Good answer, I would have advised the same but way better coming from someone on the receiving end. Personally I would be even briefer in the note. It may be a cultural or language thing, but I find "I'd like to get to know you better" in this context a bit weird because he doesn't really know her at all. In fact neither really know anything about the other person, so the less he gives her in writing the less she can read into it. "Call me?" or "Text me?" might be more innocuous and have the same effect?

@Astralbee I wasn't even thinking to put that in the note, just say it when you hand the note with the phone number (because that's what happened to me). But yeah, that might work too, although that might leave her a bit confused upon receiving a random note.

@Tinkeringbell Seems to me that all the flirting up to this point has been unspoken... I'd carry that on.

From a personal perspective, I'd discourage interpreting small talk as flirting, since a cashier often engages in small talk for the purpose of 'be nice', and reading to much into it will make you a person I'd prefer not to service. Dropping hints will probably make it too ambiguous, and moreover won't give her a fair chance to decline/make you realize you crossed a boundary. If you really want to, just force the issue, get declined and move on. But that's just my experience/opinion, I prefer a chance to put people in their spot instead of having subtle things I can't do anything against.

@Tinkeringbell I thought about using the method Edgar provided, but reading your last comment let me think the other way again to make it quick and come straight to the point. Thats a real complicated situation..

@J.Doe, this is an example of what can happen even if you do the card thing: interpersonal.stackexchange.com/a/5390/1599. Like I said there, it may be the best way of many evils, but it's not good/recommended either.

If going with the note, I'd write name with possibly a link to a facebook profile along with or even instead of phone number. The bar is usually a lot lower to look up a facebook profile than to text a random number and the facebook gives a quick impression of the guy to the girl as well.

@Belle this seems to me even more creepy, it looks like I've prepared that hours ago and thought nights about how I could do it. But also just giving her a card with my number on it without having a small talk before would look weird imo

@J.Doe As a woman that has been in your cashier's position before, I can tell you that every phone number I have received has ended up in the bin, but I'm still friends with others who gave me their name to look up on Facebook now, 8 years later. But this depends on the person, I guess. Some chatting definitely helps.

@Belle I still cant become comfortable giving out my facebook profile (if I would even got one) to a stranger, but that counts just for me and depends on the person as you said. But if someone is really interested in each other, then it shouldnt actually matter if you give him a phone number or a profile i guess

Tinkeringbell, as a former cashier in the Netherlands, my experience is different from yours. I do live in a small village, though, with a tight community, and if I do not personally know someone, they usually know I am my parents' daughter. I'd argue it can be different in local cultures. @J.Doe I can understand that. You know the situation best and your feelings towards it.

@Belle, I worked retail in a shop that was visited by people I knew and people I didn't. Point remains you don't ask the cashier out when she's at work. Smalltalk is perfectly fine but in no way indicates the cashier is interested in you, it might just be a sign she's doing her job very well.I put all the phone numbers in the bin, and the facebook profiles would have gone right after it ;) I'm curious how your experiences differed from mine, but that would befor chat. You were fine with being asked out?

@Tinkeringbell I'm a little surprised by this answer, but I've never worked in retail, so I don't have a good perspective on it. I also think giving a girl your phone number before she indicates she's interested is a bit forward, and that may be part of it. If OP waited for an opportunity where noone was behind them in line (so it's not overly public), and asked something like "I was wondering if you might be free for a cup of coffee sometime" Would that really be creepy? I'm not trying to disagree with you here, just get some better social bearings (apparently, mine seem to be off).

@LordFarquaad I'd still say don't do it until you actually know her, until she knows you as a very regular customer (which might take half a year-year or more). Even then, asking her puts her on the spot and the power imbalance between having to be nice and wanting to decline forcefully can be so frustrating for her that I'd still say don't ask. It wouldn't be as creepy as a completely random dude asking you out because they misinterpreted the pleasantries that go with working retail for flirting, but it might still be very frustrating for the cashier, more so if you're still a random person.

... and they wonder why guys are getting less confident about asking women out nowadays. This hysterical answer is ridiculous.

@Jez They? Who are "they" that wonder?

many women, for one. the baby boomers too. why are the men of today so scared to approach women? they wonder.

@Jez what's "hysterical" about it? it seems pretty unemotional / well-reasoned to me

@Jez That's a funny way of spelling "and they wonder why guys are expected to respect women's boundaries nowadays"

the hypersensitivity about the possibility of some checkout worker being offended or somehow creeped out. in the olden days people would've just gotten over it because it isn't that hard to get over

yeah ok whatever Azor. i'm well aware that this site is overrun by the far left. if women's boundaries are so strict that guys can't even ask a woman out in a friendly way, i dont want to live in your society. it sounds horrible.

luckily most people don't agree with feminism

@Jez do you see it as a bad thing that people are trying their best to not make others uncomfortable

yes. it stifles human interaction.

@Jez we have fundamentally different worldviews, then

indeed

good luck having a political discussion without making people uncomfortable

@Jez I've done it before

you have to be respectful

and avoid personal insults

nope. not if your political views are controversial enough. people will get uncomfortable as they are taken out of their cozy consensus.

I like to be mindful of others

I don't compromise my beliefs but if I can approach them in such a way to minimize offense I try to do that

if you dont ask that girl out, you're not minimizing offence - you're completely shutting down personal interaction

that's no way to run a society

I don't see it as a bad thing that guys are thinking twice before asking out women who are at work and forced to be nice to customers

well i do

OP isn't being told "don't even talk to her"

he pretty much is

nope

he's being told don't ask her out at work, get to know her via friendly small talk first, because you don't even know if she's interested

don't ask her out at work != don't have any interaction with her at all

a lot of the time guys will ask women out anyway, and a lot of the time women will be delighted to be asked out

@Jez citation needed

so you are acting against those women's interests

I don't think anyone is stopping the women cashiers from giving out their numbers

and that's not the question asked

this is about a guy saying "this cashier looked at me, how do I ask her on a date"

you don't know if this woman is even interested, so you have to consider all possible scenarios

many of which are: she's not interested and doesn't want the attention

see, i tend to do that. and i get nowhere with women because i am massively over-anxious and self-conscious about talking to them. i overanalyze in precisely that way. it is a sure-fire way to be unsuccessful with women and come across as weak and lacking in confidence

every successful guy i know does not worry like me and just talks to women without analyzing

this is about being courteous. you can be self-confident and still think carefully about the situation and how you will approach her.

@Jez I think to be truly successful one has to have good intuition about these things, you don't want to over-analyze everything, as you said you'd never ask anyone out that way, but you don't want to be creep either, because even if you don't care about making people uncomfortable that still doesn't get you what you want

I don't know the guys you know, obviously, but I suspect that are good at reading hints and telling the difference between, "this person is just being nice because job" and "this person seems interested/flirting"

Or maybe they are just hot, everything that hot people do is automatically less creepy, that just the way life works

@Tinkeringbell - I really like this answer (not least because the OP seemed to be reading way too much into things), but I'm not sure I think that "no honest answer...can be given" is totally true. To me - and maybe I am misunderstanding it - that would seem to imply, say, that if the cashier (as seems likely) doesn't have any romantic interest in the poster, and they declined a request for a date, that that answer couldn't be honest.

Or conversely, if by some considerable coincidence the cashier really did want to go on a date with them, and they said so, that that answer couldn't be honest either....

I agree that an honest answer is less likely for the reasons you mentioned, but I don't know that I'd call it impossible....

@Adamant I have edited the posts a little, the sentence now reads:

> it's not about the no/yes, it's about the fact that the likelihood of an honest answer being expected or given in such a situation is extremely low, close to impossible.

Although the moderator seems to agree on 'technically impossible' ;)

@Tinkeringbell Great answer. I'd also add that the other bad part about asking someone out when they're working a retail job is that they can't leave until the end of their shift. I had someone who would hang around after his shopping to chat with me whenever I had no customers in my queue. I spoke to him to be polite, but I felt very uncomfortable the whole time. I started to feel on edge every shift in case he came by.

@Fodder I think that's what this chatroom is for ;) The answer is getting longer every hour :P Lemme see where I can work it in :D

I think this sentence had that part almost covered:

> You have some power (even implied power) over a cashier with your ability to complain and get them reprimanded, or even because she'll be forced to be nice to you during her shifts even after rejecting you should it come to that.

I've now edited in 'during her shifts'.

Another thing I kinda forgot about until now; following this advice while still being nice to her can still work out in your favour. I'm sure it would vary person to person, and in the context of cashier it's not quite as easy; but I knew a few girls who would give out their numbers in some subtle way if they are interested. The big difference is that they were servers, so they would usually leave their numbers on the comment cards, so may not apply well here.

I always found it would be highly unprofessional to do so, but yeah, it might happen...

I basically see things the same way as Jez. If you can't approach a girl working as a cashier, then there is something fundamentally sick and wrong with the society as a whole. Indeed, if the whole point of this advice is to protect the girl from a barrage of unwanted and persistent 'creeps,' it says something about the imagined society the adviser has. Frankly, I fundamentally disapprove of that worldview.

In fact, I see that this advice has, with its rather unhealthy worldview, managed to discourage OP from being forward with his potential future wife, and probably undermined his self confidence. It has managed to instill a certain projection of fear onto society into his own mind and probably corrupted his ability to progress healthily in this regard. I disapprove of the power sites likes this have to affect the young and uninitiated.

@Sentinel just curious, how do you feel about not being able to pet service dogs

The above comments that the girl is unlikely to give an honest answer because she is "forced to be nice" again reflect on Saudi Arabian or Taliban Afghani culture, but not most of the real world. Just some weird politically correct imagined world that happens on sites like this.

@Sentinel potential future wife? That's getting way ahead of ourselves, I think. Odds are she's not even the OP's future girlfriend.

@Sentinel Whoa Charlie!

@Sentinel this is chat, but you still have to Be Nice

@EmC Believe me I love you

@Sentinel lol

@Sentinel If we're talking about reality here...I don't think the Taliban posted any answers to this question. ;)

cool ... power user invasion?

@Sentinel Have you ever worked in the service industry? Your performance is basically measured by if you make a ton of mistakes, and how well you interact with customers. To be good at the job you have to treat everyone like you're happy to see them. You want them to have a positive experience at your establishment; but because of that, you can't safely interpret it as anything more than doing a good job.

I see where Sentinel and Jez are coming from, and it does seem a little... sanitized to not ask her out at all, but even 20 years ago when I was a Cashier, the "hot chashiers" that I worked with got hit on all the time and it was tiring for them.

I should start to build a collection of links to nice fluffy unicorn pictures for occasions like this...

@Adamant Irrelevant. The assumption that when you ask a girl working as a cashier you are unlikely to get any kind of honest answer because her behaviour is completely governed by some kind of authoritarian presence is insulting to the girl and to the societies we partake in. It is simply untrue. It might happen in places like Taliban controlled Afghanistan, or Riyadh, and I am sorry to say, in places like the USA where service industry staff smiles are lies-by-default

@JPhi1618 I totally agree it seems a bit too clean; but at the same time, I'm trying to think of a way to do it that would avoid putting the girl in a bad position. It's hard to think of any, so I'm leaning towards this answers sentiment, that you should just avoid it in general. Too many interpersonal variables to safely suggest anything more.

@Vogel612 I came in to remind everyone to be welcoming, and disagree politely.

@Sentinel You've changed your tune. Before it only happened in the imaginary online world, but now it can happen in the USA too?

@MetaEd I'm somewhat weirded out by the choice of message to flag, though...

@JPhi1618 The situation is slightly different. The OP is 21 and the girl is presumably similar age, and both probably feel prisoners-of-convention. According to OP, the girl was making interested eye contact. A hot cashier is going to avoid it.

@Vogel612 Yes, that had me scratching my head.

Sorry a hot cashier tired of being hit on I mean

@JMac, I think it's that it's not really "putting her in a bad position" - she just has to say no, but, having that happen over and over turns it into a bad position. And it could be that she's timid and saying no does feel uncomfortable.

Btw, I can see the invalid flags...they're not getting accepted.

@JMac, I agree, the right answer is that you can't really ask her out. You can only be nice and hope she reaches out.

Flagging innocuous messages is Not Cool, and I've seen it result in discipline in the past.

Although it is a good way to attract a lot of spectators.

@JPhi1618 That's exactly what I mean by too many interpersonal variables. Some girls could easily brush it off no problem. Some might appreciate the compliment even if not interested. The issue is that not every girl will feel that way. Some will dread having you in their line from then on; even if you don't act any different. That's why in general this advice is probably the most reasonable.

@Sentinel, Yea, the issue is that guys, especially the never had a gfriend types can misread a "welcome to S Mart" smile as "interested eye contact". True that a truly attractive girl will probably have learned to avoid eye contact tho. It's relative I guess.

@JPhi1618 I disagree that you can't ask cashiers out, but in OP's position he has a harder situation, as he later mentioned the location is a Western European style city, where cashier is essentially anonymous. A village cashier would be utterly different. This is central to OP's position, not the general case, which is what we ought to be discussing.

So you're saying since the cashiers in a city are normally anonymous and grey, the fact that he saw any personality in this one means she at least has some interest?

@JPhi1618 Not at all. I am saying that in a large scale hypermarket where the cashier is expected to perform as little more than an automaton, the social expectation is very different from a village, rural or small town situation where the girl on the cashier will typically sit and chat to you about the neighbours and the weather for 20 minutes before the next customer arrives.

Again, I will strongly reiterate, the expectation that you cannot talk to the PERSON on the cashier, for any reason, is a dehumanizing modern phenomenon of corporate sickness reflecting an unhealthy state of a particular society.

@Sentinel Maybe even if they're tired of being hit on, they won't feel it's worth the trouble of avoiding eye contact with every customer?

The thing that I found most questionable was precisely that the querent had so very little to go on to presume attraction.

Is it just me or is it a lot of maybes in this conversation?

Everybody shopping at a big faceless store should have name badges with their name and "Customer". Discuss.

@MetaEd only if the store pays for it. ;)

@MetaEd YES, awesome idea to enable store personal to actually call you by name and not awkwardly work around it with "you"

Even within the same society it can vary, in some slow video stores that I both worked and shopped (rented?) at it was totally normal to chat about movies and such. But it'd super weird in a Safeway

@MetaEd, wait, are you hoping that people actually talk to each other because of that?

@Adamant I mean a personal badge, not one with a store logo on it. Like people used to carry calling cards.

Are you trying to increase amazon sales?

worst case you can have your badge say "Just Browsing"

@MetaEd Only if the government pays for it then.

@Maxim Precisely.

And it has to say "Hello, my name is:"

... Inigo Montoya?

@Adamant No, on THAT badge I have "Inigo Montoya, you killed my father, prepare to die."

jinx

Maybe that ends up turning into a Singles night at Target.

@Sentinel Talk to and ask out are very different things. You can talk to the person all you want. Asking them out is a whole different layer in the problem. Interacting with them is completely expected. Interpreting that interaction as anything more than common courtesy in the service industry is the issue. Just because they treat you well when they're working, doesn't mean you should ask them out there. The answer argues that you shouldn't in that case, and gives good support.

Can we agree that after talking to someone a sufficient number of times about increasingly non-work-related topics, you might be able to ask them out?

@Vogel612 That's a good one. How about "consumer".

@JMac Well presumably if you can talk, there is a chance for some mutual interest which might lead to asking out, like if you chat and the person tells you she is bored and doesn't have much to do after shift, which ends in half hour, that's a pretty clear sign

Or "demand". I admit that might be misunderstood by clerks who haven't studied economics.

Tbh I agree with the general tenor of the top answer. My main objection is that I think an honest answer along the lines "No thanks, sorry" is actually pretty likely

@JMac I disagree. We are all human and if you want to draw the line about what aspect of normal human behaviour is taboo, do so by asking what the cultural norms are.

@JPhi1618 I agree with that for sure. I also think there should be no problem with directly asking someone out, so long as the rejection is taken gracefully, honourably and does not result in any discomfort.

@Maxim Yes, but that's well outside of the scope of what we know here. If they dropped a specific hint like that, it's a lot different than just looking at them when they're in line. In general with the situation this question presented us with, there isn't that level of interaction or hinting.

@Sentinel, but asking someone out can't really be one of the first things you go to. You'd be pretty annoying. Work up to it a litte.

@Sentinel The big concern for me is to be respectful and kind in any social interaction. And social roles are such that what a person intends to be respectful actually creates anxiety. So it's important to recognize when your intentions are not aligned with what will probably actually take place.

@Sentinel because some cultural norms might consider "asking out" something of a taboo in certain contexts...

@Sentinel Because it's better to consider the feelings of everyone involved. That was the point of this answer. You might be able to handle the rejection gracefully; but they might not feel comfortable having to reject you.

@Sentinel In this case, because there was little reason to believe there'd be any chance of success.

@Sentinel the assumptions at the end are the problem: the cashier does not know if you will take a rejection gracefully, and you do not know if the cashier will have any discomfort

They likely misinterpreted the situation.

@JPhi1618 Agreed, probably, depends. In OP's case that's what everyone suggested to him.

Further, a smart person could foresee the likelihood of causing discomfort.

And finally, it does have the potential to put someone in a bind or elicit a dishonest response.

@Adamant And people who have already been in these situations can warn you from firsthand experience that it's generally not a good call.

@MetaEd Also agreed. My beef is with the main advice which was given to OP, not knowing the context or culture, and blanket advising against any such social interaction. It might apply in urban shops in some countries, but it doesn't apply in an equivalent alternative number of contexts

That said, you'll note that @Tinkeringbell did note that if you really want to push the matter, being upfront about it and taking no as an answer immediately is the best strategy

@Tinkeringbell I disagree with Tinkerinbell's interpretation of cashier, because I no longer live in Anglo Saxon type communities and no longer live in cities. Where I live and the societies I experience, people are people and employment role does not force them to live some kind of lie or false projection of themselves.

@JMac Indeed, I'm not disagreeing with this answer, especially since in this case all the OP offered was a "look", that is extremely not a clear sign But I do agree with Sentinel et al that asking out casheers and such should not be categorically prohibited, it can be done, but very very carefully, because creepiness potential is high

@Sentinel that does not appear to match the situation that OP is in, though....

@Sentinel Cool! So in the urban, Anglo-Saxon environment where I live, I'll take their advice....

@Adamant Correct, but only after I clarified things with him. T-Bell's advice was blanket and uninformed.

Sorry @Vogel612

And further, when I visit rural non-Anglo-Saxon communities I'll keep your thoughts in mind.

@Sentinel tip: on the right hand side of messages, if you hover over them, there's a small arrow. That can be used to reply to messages directly. Takes care of the username automatically (and even marks the message as a reply)

and another one: you can edit messages for a few minutes after posting by using "arrow-up"

@Adamant Yes you should take your cultural context into account. As Maxim pointed out above, when going to your video store (if there still are any) feel free in your Western city to talk to the cashier about movies as long as you wish.

@Vogel612 Thanks

asking a girl out ... while on your way out of the store is ok to do and is low-pressure ... but no lingering around the store, whether she agreed to stay in touch or not, none whatsoever. you must be leaving the space ... and I've done this successfully. and girls have stayed in touch. (and some don't.) counting out the OP of this question, before he even tries, seems overly negative and too harsh ... it's nice to take a chance every so often ...

@Sentinel Clarified with whom?

he does have to be ready to find a new shop to go to, if he gets rejected ... and he needs to understand this consequence ...

After enough reading, and having seen this from the beginning, I've reached the point where I feel inclined to chime in.

Chime away!

@D.Hutchinson With the information we're given though, it doesn't seem clear that OP should try. This is especially true when considering that the cashiers feelings should be considered too. The consensus from women in this situation seems to be "if you're unsure, don't try" when it comes to asking them out at work.

I am not fond of the politically correct movement, and the censorship of our lives.

That, however, is not the frame that applies to the situation the OP presented.

I do not support the T'ban, and their kin in repressive control. I do support management's authority to dictate come of their employees behaviors while on the job.

@GypsySpellweaver I don't think anyone is trying to censor lives. They're trying to make suggestions that have the maximum benefit for everyone in the situation. In general that boils down to not asking out employees when you're a customer. It's not always true; but with the information we're given here it seems to be the smart approach. It's not just about OP's feelings; but the cashiers as well.

@JMac It has been part of one user's rhetoric in this room.

@GypsySpellweaver Once I read the third paragraph I understood the context of what you were saying a bit better. I see you weren't trying to challenge the premise of the answer.

question for understanding... who/what is T'ban?

@Vogel612 taliban

Taliban?

ahhh. thanks ;)

@JMac I actually support the answer by @Tinkeringbell. Completely.

it was brought up earlier (in a strained context)

@JMac I know. it was directly after a pretty innocuous message being flagged...

At work employees are supposed to work not engage in personal relationship development.

Doing so can be grounds for dismissal.

OP stated that the clerk is new, hence is likely to be cautious about what might be a dismissal offense to policy.

For the record, I am male. So any gender bias in favor of females is a considered position, not a genetic response, or any such trite dismissal.

In the services industry, especially in larger "chain" type stores, the staff, cashier, stock boy, or cart pusher, are expected to be "friendly" and that includes acting "interested" in the customer when dealing with them.

Throwing this in as a sanity check reddit.com/r/seduction/comments/1v4yud/… You guys need to get real.

Unless the employee says something directly that is non work-related and expresses a literal interest in a relationship, any reading into their actions is like trying to read the Rosetta Stone without knowing any of the languages engraved thereon.

@Sentinel I don't need a sanity check, and this guy is quite real.

@Sentinel I wouldn't call that subreddit a sanity check at all

I don't even dignify such responses with a click. Anyone can 'rant" about 'anything' on many sites, including reddit, with little to no "verification" required.

That is one of the reasons I like SE. Mods can, and do, put out fires and clean up trash when it collects.

Also, looking at one of your previous comments, @Sentinel, you seem to be under the impression that Tinkeringbell is a man...are you sure that's true?

For what it's worth, I just asked a girl here, a complete stranger, sitting next to me in this Manhattan coffee shop; I explained to her our topic in this chatroom, and she said that, as a female cashier, it really depends on the guy and his approach, and that she'd treat it on a case-by-case basis. I said to her that, the community consensus here seems to be that, "no, absolutely not, and that one should never try asking out the lady cashier."

Her response? "I think you need to get out of that chat room ... "

As a reality check, there are likely thousands of millions of planets revolving around millions of stars in an unknown number of galaxies, all revolving around one point in the universe. And not one of us is that point.

The best response in that subreddit was the one about breaking out of "work mode". Anybody in customer service might be putting on their game face that they're paid to put on. And when somebody goes off script or puts that game face aside, you can easily tell the difference.

It is probable, and highly likely, that as a new cashier at the store, the lady is trying to be "good" at her job. Until she verbally indicates otherwise her actions should be interpreted as doing her job.

@D.Hutchinson I'm pretty sure that's what most people are saying. For this situation the advice does seem pretty good. OP doesn't really have much to go off, and goes to the store on a regular basis. There are some suggestions to pull it off if he really wants to go for it; but it's in general a non-ideal plan for a large number of reasons. A big flag was that he was trying to interpret regular customer service behaviour as attraction.

If she truly is interested in the OP, she will find a way to let him know that isn't "open to interpretation". Giving her f'book name, cell number, whatever. Or, saying "I get off at 3 P.M..

@D.Hutchinson I don't think there is that sort of consensus at all, the consensus is that this OP should not ask out that specific cashier that he doesn't really know based on one look

I see ...

Since human eyes are so close together, and do not operate independently from each other, it is often very difficult to determine what someone is looking at. from a distance of 5 feet the field of view can span a distance of 5 feet to either side of center, and the depth can be much wider. If there's a window to the car park behind the person, the view could entail dozens of cars and lots of space. The subject of the look could be any number of people, or things, not the OP.

The question, "You looking at me?" has real grounds for existence. One cannot know with certainty that someone is looking at them otherwise.

My "answer" to the instant question, if it was acceptable to the site standards, would be "Don't". I might have added a second line saying "Let her make the first move." Then again, I might not have added that either.

I think the current top answer is, to my mind, too lenient. allowing that there might be a way to ask and still be okay. I don't think there is.

What some users have likely missed in reporting "I did it with no problem" is the looks and opinions of those who witnessed the incident.

@GypsySpellweaver I'd say it's really good as is. There arguably is a way, and the method she suggested is probably the best. She gave plenty of reasons why that is still not a good idea. The fact is, if OP wanted to do it, they can. As a person it's not like it's forbidden; just as stated in the answer, you shouldn't. It did provide him an answer; but also challenged the entire frame. That's how it should work here.

@JMac Hence: