English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

Theta30

12:28 AM

i starred Mahnax but for nothing

I misunderstood what he said about Shog

user19161

@Theta30 How did you interpret it?

user19161

@aediaλ Sweet!

Theta30

@JasperLoy something associated with Valentine Day

Theta30

1:06 AM

9

Q: It's vegetarian & vegan week! Ask great questions, enter to win a prize

We kicked off a Topic of the Week series on a few other sites, and now we're bringing it to Cooking Stack Exchange! The basic idea is to increase the content we have about hot and/or underrepresented topics. We started off with questions about deep frying (based on discussion in the introductory ...

Robusto

1:20 AM

@aediaλ Working backwards, we might suppose that the singular of gloves is glof.

Robusto

2:00 AM

Dis place is dead as disco.

Spare Oom

Indeed.

Cerberus

@Theta30 Haha that is funny.

Robusto

Yeah, they can keep their vegans. We got Grammar Girl.

Spare Oom

Does EL&U need a topic of the week?

Robusto

Which reminds me: does Grammar Girl have a sidekick? Or is she in fact a sidekick herself, and if so, who plays Batman to her Robin, Xena to her Gabrielle? Hmm ... Language Lady?

Spare Oom

2:10 AM

I think of her more as an Ann Landers type, but I don't know if that's accurate.

Robusto

And does she do battle, a la Mystery Men, with hosts of themed gangs? "Grammar Girl battles the Syntax Sluts," perhaps?

Spare Oom

She could use a sidekick named Linguistics Lad or Language Lad.

Robusto

@SpareOom Sidekicks are never opposite gender from the superhero. That would violate some taboo or something.

Spare Oom

I didn't know that. Then Lass, instead of Lad.

Or what about Punctuation Pipsqueak?

Robusto

2:25 AM

@SpareOom Pipsqueaks are usually guys as well.

Spare Oom

@Robusto I thought they could be children of either gender. thefreedictionary.com/pipsqueak I had to look.

user19161

@Robusto Everyone is out for dinner perhaps.

Spare Oom

@JasperLoy I think it's usually peak time about now. At least by the bar graph.

user19161

@SpareOom Listening to it got me hopping for a while.

user19161

@SpareOom It's a special day.

Spare Oom

2:32 AM

For some, yes.

user19161

And after dinner comes something else...

Spare Oom

I was talking to a co-worker yesterday who doesn't like this day.

user19161

No need to dislike it, one can just be neutral.

user19161

Everyday is the same actually, a finite day in a finite life.

user19161

Live it well, live it fully.

Spare Oom

2:35 AM

It's a hard reminder for many. I think all days should be about the same. Treat people the same on a day that isn't special. That way there are no hard feelings if neglected on a supposedly special day.

user19161

Well, I watched a comedy which goes like this.

user19161

A said "No hard feelings!"

user19161

B said "No worries, no feelings at all!"

user19161

End of story.

Spare Oom

@JasperLoy Ok, I guess I can see that as funny in a comedy.

user19161

2:48 AM

@SpareOom Actually in a way it's true that sometimes hard feelings become no feelings at all over time.

user19161

Art mirrors life and life mirrors art.

Spare Oom

Good night.

user19161

@SpareOom Sweet dreams.

Cerberus

3:45 AM

Holla.

Mahnax

4:52 AM

Hi Cerb.

Cerberus

Hi!

Mahnax

I'm currently getting MS Office for Mac.

Cerberus

Oh, noes!

Mahnax

Oh, it wants me to quit Safari to install something, brb.

Cerberus

Pollute your Mac with M$$??

Mahnax

4:54 AM

Yeah, just so I can actually be fully compatible with school stuff.

I didn't have to pay for it.

My mom bought it for her new Mac, so I got it too.

Cerberus

Good.

Although Libre Office is 99 % compatible.

Mahnax

I had to force it to quit once.

Cerberus

Which version is it? 2010?

Mahnax

Yeah.

Cerberus

Libre Office?

Mahnax

4:55 AM

No, 2011.

Cerberus

Oh, I didn't know there was a 2011.

Mahnax

There is, apparently.

Excel is so darn cluttered.

Cerberus

Wow lots of buttons.

But that is the ribbon's fault.

Mahnax

I suppose it is.

Cerberus

Mahnax

4:59 AM

@Cerberus So much nicer.

My great-grandmother is Dutch.

Cerberus

Yeah...I suppose this ribbon can be useful, but it takes up a lot of space, and why force people to learn something new if the old thing worked well?

@Mahnax Oh! Congratulations!

Mahnax

@Cerberus Merci.

She is 88 and still the smartest person I know.

Cerberus

But I heard there was an option to get the menu bar back.

Mahnax

Oh? I want it.

Cerberus

Could you check whether that is an option somewhere?

Mahnax

5:01 AM

Found it!

Cerberus

Perhaps here.

Ah!

Mahnax

Here is the new look.

I will show you where the option is in a second.

Cerberus

Ahh.

OK.

But do you have the menus File, Edit, etc. back as well?

Mahnax

In the "ribbon" category.

Cerberus

Ah OK.

Mahnax

5:03 AM

@Cerberus Mac always has that.

I'll show you.

Cerberus

Oh!

Mahnax

That little bar is always at the top of your screen. Of course, the options on the left side change with the app.

Cerberus

Ah, but can you also get the Excel menu bar?

Mahnax

@Cerberus Yep.

It shows the appropriate bar for whatever app you have focus on.

Cerberus

Ah, good.

Mahnax

5:05 AM

Yes, it is very nice.

Cerberus

I suppose a fixed bar for all applications is not a bad idea.

Mahnax

You see the Canadian flag in the first menu bar pic?

That is where I change my keyboard layout.

Cerberus

Oh, right.

That's in the taskbar in Win.

Mahnax

Or I can use my keyboard, Cmd + spacebar.

Cerberus

Or it can be, unless you remove it.

Yeah Win has a hotkey for that too.

Mahnax

5:07 AM

Yep, you can remove some of the icons if you so desire.

And the little magnifying glass will look up anything for you.

Cerberus

Yay!

Mahnax

Type in a word, it brings up files, applications, definitions, etc.

It is just bundles of fun.

Cerberus

Yeah I have compared my program that does that with Rob's Mac search.

Mahnax

Anyways, I can't imagine it's all that much fun listening to me rant about my computer.

@Cerberus What were your findings?

Cerberus

Turns out my program is slightly better, muwahaha.

Mahnax

5:09 AM

In what way?

Cerberus

Because it auto-highlights the words in the document, it can jump from one instance of a word to the next inside the document; and it auto-searches as you type.

Mahnax

Ah, cool.

Cerberus

Maybe there was something else.

Mahnax

Oh, it can also take you to system prefs.

Cerberus

Oh, one limitation I recently discovered that, while it can search large PDF documents, it can only display hits in the first hundred pages or so. So it will find them, but you need to open the PDF and search it to find the specific hit, if it is on page 200 or so.

@Mahnax Oh, that's nice.

Mahnax

5:11 AM

Here is the list of things it can search:

Cerberus

Can you add and remove specific file types?

Mahnax

@Cerberus Hmm, never tried.

Cerberus

And how fast is it?

Mahnax

Instant.

Cerberus

Do results appear instantly?

Ah OK.

Mahnax

5:13 AM

They appear as you type.

Cerberus

Oh, OK.

Mahnax

@Cerberus It does not appear that you can, however, you can prevent it from searching certain places.

Cerberus

Hmm...

I need it to search within .ahk files.

They are basically .txt files but with a different extension.

Mahnax

hints.macworld.com/dlfiles/spotlight_cmds.pdf

I never knew that Spotlight could get so advanced.

Cerberus

Nice.

Mahnax

5:17 AM

I might have to try some of those out.

I have studied for a solid three hours today.

I should study a little more, though. Goodbye for now!

Cerberus

Wow.

That is long!

Mahnax

I agree!

Cerberus

Tests?

Exams?

Mahnax

Yes.

Tests.

Cerberus

Ahhh.

Mahnax

5:21 AM

Physics and Biology.

Cerberus

Good luck, then!

Mahnax

Thanks!

nrroooomm

user19161

@Cerberus Why does everyone call it M$$?

user19161

It's a bit unfair to Microsoft. It's just a company which needs to make money, but it does make good products.

user19161

Not saying the use of such notation is wrong, but it feels excessive.

Cerberus

5:40 AM

@JasperLoy Hi!

It is more or less a joke.

But Microsoft was by far the richest software company for a long while.

And Linux is free, more or less.

As you should know.

Mahnax

5:58 AM

J'ai retourné.

Cerberus

That was quick.

Name the bones in a snake's body.

Mahnax

Yep. I just had to finish going through some stuff about muscles.

@Cerberus We aren't learning that.

And, wait.

Cerberus

Oh.

Mahnax

@Cerberus Many ribs and vertebrae, I'd guess.

Cerberus

Probably.

I wonder how that happened, evolutionarily.

Mahnax

6:06 AM

My friend's mom breeds snakes, I could ask her.

Cerberus

Growing extra vertebrae would seem a complex business.

Mahnax

It would seem that way, now that I think about it.

At the moment, I don't know much about evolution.

Cerberus

But I guess once the gene that determines how many vertebrae you have is loosened up, the rest come quicker.

Mahnax

Sure, that makes sense.

Cerberus

@Mahnax But all the more about divine creation?

Mahnax

6:07 AM

@Cerberus I am a creationist, sure.

Cerberus

Cool.

Mahnax

I'm totally open to learning about evolution, though.

Cerberus

Wait, what?

You were serious?

Mahnax

About which point?

Cerberus

About being a creationist?

Mahnax

6:08 AM

Yep.

Cerberus

Ah.

Mahnax

I hope that doesn't impact your thoughts of me, but yeah.

Cerberus

Be careful whom you mention that to around these parts!

Mahnax

I know, I know.

I'll get roasted, or something.

Cerberus

Toleration is not always one of our strongest points.

Mahnax

6:10 AM

So I've noticed.

Cerberus

Uniformity usually reduces toleration.

Mahnax

That is why I have mostly kept my religious beliefs to myself.

Cerberus

Wise.

And proper etiquette, probably.

Mahnax

I don't feel the need to spread it around everywhere I go.

Cerberus

Although I would actually be interested to see what people would say here.

Mahnax

6:11 AM

As would I, I'm just concerned about how out of hand things might get.

Cerberus

They would probably be polite enough.

Oh, they wouldn't get out of hand.

Mahnax

I imagine that Reg might denounce me as an utter and complete fool.

Cerberus

Nah.

Mahnax

@Cerberus You don't think so?

Cerberus

No.

Mahnax

6:12 AM

Oh, well maybe we should all have a discussion about such things at some point, then.

Then again, maybe not.

Cerberus

Vit is the most ardent atheist of the bunch. But he would not attack people personally unless invited to.

Mahnax

Vit has very strong opinions about everything, from what little I've seen of him.

I've been starred again?

Cerberus

Mr S. and Rob can be fairly anti-religious too, but Rob doesn't like to go on about the same point, and Mr S. knows this battle has been fought so many times that it stopped being interesting.

@Mahnax Oh!

Mahnax

@Cerberus Was that you?

Cerberus

That must be Digi or Caleb, then.

Nope.

Mahnax

6:15 AM

It may have been our visitor.

Cerberus

I would certainly not encourage creationism, hehe.

Mahnax

He seems to be active on two religious sites.

@Cerberus I know.

Cerberus

@Mahnax Haha, poor guy. There goes his "anonymous" star.

Mahnax

Does Caleb ever say anything here?

@Cerberus Shhh, don't spook him.

Cerberus

Ehh not that I remember, but perhaps occasionally.

Mahnax

6:17 AM

His last was over 100 days ago.

Cerberus

By the way, how literally do you believe in creationism?

Mahnax

Good question.

Cerberus

Or would you rather save that for another time.

Mahnax

Hmm, maybe I will send you an e-mail, I think that would be better than posting it all here.

Cerberus

By the way, now I understand your Apple worship better, hehe.

Mahnax

6:18 AM

If you don't mind, of course.

Cerberus

Not at all!

As long as you don't expect an extended religious discussion, hehe.

Mahnax

Alright, I shall write one then. Give me a few minutes, s'il vous plaît.

@Cerberus I don't.

Cerberus

Bien sûr.

digitaloday

I've already been (indirectly) labeled a heretic on one of SE's religious sites, so I should probably keep my views to myself ;) meta.hermeneutics.stackexchange.com/questions/266/…

Mahnax

Alright, sent.

Please bear in mind that it is late here and I'm a bit tired.

Cerberus

6:29 AM

@digitaloday Haha, wow! That is pretty crazy. I mean, people accusing each other of heresy and then having to debate it.

@Mahnax Ah OK!

digitaloday

The mods are discussing what to do with it and whatnot, and a meta post is a good start lol.

Cerberus

Phew.

Mahnax

@Cerberus Phew what?

digitaloday

I just discovered the English SE site a few minutes ago when Googling for how to use 'data' (plural vs singular)

Cerberus

Haha nice!

digitaloday

6:35 AM

There is practically a SE for everything

Mahnax

@digitaloday Certainly.

Cerberus

I keep wondering whether it comes up high on Google because it knows you often got to SE, or whether it is "objectively" in the top results.

digitaloday

and i just started using it for non-work-related stuff for the first time this week

Cerberus

@Mahnax I'm trying to reply, but the M$ $ilverlight plug-in crashed and now Hotmail won't load at all.

digitaloday

i think becuz i have used it so much recently, because the sites seemed pretty tailored to my research and field

Mahnax

6:36 AM

@Cerberus Huhm...

Cerberus

Oh, you work in IT?

Mahnax

0

Q: What could we call a person with deep knowledge in various fields?

I just wondered, what could we call a person with deep knowledge in various fields? For example, computers, music, sports, etc. I think I could use sage, but it wouldn't be appropriate if someone is experienced in multiple fields.

word-choice single-word-requests

Cerberus

Yeah, could be.

BRB restarting FF.

Mahnax

Editing things like this (see edit history) is painful.

digitaloday

I have an IT-related job(s), yes

Mahnax

6:37 AM

I have a fast-food related job.

sniffle

digitaloday

i've been there too, and ya never know, i might return there one day.

(if I stay on my philanthropic kicks, I just might)

Mahnax

Well, it's not bad, considering my being in high school yet, but it still isn't very pleasant.

digitaloday

oh well u have plenty of time to identify other opportunities (altho there's no shame in where ur at, either)

Cerberus

@Mahnax Why do you do it anyway?

And why no tutoring instead?

Much more pleasant work, and higher pay, probably.

Mahnax

@Cerberus Who do I do it? What?

Cerberus

6:40 AM

Oops! "Why".

Hotmail still refuses to budge.

Mahnax

@Cerberus It's one of the few jobs available to people my age.

@Cerberus Even on hotmail.nl?

Cerberus

But why do you need a job?

Mahnax

Once I turn 16, insurance will go up on our vehicles.

Cerberus

@Mahnax Yeah it all links back to the same site.

Mahnax

I have to pay the difference.

Cerberus

6:42 AM

What?

I don't get it.

Mahnax

If I ever want to drive, that is.

Cerberus

Ah.

So why would you want to?

digitaloday

The difference between what his insurance premium is currently versus what it will be after he turns 16, I believe.

Mahnax

Well, it becomes necessary.

Cerberus

Really? Why?

@digitaloday Hmm yes...the car thing came as a bit of a surprise.

Mahnax

6:43 AM

Well, I want to have my full license as soon as I am 18.

There are 3 stages here.

And I will be out of high school before I'm 18.

@Cerberus To be honest, I would really love the freedom.

Most people here start driving as young as possible.

Cerberus

Ah OK.

Mahnax

At last count, I had 11 e-mail addresses.

Cerberus

So the license is worth the years of drudgery. I suppose that makes sense in a way.

Mahnax

@Cerberus Yep.

Cerberus

@Mahnax I never keep count. I only really use two.

Mahnax

6:46 AM

@Cerberus Same here.

Cerberus

I never spent any money at all in high school.

Mahnax

None?

Cerberus

Well, hardly any.

I saved up my allowance.

Mahnax

For what?

Cerberus

I had nothing to spend it on.

Mahnax

6:47 AM

Aww.

Cerberus

For having it in case I ever needed it, hehe.

I mean, my parents paid for my clothes. I hated buying clothes anyway.

Mahnax

I hate buying clothes too.

Cerberus

Food I got at home. Maybe I bought some snack or something a few times a year. I did start going out around 17, then I needed maybe f. 10 a week for drinks, but that was all.

Mahnax

Hm.

Hotmail still on the fritz?

Cerberus

Mahnax

6:51 AM

Well, that's interesting.

Cerberus

I would reply from my Gmail, but I can't see your address, hehe.

Mahnax

@Cerberus Oh, you can't?

Cerberus

Nope, Hotmail just won't load.

I do have my (short) reply on clipboard.

Mahnax

I'll say it, then delete it real quick, if you like.

Cerberus

Shall I post it here?

Mahnax

6:52 AM

Meh.

Cerberus

Hey I know. You can just send it to my Gmail: Replace "hot" with "g".

Mahnax

Okay.

Cerberus

(I have a simple mind.)

Mahnax

Haha.

Oh, darn. Now you can see my last name.

Don't go abusing that.

Cerberus

Uh I could see it too in your first e-mail.

And I had seen it before anyway.

That is, it looked familiar.

Mahnax

6:57 AM

You had?

Cerberus

Yes, apparently.

I don't remember where.

Mahnax

Hmm. Interesting.

Cerberus

Have you sent me an e-mail before?

You must have, or how else did you know my address?

Mahnax

@Cerberus You sent one to me.

About Chatzy.

Cerberus

Oh, aha.

Then you must have replied to it or something?

Mahnax

6:59 AM

Maybe.

Let me check.

Yep, I did.

Cerberus

Then that's probably it.

Mahnax

Probably.

Cerberus

The content of messages and observations is much easier to store in memory than meta-data, like when you first heard something, whom you have told it to, etc.

Mahnax

Unfortunately, I really do need some sleep, so I won't be responding to your e-mail tonight.

digitaloday

Sleep... what is that again? ;)

Cerberus

7:01 AM

That's why people forget that they have told the same story before, while the other person will immediately know that he has heard it before.

OK, good night!

digitaloday

I'm finishing some code then I will also crash

Mahnax

Yep, night!

digitaloday

nite

Cerberus

@digitaloday It is this thing people do in films; they suddenly lie down or something.

digitaloday

lol

well, i should probably leave this room and focus on some last minute productivity. Nice chattin with ya. Adios

Cerberus

7:10 AM

@digitaloday Very wise, good luck!

Cerberus

7:55 AM

Haha, the "they're/their/there" guy is funny.

See my mildly sarcastic comment.

english.stackexchange.com/questions/58088/…

David Wallace

At that place is something fishy about your comment.

Oh, you mean the last comment, not the first one.

Maybe it's become too easy for pineapples to come here and get answers to elementary stuff like that, without really trying too hard for themselves.

Damn! I've just discovered an English error in a comment I posted on Programmers a while ago. I wrote "... methods do what they think you do", when I meant "... methods do what you think they do". Now I can't change it, and it reads kind of silly.

26

Q: New to TDD. Should I avoid private methods now?

I'm just now learning TDD. It's my understanding that private methods are untestable and shouldn't be worried about because the public API will provide enough information for verifying an object's integrity. I've understood OOP for a while. It's my understanding that private methods make objects...

object-oriented testing tdd

Cerberus

@DavidWallace You could delete it and repost it, since there are no comments replying to it...

@DavidWallace Yeah, well, it has always been like that, more or less.

David Wallace

8:14 AM

@Cerberus I suppose I could. I might leave it; I don't think anyone else has picked it up.

@Cerberus I suppose it has. So ELU fills some kind of niche, but not the one it was intended to fill.

Cerberus

@DavidWallace Yeah, everyone makes typos in comments, no biggie!

@DavidWallace Well, I don't know. What niche was it supposed to fill?

I mean, it is supposed to exclude (well, to a certain extent) the two main academic disciplines of English as studied in academia: literature and linguistics.

David Wallace

8:42 AM

To quote the faq, it's "... for linguists, etymologists, and (serious) English language enthusiasts ...". But it doesn't specify what these groups are supposed to do here. Presumably, any member of these groups understands there, they're and their; that is, fielding elementary questions isn't what's supposed to happen. But it's real purpose - well it seems to me like it's just a glorified chat room kind of thing.

Cerberus

*its

Its real purpose is to ask any interesting question that has to do with English but not literary criticism, and probably not linguistics.

David Wallace

9:08 AM

To ask, or to collect such questions?

Cerberus

To ask and to answer, I'd say.

The collecting happens naturally.

David Wallace

I'd say the opposite.

What I mean is, with time, we build up a useful database of collections and answers. Each question becomes a gift that keeps on giving. So the benefit of the site in this way is (literally) infintely better than the benefit of the site as an "I ask a question now and get an answer" system. The "ask and answer" is a necessary side-effect to the building up of the database.

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English Language & Usage: Multi-Layer…