Discussion on Mi Yodeya Userscripts

Menachem

00:12

@HodofHod I just tried it here, it didn't seem to work. Did I do something wrong: judaism.stackexchange.com/a/3145/603

I tried editing an existing post and it didn't work, but it did work on a new post.

HodofHod

@Menachem I see it. Good catch! I'm checking it out now...

@Menachem Fixed! Try again. Also, don't forget that you don't have to submit it to see if it worked. Just click outside of the textbox and it should work.

Menachem

@HodofHod copying and pasting this (taken from you instructions) does not work: [Why don't you check out this pasuk]([ref:Bereishis-3-7]) -- the words in the brackets are displayed as plain text, and the paretheses just disappear

HodofHod

00:28

@Menachem I see. Capitalization issue. Thought I got that already...

@Menachem Fixed, thanks!

Menachem

@HodofHod [ref:sam2-3-17] For Shmuel II, the link text in the link gets changed to Shmuel Ii 3:17

HodofHod

@Menachem Oy. Gonna have to figure out a different way to capitalize those titles. Got an idea...

Menachem

00:43

Feature Request: I don't know if it is possible, but some kind of syntax to pull the verse and quote it would be cool

2

HodofHod

@Menachem /Whistle

That would be tough for me. Not impossible, though.

Menachem

@HodofHod down the road

Bug: When using the link tool in the edit window, the reference gets changed to this: http://%5Bref:jer-4-6%5D

HodofHod

@Menachem I don't think that should be an intended usage of this script, though.

Menachem

01:01

In the source you have options with spaces like "2 ki", however, [ref:2 ki-4-4-t] or [ref:"2 ki"-4-4-t] doesn't work

HodofHod

@Menachem Right. That's a limitation in the regex I'm using now. I'm working on that.

@Menachem I've fixed the Shmuel Ii issue, thanks!

Menachem

@HodofHod cool. No big deal, but you didn't update the version number with the latest commit

HodofHod

@Menachem Oy. I'm new at this stuff. My codes a mess, too. :)

Menachem

01:18

At present, you have to add a verse, so [ref:div1-4] doesn't work, for example.

Linking to an invalid chapter does not error out. Instead, it creates an invalid url: [ref:div1-49-7] creates chabad.org/library/bible_cdo/aid/undefined#v7

Monica Cellio

01:41

← 10 messages moved from V'dibarta Bam

HodofHod

01:55

@Menachem Right. I saw that a while back. Meant to put that in the documentation.

@Menachem Huh. It's supposed to ignore those. Checking...

Menachem

02:22

for documentation purposes, this still works: [ref:div1-20-14-]

Monica Cellio

I should be able to type, say, [ref:gen-1-1] in a post and see something other than that literal markdown in the preview, right? (You may correctly conclude from the fact that I'm asking that this isn't happening for me now.)

Menachem

@MonicaCellio you have to click out of the edit box for it to take effect

Monica Cellio

@Menachem I did. No change.

Menachem

@MonicaCellio I'm not really familiar with greasemonkey, but you may have to refresh the page for it to kick in

Monica Cellio

@Menachem greasemonkey says the script is enabled and, after seeing that, I launched a new tab to test in. I shouldn't need to restart the browser, should I? (@Hod )

HodofHod

02:25

@MonicaCellio Nope.

Monica Cellio

@HodofHod yeah, didn't think so. Firefox 21.0, MacOS -- and I just now got a "we want to update; restart?" message (which I deferred).

HodofHod

03:16

@Menachem Updated: Doesn't require verse number, validates chapter, and accepts spaces before volume numbers. Won't accept spaces in the book name, so no Divrei Hayamim yet. Stick with div.

@MonicaCellio It doesn't work at all by you?

Monica Cellio

@HodofHod no. :-( I tried in a post (didn't save, just checked preview) and a comment (which I then deleted).

I'm going to restart Firefox (picking up that new version they just pushed). I'll test again after that. (This shouldn't matter, but I need to restart anyway.)

Menachem

@HodofHod I made this, which may help testing out the different issues. It's generated with a shell script, so if you find it useful and want to add anything let me know: m.uploadedit.com/b017/1372390147348.txt -- just copy and paste into the text box

It is a loop which tries to create all the different types of links using all the possible entries for divrei hayamim

HodofHod

03:33

@Menachem OOC, what language did you script it in?

Menachem

@HodofHod bash

HodofHod

@MonicaCellio Huh. I was running it fine in 21.0. Let me check something....

Menachem

@HodofHod It has some interesting results. For example, this doesn't work: [ref:1ch-4-5]

HodofHod

@Menachem Right. My regex is not nearly as broad or robust as it should be.

Menachem

[ref:1chron-4-5] ,

Monica Cellio

03:39

@HodofHod still no love. When FF came back after the update I couldn't recover my old session (!), so I applied Google and found out I needed to update Session Manager. While I was doing that I checked to see if Greasemonkey wanted to be updated; it did (from 1.0 to 1.9). So I restarted after all that (and recovered my session... oh my precioussssss sesssssion...) and tried again. :-(

HodofHod

To quote whats-his-name: Some people, when encountering a problem, think "I know, I'll use regular expressions!" Now they have two problems.

@MonicaCellio Huh? How are you adding the user.js to greasemonkey? Dragging it right in works for me. (I have to click "enable" on the script afterward.)

Menachem

@HodofHod we need this guy: xkcd.com/208

HodofHod

@Menachem :D

Monica Cellio

@HodofHod I dragged it in. Greasemonkey says it's enabled. But I think I am somehow seeing a Greasemonkey problem and not a this-script problem, as I also just installed your chat-scrollbar one and I'm not getting that either. Um, since I've already updated to the latest GM, I don't really know what else to do there. :-( But whatever I do, it won't be tonight -- gotta drop off RSN.

HodofHod

@MonicaCellio Double-checked that GM is enabled on the page? Make sure the monkey isn't dimmed. I really don't know what else it could be.... except.....

Mac!

;)

Monica Cellio

03:46

@HodofHod yeah, he's bright and shiny, not dimmed.

@HodofHod well yeah, but...

HodofHod

Script conflict?

Monica Cellio

The script depends on access to the google doc, right? In that case I won't be able to test from work (FF, WinXP).

HodofHod

Shouldn't be. I worked around most of them.

@MonicaCellio No, it's self-contained.

Monica Cellio

@HodofHod I only have a few scripts, but I disabled the others just in case.

@HodofHod oh! Ok, I'll try to give this a go from a Windows machine tomorrow then.

HodofHod

@MonicaCellio That is so very strange.....

@MonicaCellio Alright, let me know!

Menachem

04:07

@HodofHod what we need is a service that lets us input all the values we want and outputs a regular expression to cover them all

regexmagic.com/download.html

HodofHod

@Menachem Maybe...

Menachem

@HodofHod this might also be useful: regexpal.com

HodofHod

04:33

Couple more updates. Fixed some small bugs. Stripped out unnecessary chapter numbers (Hopefully this doesn't mess anything up too badly).

@Menachem Been using this one till now. Has some funny fringe behaviors.

Menachem

04:50

@HodofHod updated my list to include linked text when only using Chapter m.uploadedit.com/b017/1372394807114.txt

HodofHod

Truth is... I'm doing too much validating on the book name in the regex, when I can leave it to be done later, when matching the name. I think I'll just greatly simplify and broaden my regex. It'll accept a lot more, but it shouldn't break anything. I hope

...and in one fell swoop, all the Divrei Hayamims work!

...and committed

Menachem

05:29

@HodofHod way too much data to test it all, but here's a list of every working book synonym with 2 entries. One that works for all books (1:13) and one that doesn't (9:13): m.uploadedit.com/b017/1372397229674.txt

HodofHod

@Menachem Seems to work pretty well. I skimmed through all of it. Neviim acharonim seem to ignore the wrong chapter numbers just fine.

@Menachem Thanks again for helping me test and debug this!

Menachem

@HodofHod no problem

HodofHod

05:47

I'm thinking... is [ref: too unweildy? Should a go for something shorter, that avoids having to press shift? Like [r ber-1-1]? or [t ber-1-1]? perhaps do away with all punctuation [r ber 1 1]? allow for both/all?

Menachem

@HodofHod I was thinking something a little different. What if we changed the markup to {}? I'm assuming that is unused by SE. Then we can use markup like {Ber 2:16) and {Ber 2:16 rt}. Of course, that would make Books like Divrei Hayamim II difficult. But it is probably something we should discuss with people to see what they think

Jon Ericson

@HodofHod: Have you considered a syntax for verse ranges? Some sites show a subset of a chapter if you do a range like: Genesis 1:1-10.

Menachem

Also something to keep in mind. If we want to expand this tool to include Shas, with links to Hebrewbooks.org/shas and e-daf for Masechtas not found on hebrewbooks.org/shas, how would we do it? shoudl we even worry about it now

HodofHod

@Jon right now I'm just using Chabad.org, they dont do verse ranges. Maybe when u start adding other locations.

Jon Ericson

@HodofHod I'm just thinking that [ref:Gen-1-1-10] might be cumbersome syntax.

HodofHod

06:12

@Jon True...

HodofHod

06:29

@Menachem A problem for another day, methinks. We can always contrive something.

@Menachem I like this idea, but I think the {} are annoying. Ideally, the syntax shouldn't force people to go off into uncommon parts of the keyboard.

Menachem

@HodofHod a good point, but the advantage of uncommon keys is that they aren't used by anything else.

HodofHod

@Menachem I'm not too worried. SE mostly uses [] for tags and links titles. No conflict with tags, and I can't imagine real-life link titles that look like our syntax.

I think what I'll do is: [t ber 1 1 tr] (optionally, : or - will work instead of spaces) will be the new syntax. For now, the old one will still work, but I think once I start adding major things (Oral Torah, etc.,) I'll phase it out. Advantages: 1, No annoying keys. 2, easily extensible for other sources (i.e., gemara = [g ber 1a], mishna = [m ber 1 1]).

Monica Cellio

13:01

@HodofHod, one more data point: my previously-installed GM scripts are working just fine for me. So perhaps there is a problem with the installation of these new scripts somehow.

BTW, I edited the scripts (in FF) just to take out the blank lines at the beginning -- totally shouldn't matter, but just in case that doctype declaration is really finicky -- and on saving got the message "all scripts should specify grant type". Whatever that means. (It offered me documentation, but I don't have time right now.)

@HodofHod I think square brackets are a feature; this is another kind of link, and that's how links are done in Markdown.

Double AA

@HodofHod When using the -t flag, what name does it give the book you reference? Is it based on which form you used in the reference?

Monica Cellio

13:23

@HodofHod oh wait a minute... the failure appears to have been in the download from github. I suddenly realized: doctype??? (At first I didn't blink because JS is often embedded in HTML, but, um, I don't think that's what GM wants.) Okay...

Yeah, that was it -- I used browser-based save before, which did the wrong thing. Now I'm seeing action, though the link text for me is the URL, not the citation format. Hmm. (I tried [ref:gen-1-3] in a new question.)

Monica Cellio

14:00

So that was stupid. Sorry for the distractions last night. I've never used GitHub before, so when I saw no "download" or "save" button I went to the browser, thinking that a link called "something.js" would actually, y'know, be a link to a JS file rather than an HTMLified rendering of one. Sigh. I should have looked inside, which I normally would have for a random script on the internet, but since it was @Hod... this morning I figured out that the "raw" button was my answer.

Isaac Moses

14:45

@MonicaCellio @HodofHod, I tried to follow the installation instructions, which said to right-click on this link and "Save As," but I got an HTML page. I ended up just creating a blank js file and copying and pasting the script into it. If there's a more straightforward way to just download the .js file, I recommend that the installation instructions be updated to use it.

Monica Cellio

15:09

@IsaacMoses @HodofHod - if you go to the GitHub page for the JS file (the one that's marked up in HTML) and click the "raw" button, it goes to the plain old JS file. If you already have GreaseMonkey active, then it intercepts that and asks if you want to install it, which is what I did. No download/save/paste necessary (but make sure you have GM first).

Isaac Moses

@MonicaCellio Nice. Yes, that works. I suggest putting that instruction into the installation instructions, @HodofHod

HodofHod

17:42

@DoubleAA No. It's the name from Menachem's spreadsheets. I imagine they're Chabad.org's spellings.

Menachem

@HodofHod Except for Bereshit, I think they all are. I started putting them in manually, and then I just found it easier to copy paste.

HodofHod

@IsaacMoses Done!

@IsaacMoses Whoops! Didn't realize it would do that. I've fixed it.

@MonicaCellio Yeah, I don't know. I stumbled on something that says it'll just default to some acceptable value, so I'll worry about that later.

Isaac Moses

@HodofHod Thanks, but it still looks the same to me.

Monica Cellio

@HodofHod no worries -- this happened with my failed installation but not with the correct one.

HodofHod

@IsaacMoses ...mutter mutter....

pesky "Commit" button....

Done!

@MonicaCellio So it's working on the Mac now?

TRiG

17:52

in English Language & Usage, Jan 10 at 3:24, by Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

> A programmer had a problem. He thought to himself, "I know, I'll solve it with threads!". has Now problems. two he

Isaac Moses

@HodofHod Nice! FF instructions are easy as pie now. Are you going to do something similar for Chrome?

HodofHod

@IsaacMoses But they're wrong. The script has to be enabled manually in greasemonkey after isntallation. I just realized....

Isaac Moses

@HodofHod Didn't for me (FF)

HodofHod

@IsaacMoses huh. Looking into it...

Weird. I can't really pin down when that happens. I think it had something to do with me having multiple versions in FF (for testing)

Monica Cellio

@HodofHod this morning I saw it give me a raw link ('cause I didn't yet know about -t for a pretty link). So yes, the basic link was working and I trust that when I get home and get the syntax right, the rest will too. :-)

Jon Ericson

18:06

I forked a version to try out the syntax I usually use: [ref:1 Kings 2:3 t] => [1 Kings 2:3](http://www.chabad.org/library/bible_cdo/aid/15886#v3). I'm not sure it's backward compatible, however. ;-)

Monica Cellio

@HodofHod not if you answer "install" when GreasaeMonkey pops up its query.

@HodofHod oh. yeah, I didn't try re-installing; I removed the first and then added the second.

HodofHod

@JonEricson Cool! (That'll work here if you add a punctuation mark after the book name. I tried not to require it, but it makes matching book names that have spaces impossible.)

Monica Cellio

@JonEricson so the main diff there is the space in "1 Kings"? What am I missing? Or is it the "ref" (Hod's original) instead of "t" (new, for future extensibility)?

Menachem

In my case (running chromium) when installing the latest version, I have to manually remove the previous version. I don't know what the effect of having two versions running at the same time.

HodofHod

I.e., [ref:1 Kings-2:3 t]

Jon Ericson

18:10

@HodofHod Hmmm... that will cause problems with "Song of Solomon" and whatnot.

HodofHod

@JonEricson Yep. Couldn't think of a convenient way around it, so I just required a break. It's a trade-off for the book name, really.

Jon Ericson

@MonicaCellio The main difference is that Kings ends up as "Kings" rather than "Melachim". ;-)

HodofHod

@JonEricson Ah. I missed that. But what if I type [ref:kgs 1:2 t], what does it give me?

Jon Ericson

@HodofHod I think my regex works for Song of Solomon but fails for that string:

1

A: Formatting Sandbox

Song of Solomon 2:3 [ref:kgs 1:2 t] Can I get text to properly flow around images? We'll the raw HTML suggested in the editing help doesn't seem to work. And the regular way to embed images doesn't flow correctly, so I'm not sure what to do. Ask a meta-question, I guess.

TRiG

What about III Kings?

HodofHod

18:18

@JonEricson My mistake. Left out a verse number. Try [ref:kgs 1 1:2 t] or [ref:1 kgs 1:2 t]

Jon Ericson

But [ref:kgs 1:2 t] => [1kgs 1:2](http://www.chabad.org/library/bible_cdo/aid/15885#v2) (which is kinda ugly, but what I want).

HodofHod

@TRiG What about it?

Jon Ericson

@TRiG I pick that up because I want to support III John eventually. Neither will produce a valid URL, however. (A least not yet. ;-)

TRiG

@HodofHod (a) It's Roman numerals. (b) It's a book which appears in everyone's Bible, but only very old Catholic Bibles call it III Kings. (Everyone else calls it I Kings.)

HodofHod

@TRiG Yeah, the spelling list I borrowed from included 3 regn , 3 rg as synonyms. I wondered why. Thanks!

TRiG

18:25

I think it's a Douay thing.

I Kings = I Samuel
II Kings = II Samuel
III Kings = I Kings
IV Kings = II Kings

Monica Cellio

18:41

@TRiG wow, never heard of that before...

@JonEricson oh that... :-)

TRiG

@MonicaCellio Just an extra little bit of fun, eh?

Books of the Latin Vulgate

These are the books of the Latin Vulgate along with the names and numbers given them in the Douay Rheims Bible and King James Bible. There are 76 books in the Clementine edition of the Latin Vulgate, 46 in the Old Testament, 27 in the New Testament, and 3 in the Apocrypha. Old Testament {| border="1" cellpadding="2" cellspacing="2" |- ! Vulgate ! Douay Rheims ! King James Bible |- | colspan="3" rowspan="1" | Vetus Testamentum |- || Genesis || Genesis || Genesis |- || Exodus || Exodus || Exodus |- || Leviticus || Leviticus || Leviticus |- || Numeri || Numbers || Numbers |- || Deuteronomi...

Monica Cellio

@TRiG so if a Christian writes "1 Kings" and doesn't specify, we don't know if he actually means 1 Kings or 1 Samuel? Wacky.

TRiG

@MonicaCellio Well, I don't think anyone these days still uses the Douay-Rheims or Vulgate numbering in daily life. But the Watchtower Library (Jehovah's Witnesses study aid on CD-ROM) did, last time I checked it, understand references to 3 and 4 Kings and translate them accordingly to 1 and 2 Kings.

Monica Cellio

19:20

@TRiG thanks for the info. So for our purposes here on Mi Yodeya it doesn't matter; none of our users are going to use those names for Tanakh. But anybody broadening this script to include other religions' books should think about whether that matters. (In other words, I'm suggesting surrounding it with a SEP field.)

Jon Ericson

19:40

@HodofHod FYI: I don't think kgs 1 work because it kgs1 isn't in the spellings data structure. kings 1 works, however.

Jon Ericson

20:01

@HodofHod Hmmm... JavaScript regexen are greedy by default, so I'm pretty sure you can have spaces in the book names and use the space as a separator. As long as the regex can match chapter and verse, it will take everything before that as the book.

HodofHod

@JonEricson The problem is that theres a wide range of possibilities. Examples [t sam 1 1 1 tr] or [t ber 1] or [t ber 1 1]

In the last case, how would the regex know if the first 1 is part of the book name, or the chapter name?

Anyhow.....

Mechon Mamre, coming right up!

Jon Ericson

@HodofHod Is the verse optional?

HodofHod

@JonEricson Yes.

Another complication.

Jon Ericson

@HodofHod Ah. That explains things.

@HodofHod Looking forward to it. ;-)

HodofHod

Possible solution: Accept `[t ber 1 1] to mean book - "ber 1" and chapter = "1". Then, when the book title match fails, go back and reinterpret the first "1"

Jon Ericson

20:19

@HodofHod If it were me, I'd either make the verse required or disallow the number separated with a space after the book.

HodofHod

@JonEricson Much as I dislike it, I think you're right. I'm going to require the number to be directly after the book, with no space [t sam1 1]

HodofHod

20:49

Version 1.0 is released. Mechon Mamre is now supported.

3

(In other news, [t ber 1 1] and [t ber 1] are now valid. [t sam 1 1] is not.)

Monica Cellio

21:59

@HodofHod yay! Thank you so much, and yashar koach! And Shabbat shalom.

Transcript for

Discussion on Mi Yodeya Userscripts