English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room - 2012-04-27 (page 2 of 4)

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2:00 PM

slate.com/articles/health_and_science/medical_examiner/2012/04/…

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

I should add that people actually offered tips on improving your question, before it got closed. You brushed them off rather harshly. So it got closed. The thing is, it can still be improved and then reopened; but you can't be bothered. You could also start a thread on meta; but you can't be bothered. Instead you highjack an unrelated question with vile ad hominem attacks. This is not how we do business here. — RegDwight ΒВBẞ8 21 secs ago

I chose a more conciliatory tone.

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

I saw that.

Matt Эллен

> The professors speculate that that early humans often came into contact with other tribes that harbored dangerous germs. So humans evolved to have a feeling of disgust at The Other, which helped keep interactions to a minimum.

> When I told one of my conservative friends this theory, he said it sounded absurd. But, he added, at least it gave him license to call liberals dirty.

2

excellent :D

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

2:16 PM

Funny though how online, disgust at The Other doesn't help keep interactions to a minimum.

@MattЭллен lol

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

As we can see, if people join a new community and don't like it, they won't leave; much rather, they will stick around to tell everybody how much they suck.

I wonder what mechanisms are at work here.

the internet doesn't involve physical contact

if it did, it would be a much better place

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

I mean, that guy actually suggests, "find a better website and pose your question there". That is extremely reasonable advice. But somehow he doesn't follow it himself.

and i can't even figure out what he's bothered about. his Q got closed, but he got 3 good answers in the meantime

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

2:18 PM

And none of those even called him out on his perception bias.

And if he actually knew anything about the site, he'd realize how off-topic his question was.

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

I mean, we are not supposed to answer every question where someone posts two random typos and draws an imaginary connection between them, are we?

If you check your email correspondence, you will be able to easily find two instances of people leaving out the letter T, say. Does that mean that the letter T is dying out?

@RegDwightΒВBẞ8 i hope so. the letter T is such an asshole.

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

What's worse, though, is that for all we know, in some dialect the past participles are actually dying out right now, and we are not aware of that, and that question could be the first one to point out the phenomenon, but he just won't so much as mention which dialect we are talking about.

Instead we get a wishy-washy "are past participles dying out" which is easily answered by looking at any random page on the Internet.

Participles are dying and you people are just sitting around talking about other shit. You disgust me.

2:25 PM

Hey, that reminds me. I have been thinking about the "Why you talk like that?" construction. How would I find out what dialect it is associated with and its usage history?

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

@Robusto hey now. I did follow your call to action. I now pay 5 rubles a month so a participle in Africa can get medicine and toys.

@KitFox It's a black dialectical feature, I believe.

@RegDwightΒВBẞ8 Not enough. You should pay moar.

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

Fine. I'll throw in ten kopeks.

That shall be a one-time gesture, though.

I have to pay for prepositions.

That won't even buy a participle a decent auxiliary verb.

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

I can't be subsidizing the entirety of the English language.

2:28 PM

I'll throw in 100 kwatlus.

@RegDwightΒВBẞ8 And yet, here you are, using the entirety of the English language virtually rent-free. If there's a clearer case of parasitism, I haven't seen it.

i'll give 500 (old) Romanian lei.

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

I am sure YouTube has videos of clearer cases of parasitism.

I have a couple OVER-9000-tögrög banknotes under my pillow, but that's my pension fund.

I have 22 marks around here somewhere.

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

Nah, that's actual money. Keep it to yourself.

2:32 PM

Well, Finland won't take it anymore.

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

Oh, Finnish marks? Feed them to the moose.

the Finns also use marks?

@JSBᾶngs Used to.

Hey, medieval-fortress fans, is there an actual, cool word for the arrow slits in the walls of a castle? (Not talking about crenelations on top of the walls — or am I?)

I think they switched to the Euro about eleven years ago.

2:34 PM

i would have assumed their currency was called a kyppäsänö or something suitably Finny

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

@Robusto Embrasure?

@Robusto Balistraria?

@RegDwightΒВBẞ8 Ding!

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

In military architecture, an embrasure is the opening in a crenellation or battlement between the two raised solid portions or merlons, sometimes called a crenel or crenelle. In domestic architecture this refers to the outward splay of a window or arrow slit on the inside. A loophole, arrow loop or arrow slit passes through a solid wall and was originally for use by archers. The purpose of embrasures is to allow weapons to be fired out from the fortification while the firer remains under cover. The splay of the wall on the inside provides room for the soldier and his equipment, and a...

Thank you. That's the word I was trying to think of, but due to my Google-atrophied brain, couldn't.

2:35 PM

Loophole.

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

@KitFox no u!

Meeting. AFK.

@RegDwightΒВBẞ8 Come on. It's funny.

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

@KitFox so is my response!

stomps foot

snorts

2:37 PM

Google zerg rush.

Fun!

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

I don't even know who zergs are. I guess this is the next step in Web search: self explanatory results. You google for "food" and it makes you a sandwich.

@RegDwightΒВBẞ8 so what does it do when you search for "porn"?

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

0

Q: "To this effect"

What does "to this effect" in the following sentence mean? (This sentence is in a reply of an application). However, if you are not successful, we will inform you to this effect. Does this mean, if I failed I will still get informed(by a mail or phone-call) or if I failed, I will have no id...

meaning-in-context

I'm not sure how it could mean the latter.

Trying to figure out OP's reasoning.

Races of StarCraft

Blizzard Entertainment's bestselling real-time strategy game series StarCraft revolves around interstellar affairs in a distant sector of the galaxy, with three species and multiple factions all vying for supremacy in the sector. The playable species of StarCraft include the Terrans, humans exiled from Earth who excel at adapting to any situation; the Zerg, a race of insectoids obsessed with assimilating other races in pursuit of genetic perfection; and the Protoss, a humanoid species with advanced technology and psionic abilities, attempting to preserve their civilization and strict phi...

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

2:45 PM

@JSBᾶngs duh. To get actual sex you would have to search for "sex". Googling for "porn" would still get you porn.

@Robusto I know, that was my point. I figured out from the animation what a zerg rush must be.

Zerg is most often used as a verb these days.

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

user image

@RegDwightΒВBẞ8 Stop calling me an old man.

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

Fine, I'll call you River.

@RegDwightΒВBẞ8 Did you see his reply?

Poor chap.

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

2:57 PM

Yeah.

Life will make you question grammar.

-1

A: What does "I can't agree with you more" mean?

Sentences 1 are 2 similar, but they are different from sentence 3: "I can't agree with you more" To say that "I can't agree with you more" means you fully and absolutely agree with someone. You can't possibly agree with them more than you already are with this person. 100% agreement with everyt...

Is this really wrong?

It doesn't seem incorrect to me.

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

I was wondering about that.

That's how I parsed the second sentence as well.

As equivalent to the first.

The answerer is asking whether he should delete it.

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

Saw that.

But I wonder if he posted the wrong answer because there isn't an accepted answer for this question.

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

3:01 PM

Sentences 1 and 2 are not similar. Moreover, it is better to say "different from", rather than "different than". There are native English speakers who use forms like different from and they speak valid dialects. On this site, we should take the prescriptive view and promote the socio-economically preferred dialect of English, for the sake of those who are studying English as a second language and don't wish to learn lower-class junk. — Kaz 9 hours ago

Ugh. What's that.

I was just going to post that.

WTF?

No wonder this kid thinks he should delete his answer.

I want to flag that.

I will flag that.

Wow. That is just wrong.

Kaz's answer is just... wrong.

And he's a jerk about it too.

@RegDwightΒВBẞ8 So his rationale seems to be that this is an ESL site.

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

@Robusto good point. Also, a sad point.

Gah. Really? Really people think "any more" and "anymore" are equivalent?

Yes, and the irony is that unless we maintain our own prescriptivist assertions about this site, we would have to bow to "popular usage"!

3:08 PM

I mean, at best I would say it makes sentence 2 ambiguous.

@KitFox um, yeah. what is the difference between them supposed to be?

@JSBᾶngs I can't agree with you any more = I can't agree with you anymore?

Are those the same to you? Because they are vastly different to me.

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

Anymore is an adverb of time. Any more is an adverb of quantity.

@KitFox the thing is, i would never say the former

Next they'll be saying "I can't agree with you any less = I can't agree with you any fewer."

@JSBᾶngs So they are different to you?

Or that "I am farthering the point = I am furthering the point."

3:11 PM

@KitFox i see the distinction that you're trying to make, but in this instance, at least, it's a moot point because i would never use the quantitative any more

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

Well yeah, the question is rather theoretical, but then so should be the answers.

4 mins ago, by KitFox

I mean, at best I would say it makes sentence 2 ambiguous.

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

Just because you would never say "red car", doesn't mean you shouldn't explain what it actually means if someone else chooses to use it.

Withholding the information, "I would never say that", and masquerading it as "it means blue car" is confusing at best.

FINE

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

Haha.

3:14 PM

Hi @JSB!

blows kisses

@KitFox They're different to me, but I didn't know in what way. I just had to make some mental examples before I knew Reg's time/quantity distinction matched the rule in my head.

Let's all just admit that I'm right. Then I can feel good about myself and you can just carry on admiring me.

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

Well for that you'd have to post an answer first.

Or JSB.

Or both of you, really.

N-n-n-no. I don't do that kind of thing. I'm just an amateur.

@RegDwightΒВBẞ8 And any less is an adverb of quality. QED.

3:17 PM

It takes all the fun out of being judgmental if people actually argue with me.

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

@Robusto but what is Annie Hall an adverb of?

Off to get taco salad. brb

@RegDwightΒВBẞ8 Woody Allen.

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

Huhuh, you said woody, huhuh.

Damn it. I forgot I brought my lunch today.

sulks

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

3:18 PM

It's worse than taco salad?

Worse than fish tacos?

@Robusto fish tacos are delicious

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

As opposed to Tisch Fuckos.

@JSBᾶngs Depends on the brand.

@KitFox Whatisit whatisit? I'll eat it! I'm hungry already!

3:20 PM

@Robusto the only brand of fish tacos is fresh off the taco truck. and those are delicious.

Mmm, taco trucks.

@JSBᾶngs They are also sold by street vendors.

@Robusto street vendor ≈ taco truck

Fish tacos make me barf.

I've got yogurt and an apple.

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

A yogurt a day keeps the taco away.

3:22 PM

Oh, shit. I forgot to give the boys the apple halves I promised them this morning. I fucking suck at being a mother.

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

Now I can feel them. I hate apples but I love apple halves. True story.

Of course you do. They are easier and more fun to eat.

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

Yes!

Matt Эллен

@KitFox you could play the game like I play - if you don't like their argument pretend they didn't say it

Hmm. Maybe I should try that.

3:25 PM

@RegDwightΒВBẞ8 apple quarters are even better

@KitFox hugs They'll understand.

shares apple with @aedia

I have one of those apple corer slicer things... sixths might be what it makes. It works ok but requires a lot of force.

@KitFox Awwh thanks!

My apples are never that straight.

Matt Эллен

@aediaλ and if you're not careful your hoof crushes the apple

3:27 PM

@MattЭллен Exactly!

Yesterday we flew kites. It was lots of fun.

I fixed the kite twice when it crashed into the apple trees.

Matt Эллен

yeah, that sounds fun :)

Then the string broke when it was about a mile up, and it landed in a tree three doors down.

And it doesn't work for small or misshappen apples as well, but you can use it on most and then only spend the time to trim the little bit of core out of the inside of some slices.

So we went to get new ones. $2 a pop.

3:28 PM

Kite kite kite! Yay!

Wow.

And we went to the park on the way home.

The first one lasted about 3 minutes.

The second one lasted literally 3 seconds.

So we've decided to make our own kites this weekend.

Still, it was a good way to kill almost two hours. Outdoors and in the sunshine.

I'm not so good at kites. I've had a few nice ones, but there aren't that many giant areas away from trees and wires close to my childhood home, so I never flew them up that high.

Also I liked decorating too much and would always make my homemade kites too heavy.

I adore kites though.

We have a small field with some low trees, but we did pretty well.

@aediaλ I was never good at kites, either. If they made a movie about my experiences, it would be called The Kite Ruiner.

There's just enough room to get the kite high enough to clear the trees.

3:30 PM

giggles

hahaha

I couldn't believe how crappy the replacement kites were though. They just fell apart.

Now I'm jonesing to make a kite with a fluttery tail.

user image

Mmm, yes.

We'll make a-frame kites, because that way we can re-use the plastic pieces from the crappy ones, but I want to put tails on them too.

I am debating whether I should use nylon or tissue paper.

Ooh thinking about this reminded me of all the styro and balsa toy airplanes we used to get.

Funny you should say that; it was the balsa glider on the kitchen counter that made me think of the kite yesterday.

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

3:34 PM

Commute! CU

Later!

Matt Эллен

l8r

Bai!

Hi there. This is the first time I've entered a chat room and I don't know how it works. However, I've got a question to submit to any good willing native English speaker, and I suppose it is too trivial for a proper question on EL&U.

Sure. Hi!

What's your question?

3:39 PM

Sorry, I didn't mean to send it straight away. The question is : in the sentence "Mr James, who recently (die), was a friend of mine." The presence of the adverb "recently" would invite me to use the present perfect, so "who has recently died", but the fact of dying is a permanent feature in the past, so should I use "who recently died" instead?

@Paola either could be correct

and there's very little difference in meaning between the variants... i'm trying to come up with something and drawing a little blank

You know, I feel awkward in saying so, but it is part of a class test I'm marking and I don't know the answer...

are you afraid of getting it wrong?

That is a bit awkward. :-)

both of them are grammatical in english, and a native speaker could use either one

that probably doesn't help you a lot, alas

3:42 PM

well, yes, I wouldn't want to say that a student is wrong when they aren't. So in your opinion I should accept both choices. (and perhaps next time check the exercise I'm copying from some book before doing so... )

I think I have a preference for "who recently died" but it's something about how it feels in that clause...

You could also say "who had recently died," depending on the circumstances.

thanks for the option, but I think the exercise did not cover past perfect

I can't put my finger on it, but adding the "has" or "had" sounds off to me.

Matt Эллен

@Robusto I think you'd then need to say "had been a friend of mine"

3:44 PM

Or was.

Matt Эллен

"was" sounds like you're mixing tenses in a bad way

I would probably say "Mr. James, who recently died, was a friend of mine." I am a native American English speaker from the east coast USA. (And in many situations, I would actually say "Mr. James, who recently passed away, was a friend of mine," because this euphemism is so common it is normal not to use the word "die".)

Matt Эллен

maybe I'm over analysing

Well, if you weren't before, you are now.

:D

Matt Эллен

:D

3:46 PM

We might say, "Mr. James, who has recently died, lives on in our hearts."

@ aedia lambda. I suppose you are right about "passing away", but again it was not an essay, just some stupid "fill in the blanks" exercise, with very little choice for digressions.

thank you all anyway, I guess my students will take advantage of your suggestions and will be right whatever they have chosen to write.

I don't think I would say "Mr. James, who has recently died, was a friend of mine." It doesn't seem wrong but something about it sounds marked; I don't think I say a person "has recently eaten" or "has recently driven", etc.

To me those sound like something I would immediately recognize as not my own speech community. I'm sorry that doesn't help when you need a "right" answer, @Paola!

@aedia lambda. However in British English the Present Perfect is the usual tense with adverbs such as "often", "rarely", and "recently" should be one of the list.

Again, thank you all for your help and I'll come back for further discussion asap. Cheers.

Matt Эллен

Aye, it's certainly how British news papers and TV or radio news programmes report the deaths of public figures

@MattЭллен The was is totally unremarkable for me.

Funny.

Matt Эллен

3:51 PM

@aediaλ in what Robusto said?

oh, well, he didn't finish the sentence, but that's how I meant

@MattЭллен "Mr. James, who had recently died, was a friend of mine" or "Mr. James, who had recently died, had been a friend of mine" sound equally fine to me

Matt Эллен

I'm not sure, but "Mr James, who had recently died, was a friend of mine" jars with me for some reason

"Matt, who had recently eaten lunch, was a friend of mine" is totally fine for me. Except that I probably would never construct that sentence in normal speech, but it's not the was that's the issue

I've probably poisoned myself now anyhow with all these examples and can't judge anything.

Matt Эллен

happy robot is happy

user image

Hahahaha!

3:56 PM

aedia, who had recently been an absolute master of tenses, suddenly seemed unsure of herself — but will she find her way back?

0

Q: What to call a winged unicorn?

I've heard a few ways of describing such a fantastical beast, but I don't know which is correct. They are known as both Alicorns (Ali supposedly from ala (wing) and Corn meaning horn), as well as Pegi(a)corn, a portmanteau of Pegasus and Unicorn (I've seen both an i and an a used). which of t...

Please. Kill. This.

Aww. It would have been a nice question 26 days ago.

Matt Эллен

were you a unicorn with wings, that day?

Sometimes you have to kill unicorn questions for the good of the community. It's a harsh world.

Matt Эллен

oh! april the 1st

> One way to do this is with a simple flat washer having the distance from the hole to outer edge that matches your seam or hem allowance. This is used as a pencil guide to mark a line around the template onto the fabric.

OMG, how have I never heard of this trick?

That's effing brilliant.

4:15 PM

3

Q: Word for "feeling the same as someone"

What is the word for when you feel the same as someone, you see them in yourself or you are in the same situation? I think it starts with the letter C.

single-word-requests

Strange, someone just downvoted an old answer of mine with no comment, and both the other answers too (from aedia and jimreed)

Matt Эллен

@KitFox yep. I've read that 3 times now. I still don't get it

@Hugo drive by downvoters. we're all just collateral to them

@MattЭллен You have a cardboard template, but you need to include a seam allowance, so you use a washer to trace a fixed margin around it.

Matt Эллен

@KitFox oh! thanks :)

If only I could read Italian, this plan looks like a good start.

Matt Эллен

@KitFox Google translate not working for you?

4:23 PM

Well, I suppose there's that.

Matt Эллен

It's not great, but it's easier to read than Italian (unless you can read Italian)

> it's hard to miss at least one copy of the bag a good aquilonista.

Hmm.

Matt Эллен

aquila = eagle

> This provision complies with the "straight grain" of the fabric that is making its plot homogeneous deformation of the wings and ensuring a more stable flight.

I can probably figure this out.

Matt Эллен

we've been called silly for closing the winged unicorn question

4:27 PM

...or maybe I should just buy a nylon kite.

Matt Эллен

@Pureferret Your question was on topic there, I don't get why they closed it. Silly. — Nathan C. Tresch 9 mins ago

@KitFox maybe. I've not made a kite before. I don't know how frustrating it would be

It's complicated, although it wouldn't be if I would just do it as a craft rather than a hobby.

Matt Эллен

because you've so much time for that!

Well, if the boys and I did it together...

@MattЭллен We make the hard choices here. Theirs is a fantasy land; they can afford to be generous.

Matt Эллен

4:32 PM

@KitFox you could give up programming?

Hahaha. That's not what I meant.

Matt Эллен

oh :D

Oh shit! Programming. I knew there was something I was supposed to be doing today.

Matt Эллен

well, it's never too late! Even I did some programming today

I have to send out a meeting reminder.

Matt Эллен

4:38 PM

I had to remind our project manager that Friday is a bad day for a meeting after 1pm (since everyone will be gone or going)

> oh yes spluter splutter I meant the 3rd of May. How did that happen?

Hahaha.

Must've been thinking of El Cinco de Mayo.

Matt Эллен

:D he does have a Mexican look about him

I could still get taco salad...

Matt Эллен

it's salad, so it's healthy...

no calories in salad

It's not the calories so much as the pouring rain.

Matt Эллен

4:49 PM

True. I need to go an buy something for breakfast tomorrow, but the rain just won't stop

maybe I should go now. it seems to be letting up a bit.

♫ the sun is a miasma ♪ of incandescent plasma ♫

Matt Эллен

bbl - shopping!

@KitFox And when it shines on the weeds it's giving me asthma.

dictionary.reference.com/browse/…

Hippopotomonstrosesquippedaliophobia - fear of long words

5:19 PM

@kitfox - forget what you've been told in the past

Just saw the Giants, they did not play anything from that album. :(

That's how science works.

I need to get that for the car.

If I could figure out how my phone works...

Hey Neil, what do you think of the any more/anymore question?

2

Q: What does "I can't agree with you more" mean?

I've recently encountered three sentences: I can't agree with you more. I can't agree with you any more. I can't agree with you anymore. What do these three sentences mean? Are they the same, or are there any differences?

I feel confused enough now that I want to ask a question about it.

5:42 PM

Anybody know anything about asp.net's menu control?

Matt Эллен

Sorry, Kit, I got nothing

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