English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

Mana

12:06 AM

Hmmmmmm.

simchona

Hmmmmmmmmm

Mana

Oop, I made a mistake.

That is what it was meant as.

simchona

All quiet on the western front

I was reading the chat transcript...trg says some pretty weird things

Cerberus

@simchona What, seriously!?

simchona

@Cerb Iknorite?

Spare Oom

12:23 AM

@simchona: I wish I hadn't been in mid posting of an answer to the 'hit point' question when you posted your comment. It would have saved me the effort of trying to answer. lol

simchona

At least he hasn't posted self pics again when he's trying to defend misogyny

@Spare Oom I read your answer, and it seemed on point. You can always edit your answer to include something from Joe's comment

Kit

0

Q: "You and I combined" versus "you and me combined"

Which one is correct, "you and I combined" or "you and me combined", as in: Bob and I combined had 91 points ? The "combined" confuses me.

correctness

simchona

7

Q: Which is correct, "you and I" or "you and me"?

When the phrase is used as an object, why so many native speakers are saying "you and I" instead of "you and me"? I'm not a native speaker but I thought "you and me" is correct. Not sure if this falls into the same category, but "Just between you and me" sounds more natural than "Just between you...

pronouns grammaticality object hypercorrection

I flagged as a dupe

Kit

@RegDwight Do we have "you and me"/"you and I" when used as the subject?

Or just the object?

@simchona It's not a dupe of that question, though.

simchona

Darn.

Kit

12:26 AM

@simchona Good instincts.

simchona

Well, better flagged and lost than never to have flagged at all

Spare Oom

@simchona I don't think I have that privilege yet.

simchona

@SpareOom You can edit your own posts--there should be an "edit" button under your answer

Kit

I think this might not be a dupe. @simchona, want to jump in and mention that "combined" is a, erm, what is that, a qualifier? If the sentence were re-written "Together, Bob and I had 91 points" it wouldn't be confusing at all.

I think he's reading as though "combined" is a verb, which it is not in this sentence.

simchona

@Kit Sure thing.

Kit

12:32 AM

@Cerberus would know that part of speech.

Spare Oom

@simchona I meant the flagging privilege.

simchona

@SpareOom The flag comment wasn't for you. But you can still flag things, I'm pretty sure.

Spare Oom

Were you talking about flagging as a duplicate?

simchona

@Spare Yes, but Kit mentions it's not really a dupe

@Kit I took a stab at the answer, but it could definitely use some help and/or comments from you.

0

A: "You and I combined" versus "you and me combined"

In the original sentence, "Bob and I combined had 91 points", combined isn't the main verb. You could rewrite the sentence, and still maintain meaning, by saying: Together, Bob and I had 91 points. The combined is serving more as a qualifier of the subject "Bob and I" rather than as a verb.

Spare Oom

I would have put the points combined, not Bob and I.

Kit

12:39 AM

@simchona Good, but you didn't actually answer the question. :)

(You might want to mention that "Bob and I" is correct.)

Spare Oom

What about those who aren't prescriptive? Would they argue that?

Kit

@SpareOom Bob and me had 91 points.

Maybe you could argue that.

Spare Oom

I hate it, but people say it.

Kit

I think the OP's confusion is because of the "combined," but you could write an answer defending the descriptivist view if you are so inclined.

Spare Oom

Nah, I'm not inclined.

Kit

12:42 AM

Personally, I use the "drop the other person" rule; Me had 91 points is not correct. But I know that this is not always accurate.

0

Q: Should I use "make" or "makes" in the following statement?

Should I use make or makes in the following statement: Please explain why your experience and qualifications makes you the best candidate for this position

grammatical-number

Spare Oom

I do the same, actually, and I tend toward prescriptivism.

Robusto

And the winner is ... "Bob and I combined had 91 points."

Kit

Now, this seems like it should be closed.

Robusto

And once again 3I's answer makes NO EFFIN' SENSE at all.

Spare Oom

I can't help you there.

@Robusto On which question?

Mana

12:46 AM

@Robusto Which one's 3I? Thursagen?

Ayup.

@Mana Yes.

Is Thursagen 3I?

@SpareOom Yes.

heh

> When Bob and I were combined, we had 91 points.

Robusto

12:47 AM

Why would you ever say "When Bob and I were combined we had 91 points"?

Mana

COMBINE!

Robusto

That is just barbarous.

Mana

transformation sequence

Spare Oom

@Robusto Is he supposed to be a native speaker?

lol

Robusto

@SpareOom — That's the rumor. But I have grave doubts.

simchona

12:50 AM

@Kit Answering the question? Pfffffft

@Kit I'll flag to close, but I can't vote

Kit

@simchona I know, that why I suggested you answer that question, instead of just answering it myself.

simchona

@Kit And that is why I like this room. It's like interactive feedback, instead of just up/downvotes

From earlier: I am a bully for possibly downvoting something.

-1

A: Is this third person?

Acting as the airplane is first person, and speaking to your grandson is second person.

Robusto

Mar 10 at 23:25, by RegDwight

From the archives of jollity in The Incomprehensible Room.

Kit

@simchona Got roughed up a bit, did you?

simchona

@Kit It's a theme this week.

Kit

1:03 AM

@simchona It's because you are coming into your power. People can sense it, and they fear you.

simchona

Reg took out some comments, like "accept this answer"

Kit

His comments, or yours?

Cerberus

@Kit I'd call combined a participle, which is not so much a part of speech as a word class.

simchona

His

Cerberus

A participle is both a verb and an adjective.

simchona

1:04 AM

@Kit Should I adopt an evil laugh?

Kit

@Cerberus @simchona See, I told you Cerberus would know. Now you can edit your answer again.

@simchona Not yet. Save that for when you actually get your close vote.

simchona

@Kit @Cerberus Thank you--will you look over my answer when I've edited? We were waiting for your expertise

Robusto

And ... goodnight all.

Kit

@Robusto Night!

Mana

NOOOOO

Cerberus

1:05 AM

Eh OK, sure!

ROBUSTOOOOOO

Night

Night Rob!

@Cerberus So how would you describe "together"?

Maybe I should just ctfd.

@Mana I think you mean @ROBUSTOOOOO!

Cerberus

Ehh word class = adverb.

user19161

1:06 AM

@Kit You learnt from me.

Mana

They don't ping him like I ping you @Kit

Kit

giggle

simchona

1

Q: "You and I combined" versus "you and me combined"

Which is correct, "you and I combined" or "you and me combined"? as in: Bob and I combined had 91 points The "combined" confuses me.

correctness

@Cerberus I edited

Cerberus

@simchona Looks fine!

Kit

@simchona Would you be offended if I pruned your commas?

simchona

1:08 AM

@Cerberus Thank you. I didn't want to spread misinformation.

@Kit Feel free. No offense taken

Kit

@simchona Phew. Sorry, I just have this thing about commas.

It's a quirk.

I'm quirky about commas.

Spare Oom

bye @Robusto

simchona

Are you also kookoo for Cocoa Puffs?

user19161

Commas are very complicated. There are many different schools of thought.

Kit

@JasperLoy I know. That's why I asked first.

simchona

1:12 AM

I'm happy to let reputable users change things. I probably also don't read my answers as well as I should.

user19161

@Kit But they are not as complicated or pretty as you.

Kit

@JasperLoy That would have been witty had you said "Commas are pretty complicated." Instead, I will simply say "I'm married."

simchona

A user wanted to add Matt Ellen on Facebook earlier in the chat

This is just a hotbed of connections and budding relationships

user19161

@Kit I'm just joking with you in this case Kit.

Kit

Ah yes. Miss.

simchona

1:15 AM

Mhm.

Kit

She pops in from time to time and asks weird things in very broken English.

simchona

At least she doesn't put it on EL&U?

user19161

@simchona I see you noticed. Well, don't make too many assumptions...

Kit

@simchona Yes, that is a good thing.

Cerberus

@simchona A user? Of what?

user19161

1:17 AM

@Cerberus Of SE?

simchona

A user of SE

user19161

@simchona I beat you to it!

Darnit @Jasper

Oh. Anyone I know?

Miss?

1:18 AM

Ah, yes.

user19161

@simchona The practice here is to say jinx!

Cerberus

I think her former name was Boob. Or was that someone else?

Kit

@Cerberus That was someone else. Explorer now.

user19161

@Kit I remember Boob. He had this very sexy picture once.

simchona

It was a guy named Boob?

Cerberus

1:20 AM

Ah.

Kit

Yes, I think Reg said he was a transvestite nurse or something.

Cerberus

I assumed it as a girl.

user19161

@simchona You never know the sex here really.

Cerberus

@Kit That is Robusto.

Kit

Of course, Reg might have been pulling my chain.

@Cerberus Damn. I can't keep anything straight.

Cerberus

1:21 AM

Robusto is generally referred to as a nurse around here.

Kit

Ha ha ha Unintended pun.

Cerberus

@Kit Straight isn't required.

Hehe.

Spare Oom

I find it hard to imagine anyone choosing the name Boob. I think it was an alien.

simchona

I will say I'm female in both gender and sex. Just clearing a llittle of the air

Kit

@Cerberus I hope not, or I'm screwed.

Cerberus

1:22 AM

Not at all.

user19161

@simchona I believe you. You are one of the more serious ones here.

simchona

I'm just bad at lying about that

user19161

Sex is distinct from gender. Similarly, race is distinct from ethnicity.

simchona

@Jasper I'm pretty big on race/ethnicity activism. That's why I specified both gender and sex

Kit

@simchona I will say I'm female in both gender and sex, but not always in practice.

;-)

user19161

1:24 AM

Gender can change, but sex can change too, if you go for an operation.

user19161

@Kit You are being very honest today.

Kit

0

Q: Is there a consensus on how many English words are in the average adult's vocabulary?

This question may be a little off-topic for this community, but I thought I'd ask it here. If it's deemed too far off course I'll happily delete it. Is there any consensus as to how many words are in the average adult's vocabulary? Over the years I've come across various factoids and blurbs onli...

vocabulary

Why is this still open?

user19161

I will say I am male in sex and gender to clear the air even more.

Kit

And why did a 10K+ user answer it?

@JasperLoy Gender is not likely to change, though. Sex changes exist because of the stability of gender identification.

simchona

@Kit because that was 3I

user19161

1:27 AM

@Kit But sexual orientation can change over a person's lifetime.

Kit

@simchona I know.

@JasperLoy I've never heard that before.

simchona

Sexual orientation isn't sex or gender, is it?

Kit

@simchona Nope.

user19161

@simchona Not quite, but I'm not an expert in this.

FallenAngelEyes

@simchona It is not, which is why there is sometimes contention over the T in LGBT being included.

randomly pops in

Mana

1:28 AM

Oh hullo!

Kit

Hi @Fallen!

simchona

@FallenAngel Hi!

user19161

@FallenAngelEyes You have been very quiet!

FallenAngelEyes

I saw a sex/gender conversation going on in my "Other rooms you're in" feed thing so it got my attention

@JasperLoy I was gone yesterday to a music festival

Where my stuff got stolen

I've been kind of grumpy and asocial since

Kit

@FallenAngelEyes Bucket of suck!

user19161

1:29 AM

@FallenAngelEyes The thieves in Netherlands and China are supposedly very skilful.

Cerberus

In Utrecht? Stolen? Oh, dear.

FallenAngelEyes

@Kit I wholeheartedly agree.

Yeah, my camera was taken from my pocket during the concert. It had my coatcheck # in it.

user19161

@Mana You never say that to me. :(

Cerberus

How did it happen? Pickpockets?

FallenAngelEyes

I went to the coatcheck and whomever took it also turned in my coatcheck # and claimed my stuff.

Cerberus

1:30 AM

Man that sucks so much.

FallenAngelEyes

Apparently.

Cerberus

No way!!

Wow.

Mana

@Jasper It's because I hate you.

FallenAngelEyes

Yeah. -_-

Cerberus

The bastard.

FallenAngelEyes

1:31 AM

I broke down and started crying at the coatcheck.

Mana

(doesn't actually hate you)

simchona

@Fallen Awww. I'm sorry

Cerberus

Did you have a bag there too?

FallenAngelEyes

They took my camera, mobile phone, sunglasses, Dresden Files book, all the band merch I'd purchased that day, as well as my residency card and my debit card.

Yep.

Cerberus

Oh, man.

That is horrible.

simchona

1:32 AM

Did you report the theft?

Spare Oom

Wow! Terrible!

user19161

@FallenAngelEyes Can you claim any insurance?

FallenAngelEyes

@JasperLoy Our insurance doesn't cover that really

Cerberus

Try not to think about it. Are that stuff will be replaced (but what is a Dresden Files book?), and in a few weeks you will be over it.

Spare Oom

Is all that difficult to replace as well?

FallenAngelEyes

1:33 AM

We're waiting for the festival people to call us back if they found anything, if not, we'll report it.

Cerberus

@FallenAngelEyes Are you completely sure? No travel insurance that you forgot to cancel?

FallenAngelEyes

already called the bank to have them block the card

Spare Oom

My home was broken into once and my purse and stuff was taken.

FallenAngelEyes

and the sim card in my phone was canceled

@Cerberus Nay :/

Cerberus

Meh.

FallenAngelEyes

1:33 AM

@Cerberus Dresden Files is a book series, urban fantasy. :)

Cerberus

Ah OK.

Spare Oom

@FallenAngelEyes You reported it to the police, right?

Cerberus

Well, it sucks.

user19161

Life sucks.

FallenAngelEyes

Then I found out a bunch of stuff is going unwell for my family tonight, and then we discovered that our bathroom sink has a crack and needs to be replaced.

Cerberus

1:34 AM

Aaarg.

Spare Oom

@JasperLoy Sure can.

user19161

Bad things come together.

user19161

Good ones too.

Cerberus

Take a break, if you can. Turn in sick and spend a day at home with your boyfriend. Or doesn't that work for you?

user19161

Have a Kit Kat.

FallenAngelEyes

1:35 AM

@Spare waiting to see if there was anything found by the festival authorities first

Spare Oom

yeah, I read that late.

FallenAngelEyes

Going to bed soon so the day can be over and I can't receive any more crap news.

Spare Oom

You said you cancelled the sim card on the phone?

FallenAngelEyes

Aye. It was just a prepaid thing, only 5 euro or so left on it.

Spare Oom

Can you undo that in case it's helpful to the police if the thief uses the phone?

FallenAngelEyes

1:36 AM

But we wanted to make sure they couldn't load it up again with any connection to our cards.

Kit

@JasperLoy I am too far away to be of use.

FallenAngelEyes

I'm unsure. We tried calling it and it said it was unavailable. When they steal phones here, they usually chuck the card and set the phone on Marktplaats (a sort of Dutch ebay) to sell.

Spare Oom

Yeah, I did the same thing, but the police told me they might have been able to use that to catch the thief.

FallenAngelEyes

Ah, hum. :(

Spare Oom

It'll be ok.

FallenAngelEyes

1:38 AM

Anywho, sorry to hijack the conversation.

ChaosGamer

Did you guys heard about agreement on budget between Republicans and Obama?

Spare Oom

No, what was it?

user19161

@FallenAngelEyes But that's what makes this room interesting.

Kit

@FallenAngelEyes ((hugs)) and kisses

Cerberus

@FallenAngelEyes You are in my atheist prayers!

4

FallenAngelEyes

1:39 AM

Haha, thanks all.

Spare Oom

@FallenAngelEyes Nobody can blame you for hijacking with that on your mind!

:)

Cerberus

You could play a violent computer game to vent your anger.

@ChaosGamer Is there an agreement?

FallenAngelEyes

I was pondering it, but I should sleep soon and those tend to get one riled up before sleep.

user19161

@Cerberus Sometimes you need to think about it, but not too much. Sometimes intentionally suppressing pain makes it worse.

ChaosGamer

well, by the news, Obama decided to try to lower the debt. He said that with current situation, it would take time. @Ce Yes they did agree.

FallenAngelEyes

1:40 AM

@Cerberus Yeah, a friend of mine asked me if he could do anything, and I said "Prove to me there's an omniscient deity so I can punch it in the face."

Cerberus

@FallenAngelEyes That is true. Then don't.

@JasperLoy That may happen, depends on circumstances... but suppressing it for a short while should be fine. And this isn't such a serious trauma any way (no offence).

FallenAngelEyes

Though it probably wouldn't be a good idea, seeing as if I were to attempt to punch an omniscient deity in the face, they would know it was coming and duck anyway. :(

Cerberus

@FallenAngelEyes It might happily receive the blow and turn the other cheek!

FallenAngelEyes

@Cerberus None taken, all the stuff is replaceable and such. I'm trying to look at this from a zen point of view.

Kit

@FallenAngelEyes A nice omniscient deity would take the hit, just to make you feel better.

Cerberus

1:41 AM

Jinx!

FallenAngelEyes

I'm just sad because I got to meet one of the bands I like and get pics with them and autographs and those are all gone too. :(

Kit

FallenAngelEyes

Ha, one could hope.

user19161

@FallenAngelEyes Well, Justin Bieber is right here!

Spare Oom

Maybe chocolate would help?

FallenAngelEyes

1:42 AM

@JasperLoy .......>_>

Cerberus

@FallenAngelEyes That sucks, but... it's just things. It is the memory that counts. Just a bunch of molecules.

Kit

@FallenAngelEyes Maybe you could tell the band, and they would do something nice for you.

user19161

@SpareOom Not any kind. Must be Kit Kat.

Kit

@JasperLoy I told you, I'm too far away to help.

FallenAngelEyes

@Kit I pondered that, but I don't want to seem like someone who is just telling a sob story to try to get free merch.

I was at least able to support them with my money, so I'm glad enough for that.

Spare Oom

1:43 AM

@JasperLoy But they're not dark chocolate!

user19161

@SpareOom I like dark chocolate too. What does spare oom mean?

Kit

@FallenAngelEyes No, but you could say it nicely like "I got pictures with you, but my camera got stolen, so can I get pictures with you again? In the hot tub in your private beach house next weekend?"

FallenAngelEyes

@Kit Hahaha, that'd be awesome.

Kit

You know, so they know you don't care about getting something for free.

user19161

@Kit That sounds naughty!

FallenAngelEyes

1:45 AM

@JasperLoy Well, the saying goes, either be good or have fun.

Kit

@JasperLoy You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

Spare Oom

List of places in The Chronicles of Narnia

This is a list of fictional places in the Narnia universe that appear in the popular series of fantasy children's books by C. S. Lewis collectively known as The Chronicles of Narnia. A * Alambil: is one of two celestial bodies (the other of which is Tarva), whose meeting in the night sky is shown to Caspian X shortly before he flees the castle of King Miraz. The book, Prince Caspian, offers two apparently contradictory descriptions of the nature of these celestial bodies, firstly they are described as being planets, then later they are described as being stars. The two heavenly bodies...

ChaosGamer

Does anybody care about politics these days?

Kit

@ChaosGamer No.

Spare Oom

Not much, sorry.

ChaosGamer

1:46 AM

dang...

Kit

Sorry.

ChaosGamer

im out. ttyl

Cerberus

@ChaosGamer I do!

Very much so.

ChaosGamer

its ok.

user19161

I've given up on politics. This world will be full of shit until I take over.

2

simchona

1:47 AM

@chaosGamer Maybe people just aren't in the mood to do so right now

ChaosGamer

@JasperLoy lol

simchona

@Jasper Thus the Justin Bieber avatar?

Cerberus

@ChaosGamer I already asked you whether you meant that there was an agreement.

ChaosGamer

@simchona could be

@Cerberus yes there was.

gotta go.

Cerberus

Oh!

Bye!

OK.

user19161

1:48 AM

@simchona Well, actually I was thinking about it in the usual sense.

Spare Oom

@JasperLoy My dad used to say, "when I become dictator..."

user19161

@ChaosGamer Enjoy kimchi!

Spare Oom

He would have done a good job.

Kit

1

Q: Is ‘toasty-roasted’ well-received English?

I found the word, ‘toasty-roasted’ in the article of the Art section of Time Magazine reporting the reputation of the recently released movie ‘Cowboys & Aliens’ under the title, ‘Box Office: Why Cowboys & Aliens Got Smurfed. The corresponding lines read: “A farrago of live action and ...

words

My God, I love this man.

Cerberus

nytimes.com/2011/08/01/us/politics/01FISCAL.html?_r=1&hp

Good news.

simchona

1:50 AM

@Kit His questions are always well backed up by text. Never need to ask for context with him

Kit

@Cerberus Are you surprised?

simchona

So, who wants to talk politics.

user19161

@simchona His questions are almost all from NYT.

user19161

@simchona Shoot.

simchona

@Jasper Even better. A well read man, with lots of reputable context.

Kit

1:51 AM

@JasperLoy He composes his questions so well, you can't tell he's not a native speaker.

user19161

@simchona He is certainly well-read, being in his 70s.

Cerberus

@Kit Not entirely. But there was still a chance it would have fallen through.

Kit

I rarely edit his questions for grammar or punctuation mistakes or misspellings.

FallenAngelEyes

I have never heard that phrase, huh.

simchona

I want to start using it in speech, now

user19161

1:51 AM

@Kit He has assimilated the language by osmosis from NYT.

Kit

@Cerberus Not a chance. Not with global economic collapse on the horizon.

Cerberus

@Kit Yes, Yoichi is one of this website's favourite askers.

user19161

@Cerberus Partly because his name is very amusing.

Kit

I should make a study of his thoughtfulness.

Spare Oom

@Kit It's a new phrase to me too.

FallenAngelEyes

1:53 AM

@Cerberus I can see why. I'm skimming through his questions, and he's very thorough.

simchona

I just read one of his questions about whether there's an English equivalent for a Japanese interjection made when old people sit down

Cerberus

@Kit From what I understood, this "default" wouldn't really be a default: the government would just stop paying certain domestic expenditures, such as salaries for civil servants. Still horrible, but China would continue to receive its interest on the bonds.

user19161

@FallenAngelEyes Typical Japanese thoroughness.

Kit

@simchona Ah yes, that's very popular.

FallenAngelEyes

He cites the example, offers proof of attempted self-answering, clearly asks for what he wants.

user19161

1:54 AM

I love sashimi but hate kimchi.

simchona

@Kit He also edits his own questions for punctuation, spelling, etc

Cerberus

We were all sympathy when the tsunamis struck near where his family lived. Or perhaps it wasn't that near.

FallenAngelEyes

...oh wow, 2 questions asking what Charlie Sheen meant XD

Kit

@Cerberus I think not issuing paychecks to civil servants would probably not be in the government's best interest.

Mana

@FallenAngelEyes Bi-winning is still the best play on words ever. True genius.

Kit

1:55 AM

In this case, "it's not really default" = "political suicide."

user19161

@Cerberus Where I live, we will never get tsunamis or earthquakes. Sheltered by surrounding countries.

user19161

My country has the highest paid politicians if you realise.

Cerberus

@Kit Perhaps I did not remember correctly which exact expenditure would suffer. Newspapers here had a complex chart, with several posts in the red. But interest would still be paid.

Kit

@JasperLoy Crap. Now I have to look at a map. I thought Singapore had coastline.

Cerberus

@JasperLoy No effect from the Aceh earthquake?

FallenAngelEyes

1:57 AM

"By the way, can I use the word, ‘bitchin’, quite casually in day-to-day conversation, and also in writing, if it’s not formal?" The fact that this is an honest-to-goodness straightforward question is... amazing.

user19161

@Kit Water yes, but not water that will lead to tsunami.

Kit

@Cerberus I know what you mean. We wouldn't actually have defaulted, because we would have stopped buying groceries in order to pay the credit card bills.

user19161

@Cerberus At most small tremors felt.

Cerberus

@Kit Yeah, something like that. So no dropped rating, no higher interest rates.

@JasperLoy Oh, I am glad.

Kit

@Cerberus But it would have the same effect: economic disaster.

user19161

1:58 AM

@Cerberus There was once I felt my room shaking. I stay on the 16th floor. The blinds shook too. I thought I had become even more crazy, but realised it was just the tremors.

Cerberus

@Kit Perhaps so...

@JasperLoy And no flooding?

Transcript for

English Language & Usage: Multi-Layer…