English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

Robusto

12:28 AM

@Cerberus I already know the 12x12 tables

We were taught those in school.

Robusto

12:40 AM

Really, it's only three extra operations to remember.

11x11, 11x12, 12x12

The rest are easy.

But @Cerb whines about math with all three heads, I guess.

tchrist

Reading numbers at speed in the surrounding language is something that comes more slowly to learners than one might perhaps imagine.

Robusto

What do you mean?

Cerberus

@Robusto Okay, then what's 7x8?

Quick!

3...

2...

1...

Nick Alexeev

Folks, I'm sorry to be asking this, but... Is the word "niggardly" considered racial slur?

Cerberus

Hi!

No, it is not, because it isn't about niggers.

tchrist

12:51 AM

@NickAlexeev Absonotly.

Cerberus

Only the superstitious would forbid words just because they sound somewhat like taboo words.

tchrist

> niggard /ˈnɪgɚd/, sb. and a.
Forms: ɑ. 4–5 negarde, 5–6 negard, 9 dial. neeger, neager, niegre, etc. β. 4–5 nygard, (4 -art), 4–6 -arde, (8) nigard, (6 -arde), 7 nigatt. ɣ. 4 nyggard, 5–6 -arde, 6– niggard, (6 -arde), 9 dial. niggar(t, -er, etc.

Etymology: Of obscure etym.; an earlier synonym is nigon, and the termination in both cases would normally indicate a French origin. The rareness of the sb. nig makes it doubtful whether it is the base of both formations.

A. sb. 1. A mean, stingy, or parsimonious person; a miser; one who grudgingly parts with or expends anything.

We know not its precise provenance.

However.

@Cerberus People can and do get in trouble for it. People have been fired for it.

Controversies about the word "niggardly"

In the United States, there have been several controversies concerning the word "niggardly", an adjective meaning "stingy" or "miserly", because of its phonetic similarity to the racial slur "nigger". Etymologically the two words are unrelated. == Word origins == "Niggardly" (noun: "niggard") is an adjective meaning "stingy" or "miserly". It can be traced back at least to the Middle English word nigon, which has the same meaning, and is perhaps related to the Old Norse verb nigla, which means "to fuss about small matters". "Nigger", a racist insult in English, derives from the Spanish/Portuguese...

Cerberus

@tchrist Don't make me say anything nasty about groups of people.

Nick Alexeev

@tchrist Thanks. (I should have done this research myself, though.)

Cerberus

Resist superstition, literal-mindedness, and general stupidity!

tchrist

12:55 AM

Next on the hit list: sniggering.

TEACHER! Peter’s sniggering again!

Cerberus

In the end, the list will be as long as the OED.

If you use nigger in a way that people know you're not racist, it's fine.

tchrist

Good luck with that.

Oxinabox

I'm blanking on a word. I am writing a research proposal for my PhD. I need to say what each of my supervisors bring to the table. I want to say that one of them beings knowledge of the conventions of the field, what journals and conferences to target etc. Its not domain knowledge (as that would be the fact that she knows the methods and algorithms for the area).
subfield social knowledge doesn't sound right either...

tchrist

Muddy.

2

A: What does the verb "nig" mean?

Whether "Nig" is a back-formation from the well-known racist term for American Black people, or branches off from that other pejorative, “niggardly,” what’s plain is that the mere utterance of the word so traumatizes many of us that—-unlike any other word I know—-even the linguists of EL&U ...

Trauma.

Cerberus

Hi!

Are you sure that can be caught in a single word?

Robusto

1:03 AM

@Cerberus 56.

Cerberus

What is the main similarity between the things that this supervisor brings to the table?

Robusto

I just returned.

Cerberus

@Robusto Wrong.

It's 48 in a twelve-based system.

Robusto

No it isn't.

Cerberus

40(base 12) = 12(base 10) * 4

Oxinabox

1:04 AM

The commoness is they are things that are not related to knowing things, but rather to being able to publish them.

Cerberus

So 40(base 12) = 48(base 10).

@Oxinabox Publishing experience?

Publishing knowledge?

Robusto

Oh, I see what you're talking about. I thought you just wanted the regular decimal multiplication.

Cerberus

Journal experience.

@Robusto Alas, no!

Oxinabox

publish though has too much connotation of journal, rather than conferences.

Robusto

But we never learned Base 12 multiplication, we just learned the decimal tables to 12.

I thought you knew that's what I was talking about.

Cerberus

1:06 AM

When you change the base to 12, you have to relearn a lot of stuff, multiplications and additions.

Oxinabox

perhaps knowledge of the field.

Knowledge of the field and its conventions.

Robusto

@Cerberus I understand that. But what you said earlier seemed to indicate you were talking about something else. Never mind.

Cerberus

What's the similarity between publishing in a journal and speaking at a conference?

@Robusto Nah, I was just trying to make a point to Tom.

That Americans use base 10 too.

Oxinabox

They are both means of communicating your research.
Further in CS, many things that would be journal articles in other fields are published only as conference papers.

Cerberus

And that changing base is annoying.

Robusto

1:07 AM

-1

Q: Any relation in the words etch and stretch?

I am wondering if there is a relation between the words stretch and etch. I initially though "str" could be a prefix for etch. It appeared to make sense when I thought of words "str-aight", "str-ict", "str-ike". Then I not could make anything out of these other words without the prefixes. Why do ...

What a shit question.

Cerberus

@Oxinabox So experience in communicating research?

Oxinabox

but it is particular expertise in just this area.

Cerberus

Isn't the field obvious from context?

Oxinabox

because all my supervisors are experiences in communicating research. But only one is experiences in the conventions of this subfield.

Cerberus

Experience in communicating CS research.

Or whatever the subfield is.

Sometimes, you just need a full sentence to express what you mean, nothing wrong with that.

Oxinabox

1:10 AM

I think I will have to settle for:
"Provide expertise in natural language processing, and the conventions of publication in the field."

Cerberus

That sounds fine.

Why are you unhappy with it?

If you really need more nuance or precision, make the description longer.

Oxinabox

I find writing about how great people I know (or myself) are, to be really awkward. I guess an off-placed humbleness. So I am very critical of what I write.

Thanks.

Cerberus

@Oxinabox A very good character trait.

Praise of oneself is the worst.

Praise of people present also suck.

Praise of people one does not know personally is somewhat less bleh.

Sometimes it must be done, but we don't have to like it.

Oxinabox

Praise of someone's work on the other hand, is great.

Perhaps because anyone can see it, and evaluate the truth of your praise.

Cerberus

Yeah that's somewhat better.

> the dried and fully fermented fatty seed of Theobroma cacao

That's the Latin, official name.

> The word Cocoa derives [3] from the Spanish word cacao, derived from the Nahuatl word cacahuatl.[4]

tchrist

1:22 AM

Theobromine.

Oops, wrong room.

That’s peanuts.

Ah.

> cacahuete.
(Del náhuatl cacáhuatl).
1. m. Planta papilionácea anual procedente de América, con tallo rastrero y velloso, hojas alternas lobuladas y flores amarillas. El fruto tiene cáscara coriácea y, según la variedad, dos a cuatro semillas blancas y oleaginosas, comestibles después de tostadas. Se cultiva también para la obtención del aceite.
2. m. Fruto de esta planta.

Spanish word for peanuts comes from Nahuatl.

tchrist

1:52 AM

-5

A: The pronunciation of buoy

Because you Americans are hardly literate. Allow the people who invented the language to know how it should be pronounced as boy.

Robusto

@tchrist: Are there no possessive forms for usted/ustedes?

tchrist

su, suyo

Depends on prefix/postfix or nominalized.

Robusto

Oh.

tchrist

And yes, his/hers/its/theirs are all the same word as that one.

Robusto

I actually think I did know that and forgot it already.

Damn.

I painted myself into a corner of my memory and couldn't find my way out.

tchrist

2:03 AM

There are times one uses de usted(es) for disambiguation.

¿De quién es esta chaqueta, de usted o de ella?

Creo que es suya doesn’t say which of those two.

tchrist

2:30 AM

@Cerberus My goodness, a myriologue is hardly what I was expecting it to be!

Cerberus

@tchrist I suspect it to be related to this verb: archimedes.fas.harvard.edu/cgi-bin/…

But others say it is related to Moira.

A weeping speech.

tchrist

Yes, moira not myrio.

Cerberus

2:49 AM

And yet murô would seem more likely.

tchrist

Which means?

SmokeDetector

6:30 AM

[ SmokeDetector ] Bad keyword in title: Good Quality Movers Packers in - Choosing Excellent One by susanrautela on english.stackexchange.com

Robusto

10:49 AM

room topic changed to English Language & Usage: The Incomprehensible Room 2.0 [elu-the-sequel]

RegDwigнt

11:04 AM

I notice room description is attempted to be remade.

Sorry, I mean, the room description is attempted to remake.

Robusto

11:16 AM

@RegDwigнt The new face of communism?

Then I pity you. — Robusto 10 secs ago

RegDwigнt

Well. Not really new if you are familiar with Russian fairy-tales.

Slavic dragon

In Slavic mythology, the word “zmey” (Bulgarian and Russian: змей, Macedonian: змеj) and its cognates zmiy (Polish: żmij, Ukrainian: змій) and zmaj (Serbian: змај, Croatian, Slovene: zmaj), are used to describe a dragon. These words are masculine forms of the Slavic word for "snake", which are normally feminine (like Russian zmeya). In Romania, there is a similar figure, derived from the Slavic dragon and named zmeu. In Polish and Belarusian folklore, as well as in the other Slavic folklore, a dragon is also called smok (смок, цмок, smok). In South Slavic folklore, the female variation is also...

Robusto

@RegDwigнt Looks like Shrek III.

RegDwigнt

> A typical 3-headed obese Zmey Gorynych.

That's racist!

Robusto

Not to mention body-dysmorphic!

RegDwigнt

> In Russia and Ukraine, a particular dragon-like creature, Zmey Gorynych (Russian: “змей Горыныч” or Ukrainian: “змій Горинич”), has three heads, is green, walks on two back paws, has small front paws, and spits fire.

tchrist

11:19 AM

The Dragon must have three heads.

RegDwigнt

Hm. I wonder what they call such creatures in Greek, @Cerberus.

Robusto

It just occurs to me that @Cerb can lick himself in two places while continuing to carry on a conversation with you.

RegDwigнt

Or he can lick himself in three places and not talk at all. Exhibit A: right now.

Robusto

I don't think he has three places worth licking, but I could be wrong.

RegDwigнt

Well, I'd not lick any dog in any one place, but the dogs themselves have other opinions.

Robusto

11:23 AM

Multicultural calendar note: Thursday is a holiday on account of Ganesh Chathurthi.

RegDwigнt

Gesundheit.

Or did you misspell Ganesh Chtulhu?

Robusto

That's Knish Cthulhu

tchrist

Robusto

We need to step it up in here. We're at rev 2.0 and still having the same old conversations.

skill patrol

What is that @tchrist?

RegDwigнt

11:26 AM

In Soviet Russia, they have dedicated Knish stores.

Robusto

@tchrist You misspole Jackson Pollock.

RegDwigнt

Knish supermarkets.

Robusto

@RegDwigнt That's not a store, it's a magazine stand that sells potato publications.

tchrist

@skillpatrol It’s a Dragaeran dragon.

RegDwigнt

Knish labyrinths, even.

skill patrol

11:27 AM

0

Q: In boxing is Mayweather's 49-0 record comparable to Marciano's?

This article, albeit a bit bias, says no. While this article makes some valid comparisons. I realize this is too much of an opinion based question to ask on main so I will ask it here. If he goes for one more win, that will be the undisputed biggest moment in boxing. Nobody can argue with 50-...

discussion

RegDwigнt

@Robusto you're a potato publication.

Robusto

@RegDwigнt That's a lot of bull.

Cerberus

@RegDwigнt I don't know that we have a special name for that.

RegDwigнt

You are confusing the Knish with the Irish.

Cerberus

Just drakôn or something?

Robusto

11:28 AM

Stop dragon the conversation down to 1.0 levels!

Cerberus

@Robusto And that's all that matters.

RegDwigнt

It should be easy to tell them apart. The ones are sort of kn-ish, the others are a bit more ir-ish.

@Cerberus duh. Joke. Greek word for three-headed green creature is "Cerberus", @Cerberus. Duh. Joke.

Apparently the one head that does the thinking is still asleep.

Cerberus

All body parts are still asleep.

RegDwigнt

I'll talk to the head, cause the head ain't listening.

Cerberus

But I walk on all fours, and I'm not green.

Robusto

11:30 AM

It's afternoon in your lowlands.

RegDwigнt

After being the Dutch word for "asshole".

Robusto

@Cerberus That's an exaggeration, surely. You don't walk on all fours. Some fours must be left out.

RegDwigнt

4

That's one four Cerberus does not walk on.

I checked.

Cerberus

I do not brag.

Robusto

All four one and one four all. (British variation)

RegDwigнt

11:31 AM

Therefour.

Cerberus

My word is truth.

RegDwigнt

Your Word is filth.

Excel at it as you might.

Robusto

Where the hell is @MattE.Эллен? People are ragging on BrE and he isn't here to be offended. No fair!

RegDwigнt

Not enough. You must rag on the Queen, too.

The Queen sucks!!!!

Robusto

The season of the Harvest Bear is right around the corner. Already all Bavaria is drinking in preparation for the event.

RegDwigнt

11:33 AM

Geography quiz of the day:

tchrist

Falco, is that you?

Robusto

Looks Russian.

RegDwigнt

What, nobody's first thought is Germania?

Robusto

Adleria?

RegDwigнt

Welthauptstadt Germania

Welthauptstadt Germania (pronounced [vɛltˈhaʊ̯ptˌʃtat ɡɛʁˈmaːni̯a], "World Capital Germania") refers to the projected renewal of the German capital Berlin during the Nazi period, part of Adolf Hitler's vision for the future of Germany after the planned victory in World War II. Albert Speer, the "first architect of the Third Reich", produced many of the plans for the rebuilt city in his capacity as overseer of the project, only a small portion of which was realized between the years 1937–1943 when construction took place. Some projects, such as the creation of a great East-West city axis, which...

But anyway. No, of course. Not Germania, not Russia, not Falco.

Robusto

11:34 AM

Russia, Nazi Germany . . . what's the diff?

RegDwigнt

diff Germania Russia
diff: Germania: No such file or directory
diff: Russia: No such file or directory

Hm. You are right. No difference at all!

tchrist

Aquila (Roman)

An aquila, or eagle, was a prominent symbol used in ancient Rome, especially as the standard of a Roman legion. A legionary known as an aquilifer, or eagle-bearer, carried this standard. Each legion carried one eagle. The eagle was extremely important to the Roman military, beyond merely being a symbol of a legion. A lost standard was considered an extremely grave occurrence, and the Roman military often went to great lengths to both protect a standard and to recover it if lost; for example, see the aftermath of the Battle of the Teutoburg Forest, where the Romans spent decades attempting to recover...

Robusto

Is Peter Gabriel's "Red Rain" actually a song about communism? Discuss.

RegDwigнt

Is Purple Rain about gay communism?

Robusto

@tchrist Underground eagles that are often wet are called aquifers.

tchrist

11:36 AM

There’s called aquilae because when you need a quill, you know where to find one.

RegDwigнt

Anyway. Still waiting for Cerberus'aes tip to close off the quiz as unsolvable.

Robusto

Why can't we have full-duplex cell phones? If we did, I think people wouldn't think they had to SHOUT ACROSS THE FUCKING ROOM WHEN USING ONE.

RegDwigнt

Why can't we have no phones?

tchrist

Isn’t that something? This has been studied.

RegDwigнt

We can have no education, after all. So why not no phones?

Robusto

11:39 AM

@cornbreadninja麵包忍者: ^^^^ You have knowledge of EE, perhaps you can answer that.

Sidetone

Sidetone is audible feedback to someone who is speaking. The term is most used in the telecommunication field. == Telephony == In telephony, sidetone is the effect of sound picked up by the telephone's transmitter (mouthpiece) and instantly introduced at a low electronic signal level into the receiver (earpiece) of the same handset, a form of feedback. Sidetone in 19th century telephones varied until the carbon transmitter was used, which produced a distinct sidetone that discouraged speaking loudly enough, and occasionally so loud as to cause the instrument to produce uncontrolled oscillations...

It has another name.

RegDwigнt

How is that different from Pantone?

When can I have the different to use among these? Like example, sentence: "I have cheese", what word use?

Robusto

> Without sidetone, talking on a mobile phone feels exactly like what it is in reality: holding a piece of plastic to your ear and speaking out loud. There’s no feeling of connection, no audio “interface” between you and the device; your voice just propagates outward as it would in any other situation, lost to the ether.

RegDwigнt

Well. Technically your voice always propagates inward yourself.

Which is why it sounds completely different to others.

tchrist

I hate that.

skill patrol

Does it?

tchrist

11:46 AM

It does.

Robusto

0

Q: In search of a noun

I have learnt that a person who lodges a complaint is referred to as the complainant. How do I then refer to a person who sends a compliment?

nouns

RegDwigнt

Ah, them young people. Never used a cassette recorder.

skill patrol

How so?

Robusto

Laudator, plauditor, panegyrist . . . nobody has talked like this since the 18th century.

RegDwigнt

Well, use a Skype recorder, then, duh.

tchrist

11:46 AM

Your voice sounds tinny and whiny.

skill patrol

Says who?

RegDwigнt

@skillpatrol Just record yourself saying something. Then play it back to yourself.

Jesus.

Come on.

tchrist

But your brain rejects that interpretation, and substitutes it with a basso profundo so you don’t kill yourself.

RegDwigнt

Next up we'll be discussing if there's really weather outside.

skill patrol

nvm

tchrist

11:47 AM

It’s true.

Nobody else picks up the low reverb that you yourself do.

skill patrol

Not for me

Robusto

Sidetone is to promenade as avoirdupois is to frijole.

That puts things in perspective.

RegDwigнt

@Robusto Hey, congratulations on using three English words in the same sentence at once!

tchrist

@skillpatrol Good vibrations.

> This combination of vibrations coming to the inner ear by two different paths gives your voice (as you normally hear it) a unique character that other, “air only” sounds don’t have. In particular, your bones enhance deeper, lower-frequency vibrations and give your voice a fuller, bassier quality that’s lacking when you hear it on a recording.

Robusto

@RegDwigнt Just trying to set an example for you.

tchrist

11:50 AM

@RegDwigнt Notice how unsustainable that was.

RegDwigнt

@Robusto hey I only just used OVER THREE English words in the same sentence at once.

8 mins ago, by RegDwigнt

When can I have the different to use among these? Like example, sentence: "I have cheese", what word use?

See?

Robusto

You and your cheesy comments.

RegDwigнt

Yes. What about me and them?

Robusto

They are subject and object at the same time.

You subject me to them, and I object to that.

It all works out.

RegDwigнt

Jackie Treehorn treats subjects like women.

Robusto

11:52 AM

Jackie Treehorn draws a lotta water in this town, Lebowski. You don't draw shit.

RegDwigнt

And why would he if anyone can google-image-search for drawings of shit any time.

Robusto

I knew you would say that.

RegDwigнt

Though seeing how they don't even have Asian nurses on bikes, I do have to question their ability to find shit.

Robusto

Yeah, what's up with that?

RegDwigнt

You breaked the Internet.

Robusto

11:54 AM

The Internet as we know it could collapse at any minute.

RegDwigнt

Gopher it.

Robusto

Rather than pleading for money every few months, Wikipedia should organize a campaign to get more pictures of hot Asian nurses riding bikes up on the Internet.

RegDwigнt

I'd rummage the sofa for change for that.

Robusto

Which reminds me of another great BrE word: brummagem.

You don't need it often, but when you do it's the only word that will suffice.

RegDwigнt

Yes, that's the sound the Old English children made when driving around their Matchbox cars.

Robusto

11:57 AM

I'm also rather partial to using the BrE "rubbish" instead of "bullshit" these days when being disparaging about something. It actually sounds more contemptuous.

-1

Q: "were it not for ..."

Does "irony" refer to the fact that this song reminds many British people of the Queen’s coronation, establishment order, public ritual and so on? 2.Does here "were it not for ..." structure imply that "if the piece were not accompanied by such magnificent music, it would become wryly amusing ...

meaning-in-context

Were it not for questions like this, apparently there would be no EL&U.

If anyone here can figure out what he's asking, please enlighten me.

Cerberus

@Robusto But using abbreviations where you don't need to is also rubbish...

Rigor

@tchrist interesting, thanks for sharing.

RegDwigнt

I call RB.

Robusto

@Cerberus Attaboy.

Anyway, which abbreviations do you object to? Not BrE, surely.

Cerberus

Yes, of course that.

Robusto

12:05 PM

That is sth we use here as a convention.

RegDwigнt

I object to all rabbi-ish abbreviations because they are not kosher.

Cerberus

We do not!

RegDwigнt

Words must be cooked separately from other words.

Cerberus

The golden rule is that you shouldn't use abbreviations except when you really have to.

RegDwigнt

lolwut

See, there's Matt. I told you he'd come if we told him his queen sucked.

Matt E. Эллен

12:06 PM

@Robusto screw you guys. you're all banned.

Robusto

@Cerberus I really, really had to. My keyboard was running out of characters.

RegDwigнt

Buy a Russian keyboard. It has many more characters.

Matt E. Эллен

@RegDwigнt you're banned twice!

Robusto

@MattE.Эллен Rubbish!

Matt E. Эллен

:D

Cerberus

12:07 PM

Bah!

RegDwigнt

@MattE.Эллен that's 9000 times less than your rabbi-ish queen should be banned.

Cerberus

Hi Matt!

I have to go, though.

Robusto

9 mins ago, by Robusto

I'm also rather partial to using the BrE "rubbish" instead of "bullshit" these days when being disparaging about something. It actually sounds more contemptuous.

Agree?

Cerberus

For Robusto: I have to g.

Rigor

later pal

Robusto

12:07 PM

@Cerberus For @Cer: g ahd.

RegDwigнt

srsly g2g brb cu

FTFY

Cerberus

NOU

RegDwigнt

ytumamatambien

Cerberus

Using "BrE" is different from using "u" only in degree.

RegDwigнt

I will use your BrE several times any given day and I won't even say thanks.

Cerberus

12:09 PM

Can't hear you.

Robusto

@Cerberus It is infinitely more erudite. I use it as a badge denoting linguistic in-group knowledge.

Cerberus

Bai!

Robusto

I didn't just use it to have a shorter word.

Cerberus

An adjective that starts with a p.

disappears

Robusto

So, you see, it was actually more hoity-toity. You ought to get behind this, @Cerb. It's right up your alley.

RegDwigнt

12:09 PM

Penile?

Robusto

He disappears slowly.

RegDwigнt

Death on the Penile?

Rigor

fades

Robusto

The Penile is almost the Nile.

RegDwigнt

Fades into Hades.

Rigor

12:10 PM

^

Robusto

Notice that Hades is an anagram of heads, and that @Cerb has multiples of those?

Coincidence?

RegDwigнt

I am still waiting for Rob to stop beating his wife.

Robusto

You're going to wait a long time.

RegDwigнt

I have a long time.

Rigor

stop before you start?

Robusto

12:11 PM

@RegDwigнt You don't know that. Not to a certainty.

RegDwigнt

I know it to some tee, whether or not it's a certain tee is what you don't know.

Robusto

No Country for Old Men - Hotel Scene

►

RegDwigнt

Get a room.

Matt E. Эллен

@Robusto I think so, yes. Maybe it has become more contemptuous because it has fallen out of use

Rigor

the man speaks in many voices :P

RegDwigнt

12:13 PM

Ein Mann, ein Wort. Eine Frau, ein Wörterbuch.

True^, in most cases

alas

?

@RegDwigнt I searched for nurse on bike and Asian nurses on bikes came up. go figure.

RegDwigнt

That's racist!

Robusto

12:17 PM

@RegDwigнt Even as the women on the other side of this office are chatting interminably about fuck all, yet never once looking into a dictionary.

Matt E. Эллен

@RegDwigнt you're an anglophobe

Robusto

@MattE.Эллен We don't have access to the Dark Web.

Oh, and Dude, "Dark Web" is not the preferred nomenclature. Chinese-Amer—

RegDwigнt

Did you know that the Dark Web has the same initials as Doctor Who?

I not think this a coincidence, no sire I do not.

@MattE.Эллен stuff and nonsense, I anglophile several times a day.

11 mins ago, by RegDwigнt

I will use your BrE several times any given day and I won't even say thanks.

Matt E. Эллен

@RegDwigнt It's the thanks that show you care.

Rigor

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Q: Adjective to describe a windshield that has its wiper blades turned on?

Example: Raindrops fall on the [...] windshield. As soon they touch the glass, they are gone. I could only think of moving windshield. But I think it's not very suitable. Sounds as if the windshield is moving, not the wiper blades.