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7:41 AM
@nonagon What do you want to show by removing earlier upvotes and accept?
8:18 AM
@007 the accept isn't gone. It's probably a system hiccup
8:38 AM
@007 firstly I didn't blindly downvote . If I'd have , I'd have downvoted on all of your questions and answers and not specifically those 5 . You just started nagging about it , so I didn't bother with it , since you're so so concerned about your rep here . And I never unaccepted and unvote your answer . The answer was absolutely correct , the system of SE messed up or probably one of the mods did it by mistake .
I am no enemy of yours , its better we don't interact here at all . You first falsely got my downvotes deleted . And then now you're over reacting on a SE system failure . Calm down .
And look at your childish behaviour , you down voted my question for no reason . And I can't remove earlier upvotes even if I want to since they have been locked :)
Now I am not even able to upvote on that question , as soon as I do it again gets back to 0 . There is a system problem . And anyways , you can't tell me what to do here . This was your statement once . So now just stop panicking over a couple of down votes . Ok nitesh .
2 hours later…
10:31 AM
3 hours later…
1:34 PM
@nonagon From what I see here, it's been you acting superior, condescending, and childish. If you have a problem with 007, then avoid interacting with him. Don't keep locking horns over trivialities
I agree that one shouldn't get concerned much about downvotes.
1:56 PM
@ManishEarth oooh you've gone all mod-dy on him, :P
@RhysW :s
@ManishEarth ?
:S <-- Wavy face
Basically says that I'm not too fond of going all moddy :)
@ManishEarth ahh fair enough :P
huh, that was odd, silly numbers
@RhysW ?


Where you can play with chat features (except flagging) and ch...
^ play around all you want
2:06 PM
my issue was specific to this chat so that wouldnt help :P
mess around as much as you want then :)
If necessary I can clean up once you're done
nah its just some of the numbers were stuck at the top of my screen, telling me i had messages when i didnt, was trying to force the chat to refresh, that seems to have worked
@ManishEarth oh so you found out what youre doing with the graphene yet? or still waiting
2:21 PM
@RhysW I'll find out on or after the 20th
@ManishEarth wow atleast 5 days of waiting, that would drive me crazy!
Currently I've just been told to read up about Graphene/etc (ignoring technical stuff)
ANd try to get some examples in Abinit and Quantum Espresso working
Abinit is working, I'm rather scared of QEspresso
@ManishEarth Quantum Espresso, i take it thats not a type of coffee?
software for computational physics/chem
@ManishEarth wait really? that sounds semi fun, searches
2:24 PM
For both of these you basically input a layout of atoms and it does some Schrodinger magic
Anyway, taking a nap now. Day's been tiring.
Ooh i might have a poke around at that later today, i prefer learning by doing :P
@RhysW so far i prefer abinit, partially because QE takes too long to set up.
And partially because QE is more confusing.
@ManishEarth You seen me commenting on his posts ? or talking to him in any form ? I was avoiding him since that day we fought . I didn't even start the whole thing , he did . Anyways , still it makes no difference . I have no further interest in discussion over this trivial matter .
@nonagon I was talking about the fight itself. Let's drop it.
@ManishEarth You know him personally ? You seem very biased towards him at times.
2:28 PM
@nonagon No.
I have tried to review most of your exchanges from an objective POV. AFAICT, 007 is only disagreeing with you on certain things (though he has flared up when provoked).
Ok. Lets just end this now . It was my fault . Fine .
2:51 PM
stretches today seems to be really dragging on!
3:16 PM
@ManishEarth I want to ask you something about IITs , kind of useless though :)
What LAN speed you get there in your rooms ? Downloading speed , the net one which you get in practically downloading something ?
3:58 PM
@nonagon 1-50 megabits per second
4:21 PM
@ManishEarth Bits/bytes. 1byte=8bits . And this is what you get personally . So super-fast huh? And for free ?
@nonagon Yep. We don't get charged for usage, though there are some limits
Or is this like for whole college and then it is further divided ?
Of course, part of the charge is borne by the fee (and govt subsidy)
But is costly enough if you try to afford such speed personally
iirc all educational institutes get some amount of usage free (for the iits iirc it's 50% of their total)
@nonagon Nope. I just ran speedtest from my comp
4:23 PM
And it never gets disconnected ?
And also what are limits ? Like daily download limits are there?
@nonagon something like that. The number's too large for me to hit
I think it's something like 20GB/person/day
Which very few people hit
Good :) .
4:39 PM
@ManishEarth ?
He asks questions regarding string theory here
@nonagon does his age matter? or you just curious?
And looks like he has quite a background and also his voice here youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=RTCnhAQ7u2I#! looks like he is quite young to be knowing such stuff .
could simply be using an old photo. a lot of folke\s use childhood pics
4:41 PM
@nonagon please dont be one of those people
I actually am praising him.
May be he's one of physics' terence tao
@nonagon Does it matter?
And it's better not to stalk people
Yes , don't you think its a big thing ?
@nonagon why? just because of his age? by that premise you should be ashamed that lots of people older than him dont have that knowledge
@nonagon Not exactly.
What Rhys said
4:43 PM
It's impressive because its an amazing level of intellect to have, NOT because of his age
If he's a prodigy or something, I'm sure he'll get recognized if he's doing all this on youtube/etc.
@RhysW It is intellect because of the age as at such a young age one has a complex enough mind to understand these things and with time he'll get more mature , his experience with the field will be greater than almost all of us when he reaches the right age .
@nonagon exactly, you just said it right there, its the complexity of his mind thats impressive
@nonagon Technically our mind doesn't develop much wrt ability to understand complex things after we're 5 or so.
It's just that the complex things have a lot of simple prerequisites.
I think its a huge thing to understand such theories at this age , means he worked through all the background physics as well and could be one of the biggest string theorists we'll have later
The maths only is difficult to grasp for that level at this age.
4:46 PM
i give up
@nonagon your intellect is not magically tied to your age, you know that right
there is correlation, not causation
regardless of age, that level of intellect is impressive
@RhysW But experience is .
And research is done majorly due to experience rather than pure intellect . It is only after you spend a long time with a subject that you can expect someone to be knowing better that subject better than others.
@RhysW we all have a finite life . So young age matters a lot
@nonagon thats not true, im better than most people at work who have been doing it for 5-10 years,
Are you in research ?
4:49 PM
@nonagon what Rhys says applies to any field
Research or otherwise
some people just 'get' the subject,
its dependent on how their brain is wired,
Either way, I looked into his age (for moderator purposes, google COPPA), and it's not a problem.
So his age is ? Delete the message in 2-3 secs
thats a violation of privacy
@ManishEarth Is it a number to be surprised of for normal people ?
4:51 PM
@RhysW not exactly, I used public resources
Wait one sec
@RhysW There's no real issue if I share it, just that I don't like sharing such info. I did a bit of Google-Fu to stalk him, because I sort of needed to. I don't like holding on to such info or disseminating it.
Can you link me where you found the info
I can, but no
Why do you need to know?
I just am surprised seeing this kind of maturity in physics .
@ManishEarth thankyou, just because someone wants to know doesnt give them the right to
@nonagon So...curiosity? That's not a reason.
4:56 PM
Because if 99 is his date of birth , it is surprising that a 14-15 year old boy knows more than many of his . You can expect him to know quite a bit around 25-30 if he continues to struggle .
shakes head
I generally treat hard to find information at the same level as impossible to find info
head resonates at Rhys' frequency
ok , leave it.
@ManishEarth we better be careful before we break something!
Golden Gate Bridge collapses
Coming soon, marijuana.SE!
How to Grow Marijuana

Proposed Q&A site for medical marijuana patients, researchers, medical professionals and enthusiasts who are interested in growing their own cannabis flowers.

Closed before being launched.

5:00 PM
people propose the strangest things
That's really not that strange
5:12 PM
@nonagon If you plan on doing a ton of downloading for archival purposes then even moderately fast speeds are enough to run you out of disk space.
@BrandonEnright well, folks usually have 1 TB drives and they download TV shows/etc
Yeah but at 20 or 50 or 100 or whatever Mbit/s 1TB just isn't a lot for any moderate period of time.
@BrandonEnright hm
However, the end goal is volume, after all
Note that the institute cracks down heavily on mass-downloading journals/papers/etc
I met a number of undergrads when I was working for my university that actually factored bandwidth in to the decision for what school they went to. I think they all ran out of disk space in a few months.
We have this internal file sharing network(DC++) which is a lot faster. I wonder how the students who use it a lot get used to life without it after they graduate.
5:19 PM
Yeah I saw plenty of DC++ traffic between schools on our educational network links (I worked for the ResNet program at UC San Diego)
resnet=residential network?
There were about 10k students living on campus. The residential network's uplink was 2 Gbps (two 1Gbps Etherchannel links) and (most) students had 1Gbps links to their dorm.
Anyways I think total Internet bandwidth is a terrible reason to go to a school.
For my purposes it usually doesn't matter
Youtube works without lag, which is good (and I don't use it that much so I wouldn't care if it did lag)
And I can download packages that are like 100MB in a matter of seconds.
Which is orders of magnitude better than the bandwidth one usually gets in India -- it takes hours to download a 500 MB file at home
(IPad upgrades, LaTeX, various packages, MediaWiki, MySQL, etc )
5:27 PM
US home ISP connections are notoriously poor too. When UCSD was offering 1Gbps to students, folks living off campus had no more than 3 Mbps down and usually less than 1 up.
Some ISPs are starting to offer good speeds. My Internet connection now is 50 Mbps down and 15 up ($90 a month)
@BrandonEnright I had a reasonably good connection when I used to live in the States :)
Also: 3Mbps is an awesome speed in India :P
@BrandonEnright not bad
@ManishEarth India has similar issues to the US. It's a huge country and and much of it is rural. It's very costly to lay all of the fiber to rural locations.
@BrandonEnright Sure, though I was talking about urban areas.
I work for a big international company and a bunch of my colleagues are in Bangalore. I'd say the biggest issue they have is electrical outages.
But yeah, only the top level connections(between ISPs and providers) are fiber IIRC. Though my institute uses fiber between buildings (made me O_0 first time I heard it)
@BrandonEnright Oh, right, that.
I live in a part of Bombay which doesn't get outages. And my institute doesn't either. But yes, that is a problem; a big one.
5:32 PM
I love a fast Internet connection but I like the power to stay on even more. It's hard to download when the power is out :-/
@BrandonEnright yep
@ManishEarth where in the US were you when you lived here?
@BrandonEnright Malden, MA
I could never deal with the snow in MA.
suburb of Boston. Quiet place, but far from remote :)
@BrandonEnright Driving? Or just the cold/walking over iced snow?
5:35 PM
Anything :-p I'm from Southern California. Snow seems nice until you've been around it for a day.
I haven't driven in MA in the snow/ice, but I can see how it would be annoying
@BrandonEnright I never had much of a problem with cold or snow. I have been known to go outside (to go to a nearby building) in shorts when the temp was below 10.
And not notice it
Of course, I would realize it in the case of prolonged exposure :P
But that's just me
I see how snow can be annoying, especially to those who haven't grown up to it.
1 hour later…
6:58 PM
@ManishEarth & the other physics mods; just to let you know, I've been tidying up some old comments, following on from the discussion over on meta.SO. So if you see an automated warning, please don't worry: I'm not vandalising, just doing some house-cleaning on old comments of mine that were now mere clutter.
I don't think there's an auto notification for that
But no prob, thanks for the headsup :)
@EnergyNumbers Flag any other useless comments you see :)
@ManishEarth ah, I thought I saw something in the other place about such things. Heh, and check out the meta.SO discussion: you'll see I consider all comments over a month old to be dispensable, so consider all comments over a month old to be flagged ;) Though my request for a bot to auto-delete them hasn't gone down so well (-12 and counting)
A: Help us figure out a way to handle the explosion of comments on Stack Overflow

EnergyNumbersI propose a sweeper bot that deletes all comments more than N months old that have fewer than X votes. The bot could work to a table, whereby there were several entries, with X rising with N. For example: Delete all comments more than 1 month old with fewer than 1 vote. Delete all comments mo...

@EnergyNumbers lol
Meh, Meta is a fickle mistress
I may put up an answer there as well, on Physics we have a higher percentage of discussion-in-the-comments than most
@ManishEarth they do love their comments.
Thing is, automating stuff is usually icky
7:03 PM
@ManishEarth Yes, we do; I'll be interested to see what you put up. It got discussed in TL too.
I know, just don't have the time right now to answer
@ManishEarth Ah, but comments are designed to be ephemeral. (Supposedly)
@EnergyNumbers yep
However, mass deletion is a different matter
@ManishEarth Burn them with fire. (ok, except maybe the ones with a fistful of upvotes). I know, I know, collateral damage, but think of the tidiness ;)
If my hand slips and I delete a not-that-bad comment, even if I do so once a day, it's no biggie. But mass deleting -- not so good imo
I see where you're coming from though
7:05 PM
anyway, I'm out of here for now. Later, Manish
cya :)
7:40 PM
@EnergyNumbers I strongly disagree with your answer on MSO, I downvoted it. I know less about SO/MSO, etc but here et Physics SE at least there are many very valuable and insightful comments accompanying questions and answers left by very knowledgable people, they should not get deleted just for the fund of deleting comments and no other reason. I have obtained very valuable comments in addition to answers to my question and I want to keep them by all means, other physicists here my feel the
same. So please try not to be that enthusiastic about destroying other people's stuff here on physics without any need, I dont like this at all :-/! Just leave physics comments alone, please !
@Dilaton We generally don't delete such comments
We move discussions to chat, and delete the useless comments
However, in general, comments are only for improving the post
If there's a nice comment, incorporate it into the post.
@ManishEarth that is good :-), but I got the impression that EnergyNumbers wants to delete comments just for the heck of deleting comments :-/. For example, if Lumo considers a question not worth an answer from him but wants to say something about the topic nevertheless, he often leaves very valuable (!) comments ...
And if a good answer is already sitting there, it is often the case that other people have nice additional insights, that are not big enough for an answer on its own, but that are nevertheless very valuable. Such additional insights are not easy to incorporate as an edit into the existing answer because it would be a too large edit. On the other side I would feel like steeling other peoples ideas (if they are not my own) when incorporating such comments into my answers.
@Dilaton That's the point of comments, always incorporate if you agree with them
Write something like
EnergyNumbers proposal and fierceness in wanting to delete old comments (which my still be valid and valuable) just scared me :-/. But it is good if some valuable physics comments will still be tolerated and left alone, and too long discussions can go to chat as usual, as you say :-)
7:55 PM
> EDIT: As Manishearth mentioned below, black holes are really giant apples in the sky
That makes it not stealing
@Dilaton Meh, I find that 99% of old comments are useless. He offered the extreme position, which I appreciate -- I don't agree with the automation but I agree with the sentiment.
@ManishEarth but good interesting physics comments often retain their validity, what should be the point of destroying them?
@Dilaton 1%
Again, I disagree with automation
But extreme views when put forth constructively do add perspective to a discussion
@ManishEarth maybe we are not looking at the same questions, but from my observation much more than 1% of good physics comments by very knowledgable people are valuable and very insightful in the long run. I consider many of them useful when browsing the site for reading up questions and answers about specific topics.
@Dilaton Well, I see a lot of posts every day since I review them
Old and new
I generally don't bother with comments
But very very few are useful in the long run
@ManishEarth but other people here may think and feel different. I mean, people who dont like reading comments can just ignore them, but people as I for example, who consider many of the physics comments valuable too, will just no longer have access to good information if they get deleted for no good reason and without urgency. I think one should be a bit tolerant and aknowledge that people consider different things useful and valuable.
8:06 PM
@Dilaton ...except that in the end, people shouldn't be using the comment box for that
This is like doing a painting inside a train on the wall and refusing to let people remove it because it is beautiful and people like it, even though it shouldn't have been painted in the first place
However, Phys.SE has a tolerant policy towards such comments. Not to discussions; these go to chat.
@Dilaton one more thing: The question was specifically tailored to Stack Overflow, where the 99% becomes 99.99% and the volume is orders of magnitude higher
8:24 PM
@ManishEarth that is good as it is here at physics and if it stays like this :-). And I see that the issue may be bigger on Stack Overflow because this site is larger than physics.
larger and has a much more noisy/unruly community
Don't worry, such feature requests only get enabled networkwide if it makes sense
SE understands that all sites are different
Of course, there are still a few legacy features (like, for example, the "practical problems you face") that are all over the place -- but that's an old feature that's not yet been updated, not a new featured applied to all sites
And IIRC that will be fixed soon when the /faq page is revamped
One thing I dont like here on physics are the automated downvotes ... I always counterupvote them if I think a downvote that goes along with the closure is unneeded :-P ... Anyway, thanks for the clarifications :-)
A: Help us figure out a way to handle the explosion of comments on Stack Overflow

ManishearthWhile we certainly don't reach your levels of volume, Physics.SE has a high percentage of discussion-in-the-comments cases. So I see where you're coming from on this. Firstly, my personal philosophy on comments is the following: If it has little to no potential of improving the question, delete....

9:01 PM
@ManishEarth Yes! More power to mods to clean out useless comment streams! On metas as well as main sites - meta.physics.SE has some of the worst abuses of comments as discussion threads anywhere on StackExchange. Some people just don't get the concept that the Stacks are simply not discussion forums.
Well, to be fair, meta is for discussion
@EnergyNumbers agreed, as long as you're talking about the main site. But like Manishearth said, meta sites are meant for discussion so long comment threads are the norm there.
I've been in favor of a "delete all comments older than X" for a long time, despite recognizing that it would never get implemented. But if it had been in place all along, people wouldn't be using comments for content they wanted to stick around in the first place.
9:21 PM
@DavidZaslavsky Exactly
9:50 PM
RIP Kepler spacecraft
@ChrisWhite seriously? We lost Kepler?
you have to read between the lines
the satellite needs three reaction wheels to dump angular momentum in order to point accurately
it began with 4, 1 died some time ago, and another seems to have kicked the bucket
9:59 PM
It was providing such incredible results too. I guess NASA used up all of their good luck with the recent Mars rovers.
(of course, in theory you only need 2 wheels, since orientation is a 2D vector space, but I guess the engineers can't deliver accuracy enough in that case)
but yeah, they can't keep the stars on single pixels any more, so all hope of finding, say, an earth analogue, is gone
Yeah not a lot of optimism in their statements.
@ChrisWhite do you have any feel for the limits of current technology for future kepler-like missions? Could NASA build something significantly more sensitive than Kepler based on what they've learned and using current tech?
well TESS is on the drawing board
imo it has a 50-50 chance of eventually flying
10:07 PM
i feel we can do better, but not in all respects
like, ccd photometric precision isn't really going to improve, and you don't need it to
the frame-by-frame noise comes more from stellar variability than instrumental effects, so you need better star theory on that front
but there are other things that can be improved
for one, Kepler had an awful method for sending data back to Earth
I'm amazed any dimming from a transit can be seen at all considering the distance to the stars
10:09 PM
every once in a while it would stop monitoring stars, point toward the Earth, and transmit everything at once - thus the different data periods are a mess trying to stitch together
How was Kepler relaying data?
oh seriously? that's terrible
yup - people I know who deal with the raw data directly curse this feature every day
also, it eliminates enormous quantities of data before transmitting
so even though it might take 15 s exposures, these are then stacked satellite-side and only the stacked ones make it through to us
Isn't that expected though? Just like triggers on the LHC? It's collecting huge amounts of data so pre-filtering seems reasonable.
10:11 PM
well, it's not that much data, and besides, this misses high-frequency signals
we expect ~5 min oscillations in stars like the Sun (or, at least, we look for them), so astroseismology could really use that data
and that data would also be a big help for finding exomoons
for short-period planets, you can get around this by phase-folding many transits together
@ChrisWhite the wiki article on TESS says "[...]candidates which are Earth-sized or larger, with orbital periods of up to two months"
but for longer periods (like, I don't know, Earth), you don't have many transits without a long-lasting satellite, so sub-minute precision would be necessary to get all the details out of the light curve
10:15 PM
Does that mean Tess is meant for long period detection?
yeah - hold on, i'm generating a plot... ;)
@BrandonEnright That's the set of Kepler objects, courtesy of exoplanets.org
(I highly recommend playing with their plotter if you haven't already)
So 10 days is the sweet spot for kepler
10:25 PM
also, for the few objects where the publication date is in the database, I added color
note that the discoveries are marching down and to the right with time
longer baselines -> longer periods
longer baselines -> more transits -> higher S/N for small planets -> smaller planets discovered
Yeah makes perfect sense.
So even if we saw one transit in the Kepler data, if we don't see a second one with the same profile then we don't know anything about the orbit. So killing the satellite early means a bunch of stuff we've already seen doesn't have enough data to say much about it.
10:28 PM
indeed - and only very large planets have a good enough signal with 1 transit to be detected, and even that would require non-standard analysis
typically one fourier transforms the light curves and looks for periodicity
So how do things like our Sun's 11-year solar cycle show up in other stars? Does that create periodic non-transit false signals?
there are many things like that that can produce false signals, many of which need further research
for a simpler example, ask yourself how a transiting planet looks different from a sunspot rotating with the star
I hadn't considered sunspots since I figured they wouldn't dim enough.
But with a planet transit, isn't light reflected off the planet when the planet isn't passing by? That is, like phases of the moon?
And wouldn't there be a tiny dimming when the planet went behind the star due to less reflected light?
10:37 PM
yup - they're called secondary transits
not always visible, but when they are, there is more you can infer
For really big planets in front of a star, is there any sort of wiggle in the light curve due to gravitational lensing?
people who model exoplanet atmospheres have an interest in such things, since, in principle, you can see if the "hot spot" on the planet always faces the star or is shifted due to winds
actually a few weeks ago I posted something in a chat session about detecting that lensing in a white dwarf/M-dwarf binary
check out Figure 7 - arxiv.org/abs/1304.1165
10:42 PM
That is a very fast orbital period. Those suckers are zooming around each other.
"causes the transit depth to be shallower than expected" does this mean the light dims less than expected because of the lensing?
Yeah Figure 7 in the paper spells it out in detail. Really cool.
Does Kepler data contain anything that would be useful for detecting red / blue shift in spectral lines? Or is it purely intensity data.
I'm 90% sure it's pure intensity, but I suppose someone could have slipped a filter in there...
that could be a question on this site, you know
not a hugely popular one, perhaps, but a good one to have a definite answer to
10:52 PM
Hmm I guess it feels too much like an engineering / data question and not really a conceptual question. I should ask though.
it'd be like asking "can the LHC detect muons directly" or some such thing, so definitely on topic

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