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8:20 AM
@DanielSank Oh, but this is more a meta thing than something related to the question.
@DanielSank Ha, yes. But note that is talking about the implementation. Also, the claim is just a shot in the dark based on the common idea that hard to implement algorithms have horrible constants.
Although Chazelle's algorithm is interesting enough on its own to be a valuable contribution to the field, note that I'm a more disapproving on the fact that researchers claim that therefore the problem can be solved in O(n) and that they based their algorithms on that fact (there's a randomized version with expected O(n), I believe, but still) while this means that, again, their algorithms will be unimplementable.
This is idolatry of the methods of theoretical algorithm analysis. Just because it usually works, doesn't mean it should be applied uncritically. Hence my question, I think the existence of radically different computing methods might require a critical review of the existing performance measuring methods for computing. Hmm, I should add this to my question.
Also, perhaps I should write an essay titled "Chazelle's algorithm considered harmful" one day, if nothing similar exists.
Or maybe something more neutrally sounding, like "On unimplementable algorithms".
 
 
4 hours later…
12:05 PM
@Discretelizard it's definitely interesting - I remember the days of doing CS where we'd go from asymptotic limits in algorithms, where constants are ignored, to programming exercises, where we got ranked on how fast our program was and suddenly one of the more important things was e.g. the number of memory accesses
 
12:22 PM
I don't have time, but I feel like quantumcomputing.stackexchange.com/a/1200/82 could use an edit.
 
Anyway, I think that some researchers' time would be better spent working on better methods that use reasonable subroutines that are not considered 'unimplementable'.
 
12:42 PM
Also, remember guys: always check if newcomers are experts, even if they make bad posts. If you identify an expert by googling the name (if someone uses the name of an expert, assume expert), you can 'be very very nice to them', as I did here: quantumcomputing.stackexchange.com/questions/171/…
Remember my prediction: no experts, no site! So do anything that is within your reasonable power to ensure experts feel welcome enough to give this site a serious try!
Of course, @AndrewO and his mysterious colleagues try to attract experts. But it is the role of us, seasoned SE users, to ensure the experts stay! But be sure to remain honest. Expertise (or any status whatsoever IMO) is no excuse to misbehave. If an expert misbehaves, warn politely and if misbehavior persists, then well... This site and that expert aren't fit for each-other.
A leaving expert is better than a misbehaving expert, although we desperately need more well-intention-ed, well-behaved (or at least not misbehaving) experts if this site is to succeed.
Hmm. A bit quiet here. I guess these are European hours. Ah well, more reason for me to help and such.
 
@Discretelizard this is the kind of thing that I don't really see on the likes of physics, yet is actually important :)
 
12:58 PM
@Mithrandir24601 Probably, because this only critical during the beta stage. I personally wouldn't bother beyond normal new user courtesy if the site is healthy and running. Physics is big enough to be able to afford to be a bit careless.
 
 
2 hours later…
2:43 PM
quantumcomputing.stackexchange.com/a/1204 "I had been warned about you, Discrete lizard... " Does anyone have any idea how this man could have possibly be warned about me in particular? I guess he means 'people like you', but still, this is a bit of a strange remark.
@DanielBurkhart Edit suggested. Although beware that this user might act strangely in reference to my name.
 
vzn
3:20 PM
@Mithrandir24601 what do you mean "community ads seem to be already sorted out"? have some experience here. they are placed throughout the year on other SE sites based on votes & just need a design made, and target sites. eg Computer Science, Physics, Theoretical Computer Science ... anyone good with graphics? could maybe cook something up... suggest discussing themes, taglines etc
 
@vzn I think it is better to spend our energy to invite and be welcoming to experts outside of SE, as that is what this site needs to succeed. I think the time for community ads is when we enter public beta. In fact, I'm writing up a nice email for one of them right now :) .
But if you sort to the chat posts, you will notice that we are aware how the ads work.
 
vzn
@Discretelizard an email for what? community ads? not sure what emails have to do with that. it takes awhile to get ("better") consensus on ads/ design etc & that can be worked out in this chat room immediately. multiple directions can be pursued in parallel.
 
@vzn ... You might want to read through the rest of the chat after that comment, when I discovered I was a tad wrong there
 
Right now, a few simple, but effective ads have been constructed. @vzn No, emails for getting experts from outside of SE (I'm trying to use the 'invite' option on beta sites to hook a big one)
 
vzn
@Mithrandir24601 re "decided by community"? think your idea about initiating ad prjs/ activity for outreach is excellent & should defn be pursued asap. however speaking from experience, even "high performing" ads on SE only seem to lead to a few "clickthrus" per day. although impressions are relevant too.
@Discretelizard what constructed ads are you referring to?
 
3:34 PM
@Discretelizard If you want help from a professional designer, we at Strangeworks are happy to put our designer on the case.
 
@Discretelizard We've already got a quickly made one on physics and maybe another in CS. If you think it's not a good idea, I'm happy to set up a meta post asking for people's opinions, but it was just a spur of the moment thing in chat. Maybe we should have been more formal about it, but that would have just taken more time
 
@JustinYouens "We at strangeworks" Oh, does another staff member of the mysterious Strangeworks present himself?
 
@Discretelizard Haha, yes. :) Traditional software/product background so will not be of much help with questions, but happy to help out with the site in any way needed.
 
@Mithrandir24601 Nah, I think leaving those on is fine. I mean, I got here via @vzn 's promotion in the CS chat and think I'm having a positive contribution ;) .
 
@Discretelizard The more, the merrier :)
 
vzn
3:36 PM
@Mithrandir24601 after ads are made we need to upvote them collectively past 6v. suggest someone keep track of the links.
 
@vzn already done on physics
 
@JustinYouens Would like to give a quick introduction of yourselves and your role within Strangeworks? You are not unfamiliar with SE it seems, although I must say most of the network is very different from stack overflow.
 
Currently at 2 upvotes on cs
 
@JustinYouens Oh and perhaps you might be able to tell us why you have such a creepy website? :D.
@Mithrandir24601 CS is is slow, as usual. I'll link to the ad in chat, it might help.
 
vzn
@Mithrandir24601 +1 lol thx DS that has got to be one of the most unsexy ads ever made :P
@Discretelizard startup, startup, startup :P
CS community ad link plz star/ upvote cs.meta.stackexchange.com/a/1483/699
 
3:45 PM
@Discretelizard I'm in the CTO role, and have previously worked with whurley in other startups. (Most recently Honest Dollar which Goldman Sachs bought.) As I said before, I'm a software guy, not a physicist. Strangeworks is a small (funded) startup focused on software and systems in the quantum space. The "creepy" website is to fuel conspiracy theorists. ;-) But think of us more as still in stealth mode... our main goal is to help grow the community here and elsewhere.
So to that end, if anyone wants to connect with us to discuss further, don't hesitate. You can reach me at justin@strangeworks.com.
 
@vzn I mean, it sure grabs the attention, but I'm not sure if it helps with their supposed goal of 'explaining quantum'.
@JustinYouens 'Stealth mode' you lot are stealthy indeed! Still, I'm glad to see you getting involved. The best help you can give us is by attracting experts. We'll try our best in welcoming them :D
 
@Discretelizard We have lots of connections with companies and people... we'll be attempting to get most of them involved. But most will have had no SO/SE experience. So your comments about giving a little slack to newbies are on point.
 
@JustinYouens I also like that you start by trying to get a public, community 'controlled' platform of scientists and other experts! This site's beta has been a bit 'accelerated' so that there haven't been many experts able to participate as we usually require. I hope you can use your 'connections' to help us cover the 'gap' here.
 
@Discretelizard We'll do our best. whurley chairs the IEEE Quantum Computing Working Group which helps. As far as the accelerated nature of the channel... we can always hold the public beta back a bit if there's consensus.
@Discretelizard We're not in a hurry, we want to build it right.
 
@JustinYouens When is public currently planned? Might be a good idea to put a question on meta about this near the 'deadline'.
@JustinYouens Good.
 
vzn
3:53 PM
@AndrewO idea, suggest looking at the qubit diagram here and "sexing it up" for an image see the worldbuilding ad posted en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qubit
 
@Discretelizard I'm not sure, though when we discussed it last I believe it was going to be fairly soon. But if you guys feel we're not there yet, you can add more time.
 
@vzn Hey, as long as it works ;) . No offense, but I trust the folks here more in creating 'inviting' ads than the one who designed the strangeworks site ;)
@JustinYouens I heard 11 last time some said it. It's about 10 now I guess?
 
vzn
@Discretelizard their website can be changed quickly and they are listening, they just offered their graphic designer etc what constructive suggestions do you have? on other hand admittedly it does look like their business model is "extremely preliminary" :P
 
@JustinYouens You can check by logging out and trying to join. That should display the 'current' public beta thread.
Oh it seems the entire strangeworks gang is joining! Welcome! Don't be a stranger, please introduce yourselves.
 
vzn
@Discretelizard "works"? actually the clickthru rate seems to be highly related to how engaging the ad is. also there is no tagline etc. it works for now.
 
3:57 PM
Yes, I should clarify... when I offer our designer, I don't mean it would look like Strangeworks design.
 
@vzn Ah sush. It's better than nothing.
 
vzn
@Discretelizard agreed. but want to see it improved.
 
maybe i'll take a look at making a nice ad.
always kinda fun.
 
vzn
@heather cool, if you post (visual) ideas people can comment & pro strangeworks designer might polish em or a favorite up.
 
@JustinYouens Oh good, I think it is best for the designer to either make a meta post or create a separate chatroom.
 
vzn
3:59 PM
@Discretelizard yes it would be very ideal if the designer could get online into this chat room for brainstorming/ dialog etc, but possibly there will not be enough dialog otherwise to req another room.
 
@JustinYouens But hey, people with the names of your colleagues are watching. When do you think they can do more than watching? ;)
@vzn Then a meta post would be ideal, easier to post, more voting, more visibility etc
 
vzn
@Discretelizard am not a perfectionist about ads myself (far from it) and its possible to overthink it but do think we can do better.
 
@vzn Oh sure. Just try and not make it cause confusion like with your blog ad. :P
 
vzn
@Discretelizard lol there is no confusion. :P ps "element of mystery" is sometimes part of good/ effective advertising
 
@vzn There most certainly has been alleged confusion. Right under the post! Although mystery is good for you, the community apparently doesn't like it! ;)
 
4:02 PM
@vzn I was more or less thinking I'd have the designer make something look nicer, once we have the content already there.
 
vzn
@JustinYouens sure thats fine, but it is not easy to reach consensus on SE (about which one to pick). some designers like to look at or juggle a few different ideas etc. dont know how yours works.
 
@vzn Fair enough. I was just thinking about having him create a few variations.
 
@JustinYouens Oh, the designer just creating an ad on their own is ok. If your designer can make something nice in the 'style' of the current site, sure. But your designer is free to ask for feedback anytime. We'll post it if we'll like it!
 
vzn
@JustinYouens honestly there is not a big payoff from the (even top performing) SE ads but maybe the same ad design can be used elsewhere making the effort more worthwhile.
 
waits anxiously until the 3 mysterious watchers reveal themselves from the shadows of their dark website
 
4:05 PM
@Discretelizard Any reference to the size/content we want for these?
 
@JustinYouens Requirements are on the thread for the ads:
10
Q: Community Promotion Ads - 2018

Grace NoteIt's almost February in 2018, which isn't supposed to be the proper time to cycle these, but for this year it'll be once again, so we'll be refreshing the Community Promotion Ads for this year now! What are Community Promotion Ads? Community Promotion Ads are community-vetted advertisements tha...

 
@Discretelizard Thanks.
 
In particular :
### Image requirements

- The image that you create must be 300 x 250 pixels, or double that if high DPI.
- Must be hosted through our standard image uploader (imgur)
- Must be GIF or PNG
- No animated GIFs
- Absolute limit on file size of 150 KB
- If the background of the image is white or partially white, there must be a 1px border (2px if high DPI) surrounding it.
 
@Discretelizard Seems like we should have some content other than just the name of the community?
 
@JustinYouens Yeah, some cool image relating to QC would be good. I like @vzn's idea of making a stylized version of this little Qubit:
 
4:23 PM
@Discretelizard Speaking of which, is the orange box/logo permanent? Does it have any meaning?
 
@JustinYouens I have no idea. I have no idea who designed this website. Probably SE staff.
 
@Discretelizard Yeah, I think so too. Perhaps if we come up with a good stylized bloch sphere or |0> something similar, we should change the branding. (Like how other communities have more topical branding)
 
As long as you don't make it too cre- ahum, 'extravagant' (or creepy, cough) as your own site and run the changes by the community first, I think SE would be more than willing of letting you redesign part of this site.
 
@JustinYouens huh. I thought the orange box was Strangework's idea
 
@JustinYouens Yeah, I think they just did something quickly to let you guys now that they're giving you the 'royal suite' (on some matters, but not on all) . I don't think this design is intended to be final, it is fairly minimally styled compared to other sites.
 
4:29 PM
To be fair, it's vastly better than the normal beta design
 
@Mithrandir24601 Yeah, indeed. The designer at SE probably saw their website and felt intimidated enough to make a design of their own.
@JustinYouens As you might have gathered, it's really the community that's trying to get things running here. We have received fairly little info from SE staff (Other than good old Robert, of course) or Strangeworks on this special arrangement.
 
A comment on the Bloch sphere: it represents a single bit, which has no interesting computational power. It would be nice to come up with a logo that suggest quantum computation.
 
@DanielSank Suggestions?
 
@DanielSank Hmm, thinking big, are we? Alright. So, we want something that is 1) mentions about computation (quantum gates? arrays of qubits?). Let me add some ideas. 2) Interdisciplinary nature of the field, especially the joining of CS and Physics. Perhaps an image split in half, one half representing something quantum physics, the other more representing a quantum algorithm or some theoretical computation model?
Oh hi andrew. You're late to the party this time.
Say,@AndrewO. I've never heard you share your last name. Care to tell?
 
Ochoa
Thought I mentioned it earlier. Sorry.
linkedin.com/in/ajochoa
 
4:41 PM
@AndrewO "Ochoa". Might be something to mention on your profile. Ah well, I guess your site eventually has a nice profile for you. What country is that?
 
@Discretelizard What country is what? I'm from Texas.
 
@AndrewO Oh, I have no idea, I'm not from the US. It sounded south-american to me.
Like Peru or something.
 
The only thing I know about my dad is his last name. lol
Don't really know anything else about Ochoas
@Discretelizard It seems I can't change my display name for another month. I'll fix it then.
We already have a stylized blochsphere
 
@AndrewO You do? Care to show it?
 
Yes, one moment.
Although it's in the "creepy" fashion
Maybe change the red to orange?
 
5:10 PM
@AndrewO Hmm, I think the background could be a bit lighter. Perhaps change it to dark blue, like the current site design. I think someone quick enough with an image editor can do something with this, thanks.
 
vzn
5:21 PM
idea for outreach: it would be really great to build connections/ affiliations with IBM QC experience and also Dwave! among the current world leaders. IBM is up to 50 qubits and they have huge marketing, and very open-science oriented. currently 16 qubits. not sure when the 50 qubits will be open to public. quantumexperience.ng.bluemix.net/qx/experience
@AndrewO like this a lot, suggest the lettering be a bigger/ readable fonts. could do something more elaborate with the vectors/ arrows. could bring out much more of a 3d feel too.
@DanielSank its a logo. the basic idea is visual interest/ attraction, not fidelity to reality. but not bad point. idea, one could show bloch spheres going off to infinity. a cascade. etc maybe some interaction. another idea, quantum circuit diagrams.
 
@vzn don't forget about e.g. Google!
 
We're reaching out.
 
vzn
@JustinYouens SE designers get more involved on "site graduation" which unf is probably a long ways away, but maybe an exception can be made for this "special case"...
@Mithrandir24601 yes ofc! google Martinis lab is world leader in some key ways. DS made it, is already here. Google is "represented". lets see what he can cook up. =D
 
Yes, I hope Sank will invite some experienced users since he's been in the field for 10 years.
 
vzn
(btw its such a pity that this site wasnt mentioned at the google party, huge missed opportunity there...) :( crazy idea: maybe the invitiation list is still available! :P
 
5:32 PM
@vzn there's no maybe about it - they were involved before we even got into private beta :)
 
vzn
@Mithrandir24601 huh? SE site designers? graphic designers? who are you talking about? SE has full time graphic designers who work on sites.
 
@vzn The person that designs the sites did the current design, just for this site, over a week ago
 
Anonymous
2
Q: State of the art in quantum memory

YoungPresently, how much information can a quantum computer store, in how many qubits? What restrictions are there and how does it vary across realizations (efficiency of data storage, ease of reading and writing, etc)?

 
Anonymous
I'm happy someone asked this question
 
Anonymous
I'd like to see some answers, as I am curious about this too :P Other than the talks about QRAM I don't have much idea about this
 
5:35 PM
Although community ads are generally done by the community
@Blue I'd quite like it to be narrowed down a bit though
 
Anonymous
@Mithrandir24601 Like, how? (I know the question body and title don't match. But I'm interested in the question in the title)
 
vzn
@Mithrandir24601 right, its probably a pretty quick/ brief/ minimalist effort so far.
 
Anonymous
7
Q: How does magic state distillation overhead scale compare to quantum advantages?

Emily TyhurstI'm interested in the model of quantum computation by magic state injection, that is where we have access to the Clifford gates, a cheap supply of ancilla qubits in the computational basis, and a few expensive-to-distill magic states (usually those that implement S, T gates). I've found that the ...

 
Anonymous
Emily has been asking some great questions. That's good sign
 
@Blue there are different types of memory and different ways that they can be state of the art
 
Anonymous
5:41 PM
@Mithrandir24601 True, but for that the OP would have to have knowledge about the different types of memory, first of all. I've tried finding an answer to that myself, and haven't got any straightforward list or answer as such
 
Anonymous
That said, yes, I'd surely appreciate some more research effort on the OP's side
 
@Blue I know someone who did exactly that - it took months
 
vzn
6:04 PM
@DanielSank lol you have excellent points and maybe 2020 hindsight would suggest doing things differently. it does seem like if the site is sponsored, more thought/ preparation might go into its launch. however, theres a reason all SE sites start out as/ called beta. SEs overall philosophy wrt beta/ area51 is sink or swim. ultimately its up to the communities to build them, not up to SE (which has little direct capability to do so). glad to hear youre invested in the site success already.
 
@Discretelizard Quantum computing doesn't need gates.
It's going to be tricky to come up with a logo that respects all forms of quantum computation.
 
vzn
@DanielSank who said that was a goal? is it even possible? ps the bloch sphere seems at least better than the orange box representing "whatever" :|
 
Anonymous
6:19 PM
@Discretelizard We can continue the discussion here if you have anything more to say. My comment was before Robert's warning.
 
Anonymous
So it has been long enough to change my mind
 
@Blue Oh, most important stuff has been said by Robert already. But I find the common usage of CW, to 'avoid getting rep' on certain question a bit silly and very inappropriate on what we want to be the shining examples of good answers!
 
Anonymous
@Discretelizard Asking something like "Whats the difference between bits and qubits?" and getting tons of upvotes on it, and turning it into a HNQ is worse, imo.
 
Anonymous
I'd like people getting rep points for well thought out, well researched and interesting questions. There was some reason why we initially wanted to convert FAQ questions to CW.
 
Anonymous
But well, we've dropped the plan anyway
 
6:24 PM
@Blue Why is it bad that are very fundamental and 'elementary' question is featured on HNQ? This is almost the only positive usage of the HNQ for the 'subject website'!
 
Anonymous
@Discretelizard It drives away expert users when they see basic questions on the HNQ. HNQ should be representative of the quality of a site, which unfortunately, it is not
 
And, ok, I understand that communities of scientists (explicitly for experts) in TCS or Math want to mark some questions as unimportant and not muddle their super-serious ranking mechanism. Fine. But for any community that has both experts and non-experts, (i.e. non-experts asking questions), this is IMO simply absurd.
@Blue Didn't you want a high quality FAQ on such 'basic' questions? Why is this suddenly a bad idea when the HNQ gets involved?
 
vzn
@Blue any HNQ question is gold. sites generally dislike their own HNQ questions but as far as driving traffic/ newbies to the site, theyre gold. just try to see them as part of imperfect/ sometimes messy "site outreach". concentrate on making the answers best possible even if the question seems lame.
 
Anonymous
@vzn Just remember that HNQ is representative of the quality of a site. I'm surely not going to visit a math site, which just advertises high quality answers to homework questions or questions whose answers can be found by a cursory glance through Wikipedia.
 
vzn
@Blue HNQs are both representative and not representative. they live in a schroedinger cat/ zen superposition, did you know?
 
Anonymous
6:29 PM
You can already see the severe drop in quality of questions on PSE and Math SE
 
Anonymous
I've stopped visiting those main sites (on a regular basis) since long ago
 
Anonymous
Due to exactly this reason
 
vzn
@Blue if that "quality drop" you speak of is real (not merely subjective), think it should be measurable. is it? there is some hint of stuff like that SE wide (know a ref or two on that myself), but its a SE wide phenomenon.
 
Anonymous
@vzn "measurable"? Just go on the math chat ask the regulars there. Everybody will complain that the quality of questions has dropped
 
vzn
@Blue (long) regulars on sites tend to be jaded. it comes with the territory so to speak.
 
6:33 PM
Oh and one more thing: If you want to witness the true horrors of the HNQ, say no more. Behold exhibit A:
217
A: Why is the unit of image size not Pixel²?

David RicherbyBecause "pixel" isn't a unit of measurement: it's an object. So, just like a wall that's 30 bricks wide by 10 bricks tall contains 300 bricks (not bricks-squared), an image that's 30 pixels wide by 10 pixels tall contains 300 pixels (not pixels-squared).

OVER 200 POINTS FOR POINTS FOR THIS KINDERGARTEN STUFF
 
Anonymous
I could just dig up some homework question statistics from the Data Explorer to prove my point. But I'm feeling lazy.
 
AAAARGH
 
Anonymous
@Discretelizard You seem to be opposing your own point, now.
 
Note that I have nothing against the user posting the answer, but seriously, I would be ashamed if that was my highest rated post. If I already had as much rep as him, I'd delete it to prevent any more upvotes. ;^)
@Blue No, you keep failing to grasp my point. Let me think for a bit to organise my thoughts.
 
@Discretelizard It's not their fault that it's their highest rated answer
It says more about the site than the answerer :/
 
Anonymous
6:36 PM
^
 
1. I agree with your opinion that, all things considered, HNQ's are no 'fun' for the subjects sites.
@Mithrandir24601 HEY IT SAYS MORE ABOUT THE "VISITORS" (i.e. bored programmers from stackoverflow) ABOUT OUR SITE.
 
Sorry, what does HNQ stand for?
 
@Discretelizard And if you want to vote, you need to become a member of the site you want to vote on
 
Anonymous
@Discretelizard Exactly. With that kind of answers and questions you will attract that kind of audience and not experts.
 
Anonymous
You're literally debating your your past self now
 
6:39 PM
@AndrewO Hot network questions - it's the list of popular questions at the side of the list of questions on any SE
 
@Mithrandir24601 Thanks
 
Seriously, no-one seem to get Computer Science. May I remind you of the fact that, on average, most pretty decent answers on popular topics get 20 upvotes max? So when a post gets over 200 votes in a very small sites that means a lot of people vote that usually dont do stuff on the site!
Can we please agree that the 200 votes there are solely the responsibility of the HNQ? Both the user, the multiple people trying to close question and the mods tried to stop it, but failed since some (me as well, in the beginning), thought it was a trivial question that could do no harm. I still agree on the trivial, but the harmful I don't agree on
 
@Discretelizard How did it get on the HNQ in the first place?
 
@Blue PLEASE WAIT until I finish my arguments before you say I am contradicting myself.
@Mithrandir24601 God knows how. If your sites questions usually peek at 4 votes, I guess little is needed to enter the HNQ. Once it was in, the HNQ feeback effect (TM), was enough to do the rest.
Jesus, sit back and let this crazy person tell his rant, ok.
 
@Discretelizard I do get that once it's reached a critical point, it goes on HNQ and shoots off, which can be a nuisance at times. On the other hand, many people who are committed users are aware of this and hopefully don't judge a site by its HNQs
@Discretelizard Awww :/ :P
 
6:45 PM
@Blue So, the 'pixel' question. A massive shitshow beyond recognition. Surely, poor CS must be devastated beyond recognition by all those uninformed people spamming bad questions based on our one HNQ question as per the linked claim , right?
Well, here comes the stinger: No.
 
Anonymous
The CS site isn't really doing very well.
 
Anonymous
The answer rate is quite low
 
Anonymous
Just go through the first few pages
 
From my personal experience, posting behavior of the site was business as usual. And I'm a frequent queue crawler on CS (note that badges are deceptive on sites with low volume)
@Blue I disagree. It is quite, has some problems with low amount of upvotes, but on the whole has the right people making the right decisions for a nice culture for good answering.
 
Anonymous
@Discretelizard "Answer Rate"
 
6:52 PM
@Blue This isn't that important. Better to have one good answer than . Also, CS is so diverse that some questions simply outside the expertise of anyone to answer. Another point why that statistic is bad is that many questions are give 'hints' in the comments, as that is most helpful. Those questions usually go unanswered.
@Blue QUALITY=/=QUANTITY
 
Anonymous
@Discretelizard QUALITY+QUANTITY > QUALITY
 
With a nice culture for answering, I mean that I feel that, in general, the few answers that are posted are good and that my answers are appreciated by the few people that read them. We're not a massive community. But I think it is a healthy one. Much more healthy than math.se for example.
 
Anonymous
A good site should ideally have both high quality answers and a high answer rate
 
Anonymous
Also, most people I've met in real life aren't even aware of its existence
 
Anonymous
Even professional CS guys
 
6:56 PM
@Blue There's also theoretical CS...
 
But I'm not here to argue on some 'justification' for CS. This isn't why I came here or posted a the link to the answer. @Blue Yes and a good site ideally has an answer by Jon Skeet 3 seconds before you post the question, translated in your own language and free icecream and unicorns. But this isn't an ideal world. Please, for the sake of my argument, assume that CS is simply fine. Fine to me, at least.
@Blue I'd like to know what site you think adheres to your 'good site' criteria, but that is really besides the point.
 
Anonymous
@Discretelizard Well, if you're happy with your definition of fine, that's okay with me
 
@Blue Indeed am I. Phew, what a diversion. Okay, were was I... Oh yes. My point is this.
 
Anonymous
@Discretelizard I think MO comes closest. It was a very well planned site. But then I think all the SE sites have much more potential
 
Anonymous
SO is at par I'd say. I like their strong policies regarding homework type questions
 
7:03 PM
All effects, at least the most negative effects of the HNQ, are limited to the question featured! This is a claim that has come from my experience with HNQ questions on unfortunate topics on a rather small site. Sure, the question on the HNQ can quickly become shitstorm central.
Yes, the tourists from the HNQ can leave all their litter behind and make a large mess (posting irrelevant, essentially duplicate answers and upvoting them). But they're tourists. All the locals hate them, but they stick to the hot-spots. The few tourists that do take the effort to 'meet the locals' usually are kind and respectful of the local costums.
@Blue MO is a rather special case. Their community started outside SE, explicitly excludes non-experts and gets 'special' treatment from the beginning. It is incomparable with other SE sites (maybe TCS, but that's only because they also exclude amateurs). SO is the success story. The great classic that started it all! (TM)
@Blue Oh and find it more telling that you say 'MO comes closest". So, no site meets your criteria for 'good'. While I like idealism, I think your standards are clearly unpractical. But then again, they're yours. Just as I think CS is fine, you are free to think no site is good.
Okay, you may dispute my point that HNQ doesn't do much harm beyond the featured posts. But again, this matters little. What matters is what attitude is appropriate to the HNQ. I think that, all in all, the HNQ was a bad idea. I might even be tempted to get back in time and cause the 'mysterious disappearance' of its inventor.
But, the HNQ is clearly there to stay and staff thinks it is a good thing to keep. I suppose that there are some benefits. At least, I browse it myself frequently. I admit it's fun, being a tourist. I try to be civil when visiting foreign countries. I don't think campaigning to ban mass tourism is a constructive approach.
When the 'pixel' debacle occurred on CS, I didn't think "well this site sucks, time to kill HNQ". No. That attitude is non-constructive. No, I thought "How can I leverage the HNQ to the sites advantage?" What if we can learn what ends up in the HNQ and 'seed' the bar with questions we like? This is something that unfortunately is still a side-project without any coming conclusion, but at least a mod seemed to be genuinely interested for an update if it led to anything.
So, I think it is a bit clear what I now think about the HNQ, a rather controversial topic. Now, back to the part that started this entire discussion.
 
7:23 PM
@vzn we have already reached out to IBM, Google, Microsoft, and Dwave. Each has committed to participating. So hopefully we will see them active soon. We've also reached out to Rigetti and a few other startups. If there's anyone, in particular, you'd like to invite please feel free to invite them, or let me know who to invite. The goal here is to build an inclusive community so everyone is welcome. If we miss anyone, please call us out and let us know so we can correct it.
3
 
@AndrewO And whether this is a good thing is controversial to say the least. As you might have gathered.
@whurley To be honest, while I do appreciate you and your company reaching out to all those experts, I would also hope that they don't dominate the site. That is, I'd like scientists that are unaffiliated and may have opposing opinions to those companies or their projects to be just as welcome. I know that you have the best intentions and that you probably want the same, but I think this is important for a healthy community, so I'd like to make this clear.
 
@Discretelizard "already reached out to IBM, Google, Microsoft, and Dwave" blimey, don't complain!
 
@Mithrandir24601 I am serious. If you invite only companies, you risk massive bias.
 
7:43 PM
Discretelizard has already dominated the site. lol
Unfortunately Helmut Katzgraber won't return. I just spoke with him via Skype and he's told some other colleagues I invited not to waste their time.
 
@Discretelizard We have also invited a few dozen people from universities etc including Hidetoshi Nishimori (Tokyo Institute), Michelle Simmons (UNSW), and others. I would encourage you to invite anyone that you feel would help strengthen/diversify the community. We want this to be inclusive so all are welcome.
@AndrewO I will talk to Helmut, that's sad. he would be a great addition to the community as he is very knowledgeable.
@Discretelizard Totally agree, and if you have a list of scientist in mind please invite them, or send their contact to me and I will be happy to reach out. I would like to see all interested groups represented, not just startups, companies, etc. Hopefully working together we can make that a reality.
 
8:51 PM
Hi, I everyone, I am introducing myself to you all. I genuinely look forward to having the opportunity to contribute as much as I can, and am excited about this new initiative by @whurly hoping we will be sharing our knowledge and work together to make QC as understandable to the community as we can.
Kind Regards,
 
@Frrank Thanks for joining, it's great to have you here... but please give credit where credit is due. While we're huge supporters of this, it was an area 51 website far before we came along.
2
 
@whurley aren't we not allowed to go there?? ... lol.. Indeed Kudos to
http://area51.stackexchange.com/ without the effort of these awesome resources and visionary people we wouldn't be here.
 
vzn
@whurley !!! no you! thx for joining! (think you deserve substantial "due credit"!) was musing how amazing itd be if you showed up to the (chat) party :) so how is the reception to your grand/ dramatic unveiling going? and it defn was dramatic! (ps your keynote video was posted in here earlier)
 
@vzn So tell me again...how does one delete that keynote posting? JK
 
vzn
@whurley lol but theres nothing wrong with it...? (full disclosure havent watched it, am going to tonite maybe, esp after this latest big turn of events)
 
9:10 PM
@vzn I was just joking because a) not a physicist and b) still new to the area so obviously a keynote in front of 2400 people was one of my more brilliant ideas (sarcasm). But hey I love quantum computing and want to see as many people get involved as possible... so from that standpoint... mission accomplished. Plus a number of people gave me good notes on where I made a couple of missteps and I've already refactored for the next event.
 
vzn
@whurley yes think its so cool that youre jumping into the fray. re topic, do you have CS bkg? saw that CERN photo, did you have some connection there? dont see any obvious missteps myself so far... always remember "the pioneers are the ones with the arrows in their back" wink :) ... ps am so sure SXSW does not let unqualified speakers in :P
 
@vzn Yes started my career at Apple (R&D), was a principal engineer/master inventor at IBM, and a bunch of other stuff. The CS side I've got... the physics side I will be continually improving on. Also already pulled a few arrows out, good to go for round two.
2
 
vzn
@whurley your background is very diverse was thinking of your finance/ startup bkg also. its a very unusual mix.
googling around (shoulda bookmarked this 1st time!)...
 
vzn
9:44 PM
 
@AndrewO Hmm, while I feel slightly responsible, I feel I have done everything I can to help. (I mean, IMO I said one wrong word, which I took back) But I guess that less of my involvement would have been better. I'll err more on the side of caution with new users, I guess. Oh and do tell Helmut I have no ill will towards him and that I do wish to offer an apology if he so desires (perhaps more detailed) . I mean I do feel a bit responsible for this unfortunate event.
I'm open for 'peace talks', so to speak
@whurley Good, I like your attitude. Although your website shows that your view is to include a diverse background, I'd personally like to hear it "from the horse's mouth", so to speak. Oh and please ignore my potential rudeness. I'm a bit talkative and have strong opinions at times, but I really would like this site to succeed and wish all of you only the best. Do tell me to shut up a bit if you think 'I dominate the site' a much!
My rant above here should actually be structured into a meta post. It's not really something for policy yet, I think, but might be food for thought.
Anyway, sorry for the trouble this silly reptile may or may not have caused. I do wish all the folks of Strangeworks the best of luck with helping this site and their further efforts (whatever those may be)
 
10:31 PM
@Discretelizard Hey sometimes people mistake passion for rude. I try to never do that. I'm extremely happy to have strong opinions as part of the community my friend.
 
vzn
@Discretelizard ??? wondering what this was about. was there some particular topic... scientists are humans & have arguments/ disagreements themselves sometimes... science can involve factions etc... "choose your battles wisely/ you cant win em all™"
 
@vzn Okay, I'm going to state the relevant question so that our relative behaviour is clear: mostly our actions on this post quantumcomputing.stackexchange.com/questions/171/…
I'm going to keep my mouth shut for a change, judge for yourselves.
@whurley Oh, don't worry, I just try to make people clear what my intentions are. I think that's the best way to prevent 'miscommunications', but, well. It doesn't always work.
 
vzn
btw want to share with group, this is one of my fave articles on cyberspace mixed with scientific/ professional community on MathOverflow & hope this group can someday approach something similar. it has a lot of related/ relevant aspects & shows some of the potential for stitching the community together. one of SEs most established/ successful sites. inspiring! aim high! :) The Global Math Commons / Quanta mag
 
Perhaps I can refer to this to show my opinion on some more things: chat.stackexchange.com/transcript/message/43487387#43487387 (Note that I'm not implying this is applicable right now, but it might explain my attitude to some current, past or future events)
 
vzn
@Discretelizard lets keep in mind however that SE conventions/ standards are sometimes complex/ unseen/ unwritten and can be different than other community conventions and some patience will be reqd as the two attempt to merge.
 
10:43 PM
@vzn Yes, I know. Hence my attempts at being civil. My main concern is that the poor fellow would just see comments expressing disbelief and his posts downvoted with no-one explaining why!
@whurley Oh, but if you'd like to mention to him that I'm sorry about the whole event, I'd appreciate it. Don't want any academics holding grudges against me before starting an academic career ;)
 
@Discretelizard If people don't mind me referring to Worldbuilding again, a few of us have decided that one of the easiest and best ways of getting people to stay is by simply welcoming them on their first post. Even if there are things in that post that could do with being fixed. Not everyone'll stay because of it sure, but those that hang around a tiny bit tend to remember it and seem (this is just subjective opinions of people who have directly experienced this)
to be willing to put a little bit more effort into the community, which, ultimately is what SE is about - you're not going to get an answer if no-one's about after all
 
vzn
@Discretelizard one pov/ way to understand HNQs is that what may be quite compelling/ fascinating to outsiders may be boring/ trivial to insiders. its like an information gradient. therefore its a way for insiders to exercise awareness/ understanding/ empathy/ patience for outsiders so to speak.
@AndrewO plz tell him that cyberspace/ social networks can be uncomfortable/ jarring at times esp for people who are new to it. dont take everything personally. the site is not for everyone but we welcome his involvement and are willing to listen how to improve it. btw there is a very great post on the nature of SE/ culture/ philosophy/ dynamics which does not really value any particular questions or answers on average so to speak...
Jeff Atwood on June 13, 2011

In March 2010, we rebalanced our reputation system to favor answers.

While we value good questions (and asking a great question is absolutely an art), we want to explicitly encourage people to provide the best possible answers. Without people interested in providing good answers, the questions are moot. We know that answers have more intrinsic value than questions, and the reputation balance should reflect that.

The question asker already enjoys a substantial benefit beyond reputation gain from upvotes on their question — namely, they get great answers to their question! Thus, the asker shouldn’t need as much reputation gain. …

 
11:11 PM
@Mithrandir24601 Hmm. Perhaps I can welcome them and say that they can ask me for tips to improve their posts or other things if they'd like it. That seems like decent middle ground.
@vzn Good stuff. Let me share something on my own. I think all good rules for dealing with newcomers are implementation of the following principle: be nice and assume good faith. I think Wikipedia's internal policy explains it the best:
Assuming good faith (AGF) is a fundamental principle on Wikipedia. It is the assumption that editors' edits and comments are made in good faith. Most people try to help the project, not hurt it. If this were untrue, a project like Wikipedia would be doomed from the beginning. This guideline does not require that editors continue to assume good faith in the presence of obvious evidence to the contrary (e.g. vandalism). Assuming good faith does not prohibit discussion and criticism. Rather, editors should not attribute the actions being criticized to malice unless there is specific evidence of such...
I mean, they're a site where most of the contributions, counted by the line, are made by first users, total newcomers!
@vzn I'm wondering, what's your opinion on my particular 'example'? An unfortunate case of the HNQ or working as intended?
@Mithrandir24601 I think it bears repeating that Robert Cartaino (in nicer words), mentioned most people on meta have the unfortunate habit of at times being a bunch of rulemaking worrywarts. A more 'hands-off' approach might be a better idea.
@whurley When you say you've "got" the CS side, what do you mean by that? Mean reason I'm asking is that CS is a really broad field!
 
@Discretelizard Yeah, when I say 'simply welcome' I don't mean that we don't say anything else - one of us (not me) will give them a link to the tour and help centre and be like 'have a look round' or 'enjoy' or something. It's also for if something does need fixing with their post, then it's just an actually be nice, as opposed to not rude -
for me, it's a good reminder to tone down the 'this is wrong' and increase the "hey there, I've never heard of this before - would you be able to clarify it? Thanks!". Essentially, I'm just completely agreeing with what you were saying :P
 
vzn
11:28 PM
hi all reddit is a great place for outreach thx for posting this, if anyone has reddit accts it helps to upvote/ comment reddit.com/r/quantum/comments/85ku3a/…
@Discretelizard another interesting/ similar statistic is how many high-voted questions across SE are by low rep users... think its quite substantial but hasnt been measured yet. by my rough estimates, it is a quite substantial effect. it also turns out high rep users tend not to ask much questions. & think the regulars need to think about both effects more sometimes.
@whurley speaking of reddit / site promotion that youtube video defn needs more than 1.5K views dont you think? what are you doing about it? :P reddit.com/r/quantum/comments/85o738/…
 
11:44 PM
WP on the other hand has some curious issues (Anyone can edit basically everything, including comments created by others, remove notices by mods. I can only imagine massively legacy to be the reason for this) and has to rely on bots and hacks to run the site.
@vzn High voted questions by low rep users... Sounds a bit contradictory, don't you think. If their rep is so low then the question isn't voted highly enough ;). Perhaps looking at relatively 'young' accounts or accounts that don't enter chat/meta that perform well is nice. The main difference between SE and Wikipedia is that all feedback on posts and other actions by all users can be done much easier here and the entire system is something that works decently for its purposes.
Whoops, my post order got messed up. Happens sometimes when you have to resubmit everything because of bad internet
@vzn About the not asking thing. Usually, if you're a top user, you research stuff on your own instead of asking questions here. Or you ask really complicated questions noone can answer. That's what I do, at least ;) Perhaps this explains the 'succes' of MO. It ensures most people post both questions and answers.
I mean, think about it. If you're a top user, you can get a top user to answer your question without using SE!
Maybe I should self-answer more often. That is, ask good question I had and solved for myself.
I think this answer has potential, but is getting a bit long and unstructured quantumcomputing.stackexchange.com/a/1187/253 . Perhaps someone more able than me can try to edit.
 

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