English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

FallenAngelEyes

00:01

Also, on an amusing note, in Civ V, they actually have incorporated the player term "culture bomb" for the Great Artist

Kit

@aedia Are you talking about sex again?

aedia

Culture flipping is so much better. Or you can pay. With some, you must keep paying, though...

Spare Oom

@Cerberus Is this a game you're playing?

aedia

City-states, @Kit. Not you. Shh.

@Spare Civilization!

Kit

@aedia I was going to say, I'm familiar with missionary, but is yesterday's conquering method like congress of the cow or two fishes touching fins?

@aedia Which is to say, yes.

Cerberus

00:03

Arg I can't find a good source. But it appears that Beyond the Sword includes everything from Warlords except the scenarios.

Kit

(Since it's not obvious that Civilization is the name of a game.)

Cerberus

So Fall from Heaven should work without Warlords.

@aedia But missionaries help with cultural spreading, don't they? Flipping cities is my favourite too!

@FallenAngelEyes Haha, that is silly.

@SpareOom Civilization IV, best game of all times (well, I haven't played V yet).

And I am playing the mod Fall from Heaven now, with is glorious.

@Kit I don't want to know what those are.

Kit

@Cerberus If you don't, I think you do.

FallenAngelEyes

Okies, I'm gonna fullscreen and go play some more Terraria. :)

Spare Oom

@Cerberus Does it require fast reflexes?

Cerberus

00:06

By the way, my spelling corrector is great as well! Thank you, dear code, for not obstructing my desires this time!

@Kit Perhaps so. But etiquette!

@FallenAngelEyes What is that?

Is it as good as Civ?

FallenAngelEyes

Compleeeeetely different type of game.

Cerberus

@SpareOom On the contrary! Everything fully turn based.

Spare Oom

Lovely!

Cerberus

If you like exploration, building, progress, and conquest (not required), you will love it.

Seriously: many people consider the Civ series the best computer games of all times. For now, I agree. None have given me as much fun and pleasure, and taken away so much of my time.

Buy Civilization IV.

FallenAngelEyes

It has 2D sprite graphics. It's a bit like Minecraft where you start out with practically nothing and can use found resources to build up your world, but it also has many more enemy types to fight. There's also more weapons and stuff to find.

aedia

00:09

Blargh bad bus messing up my phone typing. I don't think there are any missionaries at all in Civ V. Is how I came to make bad jokes.

Spare Oom

I like exploration but I'm not sure I've done the rest. Most of what I played were exploration with puzzles to solve.

FallenAngelEyes

@Cerberus My b/f and I have a house rule that we never start a Civ game after 10pm.

Cerberus

Or download Civ I if you can find it. It was so incredibly fun! Made around 1990 I think. I was a little boy, and it was magical. And when I played it again five years later, it was just as good!

@FallenAngelEyes Nah it's not really like Minecraft!

Spare Oom

1990 is about my speed. lol

FallenAngelEyes

@Cerberus I mean Terraria!

Kit

00:10

Kind of like Ages of Empires?

Cerberus

@FallenAngelEyes Ahh! I was wondering about your Civviness already!

@Kit Age of Empires is real time, and it is a different genre: Real-Time Strategy. There are similarities, but Civ is so much deeper.

@SpareOom You start with a settler. You need to find a good place to build your first city.

FallenAngelEyes

@Kit Civ is Turn-based Strategy rather than RTS

Kit

@Cerberus I know Civ, I meant Terraria.

FallenAngelEyes

Oh, no, it's not in the same genre of games at all.

Kit

I should've linked. Sorry.

Cerberus

00:13

Then you build improvements, military units, you research new technologies (core of the game), you meet different civilizations, you negotiate, befriend, or battle them; and you produce culture, which may or may not make some of their cities like you so much that they will join your empire.

@Kit Oops sorry!

Well, enough evangelizing.

Kit

We had a whole lovefest about Civ 4 the other night, when someone mentioned Civ 5.

Cerberus

Haha yay!

Oh, I remember that! I was there I think.

Or two days ago?

Kit

I think so.

One of my comments got starred.

Cerberus

In any case, I am happy now.

Spare Oom

It's addictive?

Kit

00:14

@SpareOom Absolutely.

aedia

I think we were all there. Maybe JSB too, or someone else.

Cerberus

Addictive... well... is crack addictive?

Spare Oom

Am I the only one who hasn't heard of it?

Cerberus

The famous maxim is, "just one more turn".

Then the sun rises.

Then you need to hurry to get to work in time.

Kit

Sounds pretty accurate.

Spare Oom

00:16

And skip breakfast?

Cerberus

But you have build the Pyramids before the Americans have!

Kit

Jul 27 at 2:19, by Kit

@aedia There's a Civ 5? So that's what my husband has been hiding from me.

Cerberus

Food will be skipped in any case.

Kit

There it is.

aedia

I didn't play it at all until IV, or think much of it, @Spare. Age of Empires was my thing before that.

Cerberus

00:17

AoE? Really?

Spare Oom

Does it play in order? I mean, is it better if I start with Civ I?

aedia

Yep I thought I didn't like turn based games

Cerberus

But now you have been Turned, haven't you? Do you ever covet AoE any more?

Kit

@SpareOom No.

Cerberus

No, start with IV I think.

aedia

00:17

But I played every freaking AoE.

Cerberus

Aww.

Well AoE was fun too.

Kit

@Cerberus Sometimes I prefer AoE, but usually only when my husband won't tell me where he hid the Civ disc.

Cerberus

Haha.

Kit

I had it for free on my Vaio.

aedia

@Cerb I reminisce about the Titans expansion for Age of Mythology. Smash!

Cerberus

00:19

@SpareOom You will be puzzled by the countless different factors to consider at first. It takes an hour or two before you get some kind of overview of what is good and what isn't. But then you'll be addicted.

@aedia Oh, is AoM fun? I think I have played the demo once, but I don't remember much.

simchona

Win. I got to quote "Jabberwocky" in an answer.

aedia

And I do think there is some feeling in the back of my mind that I'm not sure I got through every campaign ever without cheating. I kinda want to replay all of them, someday. If I'm ever, like, really really really bored I guess.

Spare Oom

@simchona Congrats.

Kit

@simchona Oh dear. That reminds me of a painful interchange when I was new here.

aedia

@Cerberus AoM is so great! Dragons and Chimera and Valkyrie and all kinds of awesome beauties!

Kit

00:22

Oh my!

aedia

@simchona Sweet!

Cerberus

It is RTS, innit?

(Random screenshot from Civ IV.)

aedia

AoM RTS? Yes.

Cerberus

Is it comparable to Warcraft or Starcraft at all?

Or C&C?

aedia

C&C = Command and Conquer? Age of Empires and Age of Mythology are most like that.

FallenAngelEyes

00:29

I have the C&C First Decade collection too. :D (... I spend a lot of money on gaming)

aedia

And Starcraft is like that if you are on speed.

Mana

man, such an intense game, SC is

I get chills just thinking about when I used to play. Such a blast.

aedia

Now y'all makin' me wanna play Tiberian Sun and Red Alert again.

Cerberus

So many games...

But Civ really is the Queen that rules them all!

aedia

@fallen I think my household owns those too. But I never got into most of 'em.

Spare Oom

00:33

I haven't really played a game since Gabriel Knight.

Cerberus

It will find them and in darkness bind them, until the sun comes up...

@SpareOom That looks about the same age as Civ I. Was it fun?

Spare Oom

Civ, AoE, AoM are all new to me - new genres.

I enjoyed it.

Cerberus

I remember the title and the box. But I never got it.

Well, if you should ever decide to play a game again, or give one to your kids, Civ is really a very good choice.

Spare Oom

That type of game seems to have disappeared as far as I know.

Cerberus

Educational too.

aedia

00:35

Stop it, puppy! I'm supposed to do the chores. And sleep. Not play. Will not play. Maybe... Maybe one game.

Cerberus

Is it an adventure game?

Spare Oom

I may try that one.

Cerberus

@aedia Play just one turn!

Kit

@Cerberus Sort of.

Cerberus

@Kit I learned all sorts of things from it.

Though some of the technologies I only found out later what they meant—my English vocabulary wasn't huge when I was 12.

Kit

00:36

Well, I'm not entirely certain it's terribly accurate.

Cerberus

Like metallurgy... I had no idea what it was, but I sure knew you needed it to build cannon!

Kit

But more so than Oregon Trail, I suppose.

Cerberus

Oh, it isn't accurate at all.

aedia

@Cerb I could try just one turn :)

Kit

@aedia Are you hungover today?

Cerberus

00:37

But for young kids it is more educational than most other games.

aedia

Oh my stars, Oregon Trail.

Cerberus

@aedia Hehe, yes, you would no doubt be able to try one turn!

Spare Oom

Gabriel Knight

Gabriel Knight is a series of adventure games produced by Sierra On-Line in the 1990s. Three games were released in the series: Gabriel Knight: Sins of the Fathers, The Beast Within: A Gabriel Knight Mystery and Gabriel Knight 3: Blood of the Sacred, Blood of the Damned. One compilation was released: Gabriel Knight Mysteries: Limited Edition. It included the first two games in the trilogy. Premise and concept The Gabriel Knight characters and games were created by writer Jane Jensen, who also worked on King's Quest VI: Heir Today, Gone Tomorrow with veteran game designer Roberta Wil...

Kit

Because a hangover as good an excuse as any to take it easy...

aedia

@Kit I woke up in the middle of the night hungover, but right as rain in the morning proper. Odd. Not complaining.

Spare Oom

00:38

Not as many puzzles as some other games I liked, though.

aedia

Haha, it would have been a good excuse.

Cerberus

@SpareOom I remember the box.

Kit

Sierra On-Line. Holy shit, that brings back memories.

King's Quest.

Spare Oom

@aedia I got a used computer that had that game on it.

Cerberus

Sierra!

Yes, memories indeed.

aedia

00:39

Kings Quest!!!!

Cerberus

And so many more. Caesar II.

Spare Oom

@aedia That was fun too.

Cerberus

King's Quest, another familiar name... but never played it.

Spare Oom

back in a bit

aedia

I think one of the KQs came with our first computer.

Cerberus

00:41

Well, I have an Adventurer to upgrade, a Great Lighthouse to build, and the gates of hell to close.

I'll be back in a bit.

Kit

We played Oregon Trail for social studies class when I was in school.

Cerberus

That game actually looked fun from the wiki page.

Spare Oom

Ok, this will date me: my first computer game: Truckers, in text.

simchona

@Kit How many times did you get dysentery?

aedia

We never got to play as part of class! Only after.

Cerberus

00:41

Truckers? Never heard of it.

Kit

It was a cutting edge educational tool.

FallenAngelEyes

@Kit So did we!

Spare Oom

My bf's roommate typed it in himself from a magazine.

Cerberus

But text adventures can be fun!

I remember the Multi-Dimensional Thief.

FallenAngelEyes

I also knew a girl who was descended from the Donner Party

Kit

00:42

@Cerberus Rogue.

Cerberus

@SpareOom Typed it in? You don't mean...

Kit

@SpareOom We had books of those. That's how I learned how to program when I was eight.

Cerberus

@Kit Is that what it was called?

Spare Oom

Oh, yeah I do.

Cerberus

wurb.com/if/game/136

Kit

00:43

@Cerberus Um, I think. Well, Multi-Dimensional Thief might have been a different game.

Cerberus

This is the game I meant (not Rogue). Perhaps a game in the same series?

@SpareOom You mean he typed in the entire code??

Kit

Oh no. Not remotely.

Cerberus

Oh ok.

Kit

@Cerberus You're too young to understand.

Cerberus

@Kit Nooo...

Spare Oom

00:44

clantemplates.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-122567.html Could this be it?

Cerberus

My first games were barely graphical, black and white.

Kit

Rogue (video game)

Rogue is a dungeon crawling video game first developed by Michael Toy and Glenn Wichman around 1980. It is generally credited with being the first "graphical" adventure game (although Mystery House released in 1980 was the first graphical adventure game, and Beneath Apple Manor released in 1978 was the ancestor to Rogue), and was a favorite on college Unix systems in the early to mid-1980s, in part due to the procedural generation of game content. Rogue popularized dungeon crawling as a video game trope, leading others to develop a class of derivatives known collectively as "roguelikes". ...

Spare Oom

I really got to run off for a bit.

Kit

@Cerberus My first games were completely text-based.

@SpareOom Later!

aedia

Adios, Spare Oom!

RegDwight

00:46

My first computer games were on MCs.

Cerberus

@Kit Ahh yes, that is entirely different.

M-D Thief is text based: turn on lightsabre, cut ceiling, that sort of thing.

Kit

We had a subscription to some magazine and a couple of books with programs you could type in.

simchona

Does anyone have any help on this question?

2

Q: Is there a term for a word coined to fit the rhyme/rhythm in a poem?

As in "Hickory Dickory Dock; the Mouse ran up the Clock..." (Perhaps there is a separate term for a real word used nonsensically (Hickory and Dock). Is there a word for this sort of usage?)

single-word-requests

Kit

@Cerberus Oh, like Zork?

Cerberus

Yes! Though I have never played that.

You know what's funny?

Kit

00:47

@Cerberus Cats with tinfoil on their feet?

simchona

@Kit Or flypaper

Cerberus

I still have a general impression of what the rooms looked like in M-D Thief and various images of Hell and the Ocean Room—even though there were no images.

@Kit Haha what? What happens when you do that?

simchona

@Cerberus They kind of high step trying to get it off

Cerberus

Aww.

simchona

High step shake shake shake

Kit

00:48

@Cerberus and twitch their feet in annoyance.

Cerberus

Cute.

Kit

LOL

Friggin' funny.

Cerberus

Putting things on cats can be fun.

Like party hats.

Kit

@simchona Um, it's not a neologism, and The Jabberwocky isn't gibberish.

aedia

I used to put bows on mine when I was a kid.

simchona

00:49

Pancake bunny?

Kit

@simchona Yum.

simchona

@Kit I can't find another word, though. And Wikipedia says so!

Cerberus

And what is even funnier is when they pretend it "doesn't bother them at all", then subtly push it off by walking under a chair.

Kit

@simchona There is a term for it, but I can't remember it right off.

Cerberus

Well, later!

aedia

00:51

Have fun in Hades!

simchona

@Kit Argh.

Kit

It's like when you stretch a word out into more syllables than it actually has.

Hi diddly ho! For instance.

simchona

What word is "dickory" stretching out?

Kit

It's the filler between hickory and dock.

I think both of your answers work, by the way. Don't be discouraged by my rambling.

But I'm pretty sure that there's a word for that particular thing.

simchona

@Kit I like creating good answers, though. It's one of those things where there should be a word and Google isn't helping

RegDwight

00:54

Hakunamatata.

Kit

Hola, friend.

simchona

@RegDwight But it means no worries!

Kit

@RegDwight You fill my request yet?

RegDwight

@simchona Precisely.

@Kit Huh wha where who's here?

simchona

@RegDwight It's a problem freeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

RegDwight

00:55

@simchona Probier's mal mit Gemütlichkeit!

►

simchona

@RegDwight Sounds better in English.

RegDwight

@simchona That's what you say.

simchona

@RegDwight I'm Englishist. It happens.

RegDwight

It's a prime example of excellent translation.

simchona

Does it really translate well?

RegDwight

00:57

Not if one sucks at translation, no.

simchona

Also, "Finding Nemo" killed the jokes in the French version

"Il a touche le bateau" no longer has the same innuendo

RegDwight

French localization always faces some awesome challenges.

aedia

@Kit are you thinking of something people do in singing, maybe? Or infixation?

Like abso-effing-lutely?

simchona

@aedia It's in response to this question I'm trying to answer:

2

Q: Is there a term for a word coined to fit the rhyme/rhythm in a poem?

As in "Hickory Dickory Dock; the Mouse ran up the Clock..." (Perhaps there is a separate term for a real word used nonsensically (Hickory and Dock). Is there a word for this sort of usage?)

single-word-requests

aedia

I can't think of any word that's like neologism, except neoplasm. Grawrg stupid brain, work.

I like your answer, @sim, now Kit is just driving me nuts making me think there might be an even better word!

simchona

01:02

That's why I asked ^^

Kit

@aedia Yes.

Sorry for the delay. Baby woke up.

aedia

Hmm. On reflection, I don't think it's infixation here, because that's usually used to describe a stem being split and something else stuck inside, and "Hickory Dock" isn't really a stem... But it does bear a resemblance to expletive infixation.

Maybe the phenomenon is tmesis?

Tmesis

Tmesis ( or ; Ancient Greek: tmēsis, "a cutting"

Cerberus

What about tmesis?

Oh, dickory. I'd say no.

Spare Oom

01:18

Hi again, y'all.

simchona

0

Q: Postfixing 're to words

Are there limited number of words we can append a 're to? Are the following words correct: where're here're

grammaticality

Comments on answer appreciated.

Spare Oom

@Cerberus Of course not, I helped some.

simchona

Also: peeving

0

Q: How can you make future tense of "to be" explicit and simple?

Okay, here's something that irritates me about our language. I can say "Jerry's been a bad pussycat this morning" or "Hey, Jerry, you be a good pussycat now" or "Jerry's been active all morning so he's being a good pussycat now". All these involve the use of the verb be. Now if I want to say "if...

grammar verbs irregular

Cerberus

@SpareOom Haha, a funny idea indeed.

Spare Oom

01:31

@simchona But I think it is a good question. She just needs to out the peeving part at the beginning.

simchona

@SpareOom She did

I asked her to take it out, and she did. No idea how to answer, though

Spare Oom

That was quick.

What if she says, "if he acts like a bad pussycat...."?

simchona

@SpareOom I think she wants "to be" in there

"If he should be" sounds okay, but is "should" ok?

Kit

Should be a "will, should, or would" I think.

Spare Oom

Subjunctive mood

In grammar, the subjunctive mood (abbreviated or ) is a verb mood typically used in subordinate clauses to express various states of irreality such as wish, emotion, possibility, judgment, opinion, necessity, or action that has not yet occurred. It is sometimes referred to as the conjunctive mood, as it often follows a conjunction. The details of subjunctive use vary from language to language. Indo-European languages Proto-Indo-European The reconstructed Proto Indo-European language is the hypothetical parent of many language families. These include the Romance languages, Celtic lang...

Kit

01:36

The "if" means she wouldn't be using future tense, but subjunctive instead, right?

Spare Oom

Should he be a bad cat...

Kit

@SpareOom Jinx!

Spare Oom

Or yes, what you said.

Kit

@SpareOom Nice.

simchona

@Spare, want to take this?

Spare Oom

01:37

@simchona No that's ok.

I'm too stressed when I try to answer. If you wait for me, someone else entirely will beat you to it.

Kit

@SpareOom Come on, then, give it a try.

Spare Oom

No, really, I'm too slow.

Kit

No one's jumping on it (except @simchona). You have plenty of time.

simchona

@SpareOom I'll hold off if you want to take it. Really.

Spare Oom

You almost had it yourself. Be my guest.

simchona

01:39

@Spare You brought up subjunctive. You have a better understanding to make it a better answer.

Spare Oom

Oh, help!

Kit

Write it, and we'll help you.

simchona

Yup!

Spare Oom

Ok, I could try that.

simchona

This chat is helpful on creating answers.

Cerberus

01:41

Any if clause is neither only in the past nor only in the present by itself, so "if Billy is" would seem fine. "If Billy should be" indicates that the speakers doesn't think it is the case.

Spare Oom

future subjunctive of to be is were to be, so she should say, "were Jake to be bad"?

Is that correct @Kit?

Kit

Uh, @Cerberus will know for sure.

I think so.

Spare Oom

Yeah he's a pineapple, I understand.

Kit

So he has a much better understanding of grammar.

aedia

This paper (pdf) mentions be's / bees as in "if he be's careful". I don't know enough to discuss it, really, but I want to point out that it is a dialect feature. That is, if he bees bad is grammatical in your dialect, it means nothing about your intelligence or lack thereof.

Kit

01:51

I would make the point that you are using the subjunctive because of the example sentence she gave. The future tense would be "Jack will be a bad pussycat," which is straightforward enough.

(Since she asks about future tense.)

Cerberus

@SpareOom Actually that may be just what the OP was looking for, sounds good.

Spare Oom

@Cerberus: Thanks.

@aedia That certainly is used in a dialect. You should add a comment to my post.

simchona

Your second sentence is a little off to me

Instead of : The future subjunctive mood for to be in clauses in which there is doubt, you would use if I/he/she/it, etc. were to be as follows

What about: In order to form the future subj. mood for "to be" in clauses..., you would use "If I/he...." as follows

Spare Oom

02:11

Good, thanks. Plus I added something else that I'm having trouble linking properly.

simchona

@Spare I didn't edit it--do you want me to?

Spare Oom

Yes, please. But my second link isn't working.

englishclub.com/grammar/verbs-subjunctive.htm

simchona

Is that the link you want to use for "when talking about..."?

You had the wrong URL -- I edited it @Spare

Spare Oom

Thank you!

simchona

You're welcome!

Spare Oom

02:16

I think I changed my wording so often, something got split.

simchona

I tend to just spell things wrong. And I overuse commas--Kit fixes that

Spare Oom

Would "if Jerry were to be bad...." be a better option for the first sentence?

Kit

I like "were Jerry to be bad" because I think it demonstrates the subjunctive best. But "if Jerry were to be bad" fits her pattern and is probably more common.

simchona

I agree with Kit. Both work--maybe you could show the If...then pattern as well as the pattern you have now?

Spare Oom

I think I will add that. She'll have 3 choices.

Cerberus

02:24

This answer is going to be good, I can feel it.

2

Spare Oom

Thanks for the support. :)

simchona

@SpareOom You could also add "If Jerry should be ...", which matches one of the options the OP asked about

aedia

@SpareOom I added a comment and I saw @Kit edited the question too. Do let me know if my comment sounds too judgmental. I don't mean to make it seem like I'm judging you :)

Spare Oom

I could. How many edits have I already made and how soon would it go to community edits?

Kit

Do you think the title is okay? She had asked about future tense, but I don't think that's really what she wants.

simchona

02:28

@Kit Looks fine to be. There was actually a question earlier asking for "past" when he really needed a different tense

Spare Oom

It is future tense, but subjunctive mood. Someone might want to add a subjunctive tag if there is one.

Kit

And I took out the "mental retardation" part, so I think sim's intelligence comment might come across weirdly.

@SpareOom Well, that's true.

simchona

@Kit Hmm?

Kit

> If a particular dialect feature is or isn't grammatical for you, it doesn't mean we can infer anything about your intelligence

Spare Oom

We so rarely use the subjunctive mood any more. The few examples on the second link are ingrained, but many people don't even know what the subjunctive mood is.

simchona

02:30

@Kit That was @aedia

Kit

Right. I knew that.

aedia

@SpareOom I think you have a bit to go. I think meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/11740/… applies to us, and it says it's 10x by original author or by 5 different people

Spare Oom

@aedia I'm going to vote your comment up and post why. :)

Kit

And I took out the "mental retardation" part, so I think aedia's intelligence comment might come across weirdly.

aedia

@Kit Yeah, I was kinda not sure if I should still say that, but I was glad you edited the retardation out of the question, in any case.

@SpareOom blushes

simchona

02:32

Possible gen ref:

Answer: merriam-webster.com/dictionary/mindshare

Question:

0

Q: What is a "mind-share leader"?

My limited understanding is that it applies to a company that comes first when people think about a particular topic. For instance could I say Microsoft is a mind-share leader for Operating Systems? The expression is on various websites, and my company just chose it as its slogan.

meaning expressions

aedia

Mind share

Mind share, or the development of consumer awareness or popularity, is one of the main objectives of advertising and promotion. When people think of examples of a product type or category, they usually think of a limited number of brand names. For example, a prospective buyer of a college education will have several thousand colleges to choose from. However, the evoked set, or set of schools considered, will probably be limited to about ten. Of these ten, the colleges that the buyer is most familiar with will receive the greatest attention. Marketers try to maximize the popularity of the...

simchona

@aedia Looks gen ref to me, then.

Spare Oom

Late folks. Thanks for the help. G2g.

aedia

Yup.

simchona

Bye!

aedia

02:35

Bye, @SpareOom!

Kit

I'd say gen ref unless the question were more focused on the Microsoft part.

simchona

@Kit I don't think it is. Not based on the title

Kit

And I'd link to something like Wiki that everyone has access to, @Sim.

simchona

Is MW not public?

Kit

@simchona No, it isn't, but if it were, then it wouldn't be gen ref.

@simchona I can't access the page you linked to.

aedia

02:37

@simchona It seems like it is sometimes, and then other times it pukes up a login thingamajigger.

simchona

@aedia Shoot. Finding another.

aedia

Blast, I had found the name for all those words, like whatchamacallit and thingamajig the other day, and now I can't remember what it was. Like a term of venery for them, almost.

metawhatchamacallit I swear it was here somewhere.

Placeholder name

Placeholder names are words that can refer to objects or people whose names are either temporarily forgotten, irrelevant, or unknown in the context in which it is being discussed. "Whatchamacallit" (for objects) and "Whatshisname" or "Whatshername" (for men and women, respectively) are defining examples. Linguistic role These placeholders typically function grammatically as nouns and can be used for people (e.g., John Doe, Jane Doe), objects (e.g., widget) or places (e.g., Timbuktu). They share a property with pronouns, because their referents must be supplied by context; but, unl...

Kit

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A: What is a "mind-share leader"?

Yes, you're correct in your understanding of the term. The Wikipedia entry for mind share may be of help. When people think of examples of a product type or category, they usually think of a limited number of brand names. For example, a prospective buyer of a college education will have sever...

Does this make sense to anyone?

simchona

@Kit Well, someone just quoted us. Hooray.

Also, no. It doesn't make sense.

Kit

@simchona What? Who? Where?

simchona

02:42

@Kit Wikipedia for mindshare. We own it since we commented it first.

I feel like writing an answer. A good one.

Kit

@simchona Well, a good answer obviates the general reference. If you've got an angle, go for it.

simchona

@Kit No, I've just got an answer that makes sense. In my head, at least.

Kit

@simchona I would like it if you think you could flesh out your answer to the double down question so we can make it canonical for these types of whosywhatsits. Compound verbs or whatever they are called.

@Cerberus I call on you again.

What's it called? Verb phrase? Multi-part verb?

simchona

I'll be happy to edit once we get a good group name for them

Kit

Verb phrase sounds right, but I'm not sure if it describes properly.

simchona

02:51

@Kit Idiomatic phrase?

Kit

@simchona No, it's more like the "daughters-in-law" and "attorneys general" type of thing.

Except that those are nouns.

simchona

I don't know if its a verb phrase, though

"double over", "double down", are idioms

Cerberus

@Kit Which phrase?

simchona

@Cerberus "double down" or "double over"

Working on:

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Q: What is the past tense of 'Double Down'?

Blackjack players can "double down" after receiving their initial two cards. What is the past tense of 'Double Down'?

american-english past-tense

Kit

@simchona ...or others like it.

We thought we'd make it nice and generic, so simchona can have a canonical answer.

Unless, of course, it's a dupe already.

Cerberus

02:55

Ahh. It think it might be a phrasal verb. Let me look it up,

simchona

Phrasal verb

A phrasal verb is a combination of a verb and a preposition, a verb and an adverb, or a verb with both an adverb and a preposition, any of which are part of the syntax of the sentence, and so are a complete semantic unit. Sentences may contain direct and indirect objects in addition to the phrasal verb. Phrasal verbs are particularly frequent in the English language. A phrasal verb often has a meaning which is different from the original verb. According to Tom McArthur: Alternative terms for phrasal verb are ‘compound verb’, ‘verb-adverb combination’, ‘verb-particle construction (VPC)’, A...

Looks like it

Kit

I feel better that "compound verb" is another term for "phrasal verb." Makes me think I might remember a little grammar after all.

Cerberus

This is a very confusing group of terms. I always forget them too. Phrasal verb, prepositional verb, particle verb...

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English Language & Usage: Multi-Layer…