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1:56 AM
@LuckyChouhan miao miao was the one putting the stars for them
 
1 hour later…
2:57 AM
This was my shower thought few years ago, but:
What if dark energy is an artifact from particles with negative mass?
They repel everything else with nonzero mass, right?
@naturallyInconsistent Okay... Who the heck is this "miao miao"? I thought y'all were referring to the cat in my profile picture.
@DannyuNDos me
@DannyuNDos you would then need to explain why it is so uniformly distributed.
@naturallyInconsistent I think, it becomes what we call dark matter when it's unevenly distributed.
@DannyuNDos That cannot be. Dark Matter is attractive
Oh... Nvm.
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Hello Everyone...
Why minus sign in change in potential energy? Is there any logical answer.
3:11 AM
What if dark matter is absence of the negative masses?
Like, how holes are absence of free electrons.
@123 when I answered you in the other chat, you didnt read it
@DannyuNDos are you talking about in condensed matter or in the original Dirac equation's trickery?
Uhh... Both?
Leaning to the former, I guess?
3:28 AM
In the case of condensed matter, the sea of electrons is actually there, and holes is just a convenient mathematical trick that obviously works. You do not have a degenerate amount of matter for this trick to work in the universe.
In the case of Dirac equation's trickery, that is even worse. There is no way to make that trick work.
I think, particles with negative mass cannot have charge, color charge, nor parity. Perhaps that's why we have never detected them.
By lacking charge, they don't interact with light, and by lacking color charge, they don't interact with gluon, and by lacking parity, they don't interact with W/Z... right?
The parity v.s. W/Z is wrong. The premise that they cannot have those things is also wrong but you can at least entertain that.
I mean... Consider the "paradox" about a positive mass and a negative mass being tied to a wheel. The paradox claims that the wheel will angular-accelerate forever. But if the negative mass consists of chargeless particles, it cannot be tied to the wheel from the first place, because normal force is an artifact of EM.
3:46 AM
There is no reason why we cannot have negative mass charged particles
What's your solution to the paradox then?
3:58 AM
I don't think there is a paradox, nor that it needs solving if there is a paradox.
4:12 AM
@ACuriousMind I don't know why you said that. The 21cm line is pretty important to astronomy. Even without astronomy, precision measurements of the H atom is so important to so many parts of physics that I'm sure we have covered all kinds of, say, finite nuclear size and mass, high order QED corrections, proton spin, etc.
@imbAF You keep asserting that $\left|j,m\right>$ is an eigenstate. It is not even a possible state. The only possible state that you are referring to is $\left|j_1,j_2,j,m\right>$, and you should stop asserting wrong things.
@SillyGoose you too
@SirCumference That is partly because there is no possible way to make a tolerable presentation of the same thing in SR and/or QM. In SR, you would need to already know the full energy expression in order to show that the theorem works, in which case it is absolutely useless. In QM, you cannot define forces. There is simply no place for that in modern physics.
@SirCumference First year, first sem, end of first module of classical mechanics, in UK. And never returned to. It is not actually useful; except that once a person sees how ugly it takes to derive both Coriolis and centrifugal effects, one finally understands why pre-university physics ought to never invoke that concept.
4:29 AM
Maybe I am asking the obvious, but as a physicist, what are your opinions on mathematics for physicists and mathematics for mathematicians?

Till what point should we care? The trivial part will be through study of smooth functions or its subset(analytic functions) and Linear Algebra.

Is there any math topic that a physicist should study with "mathematical rigour"?
TLDR: How should a physicist approach mathematics, and what topics to classify it broadly?
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5:17 AM
@naturallyInconsistent sorry I missed that. Can you pls explain it again?
5:51 AM
@123 no, I will not, and so you can go dig that up
6:33 AM
@naturallyInconsistent The 21 cm line demonstrates the hyperfine splitting, not the 4-fold degeneracy, no?
@ACuriousMind I suppose; but then you can add a magnetic field, using the Zeeman effect to lift this degeneracy, I think
@AdityaKrishnaPanickar if you only care about physics,then one strategy would be just study physics books and pick the required tools simultaneously from books like Byron fuller/hassani etc..when it comes to linear algebra for eg r Shankar's first chapter does the job pretty well
@naturallyInconsistent im not sure what you mean. the vector $[1, 0, 0, 0]$ is an eigenvector of $S^2$ and $S_z$. what is the need to additionally label with $S_z^{(1)}$ and $S_z^{(2)}$?
@AdityaKrishnaPanickar There are many different opinions about the exact role of rigour; there is no single universal opinion on this among physicists
@ACuriousMind how did you do it? : )
6:39 AM
@SillyGoose $S^2$ and $S_z$ refer to the same spin degree of freedom; there is no addition of angular momentum and CG coefficients in that.
How did I do what?
the simultaneous eigenstates of $\{S^2, S_z\}$ are organized in spin sectors, though. so it automatically computes the "addition of angular momentum" business
Do the math for studying physics..have you done it the mathematician way studying all the stuff rigorously or you took some other approach like taking the less rigorous math methods kind of courses
at least to my understanding
(my recent comments purposefully avoid using CG coefficients)
@SillyGoose again, I think you haven't really given enough context on what you're doing; I, for one, don't understand what the issue is or what the (1) and (2) labels here mean
6:42 AM
@SillyGoose either you do the addition of angular momentum properly, or you dont. There is no magic.
I was just trying to reorganize a hilbert space of $N$ spin-$1/2$s $\mathcal{H} \cong \mathbb{C}^{2^{\otimes N}}$ into the irreducible representation space decomposition
@ACuriousMind $O^{(1)} = O \otimes \mathbb{I} \otimes ... \otimes ... \mathbb{I}$ (as appropriate)
e.g. $\mathbb{C}^2 \otimes \mathbb{C}^2 \mapsto 0 \oplus 1$ (two spin-$1/2$s)
or $\mathbb{C}^2 \otimes \mathbb{C}^2 \otimes \mathbb{C}^2 \mapsto 1/2 \oplus 1/2 \oplus 3/2$ (three spin-$1/2$s).
But if you meant that, then $[1,0,0,0]^T$ is manifestly not an eigenstate...
oh hm wait maybe i know what the confusion is
for my purposes i am staying entirely in the tensor product basis
so i just want the "total spin states" in the tensor product basis
so i want $\lvert j = 1, m = 1/2 \rangle = \lvert 0 \rangle \otimes \lvert 0 \rangle$ for example
I think you are just extremely confused. If $j=1$ then $m\neq\frac12$
oh i mean $m = 1$
$\lvert 0 \rangle \otimes \lvert 0 \rangle$ is simply an eigenstate of $S^2$ and $S_z$ with eigenvalues $1(1+1) = 2$ and $1$, respectively.
and $\lvert j = 1, m = -1 \rangle = \lvert 1 \rangle \otimes \lvert 1 \rangle$ and etc.
6:54 AM
It is not $\frac12$
er i mean $1$ again lol
and that is just specifically for that case. You also have $\left|0\right>\otimes\left|1\right>$ and vice versa terms, and those terms have coupling.
yes but that is what simultaneously diagonalizing $S^2, S_z$ produces
i dont recall which has which sign so i didn't write the remaining two
here they are, e.g., concretely in the $+z, -z$ basis
the first is the $\lvert 0, 0 \rangle$ state and the remaining are the $j = 1$ sector states
@SillyGoose Again, you should be careful. The first is the $\left|\frac12,\frac12,0,0\right>$ and the remaining are the $\left|\frac12,\frac12,1,m\right>$ states for $m=-1,0,+1$
@naturallyInconsistent well, as long as we fix the two leading 1/2 (the goose is not changing them anytime soon afaics) we can omit them, I'm not sure why you insist on that part so much
@SillyGoose Okay, so what is the discrepancy now that you wanted to initially ask about?
7:06 AM
hi
@ACuriousMind because they keep writing $\left|j,m\right>$ as if they are actually realisable states. This is definitely not the same thing when adding angular momenta of different types, e.g. when one of them is the orbital angular momentum.
@naturallyInconsistent they're just writing $\lvert j,m\rangle$ as a shorthand for $\lvert 1/2, 1/2, j, m\rangle$ because in their context there are only spin-1/2s, I don't understand the problem
@ACuriousMind for the silly fowl that is the case. That is not the case for imbaf
but...as you observe correctly they are not imbaf??? Why do they need to be careful because someone else is confused? :P
oh, no, that is just not the right thing to do with the silly fowl. There will undoubtly be similar confusion once the silly fowl ventures outside QC.
im trying to preempt the confusion in the future with this one
7:12 AM
@AdityaKrishnaPanickar it depends on how the physicist studies physics
e.g. a mathematical physicist wud know their tools with rigor
how to know if a research study is trash
like, not just unreliable, but bad
is there some official standards once can use to know tiers of research studies : bad, unreliable, okay, good
if they give p-value, they cud have hacked it and it's hard to know. so this should fall under unreliable
but if they don't know about p-values, then it's bad?
7:36 AM
@RyderRude And who would be the Organization of Research Evaluators whose standards could be "official"? :P
@RyderRude This is a staggeringly silly statement - because one can hack p-values, stating them means you're unreliable???
a p-value is just a measure of statistical confidence, like the "number of sigmas" we usually use in physics research
that you can manipulate that measure does not mean it should not be used
dont you think it would only be worthwhile discussing reliability with people who have not demonstrated a degree of unreliability?
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@naturallyInconsistent I searched all the chats previous 4 days but didn't find your answer. Pls if possible explain it again. Thanks
@123 I will not. It was a while ago, definitely much more than previous 4 days.
@ACuriousMind there must be some things that agreed r upon philosophically. Like how falsifiability is a criterion for scientific theories
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@naturallyInconsistent let me search further back.
7:42 AM
@ACuriousMind i meant that, without further evidence, it's unreliable. but we still have to analyse if there could be hacking involved
but if a study does not mention a p-value, it is really bad?
I think that's a strange question
Are you just now discovering the concept that sometimes published things can be wrong?
strangeness minus 3?
@ACuriousMind no... It's just that these things being wrong can cause problems. E.g. if someone tells u that oils cure cancer and they pull up a paper, and all u can do is pull up another paper urself. How do u settle this argument
Depends on how invested I am in the argument :P
if it's someone u care about. U would rather not have them believe that
i guess research studies r too wide to have generalised criteria?
u maybe have to study specific fields urself to know the standards
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7:47 AM
Why in configuration space we take every particle coordinates in one coordinate?
is the presence of p-value universal?
The first question is always whether the debate is actually of a scientific nature - is it really the case that we just read different research, and if one person convinced their other that their research has more merit, the other will change their mind?
Because very often people who believe in pseudoscience will cite (bad, faked, misinterpreted, whatever) studies as if they were the support for their beliefs
but debunking the study will not actually lead to anyone abandoning their belief - they had the belief first and just produced the study to act as if they were arguing scientifically
yeah...that is another concern that they dont care about science in the first place
but assume that tht is something u work around later. U can first start by knowing urself if a paper is bad and be able to tell them that
so the latter problem is the one I'm focusing on
And there are people who argue that they are still correct, even though plenty of evidence has been levied that the original comment is vague
no amount of evidence may convince them that something is just wrong
@RyderRude First, what do we mean by "bad"?
Even a paper that is perfectly fine from a methodological standpoint can just be...wrong. Many fields have a p-value threshold of 0.05, so even for a correctly calculated, non-hacked p-value, it is to be expected that the findings of 1 study in 20 are just random noise and not actually a pattern
7:55 AM
yeah.. this is why i put these in the "unreliable" category. but if a paper straight up shows an ignorance of the concept of p-vlues, it's just bad?
we can first use some criteria as the bare minimum tests to sort out the definitely bad ones
and then we can worry about more nuanced criteria, like whether or not the p value is reliable
p-values are statistical, it is entirely possible for a paper to deduce the wrong thing just because it was unlucky
@RyderRude I mean, the paper should contain some discussion of the reliability of its results. In many fields, one standard for this is the p-value, and in a field where this is the standard, a paper making no mention of it is a red flag.
People have been trying to figure out how to find the Truth for like 2500 years and I'm afraid we still don't really have a solid consensus yet
i think most of these pseudoscience papers might not even pass some bare minimum criteria
There's a pretty big wealth of literature on the topic :p
I'm excited to see what will happen next week when @RyderRude discovers meta-analysis and funnel plots
7:58 AM
@ACuriousMind so we have to know the specific standards of fields to be able to know the bare minimum criteria
Of course
oh. Then it's hard work
How could you ever assess the quality of research without any familiarity with the subject matter?
@Slereah i will check it out
@ACuriousMind i thought that this might be required for the nuanced critera, but not the bare minimum ones
like maybe too many spelling mistakes can be bare minimum :P
but this is still easy to avoid by bad papers
@Slereah in this case, we should look for more studies on the same thing
I mean, in specific cases you can see problems without understanding the topic, like ridiculously small sample sizes - but if this was easy, don't you think we wouldn't have such a big problem with misinformation? :P
8:01 AM
I mean spelling mistakes aren't really about the scientific method, it's more of a vibe check
There are many criterias for vibe checks of a bad paper
@ACuriousMind yeah... some researchers can be smart
@Slereah yeah
@ACuriousMind quite a lot of people have difficulty realising that ChatGPT results are not trustworthy. I don't think it has anything to do with easy
ChatGPT is just our modern equivalent of divination
The Gods speak through the machine
@Slereah thanks
i was just thinking that research paper analysis would be a good use of AI in the future, not LLMs but other AI
8:06 AM
is it
Vibe check is pretty easy to do
You don't even need to read the paper
AI can be trained to know specifics of the field...
but human experts can already do that
@Slereah very liu cixin
@naturallyInconsistent People not trained in research are generally extremely bad at questioning information they read "somewhere" as long as that "somewhere" has the outer formal appearance of a trustworthy authority, this isn't unique to ChatGPT
And they can put as many figleafs on it as they want ("Double check information", "ChatGPT can make errors", whatever), the fact remains that the answers from LLMs usually sound as if they know what they're talking about and are written in a tone people associate with news articles and scientific reporting, i.e. trustworthiness
@ACuriousMind I dont think it has anything to do with "trained in research". It would be better for a society if it is not always verging off cliffs at the slightest suggestion of every charlatan there is. And people who have been trained in research are not faring particularly well either, just much less worse than the layfolk
 
2 hours later…
9:56 AM
3
Q: Fermions can be described by both symmetric and antisymmetric wavefunctions?

stratofortressI stumbled upon a lecture note on MIT OpenCourseWare, as I was trying to read up on antisymmetric and symmetric wavefunctions of two particle Fermions and Bosons, respectively. Interestingly, I came across a sentence that said the following: ... fermions can be described by both symmetric wave f...

This is flabbergastering
And the author being referred to by the OP is that Wen Xiao-gang
@ACuriousMind omggg
10:13 AM
@naturallyInconsistent how bizarre
@ACuriousMind extremely bizarre. which is why I was particularly interested in whether he had a version of the 2nd quantised fermion system using symmetry rather than skew-symmetry, yet he had omitted just that alone. like, WTF
10:29 AM
If you want to learn more about the scientific method :
It's interesting in that the A-B dialogue in that section shows he had a valid complaint about the standard presentation - the significance of "the phase" is unclear in the standard treatment. Now, I would remedy that by pointing out how this is related to representations of the symmetric/braid groups as the groups of exchange operators, but he instead went and invented a strange symmetric representation for 2d fermions and apparently is convinced this works in general?
@ACuriousMind exactly; I had trouble seeing how that would have worked in general, which is why the 2nd quantised version would have been really interesting if he had managed to produce it
was not expecting Wen Xiao-Gang, of all ppl, to be making an argument this bad
 
1 hour later…
12:05 PM
maybe XGW lives in 2+1D spacetime
that would have made anyons be important and it would not just be symmetric
he is a flat physicist
I'm kinda confused as to the current state of QED. Prof Wen Xiao-Gang is one of the few people who is actually worried about how we could even make sense of QFT in general. However, it seems like he does not know that QED can have both its UV and IR divergences go away at every term, and thus only the summation of the perturbation series may give rise to a problem.
In view of this, I am not sure what would be the central challenge to the interpretation of QED as currently understood.
12:37 PM
@naturallyInconsistent Central challenge of QED as a standalone theory is probably the Landau pole/UV triviality, see also physics.stackexchange.com/a/359627/50583
 
1 hour later…
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1:55 PM
Hello @RyderRude
this discussion cud b helped if they bothered to define free will first
but they have a nice "perimeter of free will" theory
@123 hello
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@RyderRude Why all the particles position in configuration space taken as single particle position?
@123 it is useful later. u can use it to formulate principle of least action which gives u equations of motion of the original system
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2:13 PM
So using this way how can we distinguish each particle component separately?
I know principle of least action, i have read Euler-Langrange equation from calculus of variation.
that thing goes into the definition of configuration space. e.g. if i have two particles and i define configuration space to be (x1,y1,z1,x2,y2,z2), then i am identifying the first three numbers wirh the first particle, and the last three with the second particle
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Why Lagrangian is L = KE - PE
Aaah yes i have read it. Thanks
Why Lagrangian is L = KE - PE
Aaah yes i have read it. Thanks
Why Lagrangian is L = KE - PE
@123 this agrees with experiments
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But Hamiltonian H = KE + PE
@123 yes. this also agrees with experiments
@123 ooh but u can also get it from the lagrangian
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2:19 PM
@RyderRude Okay... In QFT we use Hamiltonian mechanics?
@123 we use both lagrangian and hamiltonian mech
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Which mechanics is better Lagrangian or Hamiltonian?
in qft, hamiltonian mech is used to define the formalism. lagrangian is more used for predictions
@123 no general answer
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Which mechanics formalism used in GR?
lagrangian. hamiltonian is messier there
but i think they mostly just directly use the einstein equation there
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2:23 PM
Okay.. It means in GR both Lagrangian and Hamiltonian not used?
yeah... but im not sure. if i remember correctly, books just directly state the einstein eqn... and put the lagrangian in an appendix
but it depends on the book
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How much time it takes to mostly understand QFT and GR if i completed newtonian mechanics?
i think it takes 3-4 years for uni students
u will have to do QM and SR first which may take a year
then 2-3 years for GR and QFT
it depends on how deeply u learn
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Now i think at the moment i am more confident in Newtonian Mechanics. I have started Lagrangian and Hamiltonian.
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2:27 PM
@RyderRude I want to learn that much so i can fully understand the math and ideas and experiments of QFT and GR.
If i don't understand the step , i never move forward until i understand it fully.
@123 that will take some while. u will have to learn renormalisation and stuff to get to qft experiments
but it is within the time frame i gave. 2-3 years
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Great Thanks...
Why minus in change in potential energy
@123 The Hamiltonian formulation of GR in the form of the ADM formalism is widely used in numerical GR and frequently the starting point for quantum approaches. You can't just in general say that any field uses Lagrangians or Hamiltonians more, it always depends on the concrete use case
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@ACuriousMind Is it very difficult to learn for the first time? Because i don't have any teacher except this chatroom, youtube and google.
I'm sorry, but given for how long (five years) you've been asking questions about elementary classical mechanics in here, I don't think there's a realistic timeline for you to learn GR in this way
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2:31 PM
No doubt, I have learned sooo.. many things from this group peoples.
at the rate at which you've been learning mechanics, QFT and GR will take you decades
@123 have u tried learning qm
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@ACuriousMind :D you are right. Because i didn't understand the basic ideas of newtonian mechanics previuosly. And i found that all these ideas energy etc.. used in QM , QFT etc..
@RyderRude Yes i know the experiments and ideas, i am postgraduate in chemistry , we had applied chemistry peter atkins. which is not the foundation of QM. I learned on my own, but not mathematics.
@123 nice... u should also try physicist QM now
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@ACuriousMind :D i think not this time, Hopefully i will learn so fast than others if all of you guys will help me same way as in past.
@RyderRude Sure my first target is to conquer LM and HM first then i will move QM and QFT.
2:38 PM
great @123
@123 what other subjects are u interested in
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Can you pls tell me why there is minus sign in change in potential energy? Is there any logical answer.
@123 in what context
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@RyderRude My last goal is to understand QFT and GR and then String Theory. and spend my rest of life in learning and exploring these fields.
@123 same
but maybe not string theory for me :P
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@RyderRude Why not string theory. This is new theory.
2:42 PM
@123 they only do scattering.. i am more interested in general stuff (which they do have, but theyre lacking their big underlying theory)
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@RyderRude In which country you are from or live?
@123 i wanna stay private
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@RyderRude Ooops Okay...
What is the scope of looking future in QFT and GR?
@123 do u also like math or philosophy?
@123 im not familiar much
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@RyderRude Yes i like math but not philosophy at the moment. may be in future when i will come to that position.
2:46 PM
@123 they will build bigger particle accelerators hoping to discover new physics
but it is always a hope. there is no guarantee in qft
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@RyderRude But there is no industrial future in these fields. So why peoples take these subjects. If there is no bright future in that fields?
@123 there is industrial future in QM and maybe condensed matter physics, which also comes under qft
@123 people take these to get into academia or work in particle accelerators
and also to study it which they like to
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@RyderRude May be in your country government support all the fields and give money to that students. In my country we have to do some industrial work to earn money (no government support)
@123 countries differ in funding, yeah
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I think only those peoples take QFT and GR who are enthusiast. First it required a lot of learning and consume a lot of time of your life to understand the subject in better way other than memorizing thing only or accept things as definition.
2:51 PM
yeah.. i cant think of many industrial applications of GR except gps
but those physicists love exploring planets and galaxies
HELLO. for stat mech, im seeing that there is a concept of state space, similar to classical and quantum mech. however, i am confused how we determine the dimension of state spaces in stat mech. for instance, wiki says the dimension of the state space for a monatomic gas with fixed particle number is 2. how would i know this a priori ?
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By taking GR and QFT as a subject you can not earn a lot of money on the other hand you learn worlds most difficult subjects.
@123 yeah..
@Relativisticcucumber H E L L O
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@RyderRude If this is the case . Why peoples take GR and QFT?
2:56 PM
@123 enthusiasm.. and maybe they already have money from other sources
:66108063 什么
@123 also, many people do physics in uni and switch to other careers later
@ACuriousMind god i didnt know u were keeping data on us acm
what have u got to say ab the rate i learn physics XD
is it suitable
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@RyderRude Yes. Same in my case. Just physics compelled me. there is no need to learn anything further.
@123 it is great to pursue it for enthusiasm
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2:59 PM
@RyderRude You are teacher?
@123 no, i do physics as hobby
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@RyderRude What is your profession?
@123 i am learning physics
@123 i do a variety of things... it's hard to explain
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@RyderRude You are doing your small business?
@123 im doing... stuff :)
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3:02 PM
@RyderRude Great..
@123 kind of...
@ACuriousMind the answer you linked to, is not using Causal Perturbation; under CP the usually renormalised quantities are simply fixed by us inputting the experimentally obtained values, and so there is no freedom, say, for $e$ to go to zero. Not to mention that it also says that the argument likely doesn't happen. I suppose at some point in myow learning miao miao will get there myowself
@123 anyway, good luck on ur physics journey :)
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@RyderRude Thanks... :) same here for you.
@Relativisticcucumber It's not me that's keeping the data, the date when an account was created is publicly visible :P
3:06 PM
@ACuriousMind oh the questions are on the mainsite u mean. i see
blebs
@naturallyInconsistent There has to be some confusion here: Causal perturbation theory merely sidesteps the usual presentation of renormalization in terms of infinities, it does not remove renormalization altogether (hence why it's also called Epstein-Glaser renormalization). The Landau pole (or whatever happens in the non-perturbative UV) of QED is a feature in the RG flow that doesn't vanish just because you do causal perturbation theory
@Relativisticcucumber not necessarily, you can also see it in chat accounts (and before I wrote the 5 years above I actually also briefly searched the transcript for @123 to confirm they did indeed start posting back then)
@ACuriousMind u sly dog
@ACuriousMind yes, I know it still does renormalisation. But miao miao have no understanding of RG, so that must be why miao miao is mistaken. Will learn it some day far in the future
@Relativisticcucumber errr... that is standard checking...
@naturallyInconsistent In causal perturbation theory, the necessary ingredient is called the "main theorem of perturbative renormalization theory", showing that any two renormalization schemes (i.e. ways to specify the experimental values one needs to fix the renormalization) are related by a transformation (the RG transformation).
This one needs to discuss in some form even if you are not particularly interested in RG flows because one needs to know how to translate the values obtained from different choices for the renormalization parameters into each other
But we can always just assert that the choice is fixed at the low energy limit, so why do we need to fuss so much?
3:18 PM
also how can energy be a state function, work be a path function, and work energy theorem equates change in energy to work done?
@naturallyInconsistent because if you fix a choice at low energy your perturbation theory is useless at high energies - remember that the perturbative corrections essentially scale with "how far" the diagrams you want to evaluate are from the ones you used to fix the parameters (this is known under various names, in many schemes in manifests as the "problem of large logs" since certain logarithms become big)
but again, I think you would just be wasting time discussing RG with a cat that is not ready for RG talk
@ACuriousMind ahhhh
@Relativisticcucumber easy: work energy theorem is a lie
can you elaborate
ok technically it can work; just because work is a path function does not mean that changes in energy, which is what WET is talking about, cannot be a state function
@Relativisticcucumber careful: In the thermodynamic context where we talk about state and path functions, you usually have that energy is the sum of work and heat.
3:22 PM
it can work
the work-energy theorem is not usually stated in a context where heat makes sense as a concept/'is non-zero
instead, the issue is that work and heat are incredibly bad conceptions in thermodynamics. There exist quarrels about what is work and what is heat in thermodynamics especially in the magnetic case
You would be far better served completely ignoring what is work and what is heat, and instead discuss only well-defined quantities
the problem is simply that the word "work" does not mean exactly the same thing in these cases: If you consider accelerating something with friction from rest to a certain velocity $v$, then the "work" in the sense of the "work-energy theorem" is $\frac{1}{2}mv^2$. But the "real work" you did working against friction is larger - and depends on how long you accelerated the object and not only the final state, i.e. is a path function!
hm ok makes sense
i find thermodynamics lacks structure. its very confusing. been doing some ising/heisenberg model stuff with master equations, and im quite interested in quantum stat mech/these topics. problem is i cant understand basic thermodynamics in a sensible way
it's not meant to be understood, it's a hack job :P
3:35 PM
even getting to the ensembles and making sense of their results has been a struggle for me. i only have some notions of partition functions as moment generating functions and free energy as cumulants SORT OF blebs
but bc of this i always struggle to understand simple things like derivation of BE and FD stats. trying to once and for all get it but alas no luck so far
even more problematic is the connection btwn thermo and stat mech is just not even clear to me
Well, if you really wanted to understand classical to statistical thermodynamics, there is an axiomatisation if you like to do it that way. It is just very challenging to learn it that way. And you need to know the basic physics prior to learning the axiomatised version.
@naturallyInconsistent what is this approach?
@Relativisticcucumber why is this a problem? Like, by the time one gets to the partition function, it is mostly an exercise in mathematics: differentiate, and get the correct answer.
tbh i really dont care ab thermo itself. but i want to know enough to learn condensed matter
@Relativisticcucumber Callen.
I am never an advocate of learning stuff without getting excited by the wonderful stuff being taught
3:39 PM
i am a big fan of master equations thus far, i also am very interested in these models that condensed matter teaches. but yes i am not excited by thermo indeed XD
But im like a practical learner i think
For example, anybody who thinks that they understand quantum theory, but does not understand what stat therm is saying, is lying to themselves. The best evidence and understanding of what quantum theory is saying, is via stat therm
i need to know the purpose of smth to find it cool / internalize it
@ACuriousMind what is ur recommendation for stat mech
Well, it is easy to motivate partition functions: work without it for a few times, and then you will fully appreciate how magically effortless it is compared to the direct integration otherwise.
none, I dislike it because the course I had on it was terrible :P
@ACuriousMind but you know condensed matter, right?
3:42 PM
only to the extent that it's QFT, really
that is, I understand QFT well enough in general to be able to make sense of a lot of basic condensed matter, but I've never learned it as a topic on its own
and my approach to statistical mechanics is similarly rather "I understand what a probability distribution on phase space is, ignore all the weird "microstate", "macrostate" etc. stuff and just stick to doing classical mechanics on phase space" :P
that's a shame. crystalline physics is beautiful. And you get to see a far better understanding of the stuff you see and touch every day
@ACuriousMind but, butt, the point is that it is no longer phase space when you upgrade to true quantum theory...
oh, quantum statistical mechanics is similarly just the theory of density matrices :P
but yes, I know there's a lot of depth to field that I am blissfully ignorant about, I'm content with that
hm. i mean what is the point of thermodynamics to you? i get why stat mech and quantum stat mech is important @naturallyInconsistent
3:53 PM
Because that's what people actually use
Well, you know miao miao lived in a place that is extremely hot. And then studied in a place that is known for cold winters. The god-emperor of miao miao land once asserted that the most important invention in the history of humanity is the air-conditioner, and this is quite correct. Keeping food fresh with refridgeration, enabling hot places and cold places to still keep people in employment, are incredibly important to history. Even the mRNA vaccines needed great cooling to deploy.
 
1 hour later…
5:15 PM
Why is there no factor of $e^{ \pm i p_i \cdot x}$ in the above? This is a proper Feynman amplitude, right? So it should contain all the external line factors (won't there be polarizations if we were doing spin-1 theory instead of spin-0?)
@NairitSahoo it's a scattering amplitude (which is a function of the momenta conventionally) what would the $x_i$ in your Fourier factors be?
@ACuriousMind Delta functions?
I don't know what that's supposed to mean
$x_i$ is a free variable if you just add $\mathrm{e}^{\mathrm{i}p_ix_i}$ terms. Free variables have to occur on both sides of an equation. Where is there an $x_i$ in $\mathrm{i}M(p_1p_2\to p_3 p_4)$?
5:35 PM
Yo
5:50 PM
@ACuriousMind I see. So, don't we use external lines in calculation of $i \mathcal{M}$?
 
1 hour later…
7:02 PM
you ever wonder if the papers of the future will be entirely digital, to the point where they'd often have e.g. interactive plots?
like clickable checkboxes that let you hide or show certain elements of plots, or sliders for the reader to change the axes limits however they want
i feel like this should already be mainstream by this point
7:45 PM
@SirCumference Yeah or being able to extract paper elements from the pdf file or whatever it's stored in, so you can edit it yourself
i.e., u can unpack & put it in some local software vs. having it in some better format which you can access instead of the pdf, one with all the options you specified.
idk who would fund the tech upgrades i guess the journal ppl
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