English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room - 2018-04-22

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4:07 AM

@Færd I believe they are not officially allowed.

Some of their songs are catchy indeed.

I heard the word "woman" a lot: the lyrics don't seem to be particularly revolutionary, no.

0

Q: Looking for a word that means something like "an oversimplified model such that it is no longer practically useful due to loss in accuracy"

I recall that there is a single word that means approximately this stated definition but can't seem to find it by using google. I believe I read the word in the context of something regarding politicians passing poor laws based on such models. I think that it would be useful for others wonderin...

single-word-requests

5 hours later…

8:50 AM

0

Q: what idiom you be used when a person is wrong in accusing others for what he himself is suppose to do

What adjective/idiom/proverb you would use in below case. As a politician and now served Minister, the Minister is accusing various authorities like the municipalities for not doing the public grievance tasks while the minister himself on a separate level is not approving those jobs in first pla...

single-word-requests phrase-requests adjectives

2 hours later…

10:59 AM

0

Q: "scrutinisation"

I am looking for a word to express the method for presenting information that is found when a person is under scrutiny. The way investigate becomes investigation, I was hoping that scrutinise would become scrutinisation. Unfortunately, my research tells me that there is no such word, and it br...

single-word-requests

2 hours later…

12:33 PM

0

Q: What is a business equivalent of "Frog in the well"

What is a business phrase or adjective for "Frog in the well"

single-word-requests phrase-requests

2 hours later…

3:00 PM

0

Q: Word for not being able to focus on one task

In Hebrew, my native language, we have a word describing the inability of one to focus on a certain task and instead thinking or doing one or many related/unrelated things. This word roughly translates to "being scattered" or "being dispersed". Are there any other more appropriate words to descri...

single-word-requests translation hebrew

3:33 PM

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Few unique characters in body, mostly dots in body: tense of the verb by mathlearner on english.SE

4:16 PM

0

Q: Usage of 'airman' vs 'pilot' in 1939 England

Can a civilian in 1939 England use the general term 'airman' to describe a man who is undergoing pilot training but has not yet completed it. Or does the term 'airman' in the RAF always refer to auxiliary crew and the civilian would already be using 'pilot' to differentiate? Thanks for your advice!

single-word-requests word-usage british-english military

4:41 PM

I hear some Americans pronounce best, guest, guess etc with almost an /æ/ (like bast etc). Dunno which accents feature it, or if it has anything to do with the following /s/.

5:08 PM

How odd.

A genetic tongue aberration?

5:35 PM

0

Q: What do you call the area of a park that has children's play equipment?

I'm looking for a word or phrase to describe the area of the park that has swingsets, jungle gyms, and other sorts of children's play equipment. "They went to the [word or phrase] to go play on the jungle gym."

single-word-requests

0

Q: Noun to describe state of a word’s capitalization

Is there a noun to describe the state of a word’s capitalization? I can think of ‘lower-casedness’ or ‘upper-casesness’, but is there a more succinct expression?

single-word-requests

5:48 PM

@Færd Any link to youtube or other sound for this? It looks like the opposite of the Northern Cities Shift

Also, the US Southern pin-pen merger is further away (high-mid front) from a pin-pan (low-mid front) movement or merger

6:13 PM

Is prolificness really the noun form of prolific ? I feel like there's a better construction (something maybe from the root-up/etymologically). Is proliferous okay if the non-plant nature of my sentence allows people to infer the meaning of the word in context ?

Or do I just wing it with prolificity ?

Wait a minute, proliferous isn't a noun either...

6:34 PM

@Mitch I'd noticed it before, but today when I was watching the Florida Project (what a fantastically realistic film!) it got really transparent that there really are people who talk like that. On the film it's the young mother.

Here's an interview with them: youtube.com/watch?v=lh9vpqcIczI Notice how she says, "I had naver been on a sat ...".

And how she says head here: youtu.be/eTSSApFkmzA?t=75

@Cerberus It could sound kinda breezy or carefree or even sexy to me. Or maybe less educated at times. But I'm not a good judge on this.

And maybe it sounds perfectly normal to the people who speak in this accent daily.

@HsMjstyMstdn There's prolificacy too.

Hmm, isn't that an adjective, though ?

oh no, it's a noun

0

Q: Word girl for woman in informal conversation

Can I use word girl about a woman of 40-45 years? Could it be suitable and inoffensive for her in a friendly atmosphere? Of course I understand woman is suitable for this age better. But it's used in a friendly conversation and I'm very familiar with this woman. She's very lively, cheerful, opti...

single-word-requests word-choice word-usage

Oh no, that's a noun, meaning the same as prolificness.

Yeah.

Aight, that sounds a bit better

:D

There's also prolificity, but I'm not sure if it's used anywhere outside dictionaries.

It is apparently: books.google.com/ngrams/…

But prolificacy is the most common and maybe the best-sounding among them.

6:55 PM

@Færd Right, prolificity sounds better

but is unrecognised

7:23 PM

@Færd My impression of her accent (not strong) is that she's ... annoying sounding. That is, it is too subtle for me beyond 'hm, yeah she might be talking different but it's hard to specify exactly how').

Wikiing her background, she was raised in Brooklyn, NY. How she talks is not at all strong like theFran Drescher Accent. I can't tell if the two women sound alike or not. I also can't tell if Fran Drescher moves 'set' to 'sat'

Listening over and over, I think you're right that Bria does have a slight shift from 'set' to 'sat'.

I am not a professinoal listener though

@Mitch you actually listen to stuff, huh

@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ Correct, but not professionally

I feel like I half to listen every so often if only to keep track of the plot

Also, I haven't seen The Florida Project. too real life and I heard it doesn't end well.

@Mitch I haven't either. I should!

Is it family friendly?

@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ probably not. from the wiki page (which gives away the ending) it sounds like, even though the previews look like just a little girl getting into a little harmless trouble ("engaging in mischief, mooching from tourists, stealing, and other misbehavior"), her very young mom eventually slips into prostitution.

@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ to unmix convos, do you have a local accent?

@Mitch :/

@Mitch I don't know if I have an accent

7:37 PM

@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ also mild drugs

No one to talk to

@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ other people..pfft

@Mitch everyone uses acetaminophen

@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ in the movie, cannabis

@Mitch That's just overrated codeine

7:38 PM

@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ You're the chemist, you'd know best.

@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ but to your point, you should operate heavy machinery after taking cough medicine, true.

@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ I say a few things that those around me probably don't say ('y'all',... um... some other southerner things I'm sure, but can't remember (I'm from the south)), but living in the north, people, if they're being unnaturally open (as it is unnatural to be so open in the north), will ask me, in that Naive American way, why I don't have an accent.

(because I am 'from the south' I must have an accent)

@Mitch Damn I thought she was from NY.

That occurred to me when the accent struck me as a special kind of mm low-class? and then my mind drifted towards NY accents.

@Færd Florida is interesting. in the north half of Florida, it is really like southern Georgia. In the south half, it is very Puerto Rican/Cuban/with a lot of older retirees from up north.

a lot of people move to FLorida from any where else. so really should have a GenAmE accent.

Aha.

@Færd Good ear

Where did you grow up?

7:46 PM

Virginia

Ah. I have no idea about how you guys sound.

But when I visit, I hear either no accent at all, or only the slightest of things that don't sound special at all to me.

OK. I see.

@Færd It's historically part of the South, but not considered Deep South

Right.

7:48 PM

The Deep South is a cultural and geographic subregion in the Southern United States. Historically, it was differentiated as those states most dependent on plantations and slave societies during the pre–Civil War period. The Deep South is commonly referred to as the Cotton States, given that the production of cotton was a primary commodity crop. == Usage == The term "Deep South" is defined in a variety of ways: Most definitions include the states Georgia, Alabama, Arkansas, South Carolina, Mississippi, and Louisiana. Texas is also included, due to its history of slavery and as being a part of the...

I guess the first British settlers with a colonizing attitude landed in Virginia?

As opposed to those who ended up in Massachusetts

Virginia is below the Mason-Dixon line

so south but not deep south

@Færd they were all colonizers

Well, those known as the Pilgrim Fathers got along better with the aboriginals at first.

Judging from the map, Florida must be Dope South.

primarily British, but some slightly different other european colonizers, Dutch, Swede, German (no French- they went to Quebec). In the south there was a large proportion of Scotch-Irish which was nominally British but Northern Ireland 'ethnic'.

Also Spanish, among the very early ones.

7:55 PM

@Færd as to the Puritan influence, well known as having a big influence in founding the first colony at Plymouth in Massachusetts...

0

Q: A word for a person who does not do what she knows would benefit her and she is able to do

Alan knows that it is very good for his career to do X, and he knows that he actually is able to do X. Nevertheless Alan does not do X. It might be for a lot of reason why Alan does not do X; maybe he is not motivated enough, or a lazy person, for example. But there in English is, or I think must...

single-word-requests phrase-requests

Guess I should've said "imperialistic attitude".

@Færd I'm only touching the English controlled colonies. The Spanish and French colonies have their own interesting nuances to their histories

History is too much.

too many people

8:01 PM

Too damn long.

On a different note, isn't this song beautiful.

Joan Baez - Diamonds and Rust (With Lyrics)

"We both could have died then and there"

8:54 PM

@Mitch Where do you live?

It's interesting how you describe northerners as less open. I wonder if it extends through Canada too.

Northerners are always less open, everywhere on the northern hemisphaere, aren't they?

Maybe

Not in your country?

@Cerberus Well, there's not a one-to-on correspondence between latitude and openness here.

Sure, it's not so clear.

But generally, stereotypes conform to it.

8:58 PM

People on the Caspian coast could be much more open than some urban types towards the South.

It's about averages, not each individual person.

Right. I get the idea.

And city v. country is another opposition.

I bet it has something to do with temperature.

Could be.

I suspect people from Chile and Argentina are considered stiff by Brazilians or Colombians.

9:01 PM

Oh I know too little aabout South American demographics.

However, both countries happen to have received comparatively many German immigrants.

In Holland, the Franks below the rivers are considered more open than the Frisians and the Saxons above.

I guess you could find contrary examples too.

Probably.

@Cerberus So they inherited their uptightness from Europeans?

It also happens to be the case that people closer to the aequator are poorer.

@Færd Yes, almost all of South America is European.

There are some Indians in the Amazone area, Bolivia, and such.

9:05 PM

Does access to water resources become poorer as you approach the equator?

But they comprise a fairly small part of the continental population.

I see.

@Færd I don't think so.

@Cerberus In the northern hemisphere?

Africa is poorest around the middle, I guess.

South America, I don't know.

And Antarctica must be the richest continent. Where's Jasper when you need him.

@Færd Everywhere, I believe.

9:08 PM

0

Q: A word for an individuals divergence from the tribe/family/cell-group to begin a new “X”

I am looking for a word for a mans journey of leaving home to gain experience and start a family of his own and/or return to the village with wisdom and riches. There certainly is culural words that apply here but also maybe there is a biology term that would aptly fit in this context.

single-word-requests

Indeed, Antarctica is the richest.

Only scientists live there.

The ice is actually diamonds

They have you believe it's H2O

@Cerberus And smug tourists who want tp have it their record.

Instead of going somewhere they could have real fun.

@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ Too bad it metamorphoses when you bring it to other continents.

@Færd I'm not sure they count as inhabitants.

user image

There are of course some exceptions.

Could be due to oil, or, conversely, to war.

I wasn't wrong about Africa.

9:12 PM

@Færd it's smart diamond

So you can only use it there.

To buy penguins

Big countries are counted as single units. There oughta be a difference between north and south China/Australia/etc.

@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ From who?

@Færd Indeed not.

Leopard seals

user image

Interesting.

9:15 PM

Now I get why Iran's like this

Let's migrate north

Wait, it's broken

Saudi Arabia is doing almost fine

People are much better off in the north of Iran too

Maybe

@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ You are in the effing north.

@Færd ha-ha burn

I'm in the capital.

9:17 PM

That's north enough

I'm just gonna live on the roof to get richer

@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ Oil.

user image

Something's in my eye, and I've been trying to get it out for thirty minutes

@Cerberus right, and it's about to break down, I think

@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ How's that work?

@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ There isn't really a breakpoint.

@Færd when I lie down, it's north

9:20 PM

It's just going to pump up less and less oil as time progresses.

@Cerberus nice, a fractal?

And eventually solar and wind energy will drive oil prices down.

@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ That's up to you to plot.

Yeah.

People talk about the exhaustion of resources as if they are crises.

@Færd that's exactly why they're not gonna be

But they really aren't. They're long-term problems that could accelerate crises.

9:21 PM

Crises arise from neglected things

We've heard about how oil will be exhausted very soon for a very long time, and it never materialised.

But that isn't to say that a crisis won't develop at some point.

Though it won't happen in one year.

Yeah.

Yeah.

@Færd jinx

Russia certainly experienced an economic crisis partly owing to low oil prices.

As did Venezuela.

Poor Venezuela.

9:23 PM

Russia managed it well, and had built up reserves.

In Venezuela, it was one of the causes of the current political crisis.

@Færd it makes so much noise compared to countries around it

But, if oil prices had continued to stay so very low for two more years, Russia might have been in big trouble.

It's failing as a country.

Also has a really long waterfall

Alas.

Oil often destabilises.

Without oil, I think large parts of the Near East might have been more stable now.

Owing to causes both internal and external.

9:25 PM

So much death and pain :/

One of the reasons we're so lazy in moving our asses towards other resources is the abundance of fossil fuel.

@Færd that's not news

Or towards trying to earn our keep by actual working.

But we probably could not have developed alternative sources of energy without them.

Probably.

9:28 PM

I don't think there is any doubt that most of the world can switch to inexhaustible energy sources eventually.

We just need some time.

It's already happening.

Well, sure. If we survive long enough we'll have to have figured out a solution.

0

Q: Term for Single-Word Epigraph?

The novel Once an Eagle is divided into five 'books.' Each 'book' is titled by a single word, such as "Wheat" or "Chaparral," which serves to suggest the theme. These words/titles cannot properly be called epigraphs because they are not full quotations; what is the technical term for a one-word '...

single-word-requests

Although it's a bit abstract for me when I talk about future generations.

My responsibilities to them etc.

@Færd Survive?

Why wouldn't we survive?

You mean nuclear wars?

Those would be unfortunate.

Maybe suddenly too many volcanoes start to erupt too much smoke.

9:36 PM

Volcanoes have destroyed more species than you think

@Færd That seems unlikely.

@Færd it only takes one

@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ Why do you think he thinks those would be too few?

Just saying.

There's no guarantee that we'll live as long as we think.

But we'll most likely do.

There's a sense of purpose that keeps us going forward

Not sure what the purpose is, though

9:38 PM

Maybe aliens will come and turn our brains into some energy sources.

We're now constantly complaining that life is too physically easy and people are becoming barrels of fat

And it was our purpose when in physical labor

So whatever the end goal is, we should probably never reach it

Why would you have to consider a global purpose or goal for everyone?

Or maybe there is no end and we're just random clumps of matter.

The concrete way the brain imagines an end goal is not thriving, but an equilibrium

The Earth is too far off the universal equilibrium.

9:42 PM

@Færd everyone? I guess we're not really individuals, and the end goal isn't for individuals, whatever the hell I mean right now

@Cerberus this makes a lot of sense

I don't understand what you mean by goal.

@Færd well, when we're progressing in science and stuff, why do we keep going forward?

We've already proven we can't know everything long ago

We're just figuring out ways to survive (better).

@Færd living easier?

That too.

We're driven by our primal instincts. The're no understanding of a goal on that level, I reckon.

9:47 PM

The workless heavenly life in a utopia?

What a bore.

@Færd we're things we don't understand yet. What if the primal instincts are much more composted than those of other animals?

Complicated, not composted, argh

Complications come with understanding, with language.

I mean, is that greater good thing a thing?

Which is but a game, at the end of the day.

What greater good thing did I mention?

9:50 PM

@Færd None, I'm just asking

1

Q: Word for a Single-Word Request

Is there a single word for when you request a single word for some phrase or thought? Example sentence: By golly, it's time to make a ____ on EL&U! Thinks I've tried: I've searched this site for "single-word request" but I couldn't seem to find anything of interest. SWR is an abbreviatio...

single-word-requests

When you color things with good and bad, you strip them of being a thing on their own and give yourself and your judgement a centrality to the world.

@Feeds haha

@Færd biocentrism is certainly interesting

I should sleep instead of asking weird questions online

That's not what I meant, I guess.

Good idea.

Night

9:54 PM

Night.

Sleep well.

Or at least acceptably.

Hi. Could I make a quick question? My brother is making an application for a job (English homework) and want to know how to make this sentence. I was about to ask this in English Learning but the chat is empty. Could you please help us?

> I almost finish school and I would be very glad if you would have accepted me by the end of school / the time I finish the school. Which option is better?

And he doesn't know if the structure of the statement is correct. So: How can he use future perfect as a main clause in the conditional?.

If that isn't possible, which option is better?:

> I almost finish school and I would be very glad if you accepted me by [...]

> Or

> I almost finish school and I would have be very glad if you had accepted me by [...]

Maybe I would write, I would be very glad if you were to accept me by the time I finish school.

I think if you accepted me by the time... could also work.

@Cerberus My brother is asking if "by the time I finish" didn't obligate the usage of future perfect?

Perhaps in theory, but it doesn't sound right in this sentence.

Probably because it would sound like a past perfect conditional rather than a future perfect condition: would in would have finished would be read as a subjunctive-like thingy, as something counterfactual.

10:04 PM

@Cerberus Thanks! "Because you can't use future perfect in conditionals, isn't it?" - he asked.

Possibly! It'd hard to analyse.

Ok, thanks

Or: you can use them in conditionals, but not if they were to include the word would.

I will hire you by the end of the year, if you will have finished school by that time.

I think that works, though it sounds a bit...stiff.

The future perfect is often replaced by the present perfect in conditions.

Just as the simple future is often replaced by the simple present in conditions.

I will stay inside if it rains tomorrow.

"So, pronoun + would + infinitive + if + pronoun + will + have + past participle is possible?" - he asked

You would probably not want a subjunctive (would) in the main clause combined with an indicative future (will) in the condition.

It's not impossible, though.

But I can't think of any valid example.

10:12 PM

@Cerberus Thanks

That was irrelevant.

No, it was relevant as a 'starter'.

+1

I.e. you can combine different moods and/or different tenses in protasis and apodosis, but it's less common, and it is usually informal or colloquial.

Yes.

Or it might constitute a nuanced conditional meaning.

Such as?

> Well, the worst fear would be if that material melts down or catches fire

In this sentence, the if part may be reporting a natural chemical rule.

10:16 PM

How is that more 'nunaced' than the worst fear would be if that material melted down or caught fire?

It's an informal sentence anyway.

And the first part an engagement with a situation governed by that rule.

How is that more 'nuanced' than the worst fear would be if that material melted down or caught fire?

I'm hypothesizing.

OK.

@Cerberus But in this case it might be construed that the if part is not a general rule.

It's just a singular possible situation.

10:18 PM

I'm not sure I read that into it.

You oughta be really sleepy to be able to do that.

I can vaguely sense the direction you're thinking in.

But my dowsing rod isn't tingling hard enough.

I feel aroused by your remark.

Oh, how unfortunate.

Meditate.

This should probably be converted into a comment: english.stackexchange.com/a/442978

(is referring to this answer: english.stackexchange.com/a/442797)

10:25 PM

@quartata I've flagged it for you.

Or wasn't that what you wanted.

Oh I already flagged it NAA, I just saw blue in here and mistakenly assumed it was ELU blue

and not Latin Language blue, as it happens :p

Could I make a question? Is fine use contractions (e.g: I'm, I haven't, etc) in formal letters?

Haha, I apologize.

kind of sucks you can't recommend comment conversion from review

@EnderLook Generally, yes, but you'll probably want to use fewer than in informal letters.

@quartata Yeah I know. But someone will pick it up.

10:28 PM

@Cerberus Ok, thanks

@EnderLook Maybe not if it is extremely formal.

When in doubt, don't contract.

Because it is not ever truly necessary to do so.

@Cerberus Does an application for a job is extremely formal?

Probably not.

Thanks

@EnderLook Unrelated question: would you say people in northern Argentina were more open and romantic than those in the south?

10:34 PM

@Cerberus Yes. I've asked to my mum and she said that people on the south are more close because they are British descendence.

@EnderLook Ah, OK. Thanks.

We were discussing how all over the world, people closer to the aequator are seen as more open and romantic.

Also more people of German descent in the south?

Cold always make people more closed and reserved

@Cerberus I'm sorry, I don't know. I know that in history, some ships came from europe to the south and almost the 90% die of starvation, maybe the 10% were germans

Is there any difference between haven't and don't have?

@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ When contemplating existence, the first step is to get rid of our 'local' values of good and bad etc, or redefine them.

And also realize that existence is in a different ballpark than any property we may ascribe to it. Anything that exists is out there not due to any property it has other than existence itself. Be it a scientific attribute or a moral value or whatever.

We'd have to redefine greatness as well.

Then I believe yes, the greater good thing is a thing.

@EnderLook Well, they're just different.

Depends on context.

@Cerberus For example: is the same I don't have experience and I haven't experience? I am talking about have of possesion

Does one of both is more formal than the other?

10:47 PM

When have means "possess, own", then you can often replace one with the other. When it is an auxiliary verb, then you can't use don't with it.

The latter is wrong.

But you can say I haven't any experience.

It's complicated.

Oh, thanks anyway!

@Cerberus But, can I said I don't have any experience?

Yes.

That is interesting

In that sentence, the two forms are interchangeable.

But in any case, you would be more likely to say, I have no experience.

11:04 PM

@Cerberus Ok

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