The h Bar

user54412

8:00 PM

It's in my nature to be biased against fads and popular things. I can't wait to see how curmudgeonly I become in 50 years.

0celo7

@ChrisWhite do you like Chick Fil A?

what about Breaking Bad

Slereah

Do you mean the show or actually cooking meth

vzn

@ChrisWhite agreed, cutting edge science sometimes goes down in spectacular flames. made a similar comment to DS on here. ie that "we both know dwave could blow up at any minute".

Slereah

Both are fine

ACuriousMind

@ChrisWhite You'll tell people to get off your Martian lawn ;)

user54412

8:01 PM

@vzn I can't keep track of who's involved in which project. But it's not just private rocketry that has me worried -- that's a solvable problem. Nor is it the feasibility of a return trip -- there are plenty who would go to Mars permanently, and more power to them.

user54412

I worry that we don't have the capability to get someone to Mars alive.

Slereah

Just say that there are terrorists on Mars

We'll be there by next year

vzn

@ChrisWhite agreed, think it is likely someone is going to die to/ from mars. but everyone is aware of the risks.

user54412

@0celo7 Haven't watched TV shows since high school.

0celo7

@ChrisWhite me neither!

vzn

8:03 PM

have you heard of "cubesats"? 1st ran into them this summer, was just reading about them.

user54412

@0celo7 Is it supposed to be popular? I though in-n-out was the only fad fast food.

Slereah

0celo7

@ChrisWhite Chick-fil-A is freaking huge

user54412

@0celo7 That's only because you're in one of 47 states without in-n-out

vzn

0ce are you saying chick fil a is a fad?

0celo7

8:04 PM

There are always people spending $8 at Chick-fil-A when there's a free dining hall one floor up

HDE 226868

Believe it or not, a question came up in Worldbuilders' General Chat about an Abstruse Goose comic. In the lower right-hand side, what are the matrices representing? Those are the only equations we can't identify.

2

Slereah

It just seems to be random linear algebra?

ACuriousMind

@HDE226868 It could be about population evolution - you can see the passage of generations as a kinda Markovian process and represent that as transition matrices.

HDE 226868

There's an arrow pointing to either the grass or the ferns, which look like fractals.

user54412

x is being forced/boosted by y, which is being unforced/diminshed by x

Slereah

8:07 PM

It's kind of hard to say since it has hard values in it instead of symbols

ACuriousMind

@HDE226868 Well, I can't tell why there's a Fourier series under the hills, either.

vzn

yes fractal equations are sometimes given as matrices. theres a fractal eqn for ferns. probably the idea.

Slereah

Or a quantum horizon

user54412

are ferns the weird plants that are primarily haploid?

Slereah

Also GR in the sky

HDE 226868

8:09 PM

@ACuriousMind It's supposed to be representing the sinusoid shape of the hills, I think.

@Slereah Gravity, along with Newtonian gravity.

in Worldbuilders' General Chat, 11 mins ago, by HDE 226868

@MonicaCellio Well, they got in Maxwell's equations (light), the Einstein field equation(s) (general relativistic theory of gravity) and Newton's law of universal gravitation (classical/Newtonian theory of gravity), Bernoulli's equation (lift),

in Worldbuilders' General Chat, 13 mins ago, by HDE 226868

the Schrödinger equation (quantum mechanics), what appears to be a form of the Navier-Stokes equations (fluid mechanics), nuclear fusion, photosynthesis, respiration, the general formula for a Fourier series, particle interactions, and some odd math at the lower right.

We also couldn't identify the specific particle decay chains.

Slereah

Those are cosmic ray reactions

user54412

Barnsley fern

The Barnsley Fern is a fractal named after the British mathematician Michael Barnsley who first described it in his book Fractals Everywhere. He made it to resemble the Black Spleenwort, Asplenium adiantum-nigrum. == History == The fern is one of the basic examples of self-similar sets, i.e. it is a mathematically generated pattern that can be reproducible at any magnification or reduction. Like the Sierpinski triangle, the Barnsley fern shows how graphically beautiful structures can be built from repetitive uses of mathematical formulas with computers. Barnsley's book about fractals is based on...

HDE 226868

@Slereah Makes sense.

Slereah

$user image$

That's the one yep

HDE 226868

@ChrisWhite Wow, thanks.

Jim

8:13 PM

Science! It works, female dogs!

3

Rigor

The Universe in a Glass of Wine (Richard Feynman Remixed)

►

Rigor

8:26 PM

Care for some wine^ @Danu?

Danu

Pretty nice

Jake1234

Hi guys, I've started learning physics on my own from feynman lectures on physics. Apparently, molecules are jiggling around all the time - I'd like to know exactly why this is - what are all the reasons for it happening? Other molecules pulling/repelling probably plays a role, but what if it's a single molecule? Will it still jiggle/vibrate or something?

Rigor

Simple answer: yes.

Danu

@yuggib Read some beautiful stuff on this recently

@0celo7 Do it! Kolmogorov is a really famous/awesome mathematician, and Russian-style books are great.

>There was a girl

LIES!

ACuriousMind

^lol

Rigor

8:35 PM

@ACuriousMind the outline of the hill looks like a sine wave master :P

Slereah

@HDE226868 Any more question on chronology stuff btw?

It is my favorite topic~

Jake1234

Ok cool. Then I wanted to ask - apparently there's a specific angle between the hydrogen atoms in a water molecule - but can the two hydrogen atoms "spin around" the oxygen one, with the angle between them staying the same? Is there some sort of force that causes it? Is there even a difference between this, and the whole water molecule spinning in place?

Slereah

Yes.

It's the rotational degree of freedom of water

The force is just regular old collisions

although it can happen other ways.

HDE 226868

@Slereah Nah, that's it. Thanks a lot for the help.

Slereah

Microwaves activate the rotational degree of freedom of water specifically, IIRC

Danu

8:36 PM

@yuggib arxiv.org/abs/math/9307227v1 and the response by Thurston (!!) arxiv.org/abs/math/9307227v1

ACuriousMind

Why do people always link to the PDFs?!

Rigor

As opposed to?

Danu

@ACuriousMind Cause FUUUUU

I'll change the URL's for ya, ACM

Slereah

"Is speculative mathematics dangerous?"

ACuriousMind

@Rigor The abstract pages

Slereah

8:40 PM

Will speculative mathematics steal our daughters

Jake1234

Slereah - is there a difference between this rotation around the oxygen atom, and simply the whole molecule rotating?

Danu

@ACuriousMind Done

It's not like it's hard to replace /pdf/ by /abs/ by hand

@Slereah Somethingsomething yo' momma

Slereah

Hey mathematicians, if you don't like speculative mathematics from us, how about you actually make mathematical theories for them!

user54412

@Slereah So this was the reason women weren't allowed to do math for the longest time

Danu

@ACuriousMind The reason one links the pdf's is because one links from the page one is on---typically not the /abs/ page

Slereah

8:41 PM

I'm all for a nice framework for path integrals!

0celo7

@Danu the reviews say the translation ruined that

Danu

@0celo7 Oh, really? Yikes!

ACuriousMind

@Danu Yeah, but don't you find it annoying to click on those links and wait for the PDF to load (granted, not that long on a good connection) to see what the link is referring to?

dmckee

Sorta funny to see a user with a penchant for making preachy and self satisfied comments about others not living up to the high and noble ideals of Science on a Pedestal (tm) receiving similar comments.

Danu

@ACuriousMind No, I really don't.

ACuriousMind

8:43 PM

@Danu oO

Jim

@dmckee damn, you trademarked it. I was going to use that name

Danu

@dmckee :D

@ACuriousMind All internet connections I'm typically on take ~1 second to load that.

ACuriousMind

@Danu But...that's one second of your life you'll never get back!

0celo7

@ACuriousMind he'd get them back by putting you on ignore: less chat posts to read

Danu

@ACuriousMind You owe me a great debt of time wasted ;)

user54412

8:46 PM

@Danu Maybe I prefer to download the source files and recompile on my system. You and your pre-made PDFs -- you're almost as bad as closed-source software. Next you'll be DRM-ing our music and reading our emails!

Danu

@ChrisWhite I am reading your emails

ACuriousMind

@Danu Lies and slander!

Slereah

"Physicists will go back to their traditional partners; rigorous mathematicians will be left with a mess to clean up; and mathematicians lured into a more theoretical mode by the physicists’ example will be ignored as a result of the backlash"

Those filthy physicists

HDE 226868

@Danu I didn't know you worked for the government(s). . .

Slereah

"Richard Feynman used to delight in teasing mathematicians about their reluctance to use methods that “worked” but that could not be rigorously justified "

:D

Danu

8:50 PM

@HDE226868 You don't know nuttin'

ACuriousMind

@Danu Lol, that's even more time wasted :P

Slereah

"This suggests a question : As they gain more experience, will these mathematicians also reject pure theorizing?"

0celo7

is anyone here really good at guessing recent songs

Danu

@ACuriousMind Who are you to say? Unless... Are you.... :: whispers secretively in ACM's ear ::

Slereah

WILL PHYSICISTS CORRUPT THE PURE MATHEMATICAL RACE

0celo7

8:52 PM

I have this song stuck in my head that I can't get to stop

Danu

@0celo7 I'm pretty decent, but I don't know most songs

@Slereah Note that the paper was written by physicists

HDE 226868

@Slereah That sounds like what Hitler would be like if he was a mathematician.

0celo7

I know it says "only" a lot, there is some substep in the background

and the music video looks like an LSD trip through a kaleidoscope

user54412

@0celo7 Well that narrows it down

0celo7

there's a lot of white and blue buildings, perhaps greece

Danu

8:53 PM

@0celo7 Errr... "LSD" by "A$AP Rocky"? lol

0celo7

female vocals

NeuroFuzzy

@FenderLesPaul I don't think that was me. I suggested GoT rains of Castamere!

ACuriousMind

@HDE226868 I imagined something more akin to a Dalek saying that :D

0celo7

the title has "only" in it

sung by a white woman if that helps

brunette

Danu

no idea

0celo7

8:55 PM

:/

HDE 226868

@ACuriousMind You got it:

Slereah

CROPPING

ACuriousMind

Why would you choose red for the text?

Slereah

Also is that Times New Roman

0celo7

are those dildos

Slereah

8:59 PM

bumpy dildos

HDE 226868

@ACuriousMind All other colors had worse contrast.

Slereah

ALSO CENTERING

And what is that horrible picture quality

ACuriousMind

@HDE226868 Mh, okay, I'll let that pass ;)

Slereah

Aaaah

HDE 226868

@Slereah Hey, I'm using Paint.

You try to turn a Wikipedia picture into a meme in <$|\sqrt{9}|$ minutes on Microsoft Paint.

0celo7

9:02 PM

@HDE226868 u wanna fite

can Canadians (not the hockey ones) even fite

ACuriousMind

@HDE226868 ...I parsed that as "heart minutes" several times until I got it right :D

HDE 226868

@0celo7 Eh, I'm an American.

0celo7

@HDE226868 huh

could've sworn you're Canadian

HDE 226868

@ACuriousMind There. Edited.

Picky ~~physicists~~ ~~mathematician~~ physics masters student.

0celo7

why ||

also ACM is not a physicist

ACuriousMind

9:04 PM

@HDE226868 Hah, very well :)

HDE 226868

@0celo7 Because -3 would also have been valid.

ACuriousMind

@0celo7 Because otherwise I would have asked how one can take less than -3 minutes to do something

0celo7

@HDE226868 no

the square root on a positive number is understood to give a positive number...

HDE 226868

@0celo7 Really? I've never seen that taken as read.

ACuriousMind

It's commonly understood, but since I was already nitpicking, it's safer this way

0celo7

9:06 PM

@HDE226868 so you see abs on square roots everywhere?

HDE 226868

@0celo7 No, I simply prepared for another quick reply from @ACuriousMind about -3 being valid.

ACuriousMind

@0celo7 Lies and slander!

0celo7

@ACuriousMind you're not

math grad students are not physicists...

HDE 226868

@0celo7 I did edit it.

0celo7

@ACuriousMind ok if you're such a physicist, do my reading quiz with me

ACuriousMind

9:07 PM

@0celo7 I'm not a math grad student.

Danu

@0celo7 He's not a math grad student, nor is he a physicist :P

user54412

I've seen the reverse argument: that $\sqrt{\cdot}$ should implicitly carry the +/-, since it clearly is referring to the algebraic root, whereas $x^y$ should be nicely behaved in $y$ and so is positive by default.

0celo7

@ACuriousMind math/whatever you're doing

same difference

ACuriousMind

@Danu ...not sure how I feel about that statement :D

HDE 226868

@ACuriousMind What do you do?

0celo7

9:09 PM

PoE

he does a lot of PoE :D

ACuriousMind

@HDE226868 I'm a physics masters student

Danu

@ACuriousMind Before completing the PhD I don't think one can reasonably claim to be a physicist :P

2

or at least before starting it

0celo7

rekt

dmckee

@Danu Meh. I assume you're ribbing him, but I have to say that anyone who has been published as a first author (even co-) can also make such a claim regardless of the state of their education.

0celo7

is ACM published?

ACuriousMind

9:13 PM

(I've not been published)

0celo7

REKT BY MOD

@ACuriousMind can we read your bachelor's thesis?

NeuroFuzzy

Is the 1+1 galilean group equivalent to mathbb{R}^2 under addition?

I say duh yes but I want to double check.

dmckee

@ACuriousMind In that case, perhaps we can say "Grovel, lesser person! You must pay dues!" Or something like that. Except that I know he know more about some parts of the field than I do.

NeuroFuzzy

Isomorphic to*

Slereah

1+1 Galilean would be like...

0celo7

9:17 PM

ur mum

Slereah

Translation, Z2 rotation and boost in one direction?

Danu

@dmckee Yeah, that's fair, I guess. Although it may be a bit too lenient in some cases (especially involving undergraduates publishing, which I hear is reasonably common in the US)

Slereah

The connected part would be R² I guess yes?

Oh wait

There's also time translation

NeuroFuzzy

Oh! Right!

Thanks. Yeah connected part.

Slereah

So more $R^3$

user54412

9:19 PM

@Danu not too common in physics in my experience, and much undergrad work that gets published only does so some time in grad school

Slereah

I found my first year master thesis mentionned in some presentation

Which is weird because it was total trash

dmckee

I've got a project I'm doing with some undergrads that I expect to publish in a decent, but not leading, venue either late this year or early next. But I'll be the leading author because they are working under close direction and the idea was mine.

I'm hope that one of them will think up some kind of really good extension and then we can publish that with a student's name leading.

Danu

@dmckee I wish professors would be into collaborating with me :(

Slereah

llr.in2p3.fr/sites/qgp2010/Talks/Mardi/OlgaDriga.pdf

p. 16

ACuriousMind

@0celo7 It's not published somewhere. If you want to read it, though, it's here (I already know there are several typos and imprecisions in there :P)

dmckee

9:23 PM

@Danu It helps the students that my school has no graduate program, so they are not competing with graduate students for places in the lab.

Danu

@dmckee Hmmm. Also, being into theory doesn't really help, I figure

0celo7

@ACuriousMind jesus christ that's complicated

IDK how you people work

that's just too much

ACuriousMind

@0celo7 Huh?

0celo7

@ACuriousMind way beyond me

i.e. I won't read it

I'll put it on my list

ACuriousMind

Well, it was also beyond me when I started it, the point of doing it was learning it

(i.e. there are no new results or anything in there)

0celo7

9:26 PM

I have to estimate how many water molecules from archimede's mathtub are in this soda

even that's too hard for me

ACuriousMind

@Slereah At least I now know where your username comes from

0celo7

@Danu I'm a Freshman and we're being encouraged to start research

Slereah

@ACuriousMind It's also listed in my SE profile

user54412

Archimedes had a mathtub? Where can I get one of those?

0celo7

Greece

Slereah

9:29 PM

@ACuriousMind : Your thesis seems nice

I like how it starts

NO MERCY

Danu

@0celo7 Like I said, in the US it seems more common.

Slereah

None of that introduction, it's all TAKE A PARACOMPACT MANIFOLD WITH A STRUCTURE BLA BLA BLA

Danu

@0celo7 Also I think it's pretty fair to say that 99% or more of students won't be able to contribute anything significant to theory in theoretical physics/mathematics during their undergraduate degree.

Slereah

One thing I'd like to see someday is a paper with a title like "why does an apple fall down" or something

ACuriousMind

@Slereah lol...you can actually skip most of that, it isn't terribly important for what's actually done later

Slereah

9:32 PM

And it starts just like that

Apples falling from QFT in curved spacetime

Not sure how you'd describe an apple wavepacket tho

ACuriousMind

...and what if the apple has a wormhole?

Slereah

It would probably work best with a crystaline structure

"Why does an iron weight falls down"

Just build it all from QFT

0celo7

GOT IT RIGHT

$\sim 10^6$

@Danu thanks for that vote of confidence

I was going to stop by Mr. String Theory (can't remember the prof's name)

now I won't...

Slereah

THE TIME EVOLUTION OF THE WAVEPACKET OF THE CRYSTALINE STRUCTURE IS SHOWN TO SWITCH ITS MAXIMUM TOWARDS $r \rightarrow 0$

And that is why an apple falls

0celo7

@Slereah because Yukawa?

Slereah

9:36 PM

Is an apple a scalar field

Danu

@0celo7 Don't let me influence you :P

Slereah

I guess the hardest part would be showing that the nuclei are stable :p

0celo7

of course an Apple is a scalar field

Danu

@Slereah Don't ever talk about that when I'm around!

0celo7

what else would it be

@Danu huh

Slereah

9:37 PM

The study of apples is apology, of course

3

Danu

@0celo7 Trauma from MQM

Slereah

MQM?

0celo7

mum quantum mum

Rigor

@Slereah A mathematician's apology?

0celo7

some German thing I guess

Danu

9:39 PM

@Rigor That paper is so wrong on so many points---yet it is interesting.

0celo7

@ACuriousMind huh? I don't get it

Rigor

@Danu don't EVER say that in the math room pal :P

Danu

@Rigor Come on. Really? How many people have actually read it?

Jake1234

I'm sorry about asking this again, but it's still unclear to me. Some molecule, say water molecule, can the the thing rotate around a specific atom, or is it only possible for the whole molecule to rotate around it's center of mass? Is there any use in differentiating this/is there such a thing as "direction" of an atom/does it matter?

Danu

It's super naive and "romantic" about mathematics and its purpose etc.

Rigor

9:41 PM

I have read it.

Danu

...so do you disagree?

Rigor

Partially :P

Danu

I wrote a pretty long essay on the beauty of mathematics, using it as a starting point.

So I put a lot of thought into it :P

user54412

@Jake1234 Thinking semiclassically, the difference would only be whether or not the angular momentum of pivoting atom was contributing. But the moment of inertia of the atoms not on the rotation axis is far greater than the moment of inertia of a nucleus about an axis going through it, so the difference is small.

Rigor

@Danu care to share?

ACuriousMind

9:44 PM

@0celo7 Look at the page slereah referenced. Then think.

Danu

@Rigor It was written for a non-mathematical audience and consequently of little interest to anyone seriously interested.

ACuriousMind

@Slereah mathematical quantum mechanics

0celo7

@ACuriousMind I am

Slereah

oh

What QM is not mathematical?

2

Danu

@Slereah Have you taken undergrad QM? :P

ACuriousMind

9:45 PM

@0celo7 And you seriously don't see the connection between Samuel Lereah and Slereah?

user54412

@Danu I haven't read it in a while, but I'm curious what you most disagree with in it.

0celo7

@ACuriousMind uhm I don't see Samuel Lereah

HDE 226868

Wait for it. . . Wait for it. . .

Rigor

@Danu me too.

0celo7

oh page 16

there we go

Danu

9:47 PM

@ChrisWhite To mention one thing, he asserts that the value of scientific knowledge in general seems to vary inversely with its utility to the layperson

Slereah

I come from a simpler time

user54412

Aug 18 at 18:02, by 0celo7

I am an idiot

Slereah

Back when you didn't care if people knew your real name on the internet

2

Rigor

Good point ^

Danu

@Slereah Join the club ;)

user54412

9:49 PM

Hmm... I remember growing up in the 90s and being told that if you gave out your real name on the internet, a child molester would show up at your door.

Danu

@ChrisWhite Seems legit

Rigor

lol

Slereah

I tried and I tried but he never came :(

2

user54412

I actually feel perceptions have improved.

Slereah

Am I that ugly

See, the problem is

Back then, we feared child molesters

0celo7

9:49 PM

@ChrisWhite why are you so mean

you people are all so mean

Slereah

Nowadays, it's my employer I fear finding me on the internet

A much scarier prospect

0celo7

@ChrisWhite my mom still tells me that

Rigor

@0celo7 come on pal don't be so sensitive

Danu

@Slereah "Hi there, I'm Chris Hansen from Dateline NBC..."

0celo7

more like Chris Handsome

pls someone get the reference

Slereah

9:51 PM

I do

0celo7

otherwise that's just awk

Slereah

I like you, and I want you

user54412

@Danu Sometimes you have the most American references.

0celo7

:D

Danu

@0celo7 ...you think Chris Hansen is sexy?

Slereah

9:51 PM

Now we can do this the easy way or the hard way

0celo7

I'M A WARRIOR

Danu

@ChrisWhite I know right?! I actively try to come across as American, in some sense.

Slereah

@0celo7 Did you know he is based on a real guy

ACuriousMind

@Danu ...why would you want to do that?

0celo7

@Slereah I've watched it many times

Danu

9:52 PM

I'm quite proud when native speakers mistake me for an American based on accent.

@ACuriousMind ^

0celo7

@Danu if you can believe it, one German says the same about my German

Rigor

Proud?

Danu

@0celo7 ERROR ERROR

@Rigor Yeah, seeing as I'm actually not a native speaker.

Rigor

Cool

Do you talk fast?

0celo7

@Danu sorry I made your brain die

Danu

9:54 PM

@Rigor Err... same as most people speaking English, I guess?

Rigor

Brits talk fast.

Compared to a southerner of the U.S.

I can't even type fast :(

0celo7

@Rigor don't be so mean

Danu

@0celo7 Don't be so insecure

Rigor

What did I say @0celo7 ?

0celo7

@Rigor I couldn't come up with anything better to say

Rigor

10:02 PM

icic

0celo7

I actually provided that quote for instances where I was dumb

but these Fermi problems for HW are really making me mad

Danu

@0celo7 Cool, that they make you guys do them!

although I can imagine it kind of sucks to have to do them

0celo7

the archimedes one was hard

I eventually just made a ratio (bath water)/(earth water) and did dimensional analysis :P

@Danu they call them "engineering estimates"

our first group project is to estimate the number of bricks in the new plaza and how much each one gets stepped on

Danu

@0celo7 Depends on whether they're on the ceilings or floors (unless you're counting steps of flies!) :D

0celo7

@Danu we also have to draw a plot of some sort for which ones get stepped on the most and which the least

it's really quite involved

Rigor

10:08 PM

@0celo7 that's perfectly acceptable };-)

0celo7

now the "how long does it take to mow a football field by hand" one sucks

because I worked in meters

and I forgot to switch back

Rigor

Come on: it IS a game of INCHES :P

0celo7

I meant switch back to KM

I had the mowing speed in kmh

Rigor

/

0celo7

well not "back"

forget it

Rigor

10:15 PM

Yes, "back". Because originally the units were empirical.

0celo7

what is the average tire diameter in the US

Rigor

What is the average car?

0celo7

I'm guessing it's 21.5 inches

YOLO

channeling Fermi

FenderLesPaul

11:14 PM

@NeuroFuzzy ah yeah

it was HDE

my bad!

Rigor

Whose bad?

:P

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