The h Bar

0celo7

12:22 AM

@Slereah how would anyone here know

You're the only one who's drawn to esoteric shit

@DavidZ 👍🏻

Slereah

12:44 AM

@0celo7 Well you talk math all the time, I thought you'd know some math!

0celo7

1:54 AM

@Slereah I know real math

Slereah

Obviously not

John Rennie

4:52 AM

How on Earth did this get flagged as low quality? Have we got some malicious flaggers around, or is the review queue system seriously broken?

5

A: What are the differences in observations of comets vs. main-belt comets?

The key is that asteroids (including "main-belt comets") have very different orbits from true comets, and this says a lot about their history. Comets are located in the outer solar system. While they can occasionally be perturbed onto an orbit that takes them close to the Sun, these orbits are n...

peterh

5:29 AM

@JohnRennie 1 or 2 "Looks OK" flag makes a VLQ vote fail. It is clearly a tuning problem in the VLQ. It is an interesting ethical question, if it is ok to use the bugs of a system to optimize it.

John Rennie

@peterh well yes, and I voted looks OK. What puzzles me is how this got into the VLQ queue in the first place.

peterh

5:45 AM

@JohnRennie I think this question is like "why has been a Higgs boson in this bunch created and why not in the next?" in the LHC.

John Rennie

Some Googling later, it appears that the not an answer flag causes an answer to enter the VLQ queue. Presumably someone flagged the post as not an answer.

@peterh meaning that flags are randomly distributed? :-)

peterh

@JohnRennie Yes, they are quantum fluctuations :-) Btw, on the meta SE I have a "fan". If I post anything, it doesn't matter what, he votes it down. He does it very accurately, and on the time distribution of his downs I suspect he can be maybe in the USA. And I can't do with it anything. The SE Inc said many times very clearly, that they won't do with such problems anything until they don't step over some undisclosed limits. Maybe Chris White also got a "fan".

Secret

@JohnRennie They are putting EVEN MORE dark sectors into their theories. Hopefully other higgs will show up in 10 years time newscientist.com/article/…

John Rennie

6:04 AM

@Secret hmm. Well I'll read the paper, but from the abstract it doesn't sound compelling.

If anyone is interested the paper is here:

arxiv.org/abs/1607.06821

user54412

6:31 AM

> We introduce $N$ copies of the Standard Model

user54412

And I always thought it was about going beyond the standard model. Really it's about going beyond one standard model.

David Z

11:44 AM

@JohnRennie I wonder if it could be an audit?

Emilio Pisanty

12:14 PM

@DavidZ Since when do we have audits?

OK, so, honest question:

If the white circles weren't there, would those features still stand out?

(physics.aps.org/synopsis-for/10.1103/PhysRevX.5.021034)

John Rennie

The downvotes on this seem a bit mean. This looks awfully like the being mean to beginners that people have been complaining about recently:

-2

Q: Feasibility of an Experiment about Gravitation

Consider a surface with very little friction. We put two solid bodies on it and want to observe gravitational attraction between them. Now my question is, what is the least dimensions required for that bodies to show the effects of attraction(can be seen by naked eye)? I missed the shape and den...

@DavidZ Audit?

Jim

12:38 PM

@JohnRennie recently? As in they weren't complaining about that for the last decade or two?

Emilio Pisanty

244

Q: What are review tests (audits) and how do they work?

I recently received this rather amusing message while reviewing a user's first post: Congratulations! This was only a test, designed to make sure you were paying attention. This post has already been removed, but thanks for taking time to leave feedback for the author. What is t...

support faq review review-audits

Jim

@EmilioPisanty honestly, I didn't even see the white circles until you said they were there

Emilio Pisanty

@Jim Yeah

That one is a bit of a stretch =|

Jim

@EmilioPisanty I hadn't clicked on the pic. From the chat window, the circles are much less visible

John Rennie

1:29 PM

@EmilioPisanty Well, well, you live and learn. Thanks Emilio.

0celo7

> Do robo-reviewers dream of electric sheep?

What?

Sounds like a shitty PSE question

John Rennie

@0celo7 Philip K. Dick reference

0celo7

@ChrisWhite O $\LaTeX$ Wizard, how do I typeset these arrows?

Emilio Pisanty

1:47 PM

@JohnRennie No worries.

It's an SO thing.

They have huge review queues.

Close votes is something like 9k outstanding reviews at the moment.

Used to be 100k at some point.

And in a programmers' site, no less.

So people were doing automated reviews, or just about.

Hence the audits.

@0celo7 The arrows themselves, or the whole thing?

probably a question for the tex.se chat

0celo7

the arrows

David Z

@EmilioPisanty I don't know whether we do, but if we do, it's one plausible reason I can think of for a perfectly good question to wind up in the review queue.

Emilio Pisanty

$\to$

@DavidZ Sure. If we do have audits, then it's news to me, though.

$\stackrel{\delta_0}{\to}$ is also helpful

David Z

I lose track of which features are enabled network-wide and which are only on SO.

John Rennie

You realise I shall now approach every review with a large helping of paranoia

Emilio Pisanty

1:57 PM

I don't know how you stack them like that, though

0celo7

@EmilioPisanty me neither

Emilio Pisanty

@0celo7 seriously, try tex.se chat

David Z

Multiple uses of \stackrel, maybe

0celo7

@DavidZ that shrinks things

$\stackrel{\to}{\to}$

David Z

@EmilioPisanty honestly, even with the circles I don't see any noticeable features

0celo7

1:59 PM

^

Emilio Pisanty

@DavidZ Yeah, I was OK with it first time I read the paper but now that I go through it again it looks more and more like wishful thinking.

The features are probably there

but there's too much noise at this point

> This is currently active only on Stack Overflow, Server Fault, Super User, Programmers, Ask Ubuntu, Mathematics, and Puzzling.

Yashas Samaga

Anybody here has Irodov's Problems in General Physics?

Some kid comes and asked me to solve a kinematics problem and I kept getting the wrong answer... -_-

Emilio Pisanty

@YashasSamaga depending on how you feel on going to shadier corners of the net, gen.lib.rus.ec has a copy.

Yashas Samaga

I was typing the question here...

A ship moves along the equator to the est with velocity 30 km/h. The southeastern wind blows at an angle 60 degrees to the equator with velocity 15 km/h. Find the wind velocity relative to the ship and the angle between the equator and the wind direction in the reference frame fixed to the ship.

redivider

2:44 PM

I have irodov problems

0celo7

@EmilioPisanty inb4 v&

John Rennie

@YashasSamaga See the solution here

Emilio Pisanty

@0celo7 say again?

John Rennie

3:00 PM

→ 5 messages moved to Trash

@redivider: we probably shouldn't be providing links to pirated books here

0celo7

@EmilioPisanty In before you get vanned.

This type of slang is popular on the hacker website "the 4chan".

Emilio Pisanty

@0celo7 ... and you assumed it'd be understood everywhere?

It's not even particularly grammatical, text-speak or not.

0celo7

...

forget it

Emilio Pisanty

@0celo7 Sure, can do.

John Rennie

@EmilioPisanty grammatical? Did you expect it to be? :-)

0celo7

3:05 PM

I try to make a joke, you don't get it. I make a joke about the joke and you don't get that either :/

I don't know why I try to make jokes around old people

John Rennie

Old peoples idea of a joke

0celo7

Old British people.

John Rennie

The best sort of old people

0celo7

British is not an adjective in this context.

John Rennie

1

Q: Is "British" a noun or an adjective in "British PM"?

While reading through this question another occurred to me. If a headline reads British PM says no to inflatable cars. Is British a noun or an adjective? Granted, there are other noun forms of British but how about French in French PM says yes! The example from the original question q...

part-of-speech

0celo7

3:10 PM

I'm saying "British people" are disjoint from "people"

John Rennie

The set of British people and the set of people don't intersect?

0celo7

sounds reasonable?

Don't see why they should, a priori

vzn

@GPhys hear anything notable yet?

@Sanya fighting words

0celo7

Oh no, they do intersect

John Rennie

So I am in the intersection? If not, who is?

0celo7

3:16 PM

I'm afraid I cannot make an informed decision on you

@JohnRennie You know him as "that guy who always grins"

No, not the Joker

John Rennie

Jack Nicholson?

I honestly have no idea who "that guy who always grins" is ...

0celo7

Is he British?

John Rennie

No, but he grins a lot in The Shining.

0celo7

Always having a good time, that one

John Rennie

Farage!

Not who I would have picked as a representative of Britain.

0celo7

3:21 PM

@JohnRennie Me neither, but that's not the point

@JohnRennie what do you think of youtube.com/watch?v=ProbPpO_8oo

John Rennie

Listening now ...

0celo7

@JohnRennie No response

You're either listening to his entire catalogue or you're horrified

Or dead

John Rennie

I quite like it actually.

It's kind of trippy, which is the sort of thing I like.

0celo7

then try youtube.com/watch?v=E5ONTXHS2mM

John Rennie

Is there an album I can download?

0celo7

3:31 PM

@JohnRennie He has two singles and one mixtape. Very new rapper.

Google "New English"

And Panda is a crazy popular track (the one I just linked)

John Rennie

@0celo7 aha, I recognise that. It's been on BBC Radio 1.

0celo7

The lyrics are worthless, of course

They make little sense even if you understand them

John Rennie

Not really my thing though. It's more straightforward rap.

I was listening to "Billy the Mountain" by Frank Zappa this morning.

0celo7

Not sure what you mean

Are you saying this is straightforward?

John Rennie

It's the sort of thing I've heard a lot of on the radio.

The Timmy Turner track was trippier

0celo7

3:34 PM

Try "Travis Scott" then

Desiigner is generally considered to be a clone of Future and Travis Scott

The problem with Future is that his lyrics are too intelligible at times

Struggle bars like "tryna fuck the DEA lady in her mouth doe" are pretty cringey...

Especially when that's the only line on the track you can understand

John Rennie

Have you heard anything by George the Poet?

0celo7

Sounds British

John Rennie

He was on the nightime show a few days ago and I thought he was pretty good.

0celo7

what track

John Rennie

George The Poet - Cat D

►

Kind of misogynist though ...

0celo7

3:40 PM

OH GOD BRITISH RAP

John Rennie

You probably need to know that in the UK "Cat D" is a car that has been in a crash and was written off.

So a Cat D woman is, erm, well ...

0celo7

Probably less misogynistic than "Birthday Song"

John Rennie

Have you ever heard of John Cooper Clarke?

John Cooper Clarke - Twat

►

0celo7

> Speaking as an outsider, what do you think of the human race

savage

John Rennie

John Cooper Clarke is an angry man :-)

peterh

4:21 PM

@JohnRennie As I know, the MO can work because they have a contract with the SE. What means, somebody, probably some foundation or university, pays for the SE for the service. This results that they are capable to have much more freedom on the operations and they can guarantee quality as they want. It is a significantly different thing as the Theo Physics was (RIP). What do you think, could a similar initiative work also in the case of the Physics if it would be financially possible?

John Rennie

@peterh it depends what you mean by work. I think a revived Theoretical Physics SE would get very little traffic and be of intrest to very few people. If the SE were willing to keep paying I imagine it would stagger on but be of little relevance to anyone.

Yashas Samaga

@JohnRennie The answer given in the I.E Irodov's book does not agree with the solution link you gave. In fact I got the answer which agrees with the solution but the answers (end of the book) gives something else.

The book says the answer is 40 km/h.

John Rennie

Someone on Facebook just pointed out that todays date is $2^2/2^3/2^4$. Some people have far too much free time :-)

3

Yashas Samaga

I get the answer to be 26 km/h

I felt insulted when I failed to answer that question -_-

that feeling when you are taking a UG course in Physics and you fail to solve a high school relative motion problem... ugh.. the worst so far in my life

Emilio Pisanty

35

A: Who owns MathOverflow?

While the MathOverflow site is operated by Stack Exchange, Inc., the domain and the MathOverflow name are owned by the MathOverflow corporation. The MathOverflow corporation is completely independent from Stack Exchange and its mission is to ensure the continued operation of the site in a manner ...

John Rennie

4:35 PM

@YashasSamaga Aha! A south-eastern wind blows from the south-east not towards the south-east.

Yashas Samaga

AHAHAHAHHA.....

John Rennie

From the SE gives me 39.7 km/hr and towards the SE gives me 25.98 km/hr

Yashas Samaga

yes exactly! The original book says the answer to be 40 and I got 26 :D

nvm

John Rennie

There you go, I can answer questions on general relativity and high school physics :-)

Yashas Samaga

I was just pissed off, I spent 15 minutes in the class to check where I was losing a - sign in the vector magnitude equation. Students were watching me struggling... aw

doesn't the southeastern wind mean the wind is blowing towards southeast usually?

peterh

4:40 PM

@EmilioPisanty Thanks! Next question: what attracts a hardcore cutting edge researcher? I suspect, around these: 1) he can make his name better known 2) he can make his results better known 3) he will have an extraordinary communication channel to other scientists. Am I right? Are there other motivations, too?

Emilio Pisanty

@peterh As in, why do cutting-edge mathematicians participate in MO?

John Rennie

@YashasSamaga No. The compass point is always the direction the wind is coming from. For example in the UK the wind is predominantly westerly i.e. it blows in from the Atlantic in a west to east direction.

Emilio Pisanty

@peterh I don't think (2) holds at all.

But really you'd have to ask them.

@peterh On (3), if you think cutting-edge physics researchers don't already have communications channels to other scientists, then I'd really say think again.

peterh

@EmilioPisanty They are Big People and I am only a small layman :-) I won't bother them, but maybe I could ask a question on the meta MO.|Better known results won't result also better impact factor, which is an important reward to an active researcher?

Emilio Pisanty

@peterh No, it's a good question for meta.MO - just make sure you search well before starting a new thread.

John Rennie

4:43 PM

But then I was an RAF cadet when I was at school and we had to do navigation exams to calculate ground speed and direction from the instrument readings and known wind speed. So I've had practice :-) Mind you, that was 40 years ago.

Emilio Pisanty

@peterh On the better-known results, it would be a thing if MO were a place where you talked about your papers. It isn't.

@JohnRennie Heh. To be honest, I find the to/from question on wind direction (i.e. SE wind blows from the SE and not towards it) to be extraordinarily hard to resolve from memory and without resorting to Google.

John Rennie

In the RAF we had a slide rule thingy that did the calculation for you. I can't remember now how it worked, but you set up the wind speed and relative direction and it gave you your ground speed.

Effectively a mechanical trip computer.

Emilio Pisanty

50

A: How to write a good MathOverflow question?

Using MathOverflow should be an extension of the way you normally do mathematics, and the same rules you use to effectively solve problems can be used to make good MO questions. Just like solving problems, crafting good questions requires you to put in some effort! Ask a focused question that h...

↑ more from the meta.MO archives. It's really rather good!

John Rennie

> If you can't turn your question into a specific one, ask yourself what you hope to gain by asking the question. What concrete goal are you moving towards? If you can't think of one, then please don't ask the question. If you just want to know more about some area, read a book or an article or the Wikipedia page or Google for it.

As brilliant a summary as I've read. An aim we should strive for here.

Though if the concrete goal is getting an A for my homework that's less welcome :-)

dmckee

@JohnRennie I have a slide rule that was issued to forward artillery spotters in the US army during the Korean war era for directing fire in. The one I have is for directing in 155mm howitzer fire. They used to make a lot of different kinds of specialized slide rules.

Emilio Pisanty

4:50 PM

@JohnRennie Maybe "what you hope to learn by asking the question"?

John Rennie

@dmckee Cool :-) have you anyone in mind to bombard? :-)

dmckee

@EmilioPisanty "I hope to learn how to finish my homework." --Seriously, there will be users who answer that way.

rob

For wind direction, think of how an old-fashioned weather vane, with an arrow, and a rooster, works. The wind catches the tail of the arrow, so that the head points upwind.

dmckee

@JohnRennie Of course. But I don't have a artillery battery. ::sigh::

Emilio Pisanty

@JohnRennie The lack of a 155mm howitzer might prove what you'd call a crippling impediment in that regard.

@dmckee See, this is why we can't have nice things.

:31483830 Gun calibers is the other thing I've never been able to get from memory. Is it the diameter, or the length? ::off to google the thing yet again::

John Rennie

4:54 PM

Diameter!

As in rifles. 22s were the little ones and 303s were the ones that left a bruise on your shoulder.

Emilio Pisanty

63

Q: Happy 5th anniversary, MathOverflow!

MathOverflow first came online on September 28, 2009! Let's celebrate five years of MO! I bought a delicious cake from the best bakery in the area to have with dinner tonight. I'm sure you will also find your own delectable way to celebrate this anniversary. Some years ago, I asked community m...

discussion

John Rennie

That is 0.22" and 0.303" diameter bullets.

Not that we were all fanatically militaristic back in the 70s but, well, we were :-)

Emilio Pisanty

@JohnRennie See, that's where I get weirded out. 0.3" means 0.3×2.54 = 0.75cm, which... actually, yeah, I guess it's reasonable

But

0.45" = 1.15cm is the diameter of a bullet and you can still put that in a handgun?

0celo7

@JohnRennie I have teamviewer set up on a lab computer 10 feet away so I can monitor it from my desk

Minimal movement :D

@EmilioPisanty yes?

What's so crazy about that

Emilio Pisanty

@0celo7 Just seems too big to me.

John Rennie

4:59 PM

@EmilioPisanty that's what all the girls say

(sorry but that joke is compulsory at moments like this)

0celo7

@EmilioPisanty You do know that deagles are 1/2 inch, right

And SW500 has more power than a 3'' 12Ga magnum, IIRC

0.45 is nothing crazy

@EmilioPisanty I've heard rumors of a .600 pistol

John Rennie

The thing about the UK in the 70s was that we all wanted to be in the armed forces and kill people, but none of us wanted guns to kill people with in everyday life. In the US it appears to be the other way round.

0celo7

Basically a .600 elephant rifle with the stock and most of the barrel amputated

user54412

well, .45's are generally powerful enough that weaker adults can't control the recoil

0celo7

I guess if you're a badass you could have a 20mm pistol

There are 20mm anti tank rifles

Anzio

user54412

5:03 PM

@JohnRennie I never realized joining the armed forces was ever a trend there

0celo7

@ChrisWhite In a compact, many people have trouble with it.

John Rennie

@ChrisWhite back in the 70s pretty much every boy I knew was in the RAF or army cadets.

I have a solo gliding licence courtesy of the RAF cadets, though it's a bit out of date now

Though to be fair very few of us went on to join up

0celo7

"scurry" is probably the best word ever

@JohnRennie I'm having trouble with basic algebra

John Rennie

Ok, ask away though I fear your idea of basic algebra is at odds with mine

0celo7

I have this object $\omega$ with components $\omega_{\alpha_0\cdots\alpha_p}$

No, it's basically tensor stuff

And I want an object $\delta\omega$ that has $p+1$ indices

It's defined as follows: $$(\delta\omega)_{\alpha_0\cdots\alpha_{p+1}}=\sum_{i=0}^{p+1}(-1)^i\omega_{ \alpha_0 \cdots \hat\alpha_i\cdots\alpha_p}$$

where the caret denotes omission

I want to show that $\delta^2\omega=0$

clearly $$(\delta^2\omega)_{\alpha_0\cdots\alpha_{p+2}}=\sum_{i=0}^{p+2}(-1)^i(\delta \omega)_{ \alpha_0 \cdots \hat\alpha_i\cdots\alpha_{p+1}}$$

after that, dunno

I'm not sure how to insert the definition of $\delta\omega$

wait

John Rennie

5:13 PM

If $p$ is odd isn't the sum going to be zero

0celo7

frick

it should be $$(\delta\omega)_{\alpha_0\cdots\alpha_{p+1}}=\sum_{i=0}^{p+1}(-1)^i\omega_{ \alpha_0 \cdots \hat\alpha_i\cdots\alpha_{p+1}}$$

and $$(\delta^2\omega)_{\alpha_0\cdots\alpha_{p+2}}=\sum_{i=0}^{p+2}(-1)^i(\delta \omega)_{ \alpha_0 \cdots \hat\alpha_i\cdots\alpha_{p+2}}$$

@JohnRennie it should be zero for all $p$

The question is what $(\delta \omega)_{ \alpha_0 \cdots \hat\alpha_i\cdots\alpha_{p+2}}$ is in terms of $\omega$.

John Rennie

I thought you said: I have this object $\omega$ with components $\omega_{\alpha_0\cdots\alpha_p}$. What then is $\omega_{\alpha_{p+1}}$?

0celo7

Those are just slots

Like $g_{\mu\nu}$

and the $\alpha_{p+1}$ is $\sigma$

So $g_{\mu\sigma}$

John Rennie

Suppose $\omega$ is a scalar, so only one component. What does the expression for $\delta\omega$ expand to?

0celo7

I said it's like tensor stuff, these aren't really tensors

You need at least two indices

DanielSank

5:21 PM

Someone needs to write a document/article/whatever posing a simple but interesting quantum mechanics problem and then solve it with path integration.

0celo7

@JohnRennie For instance.

DanielSank

Don't think I've seen a particularly good example of functional integration techniques.

0celo7

@DanielSank Chapter 22 of Shankar?

John Rennie

I don't think I understand the notation. Why is the $i=0$ term $(-1)^0 \omega_{12}$?

0celo7

You omit $\alpha_0$

$\omega_{\hat 012}=\omega_{12}$

John Rennie

5:25 PM

Aha, got you. And for the $i=1$ term omit $\alpha_1$ and so on?

0celo7

$(\delta\omega)_{012}=(-)^0\omega_{\hat 012}+(-)^1\omega_{0\hat 12}+(-)^2\omega_{01\hat 2}$

$=\omega_{12}-\omega_{02}+\omega_{01}$

So I guess $(\delta\omega)_{\alpha_0\cdots\hat\alpha_i\cdots\alpha_{p+2}}$ is just that sum with that $i$ always omitted and then some $j$ omitted cyclically

AH

I got it

But when that $j$ passes $i$, you're jumping two indices

so your negative is offset by one

John Rennie

@0celo7 just as well, I have to go at 18:30 - in one minute!

vzn

@EmilioPisanty ? posted because... why? nice history but thats nearly 2 yrs old...

John Rennie

@vzn I imagine it's the answers Emilio means us to look at.

0celo7

So you get $$\sum_{j<i}(-)^i(-)^j\omega_{\alpha_0\cdots\hat\alpha_j\cdots\hat\alpha_i\cdots‌\alpha_{p+2}}+\sum_{j>i}(-)^i(-)^{j-1}\omega_{\alpha_0\cdots\hat\alpha_i\cdots \hat\alpha_j \cdots\alpha_{p+2}}$$

vzn

5:30 PM

@JohnRennie answers to what?

John Rennie

@vzn i.e. the answers to How is MathOverflow useful for you?

0celo7

So the sum omits all pairs equally

But with opposite signs

$=0$

wonderful

@JohnRennie Let the cohomology continue :)

vzn

@JohnRennie oh. looking back. n00b peterh seems to be a borderline troll...? didnt he get suspended already? :(

John Rennie

@vzn no I don't think that's fair ...

0celo7

where is @ACuriousMind when you need him

@ChrisWhite Wait, unless you know something about infinite direct sums/products and duality?

John Rennie

5:32 PM

At Wachen isn't he? Headbanging those long flowing locks.

0celo7

damn hippie

vzn

@JohnRennie not fair how? have been watching the transcript, think chatted with him last fri or so...

John Rennie

@vzn peterh has been interested in making the site work better, and he has made some challenging statements. However I think he is genuinely concerned to make the PSE better.

2

He seems open to reasoned argument, which is more than I can say for some of the chat room members :-)

@0celo7 I would guess that the life span of a hippy at Wachen would be, erm, limited :-)

0celo7

f************king category theory

John Rennie

From my experience of metal festivals (mainly Monsters of Rock/Download) they are a not a hippy friendly place :-)

Anyhow, I really must go.

user54412

5:38 PM

12

Q: How do I stack more than two arrows in math mode?

The command \rightrightarrows (from amssymb) draws two arrows, one on top of another. How do I get three arrows arranged in a similar fashion? An example of this (and other fancy arrow stackings) appears on page 3 of this paper, for which a source file unfortunately does not seem to be available....

math-mode symbols arrows

vzn

@JohnRennie ok sorry got him mixed up with lucas, hard to keep track sometimes

0celo7

6:01 PM

> "If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough" - Albert Einstein

Good quote? I think it's terrible.

John Duffield

If you cannot explain it to your grandmother, then you do not understand it yourself.

0celo7

What a load of crap

I cannot explain Pokemon to her because she's 86

peterh

@0celo7 The surface of the physics is not so hard. Everybody can substitute a speed to the relativistic length contraction formula, elemental operations and square root is known for 11 yr old boy in the elementary. But knowing the logic of the Lorentz-transformation, understanding how the $E=mc^2$ was calculated, it would require a long training for a high school student, and it is normally known only for University-level physics students.

John Duffield

@ocelo7 : But I can explain gravity to her. And how a magnet works.

DanielSank

@JohnRennie What suggestions were made?

peterh

6:15 PM

@JohnRennie Thank you! :-)

DanielSank

@peterh I hear you'd like to improve the site. When I first came here, I made quite some noise about certain policies I thought needed improvement, so I can see things from your point of view. What particular problems are you interested in addressing?

John Duffield

@peterh : IMHO the Lorentz transformation is in essence Pythagoras's theorem. See the simple inference of time dilation due to relative velocity on Wikipedia. The hypotenuse of a right-angled triangle represents the light path where c=1 in natural units. The base represents your speed as a fraction of c. The height gives the Lorentz factor √(1-v²/c²).

vzn

Jul 31 at 10:32, by peterh

@JohnRennie But, on my opinion, the Theoretical Physics shouldn't have been killed.

0celo7

@peterh I didn't have physics in mind

peterh

@DanielSank :-) I am only a thinking layman. In my opinion, questions are closed too eagerly, because a wish from the greater minds for quality went mad. Now it goes better, much better as a year ago. It is probably a CM effect. Now the problem is, that a mass of LQ content would probably expel the HQ minds, which is also unacceptable. In the Math, the similar problem is addressed by the MathSE / MO split, but it seems here nobody believes that a MO-like PSE site could here work.

0celo7

6:24 PM

@JohnDuffield My grandmother does not remember the Pythagorean theorem

vzn

@peterh what "article" are you talking about? (oh this one?) meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/251758/…

peterh

@DanielSank Here is a funny description of the main sociological structure of the SE sites (it is a link to an answer, I don't citate the question which is irrelevant in our context).

@vzn Yes :-) I am happy that you've read it.

user54412

@peterh There are two main reasons such a site would have problems.

user54412

The first is independent funding -- MO is funded by the Sloan Foundation (which funds all sorts of math and science in the US, but I always thought they stuck to more... official sorts of things). To replicate MO you need money.

vzn

@peterh tbh have studied SE "culture" quite a bit myself & am sympathetic to that... actually already had that post bookmarked along with many others related... might write a blog on it all sometime... actually do already have a blog related to the topic... there is a long ~~acrimonious~~ "colorful" history of the theoretical physics site which seems not to have been recorded anywhere... maybe some in the chat transcripts... and many deleted posts...

user54412

6:33 PM

The second, more insurmountable problem is interest. Mathematicians have a very different community from that of scientists. At the risk of offending someone, mathematicians simply have more free time to dedicate to something like this. It's just part of how to be a mathematician -- you have to let ideas simmer for a while, and spending all day "at work" isn't necessarily the best for productivity.

user54412

This leaves them plenty of time for softer pursuits aligned with their interest, like talking with other mathematicians in a glorified online chat room.

peterh

@vzn If you would ask LQ programming questions on the SO, I would close & destruct them, because you don't use capitals :-) But you give HQ answers and logic dictates it is an exceptional case. This is why I fixed your posts on the CS :-) ...until I've got to 200, what was my goal there. Well, I was a very LQ repwhore there, I must admit.

user54412

On the other hand, I cannot even begin to imagine most professional physicists having the time for such things, nor would it be seen as particularly reputable. The professors in my department work all the time. And that work is everything from building cameras to developing pipelines to running simulations to working out theories.

user54412

The first 3 of those tasks are in no way aided by spending time on stackexchange.

vzn

@ChrisWhite think you have some valid points in there somewhere but also suspect the idea that mathematician professors have more ("discretionary/ leisure") time than physics profs is a sort of "grass is greener" fantasy...

user54412

6:38 PM

The last one -- theory, which is like all of mathematics -- has some hope, but then the issue is size. There are lots of mathematicians in the world -- every school needs them to teach calculus after all. But there are not so many pure-theory physicists, at least I would imagine that's the case.

vzn

@peterh you mention HQ vs LQ content/ participants. that is indeed a challenge but it is probably not at all unique to SE architecture. think its quite hard to get experts/ authorities to participate in cyberspace in general, in any medium. some rare SE sites are mostly exceptions.

@ChrisWhite think there is some major/ strong similarity between the high abstraction mounted in math & physics fields. & the union is "mathematical physics" etc...

user54412

yes, but while all mathematicians do abstract thinking all day long, most physicists are experimentalists, and those that aren't are computer programmers (or sometimes both)

0celo7

Most physicists are experimentalists?

This chat would suggest otherwise

vzn

@ChrisWhite "most physicists are experimentalists," not sure about that... guess its about right but there is a sizeable/ somewhat massive theoretical physicist contingent worldwide...

peterh

@ChrisWhite As I know, being a reputated and accepted mathematician, also requires to have an impact, just as in Physics. I.e. they also need to be able to produce research for their jobs.

vzn

6:45 PM

nielson in his book "network science" mentions incentives. cyberspace is basically for volunteers and theres no $ in it & think thats a major factor in the widespread professional avoidance/ aversion & its general perceived low-status etc...

DanielSank

@peterh Good. In fact I was a part of the push-back against overzealous closing of "engineering" questions. Now, do you have any examples of overzealous closing? Do you have any suggestions for improvement?

vzn

@0celo7 youre definitely a "hybrid" ;)

DanielSank

@peterh Yeah that sounds about right.

0celo7

> The "repwhores" who answer everything they can (or can't).

user54412

@vzn The theorists certainly get all the attention. But the cynical part of me attributes that to having more free time to promote themselves. And every time someone talks about a high-level physics site, they seem to only want to invite string theorists.

peterh

6:50 PM

@DanielSank The main problem with that, that a single 50+ answer you wrote values more as the 50+ posts you help to destruct meanwhile. This is an ultimate reason to remain as polite as possible. But I remember quite well as I didn't know how to ask and I think massively closing the questions of goodstanding newbies interested in physics, it is also unacceptable. I also don't know how to solve this contradiction.

DanielSank

@peterh I don't understand what you're saying.

@peterh What's wrong with an answer I wrote being more valuable than answers I voted to close?

peterh

@DanielSank I've tried to fix my message. Is it better now?

DanielSank

@peterh I'm confused because it sounds like you're making two unrelated statements:

ritwik sinha

hi :)

''

DanielSank

1. You're saying something about one answer I wrote being more valuable than answers I helped close. I don't understand what you're talking about there.
2. You say you don't know how to communicate with new users, who have good intentions but write bad questions/answers.

@peterh about item 1, I don't understand what you're saying.

About item 2, I think I understand the real problem here: the close reasons are not good enough.

The "homework" close reason is particularly bad, as I explained in the meta. Please read that post.

I also think a lot of high rep users around here use the wrong close reasons very often.

peterh

6:56 PM

@DanielSank The PSE is a unique thing in the whole internet. There is a lot of things which simply isn't answered by the wikipedia, and also not the google, but only here. If you can make HQ content here, it makes your worth here so high, that it is not so big problem if you do meanwhile not so really good things, for example closing many goodstanding newbie questions en masse.

@DanielSank 2: no, I think I know how to communicate them. The MathSE can communicate with them, and although it worsens their mean quality, they are one of the top5 SE sites.

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