English Language Learners

Damkerng T.

12:00 AM

Oh!

Anonymous

Tolkien wrote about worms.

Damkerng T.

So a dragon is a worm!

I remember that I was able to read rune letters (in Ultima). That was long before I realized that it's Tolkien's Elven.

Anonymous

The first meaning the OED lists is "A serpent, snake, dragon. Now only arch."

Anonymous

@DamkerngT. Oh, Ultima, the computer game?

Damkerng T.

Yes!

Come to think of it, worms and snakes look sort of alike.

Anonymous

12:05 AM

Then they list "Any animal that creeps or crawls; a reptile; an insect."

Damkerng T.

Ahh

CopperKettle

good night, Snailboat, Damkerng!

Damkerng T.

Good night!

Anonymous

Rest well, Kettle of Copper!

Anonymous

The markedness question is a great one, by the way.

Anonymous

12:08 AM

1

Q: Why how 'old' are you, not how 'young' are you?

English (the language) always gives an impression of being positive. For example, when little kids are making mistake, it will refer to as 'being creative' instead of 'being incorrect'. So as my title, isn't it the opposite? I assume asking how "old" is not very polite, so I usually avoid it a...

terminology

Anonymous

I look forward to reading multiple answers.

Damkerng T.

I guess "How short are you?" would have the same effect. :P

Anonymous

That one's possible too, though marked.

Anonymous

It might have a rather negative reaction :-)

Damkerng T.

Indeed!

Anonymous

12:11 AM

When I was younger, I'd sometimes ask people "How old aren't you?" when I wanted to express that they were acting childish

Anonymous

This almost never worked―it confused everyone!

Anonymous

So I gave up on it. (I also gave up on calling people childish at some point, more generally :-)

Anonymous

Sometimes I feel like I can liken experiences like that with my native language to those I've had with foreign languages

Damkerng T.

I'm confused by that question!

Anonymous

And it makes me think once more that they're not truly different categorically

Anonymous

12:13 AM

See? No exceptions.

Anonymous

Yesterday I misheard my housemate. She said mazola, but I heard bazola!

Damkerng T.

It sounds like a question that makes people pause and think.

Anonymous

And I told her I didn't know what that was.

Damkerng T.

"How old aren't you?" "I'm not that old!"

Anonymous

Sometimes people responded with things like "I'm not, uh, ninety-four?"

Damkerng T.

12:15 AM

Hehe!

@snailboat Bazola sounds rather Japanese!

Anonymous

@DamkerngT. Not the way she pronounced it! :-)

Damkerng T.

(Macross 7 has a character named Bazara.)

Anonymous

It could be, though! /bazora/!

Damkerng T.

Oh! Maybe it's Bazora!

Anonymous

Though Proto-Japonic lacked voiced obstruents in word-initial position

Anonymous

12:17 AM

Modern Japanese examples generally have some secondary source

Anonymous

For example, you've no doubt heard de gozaru

Anonymous

Since I know you watch those shows with swordsmen and such :-)

Damkerng T.

I'm not sure I've heard it.

Oh, that!

Anonymous

Oh, really? I felt sure Katana-gatari would have had at least one :-)

Anonymous

Or Rurōni Kenshin, but I can't remember if you watched that or not.

Damkerng T.

12:19 AM

@snailboat I didn't really watch it. I read it, in a translated version.

Anonymous

Oh, I see!

Damkerng T.

De gozaru ne has a lot of hits on Google!

A-ha! So he talked in an older dialect!

I think in some translated versions, he called himself something approx. "this insignificant me".

Anonymous

Hello!

Anonymous

I couldn't connect to chat for a few minutes.

Anonymous

@DamkerngT. That's probably sessha.

Anonymous

12:31 AM

@DamkerngT. It's yakuwari-go 'role words / role speech'

Anonymous

De gozaru is no longer part of Modern Japanese

Anonymous

Gozaru survives only in its polite form gozaimasu

Damkerng T.

Ahh

Anonymous

But it's used as a deliberate archaism fairly often by characters who are supposed to sound like samurai

Damkerng T.

Google Translate won't translate 拙者!

Anonymous

12:36 AM

拙者 is indeed the correct kanji for that word

Damkerng T.

(But it suggests these: 私, 私儀, 僕, 我, 我輩, 拙者)

Anonymous

It's a Sino-Japanese word, so if you wanted to translate it literally into native Japanese, you could replace 拙 (the adjectival portion) with 拙い tsutanai 'clumsy, unskillful' and 者 sha with 者 mono 'person'

Damkerng T.

Oh! 拙い shows his humbleness, I believe.

Anonymous

Yes, that's right

Anonymous

@DamkerngT. 私儀 seems to be the odd one out in that list

Anonymous

12:48 AM

That's another archaic word (Japanese has many archaic pronouns)

Anonymous

拙者, I mean.

Anonymous

I don't know how to describe 私儀. (I haven't seen it enough.) It appears in letter writing… No one ever says it as far as I'm aware

Anonymous

Though I could be wrong :-)

Damkerng T.

Interesting! A written-only word!

Anonymous

Well, when was the last time you said "to whom it may concern"? :-)

Anonymous

12:54 AM

Anyway, we can regard 私儀 as a phrase.

Damkerng T.

nods

Anonymous

That's how Martin describes it. He considers 儀 (gi) a postnominal particle.

Anonymous

It's not unusual for written language and spoken language to differ

Damkerng T.

On C-SPAN, I've heard, "Let it be known," often enough!

Anonymous

Formal!

Anonymous

12:57 AM

I think people often conflate the spoken-written axis with the informal-formal axis.

Damkerng T.

nods

Anonymous

You might say the passé simple is used only in written language.

Anonymous

But people use it occasionally in formal speech.

Anonymous

So what does that make it?

Anonymous

Some linguists say that these aren't really "speech", just written language read aloud :-)

Damkerng T.

12:58 AM

Hmm...

Anonymous

That's always troubled me a bit, even if I can see their point

Damkerng T.

So it's not a surprise that people mistake the written language as formal.

Anonymous

People definitely do that.

Anonymous

It depends on the language, too.

Anonymous

In Japanese, for example, it's common to talk about written language versus spoken language

Anonymous

1:00 AM

You might say kara is spoken, yori is written

Anonymous

But, well, people say yori and write kara, so . . .

Anonymous

How about Thai? Do people make a strong distinction between the written and spoken languages?

Damkerng T.

Back when I was quite young, we didn't even care about the grammar of spoken Thai.

When we discussed grammar, it automatically implied written Thai, and it was usually formal.

Anonymous

Ah

Damkerng T.

(Or at least semi-formal.)

Anonymous

1:01 AM

People make the same mistake in English

Anonymous

People often think more formal language is somehow more grammatical

Damkerng T.

I think, if I don't misremember it, some teachers called spoken language a convenient language.

And the tone of convenient implied that no rules got involved.

@snailboat I think it was the case in our schools!

But things have changed a lot. To my surprise, this generation doesn't learn grammar in their schools, just like in the US!

Anonymous

Oh! Grammar is passé!

Damkerng T.

Sadly!

Anonymous

1:22 AM

Well, people seem to think learning grammar is useless.

Anonymous

But I like it! Grammar is fun!

Anonymous

And it seems useful to me, even if all those other people find no purpose in it :-)

Damkerng T.

1:35 AM

Without grammar, I think it's hard for most people to write well-formed complex sentences.

Anonymous

I think that when you study grammar, it tends to become more useful over time—you come to internalize it and can, in the common case, see structure automatically

Anonymous

Though there are always cases that are harder to analyze!

Anonymous

And of course there's always more to learn

Anonymous

But I guess if there weren't, it wouldn't be fun anymore!

Anonymous

2:42 AM

Ooh, a 500-point bounty—hopefully that will attract a correct answer

Anonymous

3:53 AM

0

Q: How is it grammatical that 'begrudge' admits three objects?

Source, penultimate para: p 2 of 2, 'Against YA', by Ruth Graham, slate.com 1. I do not begrudge young adults themselves their renaissance of fiction. begrudge [with two objects] = D1. Envy (someone) the possession or enjoyment of (something) I`m guessing D1 (D for Definition) above a...

grammar grammaticality

Anonymous

A question about themselves, or about parsing, or maybe about both!

Man_From_India

12:06 PM

1

Q: Should I add "rather" in the following sentence?

Example: I wouldn't call what I feel happiness, but (rather) an ongoing acceptance of unhappiness. Should I include the word rather? (Or replace but with it?)

grammar adverbs

I am concerned with the sentence that OP quoted. There is nothing wrong, but still I believe whether we can rewite it the other way?

The quoted sentence by OP is - I wouldn't call what I feel happiness

What if we write it this way - What I feel, I wouldn't call it happiness. I am not sure, that's why I am asking here. Obviously what I feel refers back to it, but is it possible for that what-clause to have a front position with it attached to nothing.

CopperKettle

@Man_From_India - I'm peeking in for a sec to say that you did some great answer to the adjective/verb question!

BBL

Man_From_India

@CopperKettle Which one? :O can't remember :)

CopperKettle

12:28 PM

@Man_From_India My bad! It was Khan! I'm sorry (0:

1

Q: Is "attached" is a verb or an adjective?

Could you please let me know that the "attached" is a 'verb' or an 'adjective' in the sentence given below. Please print the two forms attached in this email. If possible then please give a justification.

verb adjectives

Man_From_India

@CopperKettle Oh!! NO problem :)

@CopperKettle I have a question here

If one sentence is - I wouldn't call what I feel happiness, can we rewrite it this way - What I feel, I wouldn't call it happiness?

CopperKettle

@Man_From_India - I don't know.. I'm not sure

I remember reading a Wikipedia article on this type of construction, but I've forgotten the term

It's not appositive..

I'm afraid you'd have either to wait for snailboat or ask a question at ELL (0:

But I would say that in speech this sentence would sound good to me

Man_From_India

It's not appositive, I also think so. Let's wait for him here. Otherwise it more of a proofreading question :)

CopperKettle

For her (0:

Man_From_India

Oh my god!!! :O so far I have been in ELL I always thought snailboat is a male :D :D

CopperKettle

12:42 PM

It happens. (0: She is probably asleep now, it's only 4:42 AM in Los Gatos

24timezones.com/usa_time/ca_santa_clara/los_gatos.htm

Man_From_India

Okay...I am ready to wait for some good answer :)

CopperKettle

(0:

Anonymous

1:01 PM

I'm not actually asleep, but I should be! :-)

Man_From_India

@snailboat welcome...if u r not tired can u please answer it?

If one sentence is - I wouldn't call what I feel happiness, can we rewrite it this way - What I feel, I wouldn't call it happiness?

Hello @StoneyB

Anonymous

I can respond in a few

Anonymous

1:46 PM

I'm awake because I have a headache, so thinking is a little bit more difficult than usual ;-)

Anonymous

@Man_From_India I think there are two alternatives with what I feel fronted: with and without it

Anonymous

> I wouldn't call [what I feel] happiness.
> What I feel, I wouldn't call ＿＿ happiness.
> What I feel, I wouldn't call it happiness.

Man_From_India

Ahh I see....Now I remember in a book titled Alive by Paul Read I found a sentence like this. Not exactly the wordings of the book but similar - What we don't get, we make it up in dreams.

Anonymous

My preference is for the version without it

Man_From_India

@snailboat okay, thanks...

Anonymous

1:52 PM

The version with a gap (indicated here by ＿＿ but usually not written down) is an example of topicalization

Anonymous

The version with the pronoun it, which is co-referential with the fronted constituent, is an example of left dislocation

Anonymous

Topicalization and left-dislocation are two different processes you can apply to a sentence.

Man_From_India

@snailboat Thank you for the grammatical terms also :)

Anonymous

There's a good deal of discussion to be had about when one or the other is appropriate

user116848

Hi

Man_From_India

2:02 PM

Hi @Farooq

@snailboat are u talking about that question?

user116848

@Man_From_India Hi!

CopperKettle

4:02 PM

I wonder if it is really an adjective or a passive construction..

1

Q: "Two forms attached to the email": is "attached" a verb or an adjective?

Could you please let me know that the "attached" is a 'verb' or an 'adjective' in the sentence given below. Please print the two forms attached to this email. If possible then please give a justification.

verb adjectives passive-voice reduced-relative-clause

Man_From_India

4:26 PM

@CopperKettle It's about how you want to reach there. Both are possible. In the sentence - Two forms are attached - attached is a verb participating in passive construction, or it can be understood as a participle (adjective). This sentence has the same pattern like this sentence - Two forms are identical (identical* is an adjective). The attached documents are corrupt, here attached is a participle (adjective)

Hanaa

4:41 PM

Hello everybody

Damkerng T.

4:51 PM

@Hanaa Hello!

Singh

Can I ask a question which is not particularly about English language?

Damkerng T.

Of course!

Singh

Thank you Sir.
My question is about novel reading.
In our school we have to go through a novel(this year it is The Invisible Man).
My problem is that I love it to read but when some question is asked to me then I fail to answer that.
So is there any particular way of reading the novel so that I can get good grades?

Damkerng T.

I guess that those questions ask about the story, right?

Man_From_India

@Singh Why is that so? Do you have any problem understanding the sentences?

Damkerng T.

5:03 PM

Hmm... @Man_From_India But he said that he loves it.

Man_From_India

@DamkerngT. I think he himself have to analyze why and in what kind of questions he fails. There are different scenarios. One easy one: He fails to understand complex sentences. Solution: He might ask here. Another thing: He might have difficulties when the author presents deep emotional stages of a characters uning some flowry language. Same solution can be applied.

Damkerng T.

Could be. Though I think, generally, this problem could be solved by reading faster, not deeper.

(I assume that the reader doesn't have any trouble with reading in their first language.)

Man_From_India

That is a way, but still I believe if you read "deeper" you actually will start to learn the language and in turn will learn to write well.

Singh

sir I understand then sentences but the problem is that when, suppose the question is that write the character sketch of Griffin then I fail to answer these types of questions. I mean that I am unable to filter the characteristics of a particular character. So how can I remember these kind of things?
I have read one biography of Sir Steve Jobs to get some motivation, I loved that and I remember every thing from that. But when it comes to the syllabus novel I fail to do the same.

Man_From_India

I have to be off today...good night :)

Damkerng T.

5:12 PM

G'night!

@Singh Interesting. Could you give me some ideas about what you can remember about Steve Jobs from what you've read?

Singh

@DamkerngT. Sir you are right. The biography of Steve Jobs I have read in Hindi(my mother tongue)

Damkerng T.

Ah, but those novels you have to read in your courses are English, I believe?

Singh

Yes Sir

Damkerng T.

How fast can you read in English? Let's say, compared to your first language.

Singh

I have never taken the test of reading speed but in comparison to the first language it is almost the same because from nursery we are learning it.

Damkerng T.

5:18 PM

Okay, so I take it that you don't have much trouble reading English. (Generally speaking)

Could you tell me some examples of the questions you think difficult to answer in your assignments?

Oh, you've mentioned "write the character sketch of Griffin then I fail to answer these types of questions. I mean that I am unable to filter the characteristics of a particular character."

Let's say, would you think such questions difficult if you could answer in your first language?

Singh

I novels some difficult words are given which is a problem for me because each time I have to look the meaning of that word in the dictionary and then continue to read the novel, this way I get distracted from my actual novel and at last I understand the meanings of those words but I fail to summarize what I have just read.

Hanaa

I think that he shoulf read first about characters types . Actually there are many types

Damkerng T.

There are several ways to fix that. I remember I usually fixed it by reading faster.

Hanaa

Don't trandlate the novel word by word

Damkerng T.

This is the fix of a bird. A frog would fix it differently.

(In case you might got interested, try googling for "birds and frogs".)

Singh

5:24 PM

Sir I can answer the question in my mother tongue but when it comes to writing then face problem even in my mother tongue

Damkerng T.

@Singh Oh, then you got another kind of problem. It's not about reading. It's about writing.

Wait, even in your mother tongue?

(confused)

Singh

yes, I'm confused

Damkerng T.

Hmm... so you can answer the questions, but you can't write it out, even in your mother tongue?

Singh

yes Sir

Damkerng T.

Ahh

The fix is easy. Write more, either in your mother tongue or in English.

It will help either way.

Hanaa

5:28 PM

Just read fast to get the meaning of the novel . I mean try to understand the meaning of sentences even there is a word you don't know its translation just skip it and concentrate on the meaning of the paragraph @Singh

Damkerng T.

@Hanaa But his problem seems not to be about reading, if I understand him correctly.

Singh

@DamkerngT. Sir do you mean to say that I should write whatever I understand after each paragraph?

Damkerng T.

I meant, write more, habitually.

Hanaa

He said that when he translates words, he loses the meaning

Damkerng T.

@Singh Do you blog, or write your own journal?

Hanaa

5:32 PM

@DamkerngT. I have a question

Damkerng T.

@Hanaa Interesting. I think I might miss that. Which direction of translation is the problem?

@Hanaa I'm listening! :-)

Singh

No Sir

Hanaa

Translation of word by word is a problem

Damkerng T.

@Singh You should start writing anything you want to write. Note taking helps. Writing about yourself helps. Blogging helps.

@Hanaa When reading? (So the translation is from English to Hindi?)

Hanaa

No it is from English to Hindi

Damkerng T.

5:35 PM

@Hanaa Oh, true! Sorry!

Hanaa

@Singh may i ask quedtions if you have finished?

Questions

Singh

Sir, for example when I do Physics then at that time whatever I understand I write it in a notebook.
I read in a research paper that for any particular work if your more senses work at a time then this way increases your concentration.

@Hanaa yes

Damkerng T.

Yes, note taking is really useful!

Usually, when someone has a problem with writing composition in a second language, the two main causes are: (second) language competency, and organizing one's own thoughts

Hanaa

What does the word "trade-offs mean?

Damkerng T.

It usually comes down to one or the other, or maybe both.

@Hanaa What is the full sentence?

Oh, maybe your question was meant for Singh.

Singh

5:41 PM

it means compromise

Hanaa

The trade-offs between the infrastructure costs and the benefits on the city

Damkerng T.

@Hanaa Is this for Singh, as an exercise?

Hanaa

No

Damkerng T.

Oh!

Hanaa

It is a question for discussion

Damkerng T.

5:44 PM

Is this your own sentence?

Hanaa

No

It is a stc taken from an article

Damkerng T.

(I wonder why they wrote "trade-offs" not "trade-off".)

Hanaa

I search for the academic word that has the same meaning of trade-off

Allo!

Damkerng T.

It's as Singh said. (BTW, without good context, I'd say that trade-offs there is unlikely, because they conceptualized the things to be traded off as only two groups.)

It (trade off) is usually used in the context where you can't have both (or more) options.

So you have to trade one option with another (or others).

Hanaa

Do you mean to choose?

Damkerng T.

5:51 PM

Yes.

It's the situation where you have to choose.

Like I want to have a big, big car, but I don't want to spend too much money on it.

So I have to trade off between the money I will spend, and the size of the car I will get.

(Obviously, I can't have a Mercedes-Benz for free!)

Hanaa

It is compromise as@Singh has mentioned

Damkerng T.

That's right.

Singh

Do this statement don't mean that:
the infrastructure costs and the benefits on the city these two things are dependent on each other

Damkerng T.

I'd say they are related.

Saying "dependent" might be passable, but I think it's not as good.

Hanaa

Thank you so much@DamkerngT. and@Singh

Damkerng T.

5:55 PM

(Btw, "Doesn't this statement mean:")

It's our pleasure. (I think Singh would agree with me.)

Hanaa

I have another question

Damkerng T.

Yes?

Singh

I agree with you Sir@DamkerngT.

Hanaa

Is it correct to say: " i have assigned the activity from myself not copied it from a book

Damkerng T.

That sounds odd.

Hanaa

5:58 PM

I will explain

I am a student of english and was asked by our teacher to make a presentation about. multiple intelligences

Damkerng T.

Uh-huh?

Hanaa

I have chosen an activity of visual intelligence

Damkerng T.

nods

So, you mean you chose the activity yourself?

Hanaa

When i finished the tracher said to me: i don"T see your personal touch

Damkerng T.

Oh!

Hanaa

6:04 PM

I replied: i have taken only a small idea from the book but the rest activity is from myself

Damkerng T.

"but the rest is my own" is more concise and to the point.

Hanaa

The rest is my own work

Nice

Damkerng T.

Or you could say "Most of it is my idea. I only borrowed some supporting ideas from the book".

Hanaa

Great!

Damkerng T.

In any case, keep you tone as polite as possible when talking to your teacher. ;-)

Hanaa

6:07 PM

Sure ^__^

Damkerng T.

Adding, "I'm sorry (sir/ma'am)," would do no harm. :-)

Singh

@DamkerngT. yes that is the most important thing when talking to a teacher.

Damkerng T.

Exactly!

Hanaa

My teacher like me bcz of my politeness and sense of humor

Likes

Damkerng T.

Yay! :-)

Hanaa

6:11 PM

I have another encquiry

Damkerng T.

I'm listening!

Hanaa

The stuff used to stick things together

Not the glue

glue?

No

adhesive?

6:15 PM

I don't know

Damkerng T.

A picture wold be helpful! :-)

Hanaa

It is round and transparent

Singh

@DamkerngT. adhesive is a property of a material

Damkerng T.

@Singh Adhesive is a noun, too.

Hanaa

Btw u can cut it by the siscors

Damkerng T.

6:16 PM

@Hanaa Something like 3M Scotch Tape?

Hanaa

Exactly

Damkerng T.

It's a kind of tape!

Hanaa

That is it scotch

Damkerng T.

Scotch Tape is a brand (I think). A more common term is adhesive tape.

Hanaa

I was not sure that scotch exists in English too

Damkerng T.

6:18 PM

Saying Scotch Tape for this kind of tape is like saying google to mean "search".

Some people do it, regularly. :-)

Hanaa

Adhesive tape. ok

I am going to eat biscuit with milk

Damkerng T.

That sounds nice!

Hanaa

Oh thanks

Do i say i eat.biscuit with milk or drink milk with biscuit

Damkerng T.

That's tricky, isn't it!?

Hanaa

I am confused

Damkerng T.

6:21 PM

I'd say eat. But you can avoid the problem by saying have.

Oh, magic tape is not a common name! It's a brand name, too!

(I always thought it's a kind of tape.)

Hanaa

So ,see you later. I'm going to have biscuits with milk

Bye

Damkerng T.

See you around! :-)

Hanaa

7:35 PM

I came back

Hello

Anonymous

9:17 PM

@DamkerngT. Probably is! But it's generic in my dialect

Ilan

Hello @snailboat

Ilan

9:35 PM

@snailboat are you available?

CopperKettle

@snailboat We say just скотч (scotch), not deigning even to add "tape" (0: ... Good evening!

Ilan

hi

CopperKettle

Hi, Ilan!

Iplodman

Hey everyone!

How are we all? :)

Ilan

:)

CopperKettle

9:45 PM

Word of the day: "skim-milk marriage"

Ilan

Guys, I should ask a question :)

CopperKettle

@Iplodman Hi! We all are fine!

Iplodman

@CopperKettle Good to hear it! :)

CopperKettle

@Ilan Ask if you should (0:

Ilan

@CopperKettle Let say some firm sold 10k bottles in 2007.

Iplodman

9:47 PM

Although, since this is ELL, I hope you don't mind me pointing out that it should be "we are all fine" :))

Ilan

I want to write this fact starting with "By 2007"

CopperKettle

@Iplodman (0:

Ilan

which time tense should I use then?

CopperKettle

By 2007, the company's bottle sales totaled 10 thousand items

Ilan

By 2007, the sales of the company reached 10k or HAVE REACHED?

past vs present perfect?

Iplodman

9:48 PM

"The firm's sales had reached..."

CopperKettle

@Ilan We don't use the present perfect with precize dates

Ilan

by this is not precise

CopperKettle

My guess is that Simple Past will do too... maybe Snailboat will correct me

Ilan

it is like "around"

I read the pdf of some IELTS examiner and he says that we should use present perfect

CopperKettle

@Ilan Maybe you've misread it.

Ilan

9:50 PM

"misread" is an epidemic word for 2 days

past perfect

:)

you're right

CopperKettle

@Ilan The text says Past Perfect, not Present Perfect

Ilan

I missed it

:(

but let me to show you another example of something that I don't understand :)

CopperKettle

okay

Ilan

Kill me! I dont get it

CopperKettle

@Ilan I see no problem in this, if you're not preparing to be an English teacher or a translator (0:

Iplodman

9:53 PM

Lets take your bottles example.

CopperKettle

"bottle sales dipped at 2000 items in January, just to rebound in February to their previous level"

Iplodman

Say the bottle sold 2k bottles in years 1 to 4. Then in year 5, they only sold 1k. Then in years 6 to 8 they sold 2k again.

You could say that their sales dipped in year 5.

Ilan

but if the period ended at year 5

can I still use this verb?

CopperKettle

But I wonder why "dipped at 2000 items". Does it mean the sales fell to the level of 2000 items?

Iplodman

"Sales dipped on their last year of business"

That works.

Ilan

9:56 PM

@CopperKettle I wonder the same thing!

Anonymous

There are zero examples of this pattern in COCA

Ilan

I did not meet any suggestion about further movement related to "dipped"

CopperKettle

@Ilan "wonder about the same thing"

Iplodman

@CopperKettle As a native speaker, I'd interpret that as "when the business started selling 2k a year, their business sold less after that".

Ilan

:(

Iplodman

9:57 PM

@CopperKettle His sentence worked, actually ;P

Ilan

@Iplodman a m a z i n g

Iplodman

It's like saying "I think the same thing"

CopperKettle

@Iplodman Does wonder take direct objects?

Live and learn! Thanks, @Iplodman!

Iplodman

@CopperKettle I have no idea what that means, but I don't think that it's wrong ;P

CopperKettle

BBL

@Iplodman heh

Iplodman

9:58 PM

Cya later ;P

Ilan

@Iplodman so is the citation I've posted right?

does it mean that something ROSE again?

Iplodman

It implies that something rose again, but I wouldn't use it strictly like that.

Ilan

hm

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