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2:41 AM
9 hours ago, by user21820
@Threnody What's the difference between those and "and"? How did you define "both"?
 
 
4 hours later…
7:11 AM
@user21820 I am recently seeing a discussion in the main mathematics chatroom about a question of proof by contradiction and proof by contrapositive.
For reference , here is the question.
 
@Prithubiswas Those people are really rude (1, 2, 3, 4), and ignorant about basic FOL but still arrogantly talk like they know better, despite admitting that they hate logic.
Moreover, that anti-logic gaggle is probably behind the many downvotes I've been getting on logic-related posts on Math SE.
You can flag those chat messages if you agree. I feel like flagging but my flags might be biased.
 
@user21820 I have also seen those messages.
Here is a comment that Ted Shifrin left under that post.
I am not saying these are not equivalent. I am saying that it is not proper form among working mathematicians to prove the contrapositive $\lnot B\implies\lnot A$ by assuming $A$ as well. This is a proof by contradiction of the contrapositive. Of course it's all "logically equivalent." But perhaps my 45 years as a mathematician should earn me an F in formal logic. — Ted Shifrin yesterday
If you want , you could post an answer of your own to clarify on this.
 
@Prithubiswas What do you mean? The question is closed, so I can't post an answer. Besides, Joe already discussed with me in the Logic chat-room and understood the real issue (that the noisy gaggle don't).
 
@user21820 I do agree that those chat messages was a bit too harsh.
 
And of course I'm not interested in teaching a single thing to people who call others "*****".
By the way, the explanation for why they can do mathematics but cannot do basic FOL is this:
Sep 24 at 11:44, by user21820
Well it's naturally your choice, but I will say that it's impossible to get a full grasp of mathematics without knowing basic FOL. Some students manage to unconsciously figure it out, but most never manage it. That's a risk you run if you avoid foundations. Incidentally, professors themselves are slightly susceptible to this same risk. Some of the mathematics professors in my university cannot tell whether they have used the axiom of choice or not, because they do not truly understand ∃elim.
> Some students manage to unconsciously figure it out...
Many of these professors fall into this category!
 
7:25 AM
@user21820 My brain sometimes doesn't work. Forgot that the question was closed. (._.)
 
Haha no problem.
For reference, Joe finally got it here.
So the asker got the answer, and I couldn't care about those who hate logic. =)
 
@user21820 I guess that is the end of it :)
 
@Prithubiswas Exactly. You too already know what is said there (even though you don't yet know programming).
By the way, that reminds me, have you managed to translate the English quine into a Python quine?
 
@user21820 no
 
Do you want to try some more or do you want to see the solution?
 
7:39 AM
I will try some more for now, But probably after my exams are finished. which will be after 1 month.
 
@user21820 Sorry for the dumb question. There is no difference. :)
 
@Threnody Good that you agree! I'm not sure why most logic texts don't emphasize the reliance clearly. Even Hannes' notes gives the case for "∧" by using an equality chain "... = ... = ...", which 'hides' the fact that this is really just an "∧"...
 
@user21820 Yep :) I looked it up. Thank you. Is my notion of a MS correct?
 
7:57 AM
@Threnody Yes it's fine.
 
@user21820 Thanks.
 

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