English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room - 2011-07-01 (page 2 of 3)

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2:24 PM

1

Q: Word for trade name that has become synonymous with the proper term for an item?

As the title of this question indicates, I was wondering if there is a specific term that means a trademarked product name that has become synonymous with the 'proper' name of an item. For example: the word perspex, which is used to describe PMMA (polymethyl methacrylate), even if it is not ma...

single-word-requests

Dupe.

4

Q: What is a word/phrase for using a term for a popular special case instead of a generic term?

Some people use a term for a popular special case in place of a generic term. (Often this popular special case is a particular product in that category.) I think that this is a common phenomenon. Is there any word/phrase for it? For example, “Coke” officially refers to a Coca-Cola (I think), ...

single-word-requests

@RegDwight voted

@Reg: this true?

Thanks.

@Vitaly Some of it, to a certain degree, yes. (But the way it's presented makes it sound totally exaggerated and oversimplified. The exact same problems exist everywhere.) The rest is complete, utter rubbish, or purely anecdotal.

So the author had a problem with his phone contract, big deal.

But he extrapolates that every single German always has the exact same problems.

OK thx.

The key is this: "И ведь ни о чем таком за пределами Германии не слышно."

Well, guess why.

2:33 PM

Our viscacha is back! How was your trip, @RegDwight? Or did we already discuss that in depth?

Dunno about you. Moi, je haven't.

so how was your trip?

Um, I'm trying to think of anything more original than just "nice"... but well, it was nice.

@aedia I was just thinking about you!

what was the actual occasion for heading to Paris?

2:35 PM

Jun 27 at 12:14, by RegDwight

We're just taking my mother-in-law places.

ah, cool

Oh, and @Vitaly: "Последнее время что-то зачастили драки в общественном транспорте. Молодые отморозки нападают на кого-то, забивают почти насмерть (или не почти), потом убегают. Полиция, если их поймает, то потом отпускает, мол, трудное детство. Как-то совсем кисло." <- Recency illusion, not backed up by any facts.

@Kit I hope pleasant thoughts ;)

@RegDwight So you say. But I know that you were testing super-secret technology.

@aedia Always. It's taco salad day, and I was thinking "No one can be unhappy on taco salad day!"

@Kit in france? no one has ever tested any technology in france

2:37 PM

@JSBangs Exactly.

Mr. Disappointment

@Kit BUT, it's Friday, and that's Gold Top Milk day, and I haven't had my dosage. :(

@Kit Mmm. It's early an 4th of July potluck here. I brought multicolored fruit.

no early celebrations here, but i'm looking forward to the feast on Monday

@aedia Strawberries, blueberries, and cauliflower?

@MrDisappointment Is that something extremely tasty?

@Kit I really did almost buy cauliflower. I was pretty tired at the store. Then I gave up and got pineapple and some yogurt dressing.

2:41 PM

@aedia good call on the yogurt

@aedia Egg whites work well too.

☺

@Kit Ew, but those still don't go with fruit any better than cauliflower... do they?

Or if you suck all of the juice out of a watermelon, it's kind of whitish.

@aedia Not really.

Cool Whip. Angel food cake.

@Kit Now I want deviled eggs, though.

This was my traditional birthday cake.

2:43 PM

@Kit I hate Cool Whip. Authentic whipped cream ftw.

With the fruit on top in stripes.

I prefer to whip my own cream too.

@Kit dirty!

And I giggle when I buy "Heavy Whipping Cream" at the grocery store.

Mr. Disappointment

@Kit Mhhmmmm: gold-top.co.uk

@Kit Mmm, we always had strawberries on angel food with homemade whipped cream at Easter dinner. You're a summer child?

2:44 PM

@Vitaly: It reminds me of my grandma who could not leave the house for the last ten years of her life, so all she did was watch TV all day. And so she just wouldn't let me go out after 5p.m. on the grounds of all those people she heard got killed and robbed and kidnapped and whatnot. And I was like, jeez, talk about perception bias; even if dozens of people in this city get in trouble this very second, millions of people do not.

@Kit groans

@JSBangs You're right. I should go home immediately and self-flagellate.

@RegDwight — Haha.

@aedia Tomorrow.

@Kit Oh! Happy early bday!

2:45 PM

@aedia Shh! Thanks.

@RegDwight That reminds me of "Even if she's one in a million, that means there's three or four thousand out there just like her." — David Sim

Tangentially, of course.

@Vitaly So those teenagers beating up elderly folks in Germany... I can remember like exactly three cases in the last two years or so, which of course got blown out of proportion by the mass media. Only one person died, IIRC; the attackers got caught and prosecuted (extremely quickly, I might add) in all cases; and it was in Berlin and Munich, two huge cities where you just can't expect shit not to happen from time to time.

@Kit A couple of my childhood friends and I are all winter kids, and for a few years we got sick of the snow and switched to unbirthday parties with friends in the summer. That was nice.

@RegDwight right, but try explaining that to your average nervous parent

note to self: don't be a nervous parent

Alain Pannetier

@JSBangs "no one has ever tested any technology in france". Don't tell me you wanted ITER to be buried in Minnesota? Physicists might be vampires but they know where the nice places are...

@aedia We had half-birthday parties in 4th grade, for the summer kids who never got to have school parties.

2:49 PM

@RegDwight — On the other hand, people are generally prone to optimism bias.

OK, so what's "IIRC" and "ftw"? I missed those.

@JSBangs Yeah, don't get me started about parents... There are less and less cases of child abuse or kidnapping every single month, and the numbers have been dropping for decades. And yet, every single time a child is getting kidnapped or abused, everyone demands stricter laws.

fewer and fewer cough

Which, coincidentally, reveals another problem with people's thinking.

@Kit i actually don't object to his usage.

Mr. Disappointment

2:51 PM

4

Q: Word for a person who is "in charge"?

When you contact organization units like a department, an agency, etc., there is usually a main person whom you should contact. He/she is also the main responsible person for critical problems. Should we call him/her person in charge? Is there a simple word for that? And, is following right? ...

single-word-requests

THE BOSS!

Jun 20 at 19:53, by RegDwight

Every single time you see me using either of these words, you can be 101% sure that whichever it is, I'm using it on purpose.

@JSBangs I didn't ask if you objected.

We've been there before, Kit.

@MrDisappointment ME!

@Kit i'm just giving the pineapples permission to ignore you

2:52 PM

@RegDwight @JSBangs I know. I was just clearing my throat.

Mr. Disappointment

@Kit Hah ...In contrast, I point and yell 'THEM!'

@Kit en.wiktionary.org/wiki/for_the_win

@JSBangs Thank you, but I have pointed Kit to that answer of nohat's already.

@Kit en.wiktionary.org/wiki/IIRC

@aedia Thanks. Twice.

@RegDwight And I politely disagree with it.

2:53 PM

Anyhows. The problem is not how strict a law is; the question is, how likely it is to get enforced.

So what law are you talking about? Not beating up old people?

So if I'm all into stealing stuff or raping people or whatever, it doesn't really matter whether the punishment is 12 years or 15. All that matters is how likely am I to get caught.

@RegDwight along with the problem of how difficult it is to ensure enforcement

I was surprised they were both in Wiktionary. I can never recall exactly what IIRC means so I don't say it. I get it mixed up with IMHO.

@RegDwight Exactly. The level of punishment for the crime is not a deterrent.

2:55 PM

But so many people have the illusion that it is!

Criminals don't commit crimes believing they will get caught.

@RegDwight the punishment does matter at the margin. the relevant calculation is P(getting caught) * Cost(getting caught)

@RegDwight They should read Foucault.

I was just trying to verbalise that. What @JSBangs said.

but if P(getting caught) is low, then raising the cost matters very little

2:56 PM

Yeah, that's what I'm getting at.

Also, humans are not (generally) genuine Bayesian agents, so it's highly unlikely they run that calculation through their minds.

Basically we're all on the same page here, but only the evangelical linguist is eloquent enough.

Interesting factoid about Foucault: I had sexual relations in his room one time.

5

Is there a room in which you have not?

3

And I suspect that there is a x > 1 quotient for Cost(getting caught) in that formula because of the way human psychology works.

2:57 PM

Jun 20 at 19:07, by Kit

Freyja, I leave for lunch and a quickie with my husband, and when I return, I am greeted with shit burgers. What is wrong with this place?

@RegDwight I'm sure there is.

@RegDwight can i get that on a plaque here?

@JSBangs Only at one trillion reps!

@Kit's comment desperately needs to be starred to live on in infamy

@JSBangs What? Huh? What's infamous?

@RegDwight I fail to understand the relevance of this quotation in this context.

3:00 PM

Sorry, I didn't know quotations were supposed to be relevant.

I miss so many memos these days.

@RegDwight Touché.

I used to miss less memos.

@Kit i think Reg is trying to illustrate something called "oversharing" or TMI

grinding teeth

plus, that wasn't really a factoid about Foucault now, was it?

3:01 PM

@JSBangs But I wasn't the one who brought up shit burgers.

@Kit well at least you have that to fall back on

@JSBangs Sure it was.

@Kit Of course you would say that.

Mr. Disappointment

More of a mythoid.

I am tearing up with laughter. Fridays are so fun.

3:02 PM

@Kit "Interesting facts about Foucault: once lived in a house where Kit would later have sex!"

Oh, is it Friday already?

Cos I'm in Iceland, and it's hard to tell...

Mr. Disappointment

I thought it hadn't been Friday in Iceland for ages?

Well, not on MSO.

@JSBangs Well, he was there. Taking pictures.

On MSO, Fridays in Iceland have been merged into fun. And fun has been subsequently blacklisted. True story.

3:05 PM

Ok. Time for lunch. AFK. Resume normalcy in 5, 4, 3, 2, 1...

Mr. Disappointment

And it all started off so well.

Wait, when? Who? You sure?

Mr. Disappointment

Normality?

Normality doesn't just "start off".

You need an intelligent designer.

And this room is lacking in that department.

hey, @Kit's gone! everyone, start acting normal!

3:11 PM

@JSBangs Fooled you. (My lunch partner's stalling.)

@MrDisappointment What's wrong with normalcy?

@Kit "lunch partner". so that's what you're calling them these days

Lunches with benefits.

Wait a second, how the hell did the Community user get to 3 reps?

english.stackexchange.com/users/-1/community

Is it correct to say x + y? Where do x and y come from? And in that last sentence, are x and y already summed? Oops, looks like I did it again.

You played with my heart? Got lost in the game?

@RegDwight — Wait ... you have a heart?

3:23 PM

@Robusto No, obviously, since you are playing with it.

I can't have my heart and use it, too.

It seems to be made of little plastic blocks with bumps on them.

Yes!

That's mine.

Well, I took it apart and can't get it back together.

Build a car.

Or a house.

much better than a heart anyway

3:24 PM

Better yet, build a robot that will re-build itself into a car.

user image

Like this?

Where are the bumps?

Eh? I hid them with cloth.

If that is SNOT, color me impressed.

Oh. I see.

user image

I fixed it.

By the way, you can wear that on your sleeve if you have LEGO™ sleeves.

As I'm sure you must.

3:30 PM

user image

Whoa! We just lost @Dori. For like the first time since January.

i need liquor. does anybody have some liquor handy?

rum would be good

@RegDwight — Who says romance is dead?

@JSBangs — I have liquor handy. Want me to upload some?

@Robusto yes plz

user image

No problem.

3:32 PM

sweet

Meh. Sweet liquor... Bah!

Sugar is for silly nannies.

And for our non-native speakers:

user image

Project overkill.

i didn't ask for... whatever that is. i asked for rum. rum isn't sweet

We herd u liek fruit...

3:33 PM

anyway, i just remembered that i have some vodka in the fridge here IRL

Now we're talking!

Except your vodka is probably crap...

@JSBangs — That's not for you. You're a native speaker.

@RegDwight i got a relatively upscale brand. but it's still american, and i have no idea what sort of vodka you're used to

It's not about being "used to".

There are quite objective criteria.

@JSBangs — @RegDwight doesn't drink any vodka that doesn't have fusel oils in it.

Fusel alcohols, also sometimes called fusel oils, or potato oil in Europe, are higher-order alcohols (that is, alcohols with more than two carbon atoms) formed by fermentation and present in cider, mead, beer, wine, and spirits to varying degrees. The term fusel is German for "bad liquor". Composition and taste The compounds involved are chiefly: * 1-propanol * 2-propanol * butanol (various isomers) * amyl alcohol * furfural (not an alcohol) Excessive concentrations of these fractions may cause off flavours, sometimes described as "spicy", "hot", or "solvent-like". Some beverages, such...

3:35 PM

Except that it's the other way round.

Oils fusel?

Fusel alcohol is why beer makes your head hurt.

@RegDwight — My point exactly.

@RegDwight please enlighten me. i'm legitimately curious

I don't have enough active vocabulary in English to speak about it with any confidence. Let me just say that I myself have tried actual vodka exactly once. It was a Belorussian brand that I came across by total accident and that probably no longer exists.

Remember that vodka basically means "little water".

And that's exactly what it tasted like.

3:38 PM

@RegDwight you mean it tasted like water? how could that possibly be a good thing?

It tasted like water, it smelled like water, there were exactly zero side effects except for getting drunk.

@RegDwight — You could taste the "little"?

Most vodka you get in the States and Europe alike tastes like petroleum, smells like petroleum, and makes you want to die the next day.

i'm not sure that i'd actually like that. i kind of like the burning in the throat that vodka gives

Some Russian brands are pretty good, but they still don't taste anything like water, and most importantly, as soon as a brand gets popular, it gets copied, so you never know what you actually get.

Arbatskaya and Putinka used to be good.

3:42 PM

in any case, my vodka actually smells like lemons, since i'm in the middle of making limoncello

doesn't alcohol itself (the hydroxyl compound) have a distinctive taste and smell?

Ctoly is the "gold standard" for vodka in the states. How does it compare to really good vodkas?

@Vitaly I have no idea, despite taking chemistry in high school. I'm just reporting from experience.

@Robusto Never tried that one.

I find it difficult to believe unless it's another case of humans having different taste genes

The closest you get to Russian vodka in Germany is Moskovskaya.

3:43 PM

@Vitaly — I've tasted almost-pure ethanol, and it definitely has a taste.

I have recently seen a documentary about the fact that some humans can smell some substances and some humans cannot, due to genetic differences

The rest is some made-up crap such as Pushkinskaya, Vodka Gorbachov, Vodka Yeltsin, etc. Plus that omni-present Smirnoff and Absolut crap.

@Vitaly in high school biology taste, they gave us all little strips of paper that had a taste that only about 1/2 of the class could sense

well for me pure hydroxyl compounds such as pure ethanol definitely have a taste

Oh, and Russky Razmer wasn't that bad, either.

But again, it got copied.

The best Russian vodka is actually produced in Beslan. Yes, that Beslan.

3:46 PM

@Vitaly — This is true.

Mr. Disappointment

@Kit Nothing in particular, it's just the word I fell back on when reading that 'version'.

Who the hell is 3I? And why do I keep noticing the name?

May 11 at 11:37, by Third Idiot

I'm part of a trio called the Three Idiots. When we do anything, there's a crazy element.

Mr. Disappointment

So, H&B?

Yeah. Seems like he kept people entertained in the last three days. I had to do a lot of catching up.

Mr. Disappointment

Was 3I a transitional name?

3:52 PM

Well, it's not a crime to change your nick.

I could change your nick. :-P

And you could change mine on Astrology.

I mean.

Astronomy.

Mr. Disappointment

...

Jun 8 at 11:51, by RegDwight

Um, why did I just misspell astronomy as astrology?

Mr. Disappointment

I didn't say burn him on a cross for doing so, though.

I don't see anyone burning.

Mr. Disappointment

I don't see anyone being captured by pirates, but apparently it happens all the time.

3:54 PM

Sounds like my grandma once again.

Mr. Disappointment

And as for your 'typo' 'problem', maybe it is to do with your belief system?

"I believe in the existence of angels."

Mr. Disappointment

Ah, spoken like a true... hold on, what?

Yeah, I was going to ask, do you know which song that quote is from, only to realize that I don't remember it myself. So. Um. Do you know which song that quote is from?

Mr. Disappointment

A note scribbled in some Gideon's bible, some place?

3:57 PM

Nah, it was like Black Sabbath, or Skid Row, or Slayer...

Mr. Disappointment

If not, you'll be sure to find some pop song with that in the lyrics.

Haha. Yeah right, pop.

Mr. Disappointment

Does bring a song to mind though...

@RegDwight Nick Cave and the Bad Seeds? But it's "I don't believe in the existence of angels."

Hm...

I'll try to remember while on the bus.

Gotta run.

TTYL!

4:02 PM

There's also an ABBA song with "I believe in angels."

Mr. Disappointment

Well, that's what Google seems to think ...catch you later @Reg

@Vitaly no one was posting baby pictures. there was no need to break out the arthropods

Mr. Disappointment

@Vitaly Oh, c'mon!

4:05 PM

@JSBangs — why do you keep thinking about baby pictures when presented with something arthropod-related? no, i just found that video immensely entertaining; i watched it with interest

Mr. Disappointment

There's the bell... TTYL guys.

@Vitaly that was... ew. i turned it off after about 15 s

@JSBangs — You are weird.

> It is known to eat <…> bats, catching them in midflight

@JSB I'd like to point out that lack of starred comments during my absence.

I may be outrageous, but at least I'm also entertaining.

I hope.

i was actually about to say that i hope @Kit gets back soon. how was "lunch"?

4:11 PM

As the French would say, "The lunch, she was very tasty."

And I'm flattered that you missed me.

lunch is feminine in french?

Hmm. Maybe not. It doesn't change my phrasing.

<toothy grin>

4:38 PM

Yeah, baby! Just figured out a nice loop to whack fifty or so lines of code into submission. And then there were five.

Mr. Disappointment

4:51 PM

Pah. Minify it. Remove carriage-returns and then there is one.

@MrDisappointment I could take out the comments, but it's a loop. Still gotta have three lines.

Aw, frig it. snip, snip, snip Done. One line.

Starts with F and ends in U!

Mr. Disappointment

Go for it. Comments in code are for wimps. Fact.

Language?

VB.Net

Mr. Disappointment

Argh, man, I should've guessed. Unlucky.

How so?

Because only a very small number of people actually use it?

Mr. Disappointment

4:57 PM

You don't mind it? Every time I open a solution and see it's VB.NET, I think how easy Sisyphus had it.

I prefer to think of it as an 'elite' skill, unlike those dime-a-dozen C#ers.

@MrDisappointment Are you familiar with the myth of Sisyphus?

"The struggle itself toward the heights is enough to fill one's heart." — Albert Camus

@Kit — He's a mod. He is obliged to be, lest mods like RegDwight and Kosmonaut ridicule him.

I find VB a lot more straightforward than C#, but were it otherwise, it would not matter, as I have no choice but to use what the team uses.

@Vitaly I meant The Myth of Sisyphus. Sorry, I should have specified.

Interesting factoid about Camus: ...

It doesn't change my phrasing.

Mr. Disappointment

@Kit I am. And I disagree. Sisyphus would have hated coding in VB.NET.

5:02 PM

@Vitaly :-) Ah! A wink's as good as a nod to a blind man, eh?

@MrDisappointment LOL

@Kit Yet another Nobel laureate with whom I've had sexual relations.

Back when he was playing football in Algiers.

I'm beginning to understand what it means to be well read.

@Kit My picnic was delicious, but now I'm sleepy.

Oh ugh. Look at this four-in-one question. What are we supposed to do about these?

0

Q: Meaning of hearth-rug, clam, bulging, and two-penn'orth in the following sentence.

So when, on the occasion to which I allude, he stood pink and genial on Pongo's hearth-rug, bulging with Pongo's lunch and wreathed in the smoke of one of Pongo's cigars, and said: 'And now, my boy, for a pleasant and instructive afternoon,' you will readily understand why the unfortunate young c...

meaning-in-context

5:19 PM

@aedia Mmm, yes, I just formatted it, thinking, what the hell, it might as well look nice.

I added a comment, which I hope was not mean.

Crikeys! Gotta run! Have a nice day, my peeps!

@Kit That's good. I really have no idea what to say about some of these things.

Bye, @Kit!

I mean, all credit to beginners, but Wodehouse is not where I'd start, either... There are descriptions in his writing that confuse native speakers. He calls people all manner of plums and clams and things.

Aw, I just missed @kit. Stupid phone. Or not so stupid, since it's the only way I can access chat right now. Something about Verizon and FIOS and 2-4 hours, which ended 8 hours ago.

(man, this on-screen keyboard is tedious.)

@Martha Oh noes! I don't know what I'd do without FIOS. I feel for you.

@Martha I've tried to use chat from my phone, but it was just too difficult.

5:34 PM

Yeah, I think I'm giving up now. Just wanted to let all you chatty types to know about my misfortune. (I believe everyone who uses Verizon in or near NY/PH/DC is affected, not just FIOS.)

@Martha I had internets at home this morning... crosses fingers

@Martha Hope yours is back soon!

@ZhaoRocky Ooh, it's somebody new! Hello :)

7

Q: Chat goes boom and I'm sad

Chat seems to be down (requests time out). Kyle, you broke stuff again!! Unless my link to the tubes is malfunctioning... Either way, I'm having withdrawals and it's not pretty. And really, I was going to leave it at that, but apparently that doesn't "meet our quality standards." What does th...

support chat maintenance

@Martha Ohhh. I get it. I now understand why I could not check on y'all from home last night.

I was tired anyway so I gave up.

My work obviously doesn't have the issue. But unfortunately, now I've got to do some more work while I'm here. Poo.

Feb 17 at 15:25, by Martha

Sorry, stupid work interfering with chat. Where were we?

Work just interfered the hell out of my chat life. Back now for I don't know how long.

Or I might pack it in and vacate. 4th of July weekend, you know.

2

Q: What is the etymology of "giving [it] the old college try"?

What is the etymology of giving [it] the old college try? In particular, is it referencing an old ritual that might have percolated amongst alumni of the old and prestigious New England colleges/universities? I tried Googling, but I'm not really finding an authoritative source at the moment. I...

etymology phrases

I'm thinking this maybe has something to do with college and trying. I know, going way out on a limb with that one, but still ...

5:52 PM

I dunno, I think some giving might be involved, too.

Yes! That was the missing piece!

I am here to...

um, wait

I am here too.

No, you are here too. I am here to.

We are here two.

5:54 PM

Where is @Cerberus btw.

He is 3 all by himself.

One is the loneliest number.

3 in Three is a 1989 computer game by Cliff Johnson. While bearing some similarities to his previous game, The Fool's Errand, 3 in Three brought the meta-puzzle to a new environment: inside the computer. The tale this time is of a wayward number 3, lost in the innards of the computer by a power surge. The 3 attempts to repair the damage caused by the power surge and make her way back to the spreadsheet, providing the background story for the game. A sequel, 3's a Crowd, has been mentioned as Cliff Johnson's next planned work after The Fool and His Money. Release Information Unlike ...

Two is just as bad as one.

Fore!

5:56 PM

I see Murray is getting hammered by Nadal. Same old.

Three, one the other hand, well, ain't got nothing bad to say about three.

[Golf clap]

Are you clapping yourself now?

Is this what this world has come to, too, and two?

Et tu, @Reginald?

Me?

5:57 PM

Du.

Who's that?

Der.

@Cerberus, you've got three heads and forty minutes to bite three asses.

@Robusto Why didn't you say so right away.

Pronounced durrrrr ...

Dem der sei der is wie dem es sei das.

5:59 PM

Thomas Dwan (born July 30, 1986) is an American professional poker player who regularly plays online in the highest-stakes No-Limit Texas hold 'em and Pot-Limit Omaha games, primarily on Full Tilt Poker, where he plays under the screen name "durrrr". In early November 2009, Dwan became a member of Team Full Tilt. Dwan has won prize money in live poker tournaments and has appeared on NBC's National Heads-Up Poker Championship, the fourth, fifth, sixth & seventh seasons of Poker After Dark, the third and fourth seasons of Full Tilt Poker's Million Dollar Cash Game, and the fifth and sixth ...

@RegDwight — Wort.

random question for @Reg: what is los in German? Is that standard German?

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