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12:29 AM
@vzn I have yet to see or hear anyone on a cluster using something that isn't Fortran 90+, C, or C++ for heavy computations
And I would argue that the "mainstream languages" are the ones diverging from HPC as programming languages were developed for fast calculations in the first place!
 
vzn
12:57 AM
what you say may be true for scientific comp but note a lot of cluster computing is not nec sci comp nowadays. eg google. & amazon cloud. (a significant part of latter is serving up netflix movies) etc
also the sci comp is not nec leading all the innovation in cluster computing.
eg hadoop/mapreduce in major use now.
also a lot of clusters are serving as dbs
eg memcached is used heavily by facebook.
 
Server /= cluster
 
vzn
there are many server clusters.
 
You're using a different usage of cluster than I
You mean it as any collection of computers that work together as a single unit
 
vzn
cluster is a generic term used across industries
 
I mean it as a collection of nodes for high performance computing which generally applies to computers like the K computer, Sequoia, Stampede, etc
 
vzn
1:03 AM
terracotta ehcache also used in clusters etc
scicomp is another use of clusters not nec the main one counting all the clusters out there
 
But HPC clusters are the ones that us in physics will be talking about
 
vzn
scicomp is cool but not nec "center of universe" wink
you may see some of the more cutting edge cluster type software innovations work their way into scicomp. although scicomp does seem conservative that way. in the ways you espouse. earlier languages etc.
FPGAs seem to be a bigger deal nowadays too.
 
Actually, I'd argue that HPC clusters are what drive innovations in cluster design
 
vzn
there are multiple lines of innovation. they mix.
 
And the reason to keep the older languages is because (a) they work and (b) MPI support exists for them
 
vzn
1:08 AM
it would be interesting to attempt to survey boundary-pushing/crossing scicomp apps, they are surely out there.
yes legacy systems will be around forever. incl cobol/lambda calculus etc :\
 
GPU computing developed because of the history of GRAPE
 
vzn
working in java myself which is verging on a legacy language in some ways... :|
 
Most programming languages are older than their bulk users
 
vzn
coming up on 2decades old next year 2015.
 
Python & Perl are products of the late 80's/early 90's
 
vzn
1:11 AM
work in swing at times which is nearing legacy status. java seems not to be enhancing it any further for yrs
perl ugh hah
larry "there should be lots of ways to do the same thing" wall
linguistics major. it shows lol
 
I hate $a = 1.0 and @a = (1.0, 2.0, 3.0)
for variables in Perl
it's just plain ugly
 
vzn
←wrote perl code several yrs during dotcom/web melee
 
I feel sorry for you :D
 
vzn
liked it more than alternatives at the time :)
it was cool not compiling it & getting it into prod systems :)
CGI etc
so yeah though HPC is fun to track. moves quickly.
what a shocker few yrs ago when china had the top500 supercomputer shew
 
It didn't surprise me. They just wanted to be tops for whatever reason
 
vzn
1:17 AM
lol maybe using it for bitcoin
are you doing GR calcs?
 
Nope
No GR for me
Plain Euclidean geometries (Cartesian only)
 
vzn
oh right got you mixed up you said CW was doing GR or something
so was thinking. do your simulations track fluid particles or something?
 
Not really
 
vzn
re GPU above. they were initially developed for video games dude. hardcore pc gaming.
 
So we map all the hydrodynamic variables (density, velocity, pressure) onto a grid (1D, 2D, or 3D depending on the problems)
 
vzn
1:21 AM
nvidia saw a math computing market so they opened up their (initially closed) standard.
 
@vzn GPU computing = CUDA/OpenCL
 
vzn
CUDA yes, it was a later addon to GPUs which were already widespread with games. (raytracing)
 
Anyway....our work stores information about the cells of the grid in a 4D object
 
vzn
GPUs were used a lot for bitcoin mining up until not too long ago
btw lattice = grid afaik
you have a 3d space grid with variables at each pt (eg density), something like that?
 
I see lattice & think finite element method, which cannot handle the strong discontinuities in variables
@vzn Yes, pretty much
 
vzn
1:26 AM
was just reading cool article on black holes in discover... figure someone somewhere is modelling them...
maybe not so different than star models...
 
Plenty of people are modeling them. What they do is different though
I'd like to think that the extreme gravity and lack of nuclear fusion might make it very different from star models :D
 
vzn
maybe some fluid dynamical looking eqns dunno
 
I doubt it.
You have to use GR to model a black hole
You don't for stellar models
 
vzn
hmmm
ok
 
vzn
1:43 AM
do you know what kind of hardware your clusters use? are they rackmounted? at a datacenter? etc
 
It's at some data center nearby. It's mostly 8-core Intel Xeon's with 12/16 GB RAM
16k total processors on 1600 nodes
There's a couple 16-core and 24-core nodes
The usage page says It is a 218 TB PVFS2 filesystem divided amongst 32 PVFS2 servers
 
vzn
2:13 AM
nice
is that a university system?
 
Yes
 
vzn
which one?
 
Clemson
 
vzn
used illinois supercomputer yrs ago iirc
ncsa supercomputing center or something like that
palmetto?
 
Yessir
 
vzn
2:18 AM
impressive, #7 june 2013 top500 academic supercomputers, cool
says theres a lot of nvidia teslas, do you use those?
 
I do not
A friend of mine actually works on the OrangeFS with Palmetto. I asked him once how many people use the nVidia's. His response was laughter followed by, "almost no one"
 
vzn
huh wonder why that is
hard to code?
 
Probably due more to lack of programmers who actually use it
I mean, if you have your own GTX, what do you really need a cluster for?
 
vzn
wow dude there are like 6 404s on this page "clemson CITI group" maybe let someone know :p
 
Meh. They're mostly useless at doing anything
 
vzn
2:28 AM
6/11 not so hot :o
lol
admins/bureacrats gotta luv em
same over here hah
my mgr interviewed/extended job offer to contractor, new VP/CTO type nixed it after candidate accepted & was ready to start lol
actually my mgr is technically "sr director" :\
have you heard of deep learning? way cool stuff, looking into it lately, a big use of cluster/scicomp/machine learning etc
cutting edge stuff.
 
I've heard of it
But I'm also strongly opposed to AI
 
vzn
excuse to plug it :)
"opposed?" lol
have been meaning to blog on this sometime again
 
We're totally going to have machine overlords if we develop AI
 
vzn
opposed to skynet also :p
that reminds me of funny dilbert column by scott adams circulating recently
he thinks bitcoin is the machine AI takeover master plan lol
have you heard of that new movie transcendence? cant wait
 
I don't pay much attention to movies these days
 
3:35 AM
@vzn Nah, none of them work. If you rely on a third party to give credit like the BOINC project, then you essentially give them ability to print money and hacker can simply hack the system.
@vzn haha, you just remind me the gmail beta for a long time without people notice that.
@vzn The magnetization is well known fact that undergrad student learns it.
It can be easily understand that every tiny magnet prefer to align will its neighbor, if the interaction is strong enough. Then they will permanently align with each other and no one can point to opposite direction.
The phase transition does relation to P/NP transition because the physics is the hardest to solve at the phase transition point.
BTW, what do you think about the D programming language in general usage?
 
3:51 AM
@vzn lattice != grid. Lattice always has regular pattern, such as translation symmetry.
 
vzn
4:31 AM
kyles experiment might have translation symmetry...
still not exactly following the difference...
re bitcurrency based on "proof of work", its not so simple as "relying on 3rd party to give credit". it sounds like a cryptographic problem to me. note bitcoin is a solution to a cryptographic problem called "the byzantine generals"...
yes have studied P/NP phase transition quite a bit.
a P!=NP proof might have a physical meaning as far as showing there is a definite limit on the speed of demagnetization during cooling. (still sketching this idea out...)
havent used D yet.
my latest new "language(s)" are jquery/css/html5 etc :p ...
btw heres that johnny depp movie re AI taking over
reminds me of old steven king movie "lawnmower man"...
kyle, what is a GTX?
 
4:59 AM
@vzn could you help me with an easy problem?
 
5:17 AM
@vzn See the picture of the grid there using triangulation en.wikipedia.org/wiki/…. It is grid, but not lattice
lattice is supposed to have very regular and periodic structure, like square lattice, trianglar lattice
@vzn I don't think they work at the moment, the current trust relying on the deterministic random number which is very easy to verify so it has the least known problem
@vzn I agree that NP problem should have physics meaning, but it still won't change physics. But it will make classification easier.
@vzn I think that a hard core computer scientist use functional programming such as lisp, but not these "fancy" language :)
 
6:16 AM
A particle have two properties mass and charge. Which property gets smoldered in quantum mechanics?
 
 
3 hours later…
8:56 AM
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Q: Why is it easier to break a tightened or stretched string than a loose one?

Awal GargI want to know, why is it that it is easier to cut through a string which is tightened then a loose one? The question arose when I was watching - "What Happened Next?". In a part, they showed two clips, each one demonstrating the crash of rotor blades of a helicopter with a cable horizontally ha...

Please upvote it. I am reputation hungry
And why was the following closed? I think the second part is interesting (But I am not sure if it should be at Physics.SE or not)
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Q: Mistake in Briefer History of Time by Stephen Hawking

Awal GargI was reading A Briefer History of Time by Stephen Hawking and Mlodinow. I found something silly. On page 36 at the bottom, it says the following : If, say, the sun suddenly disappeared, Maxwell's theory tells us that the earth wouldn't get dark for about another eight minutes (since that is ...

The contradiction between the first and second book is worth noticing, isn't it?
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Awal GargI saw a TED Talk. You can watch it here on Youtube for your convenience. At 07:17, he introduces a toy made with a pencil on which, a few notches are present; and on rubbing them with something, a fan attached to it rotates.(See transcript at TED if you are unable to watch it.) And it is funny ...

That was all, thankyou
 
 
4 hours later…
1:28 PM
@vzn GTX is a line of nVidia graphics card: nvidia.com/gtx-700-graphics-cards
@vzn There is some respect of translational symmetry in my problem.
 
2:07 PM
0
Q: Can not find edit request that I had skipped

Volker SiegelI skipped a proposed edit on http://physics.stackexchange.com/a/107909/42975 because I was editing myself quite a lot. Now, I want to manually apply the useful fixes from it, but can not find the skipped edit diff. Where to look?

 
2:39 PM
Oh, I got one upvote and one downvote on physics.stackexchange.com/questions/102255/…
That did increase my rep by one, but, the question score is still -1
 
vzn
3:12 PM
re GTX site a bit amusing.
game ready!
next-generation graphics cards designed for the ultimate gaming experience.
 
Yep...all of those GTX cards are CUDA-enabled which means you can pay $500 and get virtually the same speed up as the $5k Tesla's
The biggest difference between GTX and Tesla is the support for double precision
 
vzn
wow ~10x the cost for double precision
 
Yep
Worthless really
I think, though, that the support for DP exists on the GTX's, but it's just significantly slower than with SP
 
vzn
so DP is too slow to be much usable youre saying?
 
I believe so
I don't use GPGPU for my own research, but I briefly investigated it about 1.5 years ago
As soon as I saw DP wasn't supported I gave up interest
 
vzn
3:19 PM
yeah it is not achieving all the scientific promise that was anticipated partly due to restrictions on it... it maybe supports some problems... mainly good for high thruput matrix algebra/computations afaik
unf not huge amt of problems reduce like that
14 hours ago, by Kyle Kanos
I see lattice & think finite element method, which cannot handle the strong discontinuities in variables
are you saying a grid is used instead in that case?
 
@vzn I suppose technically they (lattice & grid) are both grids in the sense that they take continuous space and break it up into discrete chunks
But the method by which you move fluid properties along the discrete chunks are entirely different
And it is the finite element method itself that cannot handle discontinuities where as the finite volume method can handle the discontinuities
 
vzn
you guys are saying the lattice is much more regular, understand that
←implemented runge kutta solver many yrs ago & applied to lorentz eqn for numerical methods class
 
You probably used a finite difference engine for that
It's similar to the finite volume method, except finite volumes take into account particle transmission of the information by computing cell averages via linear/parabolic interpolations
 
vzn
(skimming FEM vs FVM on wikipedia)
 

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