@MonicaCellio Thank you!

@HodofHod: I added a new tab to my spreadsheet with that Talmud found on hebrewbooks.org. It should all be correct It is missing Tamid, since that is not found on hebrewbooks.org

docs.google.com/spreadsheet/…

@Menachem Thanks! I've actually just gotten started on a synonym list for mesechta names, so this is a help!

@HodofHod I'm changing the Masechta names to the ones found in E-daf.org, since I like them better than my own

@Menachem I'm already using those :) They were the easiest to scrape.

I added the end of Meila from e-daf.org

@Menachem Ugh. That's annoying. Thanks for finishing it though! I'll probably have to fall back to those.

@Menachem Ah, no, I'm using the ones from dafyomi.org. My mistake. I think for now I'll leave them.

@Menachem Wait, those are Tamid and Middos. Should I consider them part of middos? On their own? Allow both? (Does that mean I have to start working on the other mesechtos ktanos? oy.)

@HodofHod If you consider them stand-alone they won't start from 2B, if that increases the complexity just continue Meila

@Menachem Oy. It wouldn't increase complexity that much, I just don't have patience to add it now. Next version.

I need a new name. Tanach Referencer won't work anymore. Thoughts?

@HodofHod ReferencingMadeEasy

References2Go, DIY-Referencing, Referencing4Dummies?

:D

@HodofHod MarehMakom

@HodofHod MY.Referencer

@Menachem I think this one is good. I like MarehMakom @DoubleAA, but I'd prefer to keep it English. (Then again, there's no technical reason why this script can't be used on any site, but I guess that's a bridge to cross when we come to it. Or not)

Persuant to chat.stackexchange.com/transcript/message/10119925#10119925 - Is there a way to make it that the new version overwrites the old version, instead of being installed side by side?

@Menachem I haven't had that issue yet.

@HodofHod It may be a chromium quirk

@Menachem do you have a normal chrome installed?

@HodofHod nope

[g berachos 1b] looks good to y'all?

@HodofHod I had wondered about b for bavli

Also any thoughts about taking hebrew characters? [ת בראשית ב ג]

@DoubleAA Do you link to yerushalmi often enough that you're hoping for that functionality? ;)

@DoubleAA It crossed my mind, but I don't relish that thought. If I could imagine anything making regular expressions even more of a nightmare, it's rtl text.

@HodofHod fixed vs variable costs. if you have a working bavli script, adding yerushalmi is basically a repeat. (I haven't looked at the code much; im just guessing)

@HodofHod I just tried it again but updating to version 1.01, and it replaced it. So if it was a problem, it's solved now

@HodofHod It looks good to me.

@DoubleAA where would it link to? MechonMamre?

@DoubleAA I think I could see it being either b or g, even once y is added. It makes sense to me that gemara would default to bavli.

@Menachem a viable option

@DoubleAA So? When someone says they just finished a sugya in gemara, 99 times out of a 100 it's a bavli. Not to mention for quoting purposes!

@DoubleAA The problem is that it is split up by chapters, while people normally quote it Chapter:Mishna

@Menachem i hear. better than nothing though

@Menachem I think it has to do with the filename. As long as that stays the same, Chrome will overwrite the old one.

@DoubleAA I guess you could have it ignore the Mishna e.g. [y Berachot 1:4] would link to mechon-mamre.org/b/r/r1101.htm . While [y Berachot 1 4 t] would generate [Yerushalmi Berachot 1:4](http://www.mechon-mamre.org/b/r/r1101.htm) - Yerushalmi Berachot 1:4

@Menachem I'd actually prefer [Yerushalmi Berachot 1](http://www.mechon-mamre.org/b/r/r1101.htm):4 - Yerushalmi Berachot 1:4

@HodofHod: Do you think it is confusing to have "t" mean both "Tanach" and "create a markup link"

@Menachem ...and not stand for talmud?

@Menachem @HodofHod perhaps l for link is better

@DoubleAA ok. I wanted to use t to link to the non-pdf gemara anyway.

@DoubleAA I mean, it's a link either way, but whatever.

:D

@DoubleAA @Menachem Just went up! Delete your old versions and upgrade. t flag has switched to l

@HodofHod can you put a link to the download page in this chat room description?

never mind. i can do it myself

room topic changed to Debugging for TanachReferencer: userscript at github.com/HodofHod/SE-Modifications/blob/master/Installing.md and meta post at meta.judaism.stackexchange.com/questions/1232/… (no tags)

@HodofHod Do you want to add "az" as a synonym for Avodah Zarah

room topic changed to Debugging for TanachReferencer: Download here: github.com/HodofHod/SE-Modifications/raw/master/… (no tags)

@Menachem yes please!

@DoubleAA Whoops!

undo undo undo....

@HodofHod there is no undo or history

@Menachem Yes. In fact, I need a lot of help with synonyms

just edit it again

room topic changed to Debugging for TanachReferencer: Download here: github.com/HodofHod/SE-Modifications/raw/master/… Meta post here: meta.judaism.stackexchange.com/questions/1232/… (no tags)

room topic changed to Debugging for TanachReferencer: Download here: github.com/HodofHod/SE-Modifications/blob/master/Installing.md Meta post here: meta.judaism.stackexchange.com/questions/1232/… (no tags)

@HodofHod You might want to include the current version # there

though that would require remembering to update it

probably not worth it

@DoubleAA Right. I think I can just pin these things

Version 1.5 is released. Support for Gemara added. Syntax is [g berachot 2b]

@HodofHod put up a request on meta. It should be easy for people to see what is already there and add more

@Menachem Is that OT for meta, though?

update github.com/HodofHod/SE-Modifications/blob/master/… for l

@DoubleAA already on it.

:)

@HodofHod IMO not OT. IM other O if people have suggestions for synonyms they should just ping you here.

@DoubleAA Wait. Is OT on topic or off topic?

@DoubleAA They could definitely do that, but if there is an editable list that people could see in front of them it would be a lot easier

@HodofHod lol. i meant off topic

so it's not off topic... right?

;)

@HodofHod Try [g yoma 1b l]

@HodofHod IMHO that statement is correct.

@DoubleAA It's always something isn't it?

just when I think I'm ready to commit.....

@HodofHod It's more funny than problematic

Wait... what's the issue?

oh i see

@HodofHod: [g yoma 3a l] give an incorrect link, hebrewbooks.org/shas.aspx?mesechta=6&daf=3a It should be hebrewbooks.org/shas.aspx?mesechta=6&daf=3

btw if you are thinking of including shulchan aruch (please... :P) he.wikisource is probably a good place to get regular links he.wikisource.org/wiki/…

@Menachem I see it.

@Menachem all a's do that i think

@DoubleAA i think you're right

@HodofHod there is no daf 1

@DoubleAA I figured as much, but 3A is number "3" in hebrewbooks.org's syntax

3A brings up a "page not found" error

@HodofHod you missed one two references to t here github.com/HodofHod/SE-Modifications/blob/master/…

Gottem!

@DoubleAA even better [g yoma 0a]

@HodofHod :)

@DoubleAA fixed! (hopefully...)

@HodofHod your code notes are hillarious

> if it's a 2-digit number then shalom al yisroel

@DoubleAA :D I was hoping someone would read them....

I really miss that old SO question....

@HodofHod Are you a youngest child?

@DoubleAA No, actually. I'm smack in the middle.

And we all harass the youngest....

@HodofHod with vegetables, I assume

@DoubleAA Mostly.

Oh wait, it's still around!!

@HodofHod: The generated Talmud link looks naked without the "&format=pdf" at the end.

@Menachem Saving it for when I put in the t -> text-only flag.

I need to start writing code comments and documentation late at night. They come out so much better that way....

@HodofHod How do I do something like if (flags.indexOf('m') == -1 AND flags.indexOf('r') == -1)? I want the case where there is neither an m flag nor an r flag?

@DoubleAA && I think. I don't know. I didn't really know JS before I wrote this. don't really know JS

@HodofHod and I don't really know JS even after you wrote this :)

@DoubleAA Me neither.

:D

But seriously. I had to look everything up on SO.

Still do.

@HodofHod w3schools.com/js/js_comparisons.asp @DoubleAA

I was right! YES

@HodofHod this? if (flags.indexOf('m') == -1 && flags.indexOf('r') == -1)

@DoubleAA Looks good to me. What are you writing?

@HodofHod I'm trying to change your defaults. The line where you have if (flags.indexOf('m') !== -1) { //Mechon Mamre flag is set I'm trying to make if (flags.indexOf('m') == -1 && flags.indexOf('r') == -1) { //Mechon Mamre flag is not set nor is rashi flag. The intended behavior is: no flag->mechon mamre ; m flag-> chabad ; r flag-> chabad+rashi ; mr flag -> chabad+rashi.

@DoubleAA shouldn't you change that to a c flag?

I can change the default for no flag / m flag to mechon mamre, but it's the rashi flag by itself that isn't working

@HodofHod i have to then change all instances in the code. and I won't use it very often anyway; i usually only use chabad.org for pesukim when i want rashi.

@DoubleAA Eh. One reference in the regex.

@HodofHod (i didn't read the whole code to find out how many times it would be. just opened it in notepad and searched for default)

@HodofHod Did you commit this?

@Menachem ....apparently only in my imagination.

Should be done now.

More comments for your enjoyment, @DoubleAA

@HodofHod it just makes the whole thing not work.

Got it. if (flags.indexOf('r') == -1) { //Rashi flag is not set

Now the m flag is irrelevant

@HodofHod

Just one character two characters difference...

If anyone else wants default to be Mechon Mamre, and chabad.org used only when rashi is called, replace indexOf('m') !== -1 with indexOf('r') == -1.

room topic changed to Debugging for Mi Yodeya Referencer: Download here: github.com/HodofHod/SE-Modifications/blob/master/Installing.md Meta post here: meta.judaism.stackexchange.com/questions/1232/… (no tags)

Looks like a lot of progress in the last 12 hours -- cool! As we start getting into talmud I'd like to make a request: can we think about support for English translations? (I think the only one online is Soncino.)

I know that most of the time people are going to want to link to the actual daf but, e.g., if I worked from the English in preparing a post I feel it would be dishonest for me to link to the daf. Also, links to just the daf won't help people like me; that's our problem, but when answering a question from someone who is known not to be fluent (or we suspect from the question), I'd want to link a translation even if I didn't need it personally.

(This issue doesn't arise with Tanakh because both sources that we use give both Hebrew and English. We're not going to find that for talmud, though.)

@MonicaCellio It's definitely on the roadmap. I'd probably go with halakhah.com

@MonicaCellio Well, not until Sefaria gets there, at least.

@HodofHod thanks. I'm bringing it up now not to push for it but to ask how that should affect what we name arguments now. For example, should we reserve "e" for "English"?

@MonicaCellio shhhh, the regex already accepts an e, it just doesn't do anything yet...

@HodofHod ah! Ok, I won't tell anyone you didn't already tell just now. :-)

:)

@MonicaCellio OOC, what do you use for english?

@HodofHod halakhah.com. But I still have to think explicitly about it, as I haven't fully internalized the idea that English is available online. (Years ago I bought one of the source-collection packages from Davka, so I consult the English translation in there, not online, when I'm researching posts.)

@HodofHod, on a different note, while I was on your GItHub page I also picked up your chat script, but what I'm seeing is a horizontal scrollbar, while I thought what you were adding was a vertical scrollbar so it's possible to see all the starred items. Did I misunderstand, or is something funky going on?

Oh wait, weirder and weirder. What I said happens in this room. But over in the Library it's working fine. Weird. Ok, never mind.

@MonicaCellio Something funky is going on.. Let me check my firefox...

@MonicaCellio Does this room have a vertical scrollbar when you click "show x more"?

@HodofHod ah, I see -- it appears when you do that, and I got caught in a toggle-script/reload/show-stars loop or something. I am seeing a horizontal SB here (but not in another room I'm in), only with your script enabled. Dunno what's up with that, as no text is off the edge of the window (scrolling doesn't reveal anything new).

Oh, I see -- it's not anything in the starred posts, but the meta URL in the room description. Ok, I can definitely decide to just not care about that. :-)

It's so nice to be able to see all the current stars again without having to go to the "all stars" page (which isn't always sorted the same).

@MonicaCellio Huh. I don't get that on my Firefox.

@HodofHod you probably don't zoom the fonts, or you have a bigger window or monitor, or something. :-)

@MonicaCellio Oh, right. Sorry. :)

After years of dealing with web sites that don't handle non-default assumptions very well, I'm delighted that tablets are becoming a big-enough deal that people will have to start factoring them in. "Is it readable on a tablet, and no I don't mean the mobile site designed for the phone" is going to be a bigger concern. Or at least I hope.

@HodofHod no problem! It's not your job to remember these things. :-)

@HodofHod I was going to suggest halakhah.com, but they only have linkable pages for about half the Shas.

@Menachem Does anyone have more?

@HodofHod I'm not sure, I checked comeandhear.com (not a pro jewish website), which is where it came from, but they have the same ones available. However, halakha.com seems to be run by Reuven Brauner, and he seems to be active on it, so maybe he would be interested in a project to convert the rest of the pdfs into the HTML pages.

Also, as I was browsing that page, I just found a link to sacred-texts.com/jud/talmud.htm. which seems to include other tractates, but doesn't seem to be complete either

Eh.

No offense, but I don't think that's a site I'd like to link to any more than comeandhear.

room topic changed to Discussion and Debugging for Mi Yodeya Referencer: Download here: github.com/HodofHod/SE-Modifications/blob/master/Installing.md Meta post here: meta.judaism.stackexchange.com/questions/1232/… (no tags)

Next up: Shulchan Aruch? Rambam? Mishna Berura? Something else?

Truth is, I want to know how much people will actually use the stuff that's already working before I start adding the entire Jewish library of seforim.

@HodofHod I think Rambam, since that too is quoted a lot, and is easy to link to. Someone added the Mechon-mamre links here, or at least a start. docs.google.com/spreadsheet/… --- I might go with hebrewbooks.org/rambam myself. -- All the others will be much more difficult to link to

@HodofHod That's a good point. We should try to get the regulars, at least, to start using it. I was thinking, once you were confident it was ready for the mainstream, you should add an announcement (an ad of some sort) on the front page of Mi Yodeya, "Install this extension to make it easier to link", etc.

@Menachem I could probably make a community ad.

@HodofHod What I'd like to see is an effort to get this enabled on the site by SE, like the citation feature someone pointed out here. meta.physics.stackexchange.com/questions/4191/… But I wouldn't push for it until this tool was mature, if only because it is much easier to change things now than it will be if it is part of the site itself

@Menachem I agree. Now is the time for beta-testing, user requests from here, and looking at actual usage. A community ad now would be great, since only a small number of users ever visit chat or meta.

@Menachem Someone mentioned that when a user is established (1000 rep points) we should direct him to meta.judaism.stackexchange.com/q/1635. Perhaps also to meta.judaism.stackexchange.com/a/1738, then.

@HodofHod Mishna? It's on Mechon Mamre but only a maseches at a time, I think. Wikisource has it a perek at a time. Mishne Tora is also a great idea.

@HodofHod Makes sense.

@msh210 Why wait? ;)

@Menachem Trouble with Rambam is that people usually quote by section, not book, which makes it a lot harder, since there's so many more of them.

@HodofHod I was trying to figure out how to do a 3 dimensional grid for the spreadsheet, Sefer, Chapter, Halacha

Maybe treat halacha like the verse

@HodofHod r==Rambam mt==Mishna Torah?

If so, they dont have to say it in the reference link, just in the "l" generated version

@Menachem yeah, I meant to choose just one of those :)

@Menachem But most people don't want to quote it by sefer. They quote it by topic. Hilchos Avodas Kochavim, etc.,

So the script has to recognize the names, in all their forms. If we force people to look up the book, they might as well just get their own link...

@HodofHod just ignore sefer and only take the topic (I think there's a better word for it)

@Menachem Probably. But then we're back to the original issue: compiling a list of possible spellings will be difficult and tedious.

yup, I just counted 85 topics, that's more than twice as much as shas

I say crowd source

it

@Menachem Definitely possible. But before I throw up a meta post asking for help, I'd like to get everything together, so it can all be done at once. I.e., mesechtos, and whatever else we might do.

@HodofHod so you can start with a couple placeholders

Later on tonight I hope to get started on adding Rambam to my spreadsheet. Mechon Mamre, Hebrewbooks.org, and Chabad.org english

@HodofHod ...for 1000 rep, you mean?

@msh210 Yeah :)

@HodofHod Maybe, but we don't want to bombard very new users with too much stuff.

@msh210 True. Still, if we do decide to put up a community ad, they'll already have heard of it. Hopefully/.

@HodofHod Yes.