The h Bar

antimony

3:17 AM

ohh cool thanks @tpg2114 that makes sense :)

RewCie

4:05 AM

Good Morning everyone

What's the purpose of existence of human being?

are we all living in simulation?

what if laws of logic is time dependent?

antimony

morning @RewCie

John Rennie

4:20 AM

There is no purpose to existence, but since we're here anyway we might as well have a good time.

4

RewCie

🤣

antimony

4:42 AM

the purpose of existence, is to ask yourself....what is the purpose of existence?

More Anonymous

6:14 AM

@RewCie THen energy isn't conserved

ery cerious matherfunker

7:23 AM

The purpose of existence is to eventually not exist :`)

There seems nothing new to do in electrical engineering (I mean research)

More Anonymous

9:21 AM

@RewCie Define reality then I'll answer if we are living in a simulation

@RewCie Also my personal fav answer

What Is The Meaning Of Life?

►

fqq

9:48 AM

@Charlie you're studying in the UK right? What you say might apply more broadly, but from what I've seen everything is much more compressed there, compared to say Italy or Germany

Charlie

10:45 AM

@fqq Yeah for sure it may be different in other countries, I've only studied in the UK, specifically southern England

Guess I'll just file it under "list of things other countries do better than England"

but I must say, starting to get a bit crowded in there

John Rennie

To be fair you would have to also construct a list of the thinks the UK does better than other countries.

And because there is only one UK and N other countries you would expect the lengths of the lists to differ by a factor of N just based on random chance.

So if and only if the UK list is more than a factor of N smaller than the non-UK list should you start feeling negative.

Charlie

Just let me be angry! :P

ACuriousMind

11:08 AM

@JohnRennie I'm not sure assuming the outcomes of politics are governed by random chance is the right approach here :P

John Rennie

@ACuriousMind just consider yourself fortunate I didn't start by assuming spherical symmetry

ACuriousMind

hm, the globe is approximately spherically symmetric...

BioPhysicist

That's what's missing in today's political climate: reasonable geometric assumptions

fqq

1:06 PM

@JohnRennie of course. Also it's not obvious that the other countries' approach is necessarily better. Most people's goal is not to have a deep knowledge of the mathematics behind gauge theories (even among people studying physics at university).

RewCie

1:23 PM

@MoreAnonymous I'd define reality as universal set of operations of universe and simulations as an isolated part of universe with constrains in use of total set of operations.

Set of operations are everything that produces change in the state of universe.

@MoreAnonymous hehe :-)

Now bak to Comtupar Engynaring

More Anonymous

1:41 PM

@RewCie why would you constrain the possibilities in a simulation? Wouldn't you wanna fly matrix style?

PM 2Ring

2:20 PM

@MoreAnonymous Why would I want a fly matrix? ;)

Nihar Karve

@PM2Ring are you telling me you just had that image lying around

PM 2Ring

@NiharKarve No.

ACuriousMind

@NiharKarve look at the image's link - the internet had that image lying around :P

More Anonymous

2:37 PM

@PM2Ring lol

PM 2Ring

:D

RewCie

2:52 PM

@PM2Ring Hey there, long time, no see?

remember me? :P

. i.stack.imgur.com/fKKzv.jpg

Lucky people getting married to their loved ones consecutively life by life....

While, I'm only getting breakups :3 UwU

. i.stack.imgur.com/oeGKG.jpg

Aliens and Illuminati confirmed

@MoreAnonymous When a simulation/universe, creates another simulation within itself, it does constrains certain operations from the set of operations granted to them.

ACuriousMind

Please try to refrain from posting multiple large images that fill up the screen, especially if they're not relevant to any ongoing conversation. It makes the chat unnecessarily hard to read. (I've edited the images to not embed anymore)

RewCie

Okay, sorry.

@Slereah Hey there, long time no see!? Which part of spacetime?

XD :-P

More Anonymous

3:14 PM

@RewCie everytime I cheat in my computer game I have infinite resources at my disposable but not reality :/

RewCie

@MoreAnonymous if we can cheat here, we'll be able to unlock the mysteries of parent simulation/universe!

More Anonymous

@RewCie I dont think cheats exist in out universe :P

RewCie

@MoreAnonymous If it is a simulation, cheats "must" exist!

More Anonymous

@RewCie This reminds me of how some people used the universe is a simulation argument to further claim jesus was a "cheat"

While some found it amusing

I found it annoying

RewCie

If some cheat sequence, operations exist, then it must produce result everytime it us used in that state

It could be aliens playing us... :Who knows:

Saying no aliens exist because we haven't seen one is like taking a spoon of water out of ocean and saying no whales exist because the spoon had none.

ACuriousMind

3:23 PM

@MoreAnonymous A self-contained simulation is different from a video game that runs on player input. The effective rules of the simulation - whether they are intended by the programmers or not (i.e. are bugs) - appear as laws of nature to inhabitants of a simulation. They cannot distinguish cheats or bugs from "correct" laws of nature - it's all just the way the world works to them.

RewCie

What if aliens are players and using cheat while playing with humanity on earth!?

That angers me, we should attack alien civilization for revenge!

ACuriousMind

The entire debate about a simulated universe has always struck me as a bit pointless - there is no conceivable experiment you could perform to tell whether you're in a simulation or not, since if we are in a simulation, we know nothing about the laws of the "real" world, and therefore cannot possibly say what sort of simulation artifacts the "real" world limitations of the simulator might produce, so there's no way to interpret anything as evidence for simulation, really

RewCie

Okay, if the parent universe doesn't has any influence of the children simulation, then why do, humanity is afraid of AI which is kinda limited to simulation inside chips?

More Anonymous

@ACuriousMind Same! I never found it fruitful. I mean that's why I asked what you mean by reality? If we are in a simulation we are just experiencing a different reality

Doesnt really change much? My surprise was the amount of traction this idea got

RewCie

I somehow want to get out of this simulation.... dunno why, this universe doesn't fits me, dun like it.

@MoreAnonymous honestly, same :P Started out just for fun

More Anonymous

3:28 PM

@RewCie No thats just everyone undergoing puberty

:P

RewCie

@MoreAnonymous Omkey.... cries in corner , puberty is painful!

More Anonymous

@RewCie Wait for adulthood

Rumor has it that its worse

RewCie

why? no breakups in adulthood?

More Anonymous

Year after year in university your childhood dreams seem more and more illusionary

RewCie

so?

ACuriousMind

3:30 PM

@MoreAnonymous I think people just think about stuff like the traditional cyberpunk matrix and find it interesting to imagine our world might be like that. Note that all the sci-fi and cyberpunk stories about simulated worlds are interesting only because reality sooner or later intrudes on the simulation (otherwise there'd be no plot)

More Anonymous

Then you are forced to work in job you hate so you have bread

PM 2Ring

ObXKCD: xkcd.com/505

RewCie

@MoreAnonymous daym! Sed

More Anonymous

@RewCie Yups! Welcome to adulthood

One step down from being a teenager :P

RewCie

Before breakup - clean shave, illusion, post - beard, trimmed hair, millionare dreams

More Anonymous

3:32 PM

On the bright hand side you can now buy t shirts

like this

ACuriousMind

@PM2Ring With simpler universes, we've already done that - reminds me of people building a computer inside a game of life running game of life

More Anonymous

I have a whole collection :P

RewCie

Cool paper that performs an experiment by taking two sets of mice and performing double blind CRT Trials by giving one set placebo and other homeopathic medicine, (note, 30c contains no original molecules of the original dillutant), then, watching out the result - pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/22548123

Laws of physics contradicted :-)

@MoreAnonymous cool shirt, send one phor me, en, India.. XD :-P

More Anonymous

Sure the day you flunk IIT I'll send you one as means to celebrate the best "road not taken" :P

No seriously that examination is an abomination

RewCie

@MoreAnonymous hahaha :-)

@MoreAnonymous agree, 30000000000000000000000000%%%%%

More Anonymous

3:36 PM

Maybe this one?

RewCie

daym! The paper has around 45 citations too!??!!

@MoreAnonymous cool, the last equation is yet to be studied! :P

More Anonymous

@RewCie Did they teach you the differential form?

I remember learning the integral form

ACuriousMind

@RewCie not really a source that inspires trust, the publisher is known to border on predatory practices and one of the founding editors has called the journal "useless rubbish".

RewCie

@MoreAnonymous yes, using divergence and stokes theorem and poynting theorem too

More Anonymous

Nice!!

RewCie

3:40 PM

@ACuriousMind It has 45 citations, it must be reproducible too!

lemme check for some others

ACuriousMind

that's...not how it works

RewCie

then?

ACuriousMind

Rubbish gets cited by other rubbish, and the number of citations doesn't mean anything about reproducibility, considering that even a failure to reproduce something would be expected to cite the thing whose reproduction is attempted

RewCie

@ACuriousMind can you check this? citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/…

@ACuriousMind wait? What!!? Who does it like that? No one would trust the publisher then

ACuriousMind

why do you think anyone trusts this publisher or journal? :P

More Anonymous

3:43 PM

@ACuriousMind btw any book recommendation for complex analysis? I wanna be as competent as math postgraduate ... Analytic number theory sounds like fun

RewCie

@ACuriousMind good scientists

ACuriousMind

the world is full of predatory journals and plenty of people publishing in them for various reasons

RewCie

@MoreAnonymous Rudin is a good one?

PM 2Ring

@ACuriousMind Yep. I was pretty impressed when I first saw the Unit Cell pattern, which lets you run Life in Life. I've never tried to build a general programmable computer in Life, but I have messed around with doing computations in Life, using streams of gliders for bit strings.

I created a pattern that can do multiplication, based on an existing pattern (created by David Buckingham) that does addition. I later created an adder that's simpler (and slightly faster) than Buckingham's, but has a larger bounding box.

RewCie

@ACuriousMind Anyone can publish on them?

More Anonymous

3:46 PM

@RewCie Thanks :)

RewCie

@MoreAnonymous belcom :-)

ACuriousMind

@RewCie in this case "The peer-review system of EBCAM is farcical: potential authors who send their submissions to EBCAM are invited to suggest their preferred reviewers who subsequently are almost invariably appointed to do the job. It goes without saying that such a system is prone to all sorts of serious failures; in fact, this is not peer-review at all, in my opinion, it is an unethical sham."

just read the Wiki articles and their sources I linked - just because something is called a "paper" doesn't always mean it's even worth the paper you might print it on

RewCie

EBCAM? I think that was Asian Pacific Cancer rev...

Asian Pacific Journal of Cancer Prevention,

ACuriousMind

that's the second one you linked, and I'm not sure what you meant by "Can you check this" in that case - I'm not reading a paper for you

RewCie

Okay

Wait

Can I publish two same papers in different journals?

for more visibility and citations?

Is that okay?

like one in ArXiv and other in some other, Elsevier or whatever?

ACuriousMind

3:50 PM

it's usually frowned upon and often forbidden by the respective licensings of the journals

RewCie

Okay

ACuriousMind

but arXiv is not a journal

RewCie

How much will I have to pay for one publish?

so what is ArXiv?

whatever, but papers are available for free on it

XD

ACuriousMind

@RewCie It's a preprint server. None of the submissions are peer-reviewed, although many of them are later published in peer-reviewed journals and the curators seem generally pretty good about keeping dubious material out

RewCie

So, does journals allow that? submitting papers free on ArXiv?

why would a journal allow that?

ACuriousMind

3:54 PM

@RewCie they are pre-prints, i.e. published there before the paper is published anywhere else

RewCie

So, journals allow it? Why?

PM 2Ring

@RewCie From en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/ArXiv In many fields of mathematics and physics, almost all scientific papers are self-archived on the arXiv repository before publication in a peer-reviewed journal.

RewCie

Why would journals allow it? preprint papers?

This year's Turing Award goes to Aho and Ullman, the authors of the very fine Dragon Book.

ACuriousMind

How could they forbid it? Once e.g. arXiv had reached critical mass with most people in some fields like math or physics uploading their preprints there, these people just weren't going to submit to journals anymore that would forbid having a published preprint

RewCie

okay.... makes sense uwu

What are some of the most simplest questions with most complicated answers?

or what are some of the most complicated questions with simplest answers?

check this paper - vereniginghomeopathie.nl/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/… This one is from one of the biggest dermatology journal of EU.

damn!

Charlie

4:07 PM

Are you interested in the homeopathic treatment of psoriasis or something?

RewCie

Nope, just breaking laws of dilution...

Actually, I got mine treated few years ago

ACuriousMind

I'm not sure why you keep posting random homeopathy studies here, then :P

RewCie

I want to prove that dilutions don't work as they are imagined... Quantum dilutions changes the structure of solvents and from successive dilutions, the cluster of solvent gets a better resolution of clone of the molecule being diluted.

It's just a hypothesis...

Also, they loose that cluster formation property once being exposed to aromatic compounds like haemoglobin

ACuriousMind

And why would you believe that? "Quantum dilutions" is just random words put next to each other, there is no such effect in quantum mechanics. Most studies and meta-analyses show that the evidence for homeopathy is poor to non-existent, citing random studies that say the opposite is just cherry-picking.

(well, there actually is an effect called "quantum dilution" used to cool down specific quantum systems, but that's completely different)

RewCie

Homeopathy meds need to be diluted near ~0K Temperature to get this effect or some physical alterations, we don't understand yet , actually, this quantum dilution this just random word, I found suitable for that hypothesis...

@ACuriousMind I'll have to look for a different name to avoid copyright :P XD

Charlie

4:16 PM

What physically changes when you dilute a negligible amount of a compound at low K temperaturs?

ACuriousMind

@RewCie That's not an answer to why you would believe that

RewCie

I'm not sure about ~0K thing, that was just an example....

ACuriousMind

just stating that something might be the case is not science, it's random guessing

RewCie

@ACuriousMind NO one should believe that unless proven, but waut

@ACuriousMind all the proofs were once random guessing

@Charlie Nothing, I'm trying to use liquids in such a way to clone structure of other molecules...

Charlie

How do you clone the structure of another molecule?

As in you put a compound in a solution with other molecules and it behaves like those other molecules?

RewCie

4:18 PM

@Charlie I "randomly, arbitarily, guessed it" by dilution...

ACuriousMind

@RewCie I'm not sure what that's supposed to mean, but if you think scientists just randomly guess what might work until it something does then that's very rarely what happens. Usually you start with a theory of how something works or a curious observation you can't yet explain.

RewCie

@Charlie That's what motivated me to read homeopathy and alchemy books :\

Charlie

To my understanding homeopathy and alchemy are generally considered to be pseudoscience

RewCie

@ACuriousMind I've some intuition, but that needs some work... :\ :3

@Charlie yes, correct!

ACuriousMind

...you understand that pseudoscience is a bad thing, right?

RewCie

4:20 PM

Nope, my approach is different :P

Charlie

I.e. they are on par with astrology and psychics

RewCie

pseudoscience Exists! for a reason!!!

ACuriousMind

@Charlie hey, at least the stars astrology is about exist :P

RewCie

lol :-) :P

Charlie

Pseudoscience often exists because people who are not literate in science are a profitable audience

RewCie

4:22 PM

Whatever, but if my intuition are correct, we can optimize the mechanism by which homeopathy sorcery works.

yes, bad think to mislead people in the name of science... agree

ACuriousMind

You cannot simultaneously say it's bad to mislead people in the name of science and attempt to propagate pseudoscience here.

Charlie

lol

ACuriousMind

Or, well, you can as you just did, but that doesn't have a very good look to it.

RewCie

okay

lol

lmao

this?

21 mins ago, by RewCie

check this paper - https://www.vereniginghomeopathie.nl/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/Onderzoek-Psoriasis_Witt_2009.pdf This one is from one of the biggest dermatology journal of EU.

PM 2Ring

@RewCie How do you do dilutions near 0 K? Liquid helium isn't a great solvent. Hydrogen freezes solid at 14 K (at standard atmospheric pressure).

ACuriousMind

4:26 PM

I'm done with this conversation - "lmao" is not a good faith response to someone pointing out you're contradicting yourself.

Qmechanic

@PM2Ring : Sounds like just another sol for Perseverance the rover :)

Charlie

To my understanding the effectiveness of homeopathy is psychological, the premise that tiny amounts of medicine massively diluted is an effective treatment is not correct

More Anonymous

@Charlie Aka placebo effect

PM 2Ring

@Qmechanic Could be... :)

Charlie

So there isn't really any "homeopathy sorcery" to optimize, it simply does not work

More Anonymous

4:29 PM

@RewCie are you a deepak chopra fan by any chance? :P

RewCie

@MoreAnonymous lmao no

Charlie

and the effectiveness of homeopathy is at best highly contentious

RewCie

@Charlie link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s002280050716

Meta analysis of Placebo vs Homeopathy trials

450 citations

Charlie

"Conclusions: There is some evidence that homeopathic treatments are more effective than placebo; however, the strength of this evidence is low because of the low methodological quality of the trials. Studies of high methodological quality were more likely to be negative than the lower quality studies. Further high quality studies are needed to confirm these results."

RewCie

@Charlie yes

the strength of such is low

Charlie

4:32 PM

Or in other words at best highly contentious

RewCie

But did you see the first two trials

@Charlie might be

that could be true, homeopathy is total placebo

bolbteppa

Homeopathy, quackery and fraud | James Randi

►

RewCie

or total nonsense

@bolbteppa unfortunately that was pure water... :\

Charlie

But that's the reason you have meta-analyses like this, it doesn't matter if a single trial produces a semi-positive result

RewCie

homeopathy meds are made with mother tincture

bolbteppa

4:33 PM

@RewCie as is all homeopathy

RewCie

@bolbteppa schwabeindia.com/276-mother-tinctures

modern homeopathy meds aren't 100% water actually.

Charlie

But they contain negligible amounts of actual medicine, that's why they don't work

RewCie

They burn tongue... hot and some kinda like chilly diluted on them because of high ethanol

@Charlie I had one paper, regarding that too, let me search.... umm....

Charlie

If the evidence that homeopathy is more effective than placebo is extremely sketchy (as it is) that is usually the point in science at which we conclude that it isn't effective

RewCie

@bolbteppa sorry this one - schwabeindia.com/blog/rare-mt/…

@Charlie this one - sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S089543560800190X very reputed journal, dilution increases effect for some absurd reason

bolbteppa

4:38 PM

@RewCie vox.com/the-highlight/2019/10/16/20910346/…

RewCie

@Charlie check numbers in results section

Charlie

But again this is cherrypicking data, countless studies show that homeopathy isn't effective beyond placebo, that's why we have large meta-analyses like the one you linked earlier

RewCie

@bolbteppa I'll check her book sure...

bolbteppa

> Homeopathy isn’t Eastern medicine either. It’s slightly more than 200 years old, and it was born in Germany.

> Samuel Hahnemann, an 18th-century physician described by Ernst as a “deeply religious and spiritual man as well as an eccentric, innovator, maverick, and polymath,” first published a new school of medical thought that he named homeopathy in 1790.

> Hahnemann declared this the first of what would come to be known as “homeopathic provings.” (The etymology of the word “homeopathy” is “like disease.”) He conducted more experiments and reached more provings. Soon, he defined several…

It basically contradicts the basic principles of homeopathy not to dilute things to the point of being nothing but water

RewCie

@bolbteppa I know... anything beyond 30c doesn't has a single molecule of original substance

@Charlie sure? numbers are too high to neutrilise in meta analysis....

Charlie

4:42 PM

It's not a closely guarded secret that homeopathy is pseudoscience, it is designed to make money from people who are not scientifically literate

RewCie

That is correct, but if that quantum dilution thing works out, then it'd not be always..... (check If added, if here, I could be wrong)

I'm not getting that study where they do dilution vs CRT Placebo trials and get gaussian graph... If I get, I'll ping you here

ACuriousMind

This conversation seems to be going in circles, maybe it's time to move on from this topic?

Charlie

I don't doubt that it benefits the vultures who sell homeopathic medicine at jacked up prices to include words like "quantum" into their branding. Again, it is a scam targeted at those who don't know better

RewCie

@Charlie agree

@ACuriousMind yes

Charlie

argh you keep agreeing but then posting data and implying that homeopathy is legitimate!

Alright, we can move on lol

ACuriousMind

4:48 PM

A recent answer linked to this paper on global and gauge symmetries and now I'm questioning my understanding of what makes a symmetry a symmetry

unfortunately the paper has like 130 pages not counting appendices so it's not a quick read :P

but the idea that you can identify a gauge symmetry by the presence of certain operators on the space of states even if we usually view it as only expressing a "redundancy" is intriguing

Charlie

Are there Hilbert space operators that transform one state into another state in the same gauge orbit? Kind of like an eigenvector?

RewCie

How many of you agree that it is okay to implant AI based chips in human brain and increase it's intelligence and memory power?

Charlie

I'd never thought about, unless that isn't what you mean in your last sentence

ACuriousMind

@Charlie not in the physical space of states, since physical states are by definition gauge invariant

RewCie

@Charlie ok... But that'd increase intelligence and memory for sure

what's inethical here?

unethical or whatever

Charlie

4:57 PM

That was actually a follow up to my previous comment about what ACM posted

RewCie

sorry

Charlie

:P

@ACuriousMind I had to think for a second about what I actually meant, I meant in the same way that the action of an operator on one of its eigenvectors is closed on that eigenspace, are there operators whose action closes on the equivalence class of states defined in e.g. BRST quantisation?

ACuriousMind

@Charlie This is about non-local operators akin to Wilson lines if you know what these are. Like in the AB effect all states are gauge invariant but there's still an operator that can give you the total phase around the solenoid

RewCie

> A global symmetry transform (e.g., global rotation) clearly has no observable physical effect. If we rotate the whole universe, we haven't changed anything observable.

Doesn't that equivalent to rotating the object in the universe without altering universe? isn't it?

Charlie

Ah I know I think we touch on Wilson lines at the end of my gauge theory course, I'll get back to you :P

If you rotate the universe presumably you rotate everything inside it as well

RewCie

5:02 PM

@Charlie no, keeping object as it is and rotating the universe only

or rotating universe and keeping everything inside it as it is

both same? no?

ACuriousMind

@Charlie well, BRST quantization works such that only the operators that act properly on the equivalence classes are observables

RewCie

The physics we study in engineering is damn different from what you all talk here

Charlie

oh ok

@RewCie Depends what you mean by rotating the universe, if spacetime is the background and you rotate the universe you're going to have curvature in different places, presumably Chiral Anomaly means rotating the entire universe with everything in it

RewCie

seems like I've become a slave of my own brain.... desperately waiting for someone who would never come... :\

@Charlie gotcha..

Charlie

but then again "rotating the universe" is probably open to interpreting what that even means

RewCie

5:07 PM

@Charlie gotcha... I understand that now

thanks :)

That's the truest sht I've seen today

Probably, I should try sleeping now

Bye everyone :-)

have great convos here :))

Charlie

Goodnight

I have a question that I've definitely asked an almost identical version of in the past. But in, say, free scalar QFT the state $\phi(0)|0\rangle$ is just a state created from the vacuum by the action of the operator field evaluated at the origin, but this state in the context of CFT is called a "primary" state. As in, there's nothing new or special about these states per se, they just play an important role in CFTs and so we give them a special name

I'm about 90% sure that is correct at this point, I just want to be 100% sure incase I am going to completely derail myself in the future

ACuriousMind

sounds about right

Charlie

ok, sanity restored (for now) ty :)

ACuriousMind

but the origin is more special in CFT since you usually think about the radial coordinate as time, so it's the infinite past

Charlie

Yeah I sort of get the spirit of so-called radial quantisation, but have to read more about it

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