mitch

@FaheemMitha I've read a handful of the novels and short stories and I find them entertaining, but I've never quite got why people gush over him, calling his writing so well crafted (I mean they're silly and fun but I guess I don't see what the big fuss is about).

@FaheemMitha that's what science fiction is for.

Faheem Mitha

There's a library in South Bombay called "J N Petit Institute". It's an old Parsi foundation. I think they bought a lot of stuff in the early 20th century, and most of it was still there, mouldering on the shelves, when I was a child growing up in Bombay. I used to go there with my father. Then later by myself. Hell of a waste of time, frankly.

Mitch

Ahhhh... there got all that off my chest.

Faheem Mitha

Anyway, they had a lot of early 20th century popular British fiction. I got some very weird ideas about the UK, reading them.

@Mitch He's a pretty good prose stylist. At least was, in his earlier years. Later he grew increasingly formulaic and repetitive.

Mitch

3:38 PM

@FaheemMitha I don't think you're alone.

Faheem Mitha

But reading his stuff isn't a bad way to get a sense for the rhythms and cadences of English prose. And the possibilities whereof.

Mitch

@FaheemMitha I think it was refinement of a pattern. But yes, I've heard that the things he wrote in the 50's and 60's were not up to the previous standard. But he was like 100 by then

Faheem Mitha

@Mitch Eighties. He died in 1975. He was in his 90s then.

That school novel I mentioned, Mike. was published in 1909. Even during Eric's time, that was a vanished age.

A lot of things changed in Europe in general, and Britain in particular, as a result of the First World War.

But those school stories are quite charming. And very readable. And his writing style had not grown ossified yet. And he pulls off the difficult trick of making cricket, possibly the most boring sport in human history, appear exciting.

He probably should have been a political scriptwriter or something.

Matt E. Эллен

@Mitch yeah, something like that, but probably a bit more modern. It'll from boarding schools, most likely, where a house would include the sleeping quarters, and each would have the house master, prefects, and whatever else happens at a boarding school. Houses would only need names once there were enough children that there need to be more than one of them

Faheem Mitha

@Mitch According to Wikipedia, he officially moved to the US in 1947.

The Nazi broadcasts are specifically mentioned in that connection, and I'm sure it was a major reason.

Færd

3:48 PM

@MattE.Эллен Thanks!

I thought there was a word other than pillion that escaped me and I couldn't find it. Maybe something old-fashioned related to horseback riding. But maybe I was imagining things and pillion it is.

@skillpatrol Thank you!

Mitch

@MattE.Эллен Yeah I think the HP things that non-UKer's noticed were the entire concept of prefect or head boy as some sort of enforcer.

ok and the idea of.a house as having a common type or goal.

Robusto

@MattE.Эллен In the US we call such a school a boarding school, sometimes a prep school, but a prep school doesn't have to be a boarding school. Probably some boarding schools in the US have adopted your house system.

Mitch

the whole quidditch sports fanaticism thing fits well with US high school though.

Færd

The term boarding school reminds me of Looking for Alaska. Nice story.

(better than the author's other novels, IMO)

Matt E. Эллен

@Mitch prefects I guess are akin to hall monitors? From what I've seen of American pop culture, head boy and head girl might be valedictorians sort of, but not exactly.

Faheem Mitha

3:58 PM

My school had a head boy and head girl, and prefects. Also, heads of each house.

Matt E. Эллен

@Robusto I think we have something called prep schools, too, although they might be an idea imported from the US :D

Faheem Mitha

All of this in fairly bizarre contrast to the surrounding. Namely, India.

Matt E. Эллен

@FaheemMitha vestiges I guess?

of colonial times

Faheem Mitha

@MattE.Эллен Well, yes, it was explicitly an imitation of British public schools.

But by my time, the British had long gone.

Robusto

American boarding schools continue the well-to-do Brits' tradition of shipping off your children after they reach a certain age.

Faheem Mitha

4:05 PM

@Mitch Other than quiddich being an exceptionally nutty sport. Doesn't make sense even on its own terms. But that's hardly news.

Mitch

@MattE.Эллен a hall monitor in US schools sounds like an analogous thing, but is not a prestige position at all. maybe someone who is dependable but not having anything to do with performance in school

Robusto

New organ in throat accidentally discovered by scientists researching prostate cancer

Lucky they couldn't find the prostate and were searching the whole body I guess?

Mitch

@FaheemMitha which is sort of the outsider's view of cricket or baseball or (american) football.

Faheem Mitha

@Mitch Not really. As has been remarked elsewhere, the only position that matters is Seeker, because when the Seeker catches the Snitch, the game ends.

Coincidentally, the position that Harry Potter plays.

Also his girlfriend Ginny, I think.

4:15 PM

@FaheemMitha That's all the Young Adult Novel plotting of 'it's all about me'

Robusto

@Mitch Which is an offshoot of the Chosen One trope.

Mitch

yeah

Faheem Mitha

@Mitch I think that's because he's the hero. The books are named after him. And Rowling isn't great at worldbuilding. Tolkien she isn't.

Matt E. Эллен

which is a copy paste of my life story.

Mitch

uh...

I think Rowling is one of the great world builders. arguably better than Tolkien. Certainly much more popular

Robusto

4:17 PM

@FaheemMitha She is also unreadable (to me). When my kids were into those books I really really really tried to go along with it, but could only manage 50 pages of the first one.

Mitch

@MattE.Эллен Wait... you're the protagonist in someone eles's movie?

Faheem Mitha

@Robusto Interesting. I found them actually mildly addictive.

Matt E. Эллен

@Mitch I'm The Protagonist

Mitch

@MattE.Эллен have my people call your people.

wait

turn that around.

Faheem Mitha

But I've read a lot of that sort of thing in the past. As a child I quite liked children's fantasy, particularly British children's fantasy. A thriving sub-genre.

Mitch

4:19 PM

call your people to have them be called by my people.

Matt E. Эллен

@Mitch I'll have my people call my people

Robusto

@FaheemMitha Fantasy, in my view, should be grounded in reality. Absent that, it's just nonsense. YMMV. And I realize this is a minority viewpoint.

Faheem Mitha

Rowlings' work is by far the most successful example of this genre in history.

@Robusto I agree with that. Not sure why you think it's a minority viewpoint.

Matt E. Эллен

@Mitch What makes world building good? I liked the potter stories, but as soon as you look under the hood the universe seems kinda wobbly. There are holes in LOTR, but far fewer

Robusto

@FaheemMitha Yes, and McDonald's is the most successful restaurant in the US.

Faheem Mitha

4:20 PM

Though "grounded" can hive different interpretations.

Mitch

I just heard the phrase 'hot pockets of covid' and thought... hm... I'd eat that.

spicy

Faheem Mitha

@Robusto That wasn't intended as praise. Just a description.

Robusto

@FaheemMitha It is with respect to Rowling.

Matt E. Эллен

@Mitch gross

Faheem Mitha

@Robusto Oh? Care to elaborate?

Why she is so popular is an interesting question.

Robusto

4:21 PM

@FaheemMitha Because of her success.

Faheem Mitha

Some very strong writers had worked in that genre.

But none of them have been even remotely as successful.

Robusto

Certainly. I much prefer Ursula K. LeGuin, for example.

Faheem Mitha

@Robusto I mean, you imply her work isn't grounded in reality.

@Robusto That's closer to young adult, possibly. Assuming you're referring to the Earthsea novels.

Mitch

@MattE.Эллен as a plot problem solving technique, magic is cheating because you can do anything.

Robusto

@FaheemMitha Hers is an "anything goes" ad hoc utilitarianism. If she needs an effect, she just declares it, at no cost to her characters.

Faheem Mitha

4:23 PM

That wasn't exactly who I had in mind, but she's a reasonable example, yes.

Mitch

@MattE.Эллен microwave on high

Faheem Mitha

@Robusto Agreed. It's not exactly a consistent, or even sensible universe.

For example, as those portraits sapient, or not?

Matt E. Эллен

@Mitch ehhh, I mean writers always set their own rules, but a good magic system has a sensible set of constraints.

Mitch

@Robusto right... cheating

Faheem Mitha

They certainly seem like it. And if they are, then those people aren't actually dead, are they?

Robusto

4:24 PM

@FaheemMitha First of all, the Earthsea novels transcend young adult, in my view. Second, that's not all she wrote. See The Lathe of Heaven, The Left Hand of Darkness, and The Dispossessed.

Faheem Mitha

@Robusto Yes, of course. But the latter novels aren't children works, exactly.

Robusto

Also, can we all agree that quidditch is a game designed by someone who has zero understanding of games?

Faheem Mitha

Not in the standard sense, anyway.

@Robusto I don't know anything about games, but I already said what I thought.

Robusto

@FaheemMitha Oh, so you place Rowling in the children's novels category?

Faheem Mitha

I'm most familiar with the first novel in the Earthsea cycle.

@Robusto Definitely. Wouldn't you?

Robusto

4:26 PM

@FaheemMitha The line is blurred.

Faheem Mitha

@Robusto All lines are blurred. But at least the earlier ones are definitely for chidren. The later ones are a bit darker, I guess.

Robusto

What is a children's novel? I read The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn at age 10, again at age 22, again at 34, and in my 50s.

It held up all the way.

Faheem Mitha

But the tone and contents don't shift markedly. Arguably much of mainstream fantasy is a bit infantile. Absolute good, absolute evil. Who but a child would believe in such things?

@Robusto That one is probably a bit unusual.

Robusto

@FaheemMitha 40% of the voters in America?

Faheem Mitha

@Robusto LOL

My favorite writer as a child was Diana Wynne Jones, who died in 2011 of cancer.

Robusto

4:29 PM

I've not heard of her.

Faheem Mitha

She was definitely a children's writer. I don't think she's well known at all.

Well, perhaps in her native UK.

Apparently she's very popular there.

She might be the world's leading exponent of the kind of thing Rowlings was trying to write.

@Robusto If you have the time to spare, you could try "Charmed Life", for example. Though there are many others to choose from. She was quite prolific.

Other popular options include "Howl's Moving Castle", "The Homeward Bounders", "Archer's Goon", and "Fire and Hemlock".

She wrote around 30-odd books in her lifetime.

If you have small children around, they might enjoy being read to.

She's part of an old tradition going back to George McDonald and Nesbit.

Robusto

In grad school I did a paper on children's novels, that one constant theme of them was that the children were almost always orphaned in some sense and had to find their own way and that often involved discovering a surrogate.

@FaheemMitha I will have a granddaughter in about a month, but she won't be reading for a few years. I'll keep that in mind.

Faheem Mitha

@Robusto Interesting observation.

Charmed Life is a good start, probably. It's quite short. If you are a fast reader, you could get through it in an hour. It's a good showcase for DWJ's strengths.

Robusto

I have marked it down.

Faheem Mitha

DWJ wasn't very popular or well-known, but she has had a dedicated fanbase since her early days. Actually, mildly fanatical might be closer to the mark.

I'm told that DWJ readers get their children to read them. If I had children, I would.

Robusto

4:38 PM

I had finished with children's novels pretty much by the time I was 10. I started reading adult science fiction at that age, and branched out from there to other kinds of literature.

Reading was the best thing about my childhood.

TaliesinMerlin

I like DWJ. I read Howl's Moving Castle, and I've been meaning to get to its sequel. I have a very small child, and DWJ is on the list to read once we're ready for chapter books.

CowperKettle

I had several thousand books in my flat, and I just read everything starting from age 5.

My father is a booklover.

Robusto

@CowperKettle That's how it starts.

CowperKettle

I usually spent two or three hours reading every evening.

Robusto

Same here.

CowperKettle

4:40 PM

I even had one book totally in English.

Something about circus.

I even tried reading it!

Robusto

I had to get my books from the library and they would only let me check out six books a week. We went to the library on Friday evening, and by Wednesday I was jonesing for reading matter.

CowperKettle

Unfortunately, the first word in that book was The. I looked it up in the dictionary and understood that English is something maddeningly complex. And stopped reading it. The dictionary description left me completely dazzled.

Robusto

@CowperKettle Hahaha! A discomfiture that has continued to the present day.

Faheem Mitha

@CowperKettle Sounds familiar. Were they in Russian?

Robusto

@CowperKettle Don't fret, I feel the same way about the soft and hard signs in Russian. I can't even hear the difference.

Faheem Mitha

4:43 PM

@TaliesinMerlin Unfortunately the sequels aren't as good. But I think there are two, and I may only have read one. I forget.

@Robusto I used to read a lot of SF too.

But I liked fantasy for a long time. I don't read it much at all now, though.

Hardly at all, really. Actually I read very little fiction these days.

Robusto

Nor do I.

I mainly read non-fiction now. Possibly this is a problem with getting older.

CowperKettle

@FaheemMitha Yes, in Russian ))

@Robusto Yes, they are complex ))

Faheem Mitha

@Robusto I've got distant memories of being 8 years old and trying to read 15 books at once.

They probably weren't the most complex, though.

CowperKettle

Faheem Mitha

@CowperKettle How would you rate your Russian vs English skills? Just curious.

CowperKettle

4:46 PM

I loved reading Soviet Sci-Fi as a child

Robusto

@FaheemMitha Yes! I would first read a chapter of each of my six weekly books in order to decide which one I would read first. It was like sampling from different dishes to decide on which course to begin the feast with.

CowperKettle

@FaheemMitha I am Russian, so naturally my Russian skills are much higher ))

Faheem Mitha

@Robusto Yes, I think I used to skip around too.

CowperKettle

I also had a grown-ups edition of the Thousand and One Night, that was interesting.

Robusto

@CowperKettle What does Vsadniki Piotkyda mean?

Faheem Mitha

4:47 PM

I have a very nice Russian children's novel somewhere in the house. It's called "The Adventures of Pencil and Screwbolt".

CowperKettle

@Robusto "Riders from out of nowhere", a nice book in which mysterious huge clouds appear over the North Pole, and a team of Soveit scientists goes to investigate.

Faheem Mitha

@CowperKettle That does not necessarily follow, but ok.

Robusto

@CowperKettle I probably would have liked it.

@CowperKettle Yes, I read those very early on.

I loved the exotic. Still do.

CowperKettle

I recall that in the Thousand of One Night there were descriptions of sexual intercourse, unlike in the kid's editions.

@FaheemMitha I never heard of that novel

Faheem Mitha

@CowperKettle amazon.com/Pencil-Sorbokormar-Adventure-Adventures-Screwbolt/dp/…

CowperKettle

4:51 PM

The Wizard of the Emerald City

The Wizard of the Emerald City (Russian: Волшебник Изумрудного Города) is a 1939 children's novel by Russian writer Alexander Melentyevich Volkov. The book is a re-narration of L. Frank Baum's The Wonderful Wizard of Oz. Baum's name is sometimes credited in the book (in the appendix by Volkov, which is found in some editions, where Volkov describes the origins of his book). The names of most characters are changed, some elements of Baum's novel are removed, and some new elements are added. The book was illustrated by Leonid Vladimirski in 1959 and became quite popular in the 1960s, leading to five...

I loved this re-telling of the Wizard of Oz

Faheem Mitha

@CowperKettle Baum is a fun writer. I've read some of the Oz series. There are quite a few of them.

@Robusto Well, one eventually has other things to do. And there is an element of been there, done that. And honestly, most fiction isn't very good. Especially if one is sensitive to language.

CowperKettle

Dunno

Dunno, or Know-Nothing or Ignoramus (Russian: Незнайка, Neznayka that is Don'tknowka (ka - the Russian suffix here for drawing up the whole name in a cheerful form); from the Russian phrase "не знаю" ("ne znayu"), don't know) is a character created by Soviet children's writer Nikolay Nosov. The idea of the character comes from the books of Palmer Cox.Dunno, recognized by his bright blue hat, canary-yellow trousers, orange shirt, and green tie, is the title character of Nosov's world-famous trilogy, The Adventures of Dunno and his Friends (1954), Dunno in Sun City (1958), and Dunno on the Moon...

And this was a nice book. ))

Faheem Mitha

A lot of books, reading them is like being dragged through a hedge naked. Not pleasant.

CowperKettle

Especially the part where Dunno travels to the Moon, which turns out to have a "capitalist" system, and tries to survive in its society ))

Robusto

@FaheemMitha True. And I've always found that certain writers just don't have a voice I can listen to for very long.

Faheem Mitha

4:55 PM

@Robusto Agreed.

Unusually, a Time article that is actually interesting - time.com/longform/democrat-midterm-strategy

Mitch

@CowperKettle haha that sounds like some part of the plot of Le Guin's 'The Dispossessed'

Robusto

@Mitch Indeed.

Mitch

So she could have gotten the idea from ...Nosov?

SmokeDetector

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Bad keyword in body, potentially problematic ns configuration in body (96): Why to opt for a Wikipedia content creation service by Rebbeca on english.SE

RegDwigнt

5:11 PM

@FaheemMitha Gould was everything but a someone. If you're not familiar with the name, you're missing out big time.

A more learned man than I can ever hope to be.

Doesn't mean that we always agree, but doesn't mean that we don't always agree because of that.

His conclusions may or may not be his alone. But you always understand how he gets there.

Faheem Mitha

@RegDwigнt I'm a little bit familiar with his name.

@RegDwigнt I didn't say I disagreed with his opinions.

Though they are certainly refreshingly... unusual.

Robusto

6:35 PM

@RegDwigнt You should watch this film sometime:

Thirty Two Short Films About Glenn Gould

Thirty Two Short Films About Glenn Gould is a 1993 Canadian biographical anthology film about the pianist Glenn Gould, played by Colm Feore. It was directed by François Girard, with a screenplay by Girard and Don McKellar. The film is presented as a series of 31 short films rather than as one narrative. Segments include documentaries, consisting of interviews with individuals who knew the real Gould, and reenactments of episodes in Gould's life. "Gould Meets McLaren" employs animated spheres from Norman McLaren's filmography. The film received positive reviews and won four Genie Awards, including...

M.A.R.

7:46 PM

@CowperKettle Lol how did that happen. Evolution is weird.

tchrist

9:18 PM

@Robusto Getting worse here. Repacking Go-bag etc.

Estes Park has AQI=290.

Cerberus

9:44 PM

Oh, dear.

Do keep us posted.

RegDwigнt

> [someone] posted discussion "#metoo" in group "Short pieces for piano"
I wrote this for anyone who has been a victim of abuse
[link]

Hashtag FFS more like.

Also, #TooYearsTwoLate.

@Robusto I only watched a documentary about him on an arts and culture channel. I think it was like two hours almost. Mostly with him in his own house. At some lake in Canada or wherever. Why do we even watch things if we forget them all anyway...

Anyway, yeah. Was a good documentary. Probably on YouTube by now but I wouldn't know the title. Other than that, so far I've much preferred watching like, I dunno, Bernstein. I know there's a ton of material on Gould out there, but you need to be in the mood for him.

In other side notes, looking through the sidebar: Der Postillon is the German equivalent of The Onion.

SmokeDetector

11:05 PM

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Bad keyword in title, potentially bad keyword in body, potentially bad keyword in title (100): Aol 8449326261 Aol Email technicall Support Number US/California by hr8h4harami on english.SE

Robusto

@tchrist Yikes. If they tell to leave don't wait. Just go. I do hope it doesn't come to that.

tchrist

11:42 PM

@Robusto Right now only the low bright-white smoke in the foreground is the nearest fire, the Calwood Fire, now just shy of 10,000 acres. The background steely-grey, bruised-purple, and seething ochre pyrocumulous are from the more distant East Troublesome Fire across the Divide and further away. It's burning exceedingly hot right now. They did evacuate another Lyons neighborhood though.

Robusto

How close is Lyons?

tchrist

Smoke from the gargantuan Cameron Peak Fire well over 200,000 acres now isn't in my immediate view right now, and I think that the smaller 460-acre Lefthand Fire at Ward isn't contributing right now.

Lyons is at the top right. I'm at the bottom right just a wee smidgen to the left of the tiny red dot.

That interactive map is here.

I'm at 40.0446922 N by 105.2908039 W.

Cerberus

Pretty close.

How's the wind?

tchrist

Just below the yellow Evacuation Warning area.

@Cerberus Troublesome.

Cerberus

Hmm.

tchrist

11:48 PM

It's running about 60 mph up high.

Cerberus

In the wrong direction?

tchrist

The colors are intense.

The high winds are from NW but the low winds are running the opposite direction from the SE. Or maybe I have that reversed. The point is that it's a pair of superimposed diagonals each running opposite the other.

Cerberus

I would imagine the low winds matter most?

tchrist

Depends which fire.

The low winds are going to make it run the ground.

The high winds will throw embers great distances.

Robusto

High winds make the fire move faster.

Cerberus

11:51 PM

I see.

Robusto