The 2nd Monitor - 2014-06-14 (page 1 of 3)

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12:01 AM

*someone on SO*
Well that explains it. :-P

Simon André Forsberg

@Corbin With the current state of SO, I suspect that editing posts is the easiest/best/safest way to earn the "getting-started" reputation over there.

@SimonAndréForsberg Guilty. :P

That's how I make all my rep on there nowadays.

True. I didn't consider that he's over the rep for edit privs now, but he might not have been when the streak began.

And 30% of his points are from one answer... lol

Hrmmm, he's continued his edit streak long after he got the Steward badge, so maybe I'm just being paranoid. I am a bit biased after all considering the edit to my post kind of pissed me off with its complete and utter uselessness.

Yesterday, I had a suggested edit rejected and "improved" just to remove legitimately-used backticks. That really pissed me off.

Oh god.... Was it on SO or CR?

12:14 AM

SO

You should See Jamal's history on SO .... you think he spends time editing things here?

Oh yeah... Jamal wouldn't have to suggest edits on CR.

Hahaha. He truly is an edit addict.

He's so addicted to editing, that ge can't get his fill here...

@Corbin Yeah, SO. I'll grab it right now.

stackoverflow.com/review/suggested-edits/5049331

I think I figured that Jamal's association bonus is 100, his actual rep, is about 100, and the remaining 500 comes from suggested edits ... ;-0

Wow... that's pretty messed up. Makes me wonder if that guy did it maliciously so he could get the edit.

12:17 AM

I do have posts on their that can receive votes. ;-) I've pretty much stopped asking questions, and my gun isn't fast enough for answers.

While we're calling people out, here's the edit that pissed me off: stackoverflow.com/posts/14028283/revisions

@Corbin As frustrating as that was, I just have to remember that it's really just a drop in the bucket of shit that happens there daily. I wouldn't be surprised if someone ended up following someone else just to reject their suggested edits.

@Corbin Uh... no

Yeah. That wouldn't surprise me either, unfortunately.

@Corbin I figured that out by looking at activity on your posts. I went through the guy's public history, and I figure he may just be over enthusiastic

Also, he's been hitting thr review queues pretty hard.

Yeah, the more I looked into him, I think I jumped the gun.

I didn't report him or anything.

12:20 AM

His edit's are about 50% good, and the rest is on the decent side of borderline

His reviews all look sane

All he did was add quotes though. It didn't even need quotes. If anything, make it have backticks. Or quotes inside of backticks. It just felt like such a pointless edit that I immediately assumed he had some other motivations.

Sometimes I think that editing privileges should be based on suggested edit history, not rep. Too many people cannot edit for shit.

@Corbin I've seen some edits that just involved adding "thanks"...

But yeah, overall he looks legit. I just always feel a bit violated when a post is edited for some random crap. I love edits that actually improve the post, of course (gotta love when someone improves my stuff with no cost to me), but pointless ones feel like I was somehow taken advantage of lol.

@Jamal Oh god... if that happens more than once, that should be ban worthy x.x

lol

Fortunately, that was with users with less than 2K, and I think the reviewers received bans.

Wait, wait, wait... It got approved?!

12:23 AM

Not overall, if I recall. Some users approved, and others rejected. Just the ones who've accepted received bans.

Captain Obvious

0

Q: Getting the file path from a texture

I having trouble getting the coding right to finding the path file of a texture. I'd like to be able to String filepath = object.texture.content.filepath.??? .something like that

@Jamal They actually got banned? That's kind of hilarious. I was just joking.

@Corbin I really think it's just because I'm obsessed with cleanliness in some ways. Of course, editing is the way to clean things on SE. This is also why I'm glad I haven't hung around a forum in a while. :-P

@Corbin Review bans are always temporary. On SO, it's much more necessary, needless to say.

Hahahaha, because you can't edit other people's posts on forums? :p

Yeah, I figured it would be temporary. Does it just ban them from reviewing, or is it a real ban?

Just reviews

12:28 AM

Yeah, unless of course I was a forum moderator.

Ah, just banning from reviews makes sense I guess...

As for question bans on here, we would have to suspend instead. There's not nearly enough bad questions to warrant having question bans turned on.

Yeah, CR is pretty lucky with regards to question quality. Just one or two off topics per day.

Simon André Forsberg

TTGTB

At least SO doesn't seem to be erroneously directing people here as often anymore... x.x

12:32 AM

Goodnight!

Night, Simon

@Corbin I have noticed that. :-) Perhaps people will flag instead of commenting, so that the SO mods can check with us first.

Night Simon

@Jamal I think we've finally just bitched at people enough that they're slowly beginning to learn :D

And on SO, too. That's a gosh darn miracle.

12:35 AM

I'm sure it's just temporary... And then we'll have to begin a new crusade of firmly correctly mislead SO people, but... We can enjoy the clam for now :D lol

Have you seen chillworld's post on SO meta, that got 'featured'?

Probably so. I hate being a toilet. >.<

Yes I have. Over 100 votes!

@Corbin - look in the right margin 'Community Bulletin' box on the front page: stackoverflow.com/questions

...scratch that. Over 200 votes.

@rolfl Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh! That explains so much! Thank you, @chillworld. You've done us all a great service!

12:38 AM

Well, shog9 'featured' it too.

Since the "handy checklist" already answers the question, why do we need this post? Also you aren't really asking a question, as much as posting an additional answer to the "handy checklist" link. I think we can close this as a duplicate. — Lundin 16 hours ago

Then I'd @shog9 too if I could :p

Since when do Meta posts always have to ask a question?

Since MSO got annoyingly cliquey and bitter

hides

Incoming Java/Groovy question (not even Java).

Captain Obvious

12:44 AM

0

Q: Parsing version number from a Java source file

I'm extracting the version number from a file like this one. It works, but I find it clumsy and longer than probably needed. I'd also appreciate some sanity checks as long as they don't make the code noticeably longer (It's just a script, no full Java parser. Something similar to Guava's getOnly...

java parsing grails

1:01 AM

0

A: Be careful when recommending Code Review to askers

When a post involving reviewing code is encountered, any of these two things can happen: one or more users leave a comment, telling the OP to post on CR one or more users flag the post for migration As I've observed, the former causes the most problems. Sometimes the user is not quite right ...

Captain Obvious

1:17 AM

0

Q: Is that a meaningful Intrusive Pointer Class

Is this intrusive pointer implementation correct: I tried to use the CRTP Pattern to avoid a virtual destructor in my class ReferenceCounting which provides the reference counter. Is this efficient? The following things I could not solve yet: How to make conversion between IntrusionPtr<A> to ...

design-patterns c++11 template polymorphism

1:47 AM

@Jamal wow the post is featured and has > 200 votes!!

(reads previous chat posts) ... hum.

And it has already reached the bronze and silver views badges.

So, it's now official, I signed the offer and handed in my resignation earlier today. Starting July 7th I'll be a Business Analyst reporting directly to the President and COO (or Director of Operations, TBD) of Samuelsohn ltd.. Not exactly back into retail, so I'll keep the @Mat'sMug display name ;)

3

2:05 AM

hi

yo

I'm thrilled! :D

5

:-)

I'll get to work with people I used to work with at Tommy Hilfiger some 10 years ago (that's how my name came out and how I was contacted out of the blue - I didn't even need to give them my CV)

2:20 AM

@Malachi currently installing: KDE/kTurtle for Windows :)

I'll probably be cutting down my CR time quite a lot in 3 weeks, at least during the day. @SimonAndréForsberg will be able to catch up!

@Mat's, that's great!

that I'll be cutting down CR time and that @SimonAndréForsberg will be able to catch up? ...I know, right? hehe

yeah, that tooo

Just finished watching "In Brugge...."

but, apart from being a brilliantly british movie, was also quite disturbing

still, I think you'll do well to get out of the Windows and doors.

totally

and of VB6

@Mat'sMug screen shots or it didnt happen

2:29 AM

Business analyst has different challenges.

Huh, I was not far off the mark when I suggested you were going to become a model ... ;-)

user image

ermagurd

?

where's the K desktop though?

i never knew kde ran on windows, lol

@rolfl I was so biting my tongue!!

2:33 AM

I can believe it.

@DaggNabbit That's just Mat's discovering how real software is supposed to work.

my boss somehow wasn't surprised when I resigned...

@rolfl what, with a turtle doing all the work?

Like, hey, I wrote the program using a real language that is unencumbered by proprietary crap, so, if I recompile it, presto, look it works on Windows.!

lol

2

@rolfl (cough) it's a special build specifically for Windows...

cross compiling stuff for windows isn't as hard as you'd think, but...

idk, kde is massive

2:35 AM

I only picked kTurtle though

@Mat'sMug Have you seen the special build of Internet Explorer made especially for Mac, or Linux?

there was an old ie for mac

idk about linux?

@rolfl the question is, who the fuck would want to run that?

well, good point.

I don't even run IE on Windows...

2:37 AM

Funnily enough, I think I get to reinstall Linux on my work machine.

i've been switching some of my machines back to debian lately

after mostly switching to ubuntu

IBM is making a new drive to move everyone off MS Office, and also off Windows. The only reason I run windows is to get powerpoint beccause I have discovered I need to do presentations to execs, and they want it all in the latest/greates PPTX format.

If IBM can get the execs off MSOffice, I am set.

(and no, running it in a VM never worked well for me.

yeah it wouldn't be ms office without breaking the file format every 5 years

4

and breaking everyone else's format as well ....

what is IBM planning to move people onto?

libre?

google docs? xD

2:40 AM

apache : www-03.ibm.com/software/products/en/…

whoa, openoffice is ASF now?

i thought there was some problem with Oracle or someone

yup.

I heasrd a rumour .... let me check if it is public... hang on.

hmm, all the apt repos got rebranded to libre office

@DaggNabbit that's like... office & rhum?

Hello :)

2:47 AM

I'll have a Virgin Cuba Libre please

Is Open Office any good these days? Haven't used it in ages. Could it feasibly actually replace MS Office now, or would there still be edge quirks stopping that?

rhum?

hey @AlexL

is that what pirhats drink

Can't find public references... hmm

2:48 AM

Open office has been good for a while

i mean, good enough for a spreadsheet or document or whatever

Hrmm, I'll have to give it another try soon. Maybe I can actually move to linux :/

@Corbin - I have been using it for a long while. It is certainly good enough to do everything you want, except get seamless no-change-to-formatting interoperability with MS products

Ah, well, that's the deal breaker for me.

When the rest of the world uses MS Office, it's quite a pain to be the one person using OO. People get tired of getting weirdly formatted documents x.x.

it's not any worse than various versions of MS office trying to read each others file formats for the most part

2:49 AM

Maybe other companies will start following IBM's lead.

I am talking about 2 years ago, but, I could do everything, but when opening the open office document in powerpoint, there would be font-size changes, slight icon misalignments, etc.

Ah, yeah. I remember using OO for a powerpoint once, and it was absolutely unusable.

yeah, i think PPT was the worst of the bunch

I havent used it in probably 5 years though.

No, it is all very usable now, and, in fact, probably more usable than powerpoint.

I hate the powerpoint menu / ribbon system, can't find things when I need them

2:51 AM

(raises eyebrow)

Well, I really used "usable" incorrectly in that context. Until OO has near perfect fidelity with MO, I'll not be able to use it :(.

I guess what I really mean is "drop in replacement" haha

Which I'm sure it will never be, since MS is likely purposely playing games.

Yes. They do.

(I miss groklaw).

i remember ms office doing a lot of creepy stuff

@rolfl do you also miss Lotus 1-2-3 and WordPerfect?

like you hit ctrl-f, a network connection to redmond opens up

2:53 AM

wth

Blerh... just realized my BIOS update earlier borked something. Be right back.

@Mat'sMug - I miss wordstar and visicalc

you write the word "president" and invisible control characters are inserted into it

etc

that was back in the windows xp days, not sure if it's still like that

This has all made me tempted to do my yearly "try linux again. love it for two weeks. realize i still need to use windows." attempt

Just don't try the new Ubuntu 14.04 desktop in the default install..... I am not linking this .... unity? interface.

2:59 AM

Oh, don't worry. I still follow linux closely. I use it in a virtual machine pretty much daily.

May just try kubuntu

I just like having it as the base install :(

And yeah, the unity crap is unbearable.

I typically go with either xfce Mint or Xubuntu, but that's partly just because of running in a VM.

I have ..... counting the raspberry pi ... 4 ubuntu machines at home

Oooo i should do something with my rpi.. I always forget about it

2 run mythbuntu

3:01 AM

If you count virtual machines, i Have about 20, maybe 3 of which see actual use.

make that 5.

Alright, I am off to bed.

@Mat'sMug - congrats on the new deal.

All the best.

Night

thanks! good night!

Did the current people want you to stay, or ar they happy to see you go?

night rolfl

unity is not my cup of tea either, gnome 3 is much nicer

speaking of tea...

3:02 AM

I just want everyone to stop trying to move to some kind of magical one size fits all UI.

FWIW, I once had an annual performance review that went along the lines of:
> Rolf struggled this year. It was not his best. He is a race-car part trying to run in a tractor engine.

A tablet, a phone and a freaking desktop computer have nothing in common in terms of use.

My best review ever!

F*@# off with your stupid Metro and Unity

But, no increase, no bonus.

3:03 AM

@DaggNabbit There was a real problem, but unless I'm mistaken, you're remembering it incorrectly. The bug was that if you typed in "Bush hid the facts" (or something pretty similar to that), saved it and reopened it, it would be displayed as Japanese (or maybe Chinese--can't remember) characters.

lol I was given a < 2% raise this year. They can't even try to make me stay... I don't think anyone will be surprised though, I've been bitching about that crap code for too long. and I also said I wasn't like my predecessor, who bitched about the crap code for some 6 years.

Never forget: anything less than inflation is actually a loss of payment :/

how about a 45% increase?

^^^ that's nice....

that certainly qualifies as a raise :D

3:05 AM

And, with the SO (significant other) starting to work soon as well?

Wasn't a matter of anything hidden being inserted though. It was a matter of a function called "IsTextUnicode" making an incorrect guess. Since the string could be interpreted as a legal UTF-16LE string, it was.

@JerryCoffin whoa, never ran into that... i'm almost positive I remember noticing it with the word "president"

@rolfl yup

Don't spend it all at once ;-)

no new car for 6 months at least... no new house for 8 ;-)

Set up the RRSP pre-authorized payment, and max out the RESP(s) ... ;-)

@DaggNabbit Well, there were quite a few more strings that could/would trigger it. That just happens to be one I remembered when you mentioned "president".

3:06 AM

but in this case there were definitely non-printable characters being inserted

@rolfl definitely!

There was quite a bit of speculation at the time about it being some sort of conspiracy.

i caught it when people were copypasting stuff from word into a cms, and i was wondering how it got there, and started playing around with word

how does the saying go? "never attribute to malice..."

Never ascribe to malice what can be addequately blamed on incompetence

that's it ;)

3:08 AM

@DaggNabbit That would be a bug either in what Word was putting into the clipboard, or (more likely, in my experience) a bug in how the cms was interpreting what was in the clipboard. What goes in the clipboard is only minimally related to what Word stores internally though.

@DaggNabbit - I believe that's hanlon's razor/

Hanlon's razor is an eponymous adage that allows the elimination of unlikely explanations for a phenomenon. It reads: ' This particular form is attributed to a Robert J. Hanlon. However, earlier utterances that convey the same basic idea are known. Origins and etymology The adage was popularized in this form and under this name by the Jargon File, a glossary of computer programmer slang. In 1990, it appeared in the Jargon File described as a "murphyism" parallel to Occam's Razor. The name was inspired by Occam's razor. Later that same year, the Jargon File editors noted lack of knowled...

@rolfl The dull razor he threw away a week ago or so... :-)

@JerryCoffin those control characters (or whatever they were, they were reserved characters not used for anything) were going right into the document

and the only word i found that made them appear was "president"

i remember it pretty distinctly because i thought it was so strange

@DaggNabbit There's a lot that goes into the document itself that you don't directly put there. Internally, text is basically stored as instances of objects that store not only the letter itself, but also the font, size, formatting, positioning information, etc. What you see on screen is the result of rendering that information, not the information itself. [Do I really have to explain things like this to a programmer?]

no, you don't ;)

i'm telling you, these things did not belong there

3:14 AM

@DaggNabbit Did not belong where?

@JerryCoffin - I', with Dagg here... my experience with MS is that you expect the unexpected... and, just when you thought, It couldn't possibly be that stupid, that's when you know you are right....

anywhere. that was the only place those characters occurred in several documents i checked

It's Monica Lewinsky's fault.

What was he smoking .... ?

a "cigar"

3:16 AM

But he did not inhale? Oh, that was someone else .... ;-) ??

@DaggNabbit I'm pretty sure we must be talking past each other here--none of what you're saying even makes sense (to me) at all.

@JerryCoffin it doesn't make sense to me either, but that's what i observed

@rolfl no, that was Clinton

@DaggNabbit No, I mean it's like I try to tell you "forks dream of bloody rainbows". The words simply don't fit together into coherent sentences.

oh, that's just my feeble attempts at constructing meaningful sentences

put it like this, you type some words...

I am slowly coming to the realization that software products and operating systems are approaching their maturity ... new features are not needed.

3:20 AM

...and none of the words have weird invisible characters appearing inside of them except "president"

But companies have programmers to pay, and sales targets to make, and shareholders to keep happy.

The only way to do that is to add features that are unnecessary.

and lo, the ribbon was born

This keeps the sales pipeline fresh, the revenue streams up, the marketing folk in business, etc.

The developers get something to do, and the testers have somethiung to test, and so on.

ribbon is awesome once you get used to it BTW. I wouldn't go back to my Office 97-2003 toolbars.

And, you have to keep up with the jones's

In this case, the jones's is Apple, and MSoft is failing to keep up.

3:22 AM

@rolfl I've seen quite a few companies (not personally, but through friends) go through phases where suddenly they have a boom of new projects. Everything must be redone! It's 2014! We can do it better! So they higher tons of people on giant teams, and everything great. Then suddenly everything is done, and of the X people they highered in the past few years, only X/10 are really necessary for maintenance and upkeep, and suddenly everyone gets to find a new company in a boom :/

The real winners are people who establish mature software that has a stable revenue stream unrelated to sales, but more to licensing.

(and the service/support that goes with that).

Yeah, that's what the company I'm about to work for has done

So that's what I'm going to tell myself

haha

:D

@rolfl IMO, this is not the case at all. What's happened (at least in Microsoft's case) is that the software needs lots of work, but the people who were running the company were such idiots they didn't recognize even the most obvious problems, so they did all sorts of things that were stupid, useless, irrelevant and did essentially nothing to fix the real problems.

This is how RedHat is able to be successful even though it does not sell anything.

@JerryCoffin That is also a problem.....

RedHat figured out the secret of selling support for a product, not the actual product

3:25 AM

i would probably use redhat/fedora/centos more if yum weren't so horrible

damn. I accidentally undocked the KTurtle code editor, and now I can't move it anywhere, and can't dock it back onto the main window.... apparently even Unix stuff has issues.

or that's just the Windows build acting up.

@Mat'sMug But, you can fix it if you want....

Unfortunately, I can't point to any other company that's doing any better of a job right now either. Apple is producing some of the worst software in history, IBM has pretty much just dropped out of the (application) software market altogether, Adobe is only marginally better than Microsoft, ...

@rolfl I'd have to install the source code, I didn't... perhaps I should have.

I work at IBM.... I have a different perspective on things.

I think IBM is making a number of good decisions.... but, they don't get their revenue from the fad cycles.

For the most part, people don't realize how much they depend on IBM....

Meh, I am on a sermon here.

3:27 AM

@rolfl Yes, I remember. They may do some things well, but they're not enough of a presence in the market for basic business applications to (for example) force anybody else to do a better job.

what is IBM working on now days anyway

besides hardware

I actually must admit, I'm not quite positive what IBM does these days. I know they're obviously huge, but they're certainly not in a sector directly facing the general public. I'm assuming they focus on large server deployments (including selling hardware? I think they still make their own hardware?) and support for said servers?

@DaggNabbit - IBM is 450,000 people.

What are they not working on?

Wow. I had no idea IBM is that huge.

@rolfl i have no idea what they are or aren't woring on, that's why i asked ;)

3:29 AM

Things I am involved with that IBM does that I can talk about.....

IBM buys companies, and they sell companies.

> The International Business Machines Corporation (IBM) is an American multinational technology and consulting corporation, with headquarters in Armonk, New York, United States. IBM manufactures and markets computer hardware and software, and offers infrastructure, hosting and consulting services in areas ranging from mainframe computers to nanotechnology.[3]

For example, they sold lenovo.

they bought cognos, SoftLayer, Algorithmics, and countless other things.

hmm... are they playing the patent game too?

IBM has more patents than anyone else.

yes, but, they (claim to) only use them defensively.

don't they all

3:31 AM

which is not true, but, thy are not bad citizens

it's a regular arms race

i should just patent scrollbars or something and retire

IBM has been patenting things like mad since they made their first cheese-cutter in the 20's or earlier

> It manufactured and sold machinery ranging from commercial scales and industrial time recorders to meat and cheese slicers, along with tabulators and punched cards.

@rolfl Not quite true. Lenovo was a separate company. At one time, IBM built all PCs themselves. Then they did like most others, and let out contracts to have them built externally--by Lenovo in their case. Eventually, they (quite rightly, IMO) decided the PC hardware business wasn't a good place for them, so they sold the rights to their PC trademarks and such to Lenovo, who then started selling directly what they'd previously only sold through IBM (still using the trademarks IBM sold them).

That is more accurate, yes.... but, in a general sense, IBM often identifies rising markets, with high margins, and then explots the markets with the competition until the market saturates.... at which point it divests.

Because it is doing this all the time, it is hardly news.

@rolfl IBM not only has more patents than anybody else, but they continue to get more patents than anybody else. Unlike quite a few other companies, however, most of IBM's patents are actually quite good--they get patents on valuable new inventions.

3:35 AM

interesting

IBM buys and sells companies at the rate of about 1 a week

i wonder why they never got into the mobile game

tablets and phones and stuff

EWach time they buy they buy a growing company in a growing market, they add value through extending the exposure of the company, adding credibility, but most importanly, by injecting the maturity and experience needed to make it a good business for a longer term and to make rise to the top of the market.

IMO, if you're going to talk about what IBM does, you need to place the TJ Watson Research Center at, well, the center of the presentation. What IBM does (and has done for a long time, and continues to do better than anybody else) is basic research, and following it through to developing real products that people use.

@DaggNabbit - IBM works in high-margin areas.

@JerryCoffin - that was my next point.... they use the revenues from this process to truly innovate.

they are the largest research institution in the world.

Each time they innovate something, they use, sell, license the innovation in a way that both allows people to make progress, and IBM to make money.

3:39 AM

Prime example is hard drives: virtually every invention that has increased the density of hard drives from 30 megabytes requiring a 30 inch platter, down to multiple terabytes that you can pick up with one hand has come from IBM.

yet they do not sell hard drives

@rolfl ...any more.

Well, Mat's lives in quebec, home of one of the most advanced chip fabrication plants in the world.

More accurately, they don't make hard drives any more. Of course, if you buy a computer from IBM, they undoubtedly sell you a hard drive in it.

What's special about it? well, it is custom made to be a low-volume, but highly flexible system.

It is hugely expensive....

Most chip fabs need to be completely rebuilt to build a different chip, or density, etc.

3:42 AM

does that mean they could replicate old legacy chips that you can't find anymore?

Most probably, yes.

like if I wanted a SID chip

(i do)

i wonder how much that would cost

@DaggNabbit It has some limits. IIRC, it's pretty much devoted purely to digital logic chips, not analog. Depending on the volume you want, logic chips as old as anything from the Amiga in small volumes can be duplicated in an FPGA.

ahh... too bad

SID was mixed

digital in, analog out

@rolfl I didn't even know that :/

3:47 AM

www-03.ibm.com/employment/ca/en/br_intro.shtml

(had to read twice to make sure you meant computer chips, not potato chips!)

IBM probably made potato chips at one point too.

3

(they certainly made cheese cutters).

@DaggNabbit There are mixed-signal FPGAs that can do things like that. One of the first was the Actel Fusion series, but nowadays Xilinx has some as well.

@JerryCoffin I just found this: gadgetfactory.net/2011/08/commodore-64-sid-chip-on-papilio-fpga

@Mat'sMug - ibm-indonesia.com/project/…

^^^ potato chips.

3:50 AM

lol!

2

Unfortunately, not the same IBM.

idk, this FPGA SID doesn't sound right

might as well use a software emulation =/

@DaggNabbit Hard to be sure, but it may well be emulating analog output by generating PWM waveforms. One using logic to drive a real DAC would probably be a lot more accurate.

Interesting find ... news from 'way back' ... look at the radio shack mobile phone ad:

news.google.com/…

that phone is pretty rad

800 bucks, what an incredibly low price

3:59 AM

~ iPhone, right?

"antenna extra"

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