6:01 PM
@Copernic The length of a day measured by a GPS satellite is longer than the length of the day you and I measure.
@EmilioPisanty Bullshit Asymmetry Principle :-)

@JohnRennie It's a nice encapsulation of the idea, and it'll be handy to have about.

(::smacks interpreter::) curses, you infinite loops!
there needs to be a ghostbusters for infinite loops...the loopbusters or something

Specifically, it's a good encapsulation of why many of us are reluctant to engage in the comments on certain posts that are clearly incorrect. Attitudes to the effect of "oh, just leave a comment saying why it's wrong" take very little account of the BAP.

reminds me of when i tried to argue once with someone about entropy...it was not good. it made me very happy for moderators.

@heather whenever I succumb to the temptation to comment that way I try to remember that my potential audience are third parties reading the answer and my comment, not the author of the answer who is typically beyond redemption.
But like Emilio I usually avoid commenting when I know it's a waste of time.

6:07 PM
This one is pretty recent and has a decent take on the problem:

@JohnRennie, yep, I made all possible mistakes there. =)

I'm more likely to comment when the post is positively scored. The things already being downvoted into oblivion don't need additional comments as much

@EmilioPisanty, that'd be a cool website to create

@heather that's where I sort of lose the track there on that piece
I don't think it's doable or scalable

@Copernic we could show that from the metric. Just calculate the proper time for an observer at constant $r$ and $\dot{\phi}$ integrated from $\phi = 0$ to $2\pi$.
You'll find the proper time increases with increasing $r$.

6:12 PM
The main point, I think, is to focus on whether there is an audience to be informed, or not. If there isn't, and you don't have strong reasons to think that you can convince the other speaker, then you should seriously consider just walking away.
There was a good post on the subject by the Bad Astronomer at some point, as I recall, but for the life of me I cannot find it.

@EmilioPisanty ::shrugs:: I think it is. Use something like a web scraper (or whatever its called) to find every science-related news site on the internet and then have users regularly review sites. You could gamify it, like SE. I don't know how well I'm explaining my concept for it, but I think that would make it quite doable.
And even if it isn't doable, its better to try and fail than not do anything at all

@heather you'd struggle to find people willing to put in the effort to write for it.
The novelty of debunking people who just won't listen wears off rapidly.

@heather Oh, I don't doubt that you can create the infrastructure. I do wonder, though, where you're going to find the large quantity of scientist time that you'll need to make it worthwhile.

@JohnRennie, people wouldn't exactly write against it, they would review it, like tripadvisor reviews a hotel.

plus what real incentives the infrastructure can provide to those scientists

6:14 PM
Dec 8 at 18:02, by ACuriousMind
@JohnRennie No question or answer, no matter how canonical, will convince anyone who just shouts "NANANANA I CANT HEAR YOU".

and how you protect against (the impression that) people there are subject to pretty harsh attacks
(as shown in e.g. the Spectator anecdote in that piece)

@EmilioPisanty true, yes. I guess gamifying it was my idea - badges and points for reviews and milestones of reviews. a chat, where people can blow off steam and interact with people who can maybe discuss what they're working on as scientists or whatever.

Anyway, I have lunch to digest, a beer to drink and this week's New Scientist to read. So my armchair beckons.

@heather I think gamification only works if the core functionality of the site is something people would want to do in the first place

@EmilioPisanty well, as for on the site, I would make it impossible to comment - there would be up/down votes on reviews, but no commenting. In chat and around the site, there would be moderators, checking for spam and insults. I would also make it so that each review is anonymous, showing only the reputation/badges of the user who posted it.

6:17 PM
@heather yeah, but to make that chat interesting you're going to need a lot of people quite densely populating science-space. If you pick ten random physicists out of a bag, we'll be able to chat about physics no problem, but we won't have enough real overlap to meaningfully talk about our research.

@Copernic if you want to attract my attention in the chat just type @johnrennie ina message here.

@ACuriousMind and you think no one would be willing/want to do this? i think there would indeed be people who want to.

No one who hates answering other people's questions will start answering questions just because SE hands out points for it. And I honestly can't imagine many people actually wanting to sift through all the garbage people post about science on the internet.

@EmilioPisanty true, yeah. It seems like you'd need to advertise such that there were a lot of users very fast, but only start advertising it once the site was built.

@heather that's not the worry I talked about. The people who would do the back-attacks already have a strong off-site platform, that's sort of the point. And to make the proposed site trustworthy, you'd really want everyone contributing with their own name, which leaves them very exposed to off-site attacks.

6:20 PM
@ACuriousMind sure. but again, I would point out that they don't need to read through the whole site. They might just comment (negatively) about only one article! Finally, there would also be good news sites, like Nature, that'd be positive to go through.

i.e. like the shirtless youtuber that JR is so fond of discussing here, but with an actual audience
2
chrissakes, why'd people star that?

Because we're evil

@EmilioPisanty I guess I would try to create a reputation system that allowed users to be anonymous (outside of chat) yet still respected; i.e., 10,000 points (or something) for providing a valid piece of university credentials, something only they as members of the university would know. Okay, that probably doesn't exist. But would that make any sense?

@heather I don't think it would. I think the idea only has merit if it is verifiably trustworthy by any external person, i.e. here's this person, they're a competent scientist, there's their google scholar publication record if you're interested, so on and so forth
Having that but keeping it under wraps doesn't help, I think
plus you need to consider that people will often review outside their field of expertise, and that will give mixed results but all you can do is provide enough info that the layman can decide.

true. okay, that makes sense.
so then we're back to the other problem.

6:25 PM
precisely

ergh
i don't know

Plus, you need to consider the fact that with any such system, you'll have at least some people with some way-off-track ideas providing commentary

yeah, also true
and you can't really censor the reviews

and as this site has made painfully clear, those people can turn any sort of gamification to their advantage

with a "not-mainstream"
unless you can?
i don't know

6:28 PM
@heather no, because your proposed site just got infected with a local instance of precisely the same wider problem it was trying to solve

6:42 PM
@JohnRennie Do you have any knowledge on ai.stackexchange.com/questions/2459/… as a nerd in computers?

@Copernic Are you on drugs?
What kind of question is that?

No, why?

> Does some chatbot chat on scientific forums as humans?
Damn, you're on to me

Is that freak?

@ACuriousMind LOL
@Copernic It's just a really bad question

6:45 PM
Why is it bad?

A "Global brain" sounds very stupid
Wtf is Gaia

see wiki

"Does some chatbot chat on scientific forums as humans?"
"Aren't we jailed by artificial intelligence on internet?"
What does the last one even mean?
"In other words how deep is AI evolved today and in the next hours?"

i mean an automated network taking control of our lives

In the next hour?

6:48 PM
To be actual
Things evolve so quick that I want my question remains actual

So you want someone to answer your question ever hour so it remains actual?

If Something change I would like to know

Okay buddy

Is that a so bad question?

I can assure you that there will not be a breakthrough in AI that enslaves humankind in the next hours. Where did you get these ideas? What have these questions to do with each other? How can someone be "jailed" on the internet? What is the "world cloud connexion"? There's just no actual question about AI here.
It's just a bunch of words that don't actually mean anything to someone who doesn't have your thoughts when writing this as context.

6:51 PM
^ He's more eloquent than me
@ACuriousMind Answer me a question here:
Does a relative generality exist?
How does laplace hamilton affect EM field in mars?
Does some theory explain everything that will ever need to be explained?
Aren't we jailed by Einstein?
In other words, how deep is Physics evolved today and in the next hours?
What advancements have been made in QM in the past 30 seconds
I want a canonical answer

Be nice and don't mock other users, please.

Damn you
MAKE ACM GOOD AGAIN

The answer to all of your questions, however, is of course 21.

@ACuriousMind Very good answer

Still just a half-truth, unfortunately.

7:01 PM
@ACuriousMind Good music

7:17 PM
@ACuriousMind
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7:40 PM
Note for all people interviewing for a job: Please be prepared for the interview by actually knowing the material needed for the job.
It's a waste of time for everyone if you're completely unawares of what is needed.
You would think this would be obvious, but I've had a fair number interviews this week where this was not the case :/

8:17 PM
@KyleKanos It's internship season; people apply to everything and only have time to practice for the kind of positions they really care about.

8:30 PM
okay, a good lunch and some chores later: i'm back
=)
@EmilioPisanty, okay, yeah, so...nvm about the site, that probably isn't exactly feasible.

@heather it's still a shame that it isn't feasible, though ;-)

yeah

@KyleKanos Give me a job

@alarge I suppose, but this job I've got is sorta dependent on strong math skills; if you don't have it (or aren't even aware of it), you probably shouldn't be applying for it
@BernardMeurer Earn it.

what sorts of math (out of curiosity)

8:44 PM
@KyleKanos I can dance, is that good?

@heather Stochastic calculus
@BernardMeurer No

what in the universe...*(::googles::)*
cool, that sounds interesting
"The best-known stochastic process to which stochastic calculus is applied is the Wiener process (named in honor of Norbert Wiener)" - poor guy.

Yeah, the guy earned a bachelors degree at 14 and a PhD at 17, definitely "poor guy"

@KyleKanos How would you know unless you apply? How do those applicants even pass your screening process?

@heather Though, if you're going on for the last name, it's indicative of a person being from Vienna
@alarge It says on the application page what is expected of your. Our phone interviews are our 1st round interviews, so that is our screen process

8:49 PM
yeah, i was going for the last name =)
I didn't realize that it was indicative of Vienna.

@KyleKanos Yes but surely you don't call everyone who drops you a CV; If it's obvious from the CV that it's not going to be a fit, just save everyone's time and don't interview them.

Etymology of words can be rather interesting

@heather Vienna actually is called Wien in German, so a Wiener is just someone from Wien originally. (Of course, no guarantee that people bearing that name today are from there)

@alarge There probably are rejected applicants prior to my calling them, but I'm not privy to those details
The one guy who really bombed the interview (i.e., couldn't answer a single technical question) had 3 BSs, 4 Masters degrees (two MS, an MA & a MEd) and 2 PhDs

@KyleKanos wat

8:53 PM
There's a couple people I work with who have 2 PhDs

@KyleKanos how?
I mean, he spent all that time and he couldn't practically apply any of it?

No, it's more that his expertises were not in the required background for the job

@KyleKanos WHo got a PhD at 17?

oh, that makes more sense.

@BernardMeurer Norbert Weiner

8:56 PM
P. cool
@KyleKanos Plz gib jobi
I'll babysit your platoon

I have a wife who stays home, not sure I need a full-time babysitter

@KyleKanos I could be you're wife's stay at home wife if you folks are into meta

Well, there's also the issue of you being a guy staying near my wife while I'm not there.

Is she eastern european?

No, she's American

9:00 PM
You have nothing to fear

My wife & I are rather jealous peoples.

@BernardMeurer Seems like you have to become an eunuch.

Dangit
I can't
Me being fed by my neighbour relies on my ability to perform

@ACuriousMind Probably would help, but no guarantees.

Dangit
It's hopeless

9:04 PM
At least hopeless based on the notion of getting a freebie from me
Learn stochastic calculus & C++ and you'll be set for a job in finance

Eh, Will develop useless C++ libs for money?
:P
Okay, I'll try

I'd like to think they're not useless

Mine are
Have you seen them?

Will you be my knowledge sugar-daddy?

9:06 PM
Those are two books I've liked
@BernardMeurer You're still at Uni, no?

Yeah
Just got in
Freshboy

So take some math classes on the subject, let the Math Profs be your knowledge sugar mommies & daddies

I can't pick courses outside of my program :/

That's a crappy program you're in

@BernardMeurer wtf are you doing taking that horrifying chemistry class, then?

9:08 PM
Quantum stochastic calculus is a generalization of stochastic calculus to noncommuting variables. The tools provided by quantum stochastic calculus are of great use for modeling the random evolution of systems undergoing measurement, as in quantum trajectories. Just as the Lindblad master equation provides a quantum generalization to the Fokker-Planck equation, quantum stochastic calculus allows for the derivation of quantum stochastic differential equations (QSDE) that are analogous to classical Langevin equations. For the remainder of this article stochastic calculus will be referred to a...

Are you telling me chemistry is not outside a software engineering program?

It's in my program

There's a way to study SDE's and Physics

@KyleKanos Yes, my uni is shit

stupid question: can't you transfer universities?

9:10 PM
@heather I can, but it's hard, mostly because I'm not the smartest; my grades aren't good
@ACuriousMind Chemistry is mandatory for Computer Engineering
6 ECTS

I...don't understand that

@BernardMeurer, you could come, to, I don't know, Iowa State University =P
Iowa State University of Science and Technology is a public flagship land-grant and space-grant research university located in Ames, Iowa, United States. Iowa State is classified as a Research University with very high research activity (RU/VH) by the Carnegie Foundation for the Advancement of Teaching. Iowa State is also a member of the Association of American Universities (AAU), which consists of 62 leading research universities in North America. Iowa State has also been designated an "Innovation and Economic Prosperity University," a designation awarded to only 54 public universities in the...
^great school
but I assume you don't want to move to Iowa.

@ACuriousMind Yeah, so now I have that chem course totally blowing up my GPA
and it kills my chances to transfer :)

Didn't Iowa beat Michigan?

i have no idea
I don't really follow sports
except baseball and rock climbing

9:12 PM
Yes they did
13-14

wrong iowa!

There are two iowas?

that's university of iowa. this is iowa state university.
and then there's also university of northern iowa.
so there's three iowas.

I wanted to go to VA Tech
which I got in for freshman year

There are sixty colleges and universities in the U.S. state of Iowa that are listed under the Carnegie Classification of Institutions of Higher Education. These institutions include two research universities, nine master's universities, and nineteen baccalaureate colleges, as well as twenty-one associate's colleges. In addition, eleven special-focus institutions and three baccalaureate/associate's colleges operate in the state. The Board of Regents, State of Iowa, a governing board, oversees the state's three public universities – the University of Iowa, Iowa State University, and the University...

9:13 PM
and couldn't go

@BernardMeurer, why not?

@heather 

VTech sucks anyway

Huh?

@BernardMeurer, oh, I'm sorry

9:15 PM
@BernardMeurer They don't actually. It's just I went to a competitor school of theirs (in terms of sports)
It's mostly reactionary that I say that

@KyleKanos, there's a game every year between iowa and iowa state. goodness, its polarizing. =)

@KyleKanos You went to UVirginia?

@heather Probably not nearly as bad as, say, South Carolina vs Clemson, Auburn vs Alabama, Florida vs Florida State
You know, teams that are perennially good
@BernardMeurer No

I'm testing something out using IBM's quantum simulator - is it possible to simulate a quantum channel on there? I'm looking at the bit flip and phase flip channels, but I'm not sure if the IBM simulator has the necessary gates @BernardMeurer
@KyleKanos, whoa, did you just insult iowa state/iowa!? ::shakes head in dismay:: seriously though, it's kind of nuts, and it would be even more so except for the fact that there aren't too many people in iowa. but at school, geesh.

@dmckee this is being uncivil already? I'll keep it in mind, but I have to say I am astonished

9:19 PM
@heather Yes, yes I did.

@KyleKanos, ::readies corn ear of vengeance::
::grabs pitchfork::

sigh It's taking too long for my near-100 answer to get the last 8 votes.

which answer? let me see if I've upvoted it.

It's been in the 90's for like a year
Pretty sure everyone that visits the chat room has voted on it

9:21 PM
The one downvote is also annoying

Recently bought a picture of Tsiolkovsky :)
It's right next to my picture of Alan Turing

none of my answers have passed 27 votes

@KyleKanos Upvoted.

The -1 came because the guy didn't like my use of $\Delta v\sim 11$ km/s

My highest is 46.

9:22 PM
that 27 really bothers me because it isn't at the very least an even number, though it is divisible by 3, which is appreciable, because 3 is a nice number.

@JamalS Yay!

@Sanya Well, admittedly I stepped in early just because I happened to notice it developing. But both sides were starting to attribute states of mind to the other, and that never goes anywhere good.

@Sanya, hello =)

Well I should have thawed these butt steaks a little more :/

@Sanya "Do some research" is okay. "Behave like a grown up" is bordering on a personal attack rather than a comment aimed at improving a post. There's nothing egregiously uncivil I can see, but that comment thread wasn't headed in a good direction.

9:24 PM
@dmckee well, I was honestly not planning to reply any further

@heather It is always interesting to hear how other people's inner numerologists think. Mine like prime numbers above all others.

and I have to admit to having gotten annoyed

@dmckee, yes, prime numbers are good, but the best are perfect numbers.

but well - I didn't have the feeling of being insulting yet - nevermind :)
@heather hey :)

6: divisible by 3, perfect number, even....*::sighs in satisfaction::*

9:25 PM
My numerologist is simple: Higher numbers = better :P

for stack exchange, yes.

@ACuriousMind I am with you!

@Sanya Don't take the deletion of your comments as an accusation. I have to delete all the comments in the developing argument.

@dmckee You mean "as"? :)

Yeah.

9:26 PM
Primes are very good types of numbers
Especially the ones of the form 1 mod 4

@dmckee I don't - sorry, I didn't want to be complaining actually. Sorry, I think my feelings did actually get the better of me. Sorry for bringing it up.

primes are boring

@Sanya Happens to everyone.

!!!! @ACuriousMind

Agreed, primes are boring.

9:27 PM
primes are NOT boring

Number theory in general is boring, minus the monster conjecture, the relation to modular forms and such :)

::readies giant mathematics textbook for smacking::
=P

Number theory is pretty fun

Geometry and topology is the *&!#

9:29 PM
People are allowed to dislike things like number theory & whether Lamar Jackson should have won the Heisman

@JamalS Yeah, I never understood why people get so worked up about number theory either. I like pure mathematics usually, but number theory is just boring if not used for something else

The world would be rather boring place if everyone simply agreed with me on everything
3
Also: without NT (or at least people interested in it), you wouldn't have secure communications

yay RSA encryption!
don't like primes: I'll take your bank account number =P

Because Ryan can't be here I'll stand by his point since heather will stand by mine
Number theory is meme maths

"meme maths" - ?

9:32 PM
Yes

what does that even mean?

@KyleKanos I can find the theory of something boring without saying it's useless

It's a meme
(I never got the real meaning out of this statement)

erm...at the risk of extreme embarrassment...what's a meme?

@ACuriousMind Hence the parenthesis bit ;)
A meme (/ˈmiːm/ MEEM) is "an idea, behavior, or style that spreads from person to person within a culture". A meme acts as a unit for carrying cultural ideas, symbols, or practices that can be transmitted from one mind to another through writing, speech, gestures, rituals, or other imitable phenomena with a mimicked theme. Supporters of the concept regard memes as cultural analogues to genes in that they self-replicate, mutate, and respond to selective pressures. Proponents theorize that memes are a viral phenomenon that may evolve by natural selection in a manner analogous to that of biological...

9:33 PM
-1

I'm new here, so I'm looking forward to learn a lot of things interesting about physics, and about how physics can help us to understand how works some part of our body, like retina, that is the subject of this problem. I have answered all the questions of this long problem with law of decay and...

Funnily enough, the spread of the word meme is itself a meme

^too broad? non-mainstream physics?

An Internet meme (/miːm/ MEEM) is an activity, concept, catchphrase or piece of media which spreads, often as mimicry, from person to person via the Internet. Some notable examples include posting a photo of people lying down in public places (called "planking") and uploading a short video of people dancing to the Harlem Shake. A meme is "an idea, behavior, or style that spreads from person to person within a culture". An Internet meme may take the form of an image (typically an image macro), hyperlink, video, website, or hashtag. It may be just a word or phrase, including an intentional misspelling...
This is the meme he meant I believe

@heather Given that it's closed already, yes too broad

Yeah, author seems batshit crazy.

9:34 PM
whoa, that got closed fast

Rightfully so.

how is math like an internet meme...
nvm, i'm just going to move on

Everything is like an internet meme

It's meme maths

@JamalS I dunno, that seems a bit much

9:36 PM
@DavidZ I can't believe they wrote all that anyway.

well, it was unclear, homework-like, too broad, non-mainstream...it fulfilled practically half the close reasons, if not more. and way too much text, and no mathjax formatting.
write the question that fulfills every single close reason...
ergh, i just want to test this error correction code! simulation of quantum channel, come to me...

@DavidZ Why don't we have the ability to migrate to history of math and science?

@JamalS What's the rate of migration between PSE & HSM?

@KyleKanos I don't know but since it doesn't seem to be a hassle, makes sense to have it as an option.

why not worldbuilding, would be my question - it seems like a not insignificant number of questions asked get told 'this is a worldbuilding question'
HSM, i've only seen that once or twice, honestly

9:39 PM
Looks like 2 in the last month

or engineering, that'd be another one.
@KyleKanos, HSM or worldbuilding?

As a general rule, migration paths are not set up to beta sites.

@heather HSM

@ACuriousMind Oh I forgot it was in beta.

@KyleKanos, ah, I see
@ACuriousMind, worldbuilding isn't in beta though, seems like that'd be a good one...

9:40 PM
@JamalS yeah, what ACM said. Plus, we only get migration paths that are frequently used and where the community has shown good judgment in deciding what to migrate.

and engineering

I am somewhat suspicious of migration to WB because that seems to be more about "How can I legitimately claim science thingy X in this world I'm creating for a story" and not about "alternative" physics that we often point towards WB

@heather Worldbuilding is pretty annoyed that a lot of people recommend questions to be migrated there that don't actually fit there
Giving users the ability to migrate there without mod intervention does not currently seem to be a good idea, imo

oh, okay
didn't realize that
this is why you should ignore most of my ideas =)

I think I might be able to hit 20k before September

9:43 PM
@KyleKanos You can hit that way before September 2017.

@JamalS I don't answer questions so much anymore, so I only get about 10-20 rep a week

@KyleKanos Well if it's your goal you can do it - just find time to answer in parts of the day that are free... Like on the loo :)

I work 12 hour days (including commute) and have 5 kids. "Free time" doesn't much exist in my life

@KyleKanos Physics is the top migrator to HSM, it appears, with about 38 or so questions sent to us over the past two years. Mathematics is the other big supplier.

Though I am on chat here, so maybe there is some free time

9:46 PM
@KyleKanos This term I was swamped with work, plus extra-curriculars, and I still managed to prep all 5 meals to eat daily, and train at the gym, even though it meant waking up at 5 am.

So, that's only a small fraction of the questions tagged on Physics get sent to us.

@KyleKanos I'm not a father though, I can imagine 5 kids hacks off a lot of time.

The older 4 do. The youngest is only a few weeks old now, so she's mostly still attached to my wife's hips

@KyleKanos Why so many kids?

@HDE226868 Well, we never decided to make history questions actually off-topic here, so they tend to stay here unless OP requests migration themselves.

9:48 PM
@heather What @ACuriousMind said - although to be honest, replace "Worldbuilding is pretty annoyed" with "HDE 226868 is pretty annoyed" in his message. We have the same issue that a lot of sites have - the questions that hit the Hot Network Questions list are the ones that get a lot of attention and are often off-topic, too broad, or otherwise flawed. That's not great, and it took a while for us to try to address the issue - that's our fault - but by then, the issue had grown.

@JamalS Why not so many?

@ACuriousMind I know; I started at least one of the meta discussions here about it. About a year and a half ago, I think.

@KyleKanos You're the one with no free time - why not have less kids, so you can have the perfect balance of free time + whatever fulfilment children offer?

I do spend my free time with them (they're currently watching TV while I cook dinner & the wife naps).
Most of my time is simply occupied with work where everything I do on the computer is tracked, so if I'm answering questions on PSE, then I'm not working & can get fired for neglecting work

@KyleKanos Are you good at cooking?

9:52 PM
@JamalS "whatever fulfilment children offer" sounds as if you're not a fan of the idea of having children yourself ;)

@ACuriousMind I will never be married or have children.

@JamalS I'm no Guy Fieri, but my meals are usually gobbled up by everyone
I do think I've mastered cooking (beef) ribs

Ooooh, I would kill for some ribs right now.

We actually need 2 full racks now to feed everyone

I can eat a full rack myself.

9:56 PM
When I was younger, I could as well

Today's my birthday; 19.

Happy birthday!

Thank you :)

@JamalS Happy birthday, then!

Danke :)
Damn, what am I doing in the hbar? :/

9:58 PM
And not a real bar?

Dunno, Sunday evening wouldn't be my choice of evening to go out, either

There was a circuit party in London last night but I was too lazy to go...

Anyone ever "play" Progress Quest?

Mondays are terrible enough without being sleep deprived or hungover already

@ACuriousMind I can't drink alcohol because of bodybuilding.

9:59 PM
Happy birthday to you
Happy birthday to you
Happy birthday dear @JamalS
Happy birthday to you
And many more...

^ ACM
(typographical error notwithstanding)

there shouldn't be an apostrophe!! ergh