English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room - 2011-04-19 (page 2 of 2)

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8:00 PM

of whch only a few are about the linguist, not the noun

Try smilodon.

Is it the International Essay Day today?

0

A: "Is become" vs "has become"

I do not believe "is become" is archaic, any more than "he is gone", "I am come" and "He is risen". Since when has "become" turned into a transitive verb only? Can it be legitimately argued that "become" is an intransitive verb only? Some verbs in English may be used transitively and intransitive...

CANNOT READ WALL OF TEXT

CRWOT?

Yes

8:09 PM

text wall of text wall text

I like that.

@RegDwight Add that to the abbreviations list.

It has to gain momentum on the main site first.

I was actually thinking about adding stuff like SE, ELU, MSO, etc., possibly in a separate answer or something.

I want to comment "no" on that answer.

You can!

You could also comment thusly:

Feb 7 at 16:13, by Kosmonaut

ʕʔ

@RegDwight kopimistsamfundet.se/english I suppose you could call it the Church of Copypasta.

8:16 PM

I really dislike that answer.

Arguing that "is become" is not archaic is absolutely ludicrous.

@Vitaly I have no idea what that text is supposed to mean.

And if you can't cite anything later than Shakespeare as an example of the usage of "is become", then that doesn't really help your argument.

By the end, when he says that some consider passive constructions to be archaic, I started to wonder if he knows what "archaic" means. Maybe that is the problem?

Looking at that answer, I really wish I could understand English.

Unless it's in German, of course.

Then I would like to understand German.

"and, therefore, in the eyes of some, can now, with impunity, be accused" - so, this, in my opinion, could, accurately, be described, without exaggeration, as having too many commas...

@RegDwight I don't know... what little I have understood of it does not fill me with desire to read the rest :)

8:32 PM

D'oh, everyone knows there must be a comma before too.

mea culpa I'll fix it at once!

(or I would if the edit timer hadn't expired. never mind :)

I can fix it for you. But I won't. Bear the shame.

hangs head

Aww that looks cute.

Chin up!

Take it like a man.

You're well on your way to the Outspoken badge, BTW. Just for bashing Arabic. Who knew it would be so easy.

8:41 PM

Something weird happened. I was able to browse categories in OED Online without logging in, but after some time it started asking for my account. I tried to follow my steps again with no success.

Does anyone know if they're playing around with their settings?

I never quite understood how it works anyway.

Someone posted a link to an OED entry on ELU, and I was able to access it. But not any other entries.

I folllowed Kosmo's link to OED Online (with that dot in the end), then went to More Aspects of English, then to English in Use, then to cocktails, and from there I could access Browse Categories for a while. And the search tools.

Huh.

I didn't know people could access OED links

Um.

0

Q: English word forms not having cognates in any other language

I've heard that the word "dog" does not have cognates in any other known language (checked with etymonline ). That is, this very common words has similar forms in other languages, Germanic, Romance, or Celtic (those that have large overlap in vocabulary etymology with English). So my question is...

And suddenly it stopped working.

8:43 PM

I could swear I have seen that question before.

Like, twenty minutes ago.

2

Q: "Walk", "talk": forms not in any other language

I've heard that the words "walk" and "talk" do not have cognates in any other known language. That is, neither of these very common words in English have similar forms in other languages, Germanic, Romance, or Celtic (those that have large overlap in vocabulary etymology with English). So my que...

Sehe ich doppelt?

What the hell?

Oh

In the older one he says he'll repost with a proper example.

I guess the original should be closed?

I dunno

I... I dunno, either.

This is a first-timer.

Actually

The two questions are totally unrelated.

Sorry

@RegDwight would you care to give a link to that post?

I mean the two parts to the question.

8:47 PM

@Vitaly I'll see what I can do.

Can you view this? oed.com/view/Entry/…

@Kosmonaut You could not login for the following reasons: The referring URL used to access this site was not found. If the problem persists please click Contact Us

@Vitaly Can't find that one, but I have found another one: oxforddictionaries.com/view/entry/m_en_gb0345170#m_en_gb0345170

@Vitaly ok, that verifies that.

@Kosmonaut Nope, doesn't work.

8:49 PM

Too bad, because it is a funny entry.

@RegDwight That's not the OED though, no?

user image

Hey where do they say GRA-fitti?

Haha.

I wish I could get the full story on how someone could misprint bycoket that badly... but anyway

I have to go!

8:51 PM

Bai.

CU.

Tschö

Later.

That umlaut took long.

I mean, bye!

Feb 22 at 16:32, by RegDwight

Tschö mit Ö! Tschüssikowski! Ciao-Kakao!

@Vitaly For the life of me, I can't remember the word.

It was a huuuuge entry.

A really popular word.

8:53 PM

Ok, thanks anyway.

I haven't given up yet. This will be haunting me unless I find it.

The link was in a comment. That complicates the matters somewhat.

This is weird.

user image

note that it says “Sign in” in the upper right corner

i.e. I somehow managed to access it without logging in

You're weird! Your weirdness has bested the OED!

At least now you can look up weird words like Abelungu.

oed.com./view/Entry/256254

that's the link for Abelungu — it doesn't work anymore

WHY!?

9:15 PM

I think I figured out how to game OED Online.

Or not.

It actually is disturbingly weird. Two identical sequences of steps lead to differing results.

@Vitaly Works for me.

Wow.

I don't have time to investigate right now, but I suppose they might be using cookies.

They are using referrers, from what I'm seeing.

If I use Opera to fake a link from a website by modifying the source page, then it works for different websites, but not for the same one.

What's weird about it is that the same link (with the same rskey) works any time, given different websites.

Is there a science that studies the roots of a population?

9:26 PM

@Vitaly That's why I would like to find that link I mentioned.

I remember how freaked out I was that it worked, so I checked it again like ten hours later, and it still worked.

It just wouldn't let me access the rest of the site.

What? Opera doesn't allow me to delete OED cookies?

Are you accessing the OED site from different locations?

Nope

On campus, I can access OED directly.

Is them HTML5 über-cookies?

9:36 PM

Off campus I have to go through a proxy

My IP stays the same, also, the IP doesn't belong to any white lists

Hm

@Kosmonaut: I didn't realize you were still here. please have a look at this.

0

Q: How do you pronounce the H in "an historian"?

A lot of people I know argue that you should use the article "an" before words such as "historian", "history", "hotel", "hospital", "heretic". I don't want to debate whether or not this is correct or merely pretentious affectation, but I'm curious about how it should be pronounced. If I decide ...

I commuted home

Now I'm home

@RegDwight I don't think that's a dupe of the a/an question

9:40 PM

Which a/an question? We have half a dozen open.

I am linking to a specific one right in my first comment.

The first one you linked to in your comment

Though of course it is closely related

The other questions are about whether to use "a" or "an"

This is asking whether the "h" is pronounced, in those dialects that use "an" before an unstressed syllable starting with "h"

But it's getting extremely similar answers.

The answers to the one could very well be answers to the other.

Besides, note his comments.

He actually said that my comment answered his question.

I feel the same way, myself.

Note that I haven't unilaterally brought down the hammer even after those comments by the OP.

@RegDwight Yes, that was strange, I thought...

9:43 PM

I just don't want to end up with a site where every second question is about a/an, the Oxford comma, or past-tense verb agreement.

Yeah, that makes sense

But it is an interesting question

@psmears The thing is, if the OP says that that's what his question actually was, then I take that to mean that that's what his question actually was.

(to my mind at least)

@psmears Oh absolutely.

But it just happened to be that. He actually meant to ask something else.)))

We had a lot of interesting questions that turned out to be asking something else.

Anyhow, I think I will pull a nohat on this one, at least for today.

because there are dialects in which "an historian" is correct even though the "h" is aspirated (though I share @FumbleFingers' suspicion that these days it's more of an affectation rather than a genuine dialect)...

9:47 PM

Also, note my comment on PLL's answer. I have no idea if it has anything to do with anything, but still.

An is the older form. Go back far enough, and everything was an an.

...but also dialects in which the "an historian" is because the "h" is simply dropped (and this is the far more common case in the UK at least) - so someone who has only seen this in written form may well wonder whether the "h" is silent

@RegDwight Like ewts?

Pardon?

I seem to remember that it used to be "an ewt", but mistaken division turned it into "a newt"

Similarly (but in reverse) for "a nadder" -> "an adder"

Ah.

Ah!

Yes.

It used to be "a norange".

Now it's "an orange".

But that is the exact opposite thing, it happened later.

@psmears Yup, in reverse.

There are more here...

Anyway - I gtg - good night!

9:53 PM

Night!

I'll be off in a few minutes, too.

I'll ping @@10786.

@RegDwight Disabling cookies and sending fake referrers works indefinitely. It also lets me access the HTOED.

You evil commie hacker, you.

Information wants to be free

Information wants to be free is a slogan of technology activists typically invoked against any efforts to limit access to or charge money for information. According to contemporary criticism of intellectual property rights, the system of governmental control of exclusivity is in conflict with the development of a public domain of information. History The iconic phrase which is now used in different types of discourse is originally attributed to Stewart Brand. The first modern recorded occurrence of the expression was at the first Hackers' Conference in 1984, in the following context, when...

Apr 16 at 15:23, by RegDwight

@Robusto Every time someone mentions Commie Traitors it reminds me of one excellent essay titled "What colour are your bits?" Can't find the original right now, perhaps it's been taken down. But here's a mirror: http://ansuz.sooke.bc.ca/lawpoli/colour/2004061001.php

Read that one some time.

It's more about why copy protection is futile rather than why information wants to be free, but it's a good read.

I will.

Clicking “Category” or anything else outside of the entries ruins it. To access the HTOED, it's best to click Thesaurus within an entry. It also lets you search words indefinitely.

10:06 PM

Anyhows, I think I must be going.

Night @RegDwight

In case @FumbleFingers shows up and wonders why I super-pinged him, point him to the discussion about that a/an question.

Starting here:

30 mins ago, by RegDwight

@Kosmonaut: I didn't realize you were still here. please have a look at this.

I'm out!

-1

Q: English word forms not having cognates in any other language

I've heard that the word "dog" does not have cognates in any other known language (checked with etymonline ). That is, this very common words has similar forms in other languages, Germanic, Romance, or Celtic (those that have large overlap in vocabulary etymology with English). So my question is...

3

Q: "Walk", "talk": forms not in any other language

I've heard that the words "walk" and "talk" do not have cognates in any other known language. That is, neither of these very common words in English have similar forms in other languages, Germanic, Romance, or Celtic (those that have large overlap in vocabulary etymology with English). So my que...

will the fun ever stop?

10:21 PM

The fun never stops!

10:53 PM

0

Q: Our note in footnote of a book

NOTE: Sorry for cross-posting from writers SO - but I can't seem to get a definite answer. How do I designate the footnotes that are mine inside a quote? I tried "our note", "note ours" and "remark is ours". Which one is the correct one and most commonly used? Or is there some other way? For ...

I think this should have stayed in writers.SE, personally.

11:06 PM

1

A: Is "would" the past future tense of "will" or just a modal verb?

Yes, How could i know the 'would' is used as an modal auxiliary or just the past tense form of the 'will'? There is a very easy way to tell. Modal verbs have no tense. In modern English, all modal verbs are tenseless. There are no past tense forms or present tense forms. In older forms o...

Is Dan's answer to this question correct?

@Billare: Ugh I hate that answer. I'd call it wrong.

@Cerberus Did you pen an answer?

@Billa: Not yet, but I intend to!

11:22 PM

That answer is dead wrong.

Past tense usage of "will":

"I told him that I would go to the city the next day."

I really don't think you can trust anything this guy says, quite frankly.

Another example: "I think I can do it" -> "I thought I could do it"

I thought there was a little something in that modals couldn't create tense by themselves, though.

"I couldn't be there."

The sentence isn't past tense without the modal.

Interesting...

So is this Dan just ranting, then?

It's not clear to me where he is getting his ideas.

11:40 PM

What is the "past future tense"?

18 mins ago, by Kosmonaut

"I told him that I would go to the city the next day."

Probably referring to the word "would" in that sentence...

0

Q: English word forms not having cognates in any other language

I've heard that the word "dog" does not have cognates in any other known language (checked with etymonline ). That is, this very common words has similar forms in other languages, Germanic, Romance, or Celtic (those that have large overlap in vocabulary etymology with English). So my question is...

It is talking about something in the future of the past

Is F'xs answer here rather on the rude side, or is it just me?

It is

11:44 PM

@Kosmonaut It is probable, but has the expression "past future tense" even been used?

I have never heard it myself.

It would be like saying futuro remoto. :-)

Io fuirò, tu forai, egli furà, ….

@Billare @RegDwight: I think we should do something about that answer, but I'm not sure what.

@Kosmonaut I think so too..but I am pretty far from possessing the measured hand required to moderate... :)

Actually, I just wanted to alert RegDwight, but when I link to a post by you it automatically inserts the @billare

11:49 PM

@Kosmonaut BTW +15...you are well on the way ;)

Man... what the heck

haha

Oh, that is a old question. I even added a comment asking what the "paste future" would be.

Well, "I would like a tea" is neither past, nor future.

@kiamlaluno That one is subjunctive.

Subjunctive looks just like past in form, except in the subjunctive of "to be"

@Kosmonaut Is it the past subjunctive?

Subjunctive mood

In grammar, the subjunctive mood (abbreviated or ) is a verb mood typically used in subordinate clauses to express a wish, emotion, possibility, judgment, opinion, necessity, or action that has not yet occurred. It is sometimes referred to as the conjunctive mood, as it often follows a conjunction. The details of subjunctive use vary from language to language. there is a form of a different mood: be happy! – We are addressing second person but we do not use the form of the second person (are happy). With other verbs, it is not possible to illustrate this – they have lost the inflexions ...

11:53 PM

Grat, grat.

"I want you be in time."

That one isn't quite right

"I expect that you be on time."

That one would work

That.

But I was actually talking about "If I were you..."

I could not think of a good example, in 30 seconds.

Past subjunctive

@kiamlaluno It's easier when you're a native speaker :)

11:56 PM

@Kosmonaut Well, I am a native speaker too. ;-)

The difference is in which language(s) I am a native speaker.

okay, that's true :)

I guess I can count Eastern Lombard as native language too. :-)

I wonder if I can say that my roots are Lombard, or Celtic, or Insubre.

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