English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

Tonepoet

12:38 AM

@RegDwigнt cdn.imgbin.com/16/2/13/…

Weird, one last try:

Cerberus

2:07 AM

@Robusto It depends!

A title is not something that is necessarily 100% fixed.

If there is a good reason for some property of a title, then we shall keep it like that.

But do we write it in capitals, if that is how the author would prefer to write it?

In something as fixed and formulaic as a library catalogue, there are reasons why you want to stick to the title exactly as the work was registered somewhere.

But in a running text?

@RegDwigнt I don't have it either.

But you might have watched it at a friend's house, or online, or whatever.

Or at least heard about it from disgruntled relatives.

Robusto

3:32 AM

@Cerberus I just said above that was the art director's doing.

I really don't know why this seems such a bitter pill for you to swallow.

Here, Wikipedia gets it right:

West Side Story

West Side Story is a musical with book by Arthur Laurents, music by Leonard Bernstein and lyrics by Stephen Sondheim. It was inspired by William Shakespeare's play Romeo and Juliet. The story is set in the Upper West Side neighborhood in New York City in the mid 1950s, an ethnic, blue-collar neighborhood (in the early 1960s, much of the neighborhood was cleared in an urban renewal project for Lincoln Center, which changed the neighborhood's character). The musical explores the rivalry between the Jets and the Sharks, two teenage street gangs of different ethnic backgrounds. The members of the Sharks...

Titles are titles. We can't just start calling Tennessee Williams's A Streetcar Named Desire something like A Streetcar Desire or whatever else just because it suits us.

More to the point, we can't suddenly split Hamlet into two words: Ham Let.

Or join King Lear into Kinglear.

It's just all kinds of wrong. You, who keeps the "a" in diaeresis ought to be willing to hold the line on this, oughtn't you?

Some things are sacred, or ought to be.

SmokeDetector

4:41 AM

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Email in answer (76): Title of a widow? by Roshan thilanka on english.SE

SmokeDetector

8:32 AM

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Offensive answer detected, toxic answer detected (160): difference between "can do nothing" and "cannot do anything" by The best gamer on english.SE

SmokeDetector

9:16 AM

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Few unique characters in answer (87): What do you call a situation when you can't find the things you are currently looking for but finding it when you're not looking for it? by user354512 on english.SE

Cerberus

12:59 PM

@Robusto We could if there were good reasons. Which I'm not saying there are in this case.

Færd

4:30 PM

Aretha Franklin - Day Dreaming

►

Where, I don't care.

RegDwigнt

6:52 PM

@Cerberus quit bickering, go listen to a waltz. musescore.com/user/27897310/scores/5642197

SmokeDetector

8:31 PM

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Bad keyword in body, potentially bad asn for hostname in body, potentially problematic ns configuration in body (98): Hack Mudah Super10 by CheatPasti on english.SE

Robusto

9:01 PM

@RegDwigнt Nice. I'm not sure how you +1 there, if you have to be a member or whatever.

parvin

Hi guys, how can I use "ternate" as an adjective in a sentence? Like, is it correct to say "ternate piano" for three pieces in concatnation?

RegDwigнt

9:33 PM

@Robusto it's okay, you weren't meant to see that one, you were meant to see this one: musescore.com/user/36255/scores/5616191

Seriously, that is the single most bizzarrest thing I have seen in my life entire.

And I have seen Lenin in the mausoleum.

> All the words and lines used in titlesand elsewhere come from Flaubert's Un Coeur Simple . After Shakespeare and Virginia Woolf he is the writer I feel has the most to offer . Please send money ! I need more books and I want to visit Versaillesand I need to visit Lagos and Dubai and buy more books and movies with sexy menin them and I really need some mo'laptops ad huge 30 inch monitors and sum hotdogs ! The writer on cover sheet is Armand Salacrou .

RegDwigнt

9:47 PM

There. I need to preserve it for posterity. This needs to be remembered.

That's the actual first two pages of his score.

And yes, to give the man a +1 you will need to create a free account.

I don't need +1s, you can give me mine on YouTube if I ever actually manage to entice my piano master to tune the instrument so I can record the piece. And then I would still need to scan in a ton of old family pictures to actually make the video. That will take a while. Don't hold your breath.

Mitch

@parvin 'ternate' is not a word. Or at least I've never heard of it before. And though it seems to have something to do with 'three', a 'ternate piano' is some kind of -piano- not some kind of piano piece. That said, 3 pieces in succession would be called by musicians a 'piece in three parts'

RegDwigнt

That's actually my mom in the picture on my waltz, BTW. At my late nan's piano. At which I would later learn to play, too. It's still in Moscow. I miss it at times.

Cerberus

10:41 PM

@RegDwigнt Nice.

If you'd lived in the 19th century, you'd be posthumously famous now.

So how does it work? That doesn't sound like Midi?

RegDwigнt

10:56 PM

@Cerberus that is MIDI alright.

But you're accustomed to the MIDI sound of a piano, because a) piano is actually not that hard to render in MIDI, as opposed to a violin or a clarinet, say, and b) because of that there's a lot of electric pianos out there, and have been for many decades, which makes you more accustomed and accepting still.

That said, I have put quite some work into that particular score to better approximate a human player. Going over each individual note and slightly changing the tempo, volume, and articulation here and there. I've hidden all of that in the score, so you can't see any of it. But you can very much hear it.

> CowInDaGrass has added discussion "i'm felling Russian" in group "Piano" 19 minutes ago
looking for some Russian piano music any one know any?

Sheesh. Some people.

This person is literally asking if anyone knows any Russian piano piece. What the hell.

Cerberus

@RegDwigнt Ahah.

Well done, then.

@RegDwigнt Russian piano music? Like, by whom?

Are there any Russian composers?

RegDwigнt

I dunno. I think there was one. But I forgot the name.

Cerberus

@RegDwigнt I...don't know what to say.

Wherever did you find that?

And what is it??

RegDwigнt

@Cerberus it's still nowhere near what an acoustic instrument would give you, because what you have with MIDI is that the sample for each note is "pre-recorded", so to speak. You can play it back louder or softer, longer or shorter. But you can't change the actual waveform. It always looks exactly the same.

Cerberus

I see.

RegDwigнt

11:09 PM

But again, that's what e pianos do. Rob right there plays one. I used to play one myself.

You press a key, and it plays back a MIDI over the loudspeaker.

So you might as well cut out the middleman and just use a computer instead.

No need for an actual instrument.

@Cerberus on MuseScore. Every score of that person's looks like that. He has 700 followers, too.

Like, look at this one: musescore.com/user/36255/scores/5372592

I'm not making it up. People actually do that for real and not as a joke. And other people actually look at it and listen to it and demand more of it.

The Internet is a weird place.

The link to the score of which I posted the screenshot above is musescore.com/user/36255/scores/5616191

Cerberus

Ah, I hadn't even looked at the score yet.

@RegDwigнt That score looks like gibberish?

So is it just a spam bot?

The text looks spammish.

RegDwigнt

No it doesn't look like gibberish at all. Only an actual human can write shit like that.

He's just very very very into boys. And money. To buy books with pictures of boys.

Most people keep that information to themselves. But he is still a boy himself so he doesn't know any better.

Cerberus

Hmm.

He is a child?

The weirdly photoshopped pictured look like random weirdness as well.

RegDwigнt

There's like three people on MuseScore who are adults.

Every single forum post and every single profile and every single score begins with "hi im a 13year old boy from [wherever]"

Cerberus

Oh, gosh.

But why?

Because of the social thingy?

RegDwigнt

11:19 PM

And I'm sure it only does that because of the US restrictions. That apply to SE as well, as you know.

Or Facebook. Or everything.

You need to be 13 to be allowed to register.

I am very sure quite a few of those "composers" are not even 9.

Cerberus

@RegDwigнt What does what?

Oh, never mind.

RegDwigнt

The ToS for every site ever say you must be 13 at least. Because of some US law.

Cerberus

I understood the first sentence once I continued reading.

RegDwigнt

I figured.

Cerberus

Still, one might expect serious composers to use such a tool as well.

RegDwigнt

11:22 PM

Bill Gates doesn't post comments on YouTube, and Daniel Barenboim doesn't post scores on MuseScore, if you understand what I'm saying.

@Cerberus there are professional-level tools that professionals use.

Sibelius, Dorico, Finale.

This here literally is a toy for kids. And so it gets used as such.

Cerberus

I see.

But you use it.

RegDwigнt

Yes, and as I said I did manage to come across a handful of serious composers.

But only a handful. And I've been using it for some eight months now.

Cerberus

So, if you use it, then why don't many more serious people do so.

RegDwigнt

Sturgeon's Law. 90% of people are shit.

And 90% of the remaining 10% are also shit.

And so on.

Cerberus

Zeno would disapprove.

RegDwigнt

11:25 PM

Zeno is dead.

Anyway, the reason serious people tend to use the professional tools is because the professional tools tend to have better sound libraries.

Not by a huge degree, and certainly not to a sufficient degree. But better nonetheless.

Me, I just don't have the money to waste on Sibelius. I would if I had. But I'd rather spend it on violin lessons. Or on buying a harp or a cello.

Or a concert grand maybe. One day.

It's the same reason why all my YouTube videos are filmed with a mobile phone, edited on the mobile phone, and uploaded from the mobile phone.

Cerberus

I see.

RegDwigнt

I could buy a proper camera and three microphones and a music workstation. Or I could buy a cello and some beers.

Cerberus

Hmm you no longer edit on your tablet?

A cello is no more expensive than a proper camera?

RegDwigнt

I do. I just worded it that way for reasons of symmetry.

Cerberus

Hmm ahh.

Symmetry > truth.

RegDwigнt

11:32 PM

It's called a figure of speech, silly.

I am not here to sound truthful. I am here to sound beautiful.

@Cerberus a cheap beginner's instrument starts at 3000 Euro. Not sure what a cheap beginner's camera starts at.

A moderately good cello is like 15k and upwards.

Moderately good as in, you won't see it in an actual orchestra.

Cerberus

Hmm I didn't know you could buy one at 3000.

RegDwigнt

You can get a cheap Chinese make off Amazon starting at 200 Euro. But those are literally made of cardboard, not wood.

Cerberus

Literally, eh.

Funny.

Is the sound atrocious?

RegDwigнt

Or maybe illiterally, rather.

@Cerberus it's actually quite hard to get any sound out of it at all.

Cerberus

So I imagine.

RegDwigнt

11:35 PM

It won't vibrate properly.

At that size it really matters.

With a violin or a guitar you can get away with it to a much bigger extent.

With a cello or doublebass, you need a proper huge plank of good wood.

Cerberus

Hmm.

It's interesting how they still can't be produces industrially, even after so many centuries.

RegDwigнt

Well they can, and to an extent are. But wood is a living thing. Every fibre is different. And so you have to treat every piece of wood differently.

You don't have to, but if you do you'll get better results.

Cerberus

I see.

And no other material will work as well.

RegDwigнt

The force exhibited on the wood by the strings is considerable. Even for the violin with its four strings it's around 30 kg. For an upright piano, it's 25 tons. For a concert grand, like seven tons more.

Which is why a piano has to have that cast iron frame. Otherwise the wood would just shatter into pieces.

Cerberus

That's a lot!

RegDwigнt

11:43 PM

It sure is. Many people underestimate it.

Like, on that one violin channel I follow they discussed it just earlier today with a violin maker. 30 kg means that if you take off the strings, you can have a 10-year old child step on the violin and nothing will happen. It will carry the weight.

It looks brittle, but it's everything but.

Cerberus

If it steps on the violin in the right direction.

RegDwigнt

Yes, direction matters and so does speed.

But yeah, it's the same as with carbon fibres. It weighs nothing and it's teeny-tiny fibers you can't even see with the naked eye. But you can build a truck out of them.

With wood it's lignin, or whatever it's called in English.

Also fibers. Also lightweight.

Absolutely everyone I've ever given my violin to was surprised how lightweight it was.

Cerberus

And cobwebs are probably even stronger!

RegDwigнt

Yeah.

And much of the weight is actually the shoulder rest and the chin rest. And the strings.

Cerberus

Are the strings that heavy?

RegDwigнt

11:56 PM

Not at all. That's my point.

Cerberus

But if the strings are "much of the weight" of a violin.

That sounds heavier than one would expect.

Even considering how little a violin weighs.

RegDwigнt

Well. If you hold a set of strings in your hand, you know you're holding quite some steel right there.

Cerberus

Hmm.

RegDwigнt

If you hold a bridge or a soundpost or even a whole soundboard, it's like holding air.

You must have a violin maker nearby. Go pay them a visit, ask them for one E string, then ask them for a spare bridge. See for yourself. Or just hold a whole violin while you're there.

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