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1:41 AM
if $\psi(x)$ is a solution to the schrodinger equation and $\psi(-x)$ is also a solution, then a combination of these two is a solution. however, doesnt this mean that any combination of them should be a solution? i am looking at an exercise that uses this ideaology to prove that the solution to the schrodinger equation with an even potential can always be taken to be even or odd, but even if the lin comb of these two [...]
[...] has constants that satisfy this (i.e. using 1 and -1 to make the sum even or odd), surely there are many constants that make the combination neither even or odd
 
 
3 hours later…
4:28 AM
@Relativisticcucumber Consider e.g. the harmonic oscillator. The potential is even and $\lvert n \rangle$ is odd if $n$ is odd and even if $n$ is even. A combination (i.e. a generic state) is not a solution to the TDSE as the solutions are by definition eigenstates of the Hamiltonian
$\hat{H}(c_1\lvert n_1 \rangle+c_2\lvert n_2 \rangle)=c_1\hat{H}\lvert n_1 \rangle+c_2\hat{H}\lvert n_2 \rangle=c_1 E_1\lvert n_1\rangle +c_2E_2\lvert n_2\rangle$
 
do you mean that the combination of solutions is not a solution necessarily ?
 
@Relativisticcucumber I think @Feynman_00 might have meant the Time Independent SE not the Time Dependent SE above.
If you combine two solutions to the time independent SE the result is time dependent, so combinations of the eigenfunctions are not solutions to the TISE.
But any combination of solutions to the time dependent SE is also a solution to the time dependent SE.
 
qhat do you mean by "
If you combine two solutions to the time independent SE the result is time dependent"
what*
 
so stationary states are not just solutions to TISE? they are eigenstates of a hamiltonian?
 
4:43 AM
@Relativisticcucumber Look at the example Feyman_00 gives:
11 mins ago, by Feynman_00
$\hat{H}(c_1\lvert n_1 \rangle+c_2\lvert n_2 \rangle)=c_1\hat{H}\lvert n_1 \rangle+c_2\hat{H}\lvert n_2 \rangle=c_1 E_1\lvert n_1\rangle +c_2E_2\lvert n_2\rangle$
The TISE is Hψ = Eψ. yes?
 
wait so because TISE is inhomogenous ODE we can't necessreily linear combine solutions?
wait nvm
 
@JohnRennie Yes, sorry. I always mess with that acronym :P
@Relativisticcucumber What we really mean is that (if the solutions you combine belong to different eigenspaces), the combination undergoes non-trivial time evolution
Eigenstates of the Hamiltonian are stationary states: it's not like they don't evolve over time but the evolution is given by attaching a phase factor i.e. it is trivial as this won't affect the observables. Different eigenstates get different phase factors, which means that the combination won't have a trivial evolution, because the phase factors have different time dependence
@SillyGoose The TISE is the eigenvalue problem of the Hamiltonian
 
5:11 AM
ooh because the time factor depends on the energy right?
so the TISE is a homogenous PDE
so linear combo solutions are valid but the time dependence factor muddles this up?
 
@SillyGoose Yes, it depends on the energy. When you want to deal with time dependent SE, you attach the $\exp(iEt/\hbar)$ factors to each eigenstate of the combination. As long as the state is just an eigenstate this phase factor is irrelevant, while combinations have different oscillation frequency in each term of the sum thus they evolve differently yielding overall non trivial time evolution
 
wait so are lienar combos valid stationary states
but not valid wave functions
 
Linear combinations are not stationary states in general
Unless they have the same energy
45 mins ago, by Feynman_00
$\hat{H}(c_1\lvert n_1 \rangle+c_2\lvert n_2 \rangle)=c_1\hat{H}\lvert n_1 \rangle+c_2\hat{H}\lvert n_2 \rangle=c_1 E_1\lvert n_1\rangle +c_2E_2\lvert n_2\rangle$
As you can see here, a linear combinations is not an eigenstate of $\hat{H}$, meaning it is not a stationary state
It is because they are not stationary states that the time evolution is non-trivial
 
I guess i am confused conceptually of the difference of the eigen value problem and the homogenous PDE that is the TISE
because a homogenous DE has lienar combo solutiosn
 
5:30 AM
@SillyGoose different energy eigenstates satisfy different PDEs
The energy are different
$(\hat{H}-E_n)\lvert\n\rangle=0$
Different $E_n$, different PDEs. If $E_n=E_{n'}$ they satisfy the same PDE and in fact the combination is still an eigenstate (stationary state)
 
omg
i keep messing this up
...tat makes sense
 
 
3 hours later…
9:38 AM
Math people really need to stop calling things "a generalized X"
lest they start naming things "a generalized generalized X"
 
9:54 AM
@Slereah do you prefer the "manifold with boundary" naming convention where the "generalized X" is instead called "X with Y" :P
 
fqq
can't they just stop making new stuff up? we have enough for a lifetime
 
10:21 AM
I'm not even sure "manifold" is a good name
Where are the folds
 
10:49 AM
Does there exist a closed-form analytical solution to Lorentz force law for general EM fields...(like we have Jeffimenko equations for Maxwell equations)?
 
11:16 AM
I think Jefimenko is generally valid if you don't assume waves from infinity?
And waves from infinity are solutions to the vacuum wvae equation so you can just add them together
 
fqq
what do you mean? the Lorentz force is the force on a charged particle under a generic EM field, what is there to solve?
 
@fqq solve for the trajectory in terms of the fields
 
Do you mean in the test limit, or do the particles themselves influence the field too?
 
In the test limit
 
 
1 hour later…
12:51 PM
Then you're just looking at solutions of second order differential equations
or first order in the velocity, really
 
@Slereah That is obvious...I was wondering whether there exists a closed-form solution to those ODEs.
 
I'm gonna sayyyyyy no
The two body problem is already not integrable and you can express it as an EM problem
(in some limit)
I doubt that a more general case will make it more integrable
 
1:27 PM
"An observer is defined to be a hypothetical intelligent point particle"
 
 
2 hours later…
3:41 PM
I have to find how the einbein transforms given that the action should be reparametrization invariant
But im not entirely sure what reparametrization ivariant means.
we have $\lambda \mapsto \lambda '(\lambda)$
What I did was to vary the action, for $x^{\mu} \mapsto x^{\mu} + \delta x^{\mu}$ and $g_{\mu \nu} \mapsto g_{\mu \nu} + \partial_{\sigma} g_{\mu \nu} \delta x^{\sigma}$
as well as vary the einbein, but all I get is a huge action with two main terms, one with $\delta e$ and one with $\delta x^{\sigma}$
I set both terms to zero and I get what it seems like a constraint equation for e, as well as a modified geodesic equation
I feel like the answer should be much easier that what I'm doing
 
I'm not sure what you mean by "what I did was to vary the action"
Just plug the transformation $\lambda\mapsto\lambda'$ into everything whose transformation behavior you know, and then stare long enough at the result to figure out how $e$ must transform
e.g. for the terms involving $x^\mu$ you have $\frac{\mathrm{d}x^\mu}{\mathrm{d}\lambda} \mapsto \frac{\mathrm{d}{x^\mu}}{\mathrm{d}\lambda'}\frac{\mathrm{d}\lambda'}{\mathrm{d}\lambda}$
 
Do I need to specify how $\lambda '$ is related to $lambda$? I saw some posts where they assumed something like $\lambda ' = \lambda - \eta (\lambda)$
 
And yes, I will now try it myself and will let you know, thank you
 
writing $\lambda' = \lambda - \eta(\lambda)$ is just doing the usual physics thing of looking only at an infinitesimal transformation, but that's not really necessary here
 
3:59 PM
well does the metric remain constant under the transformation... ? I think yes
Wait, no
 
yes, $g(\lambda) \mapsto g(\lambda(\lambda'))$
 
Because the metric depends on $x^{\mu}$ and $x^{\mu}$ depends on $\lambda$, it should also change, is my thinking correct?
 
I think you're using the wrong notion of "change"
If I have a scalar function $f(x)$ and I use another parametrization $x'(x)$ to get an $f(x') := f(x(x'))$, then nothing else happens to $f$, it doesn't "change", even though of course $f(x')$ has a different value at $x'=2$ than $f(x)$ did at $x=2$.
 
Alright alright. I meant change in the sense that if $\lambda$ transforms, then so should the metric. If the metric was given explicitly, they would have different formulas.
 
contrast this with the derivative $f'(x) = \frac{\mathrm{d}f}{\mathrm{d}x}$ - if I transform to $f'(x') = \frac{\mathrm{d}f}{\mathrm{d}x'} = \frac{\mathrm{d}x}{\mathrm{d}x'}f'(x(x'))$, you get a factor of $\frac{\mathrm{d}x'}{\mathrm{d}x}$
@ShikiRyougi "transform" and changing formulas don't exactly mean the same thing
a scalar function will "look different" in two different coordinate systems in terms of explicit formulae
that doesn't mean it transforms non-trivially under coordinate transformations
 
4:08 PM
ok
 
most physics texts don't really explain this very clearly and I've also done a rather bad job above because the notation doesn't really hold up, this is one of the points where I find the mathematicians' clear separation between abstract entities and coordinate expression really valuable to understand what's going on
 
So the transformed action should be $\int d \lambda ' [ g_{\mu \nu}(\lambda(\lambda ') \frac{d x^{\mu}}{d \lambda ') \frac{d x^{\nu}}{d \lambda ')\frac{d \lambda '}{d \lambda )\frac{d \lambda '}{d \lambda ) - m^2 e^2(\lambda ' )$. But how does the metric transform? I mean, it transforms as a tensor between coordinate systems but what about reparametrizations :P
 
it doesn't transform, it's a scalar from the worldline's point of view
 
$\int d \lambda ' \frac{1}{2e(\lambda ')} [ g_{\mu \nu}(\lambda(\lambda ')) \frac{d x^{\mu}}{d \lambda '} \frac{d x^{\nu}}{d \lambda '}\frac{d \lambda '}{d \lambda }\frac{d \lambda '}{d \lambda } - m^2 e^2(\lambda ' )]$
 
you lost the $e^{-1}$ outside the brackets
also you forgot to transform the $\mathrm{d}\lambda'$ in the integral measure properly
 
4:21 PM
um, how should it transform?
 
uh...normally? $\mathrm{d}\lambda = \frac{\mathrm{d}\lambda}{\mathrm{d}\lambda'}\mathrm{d}\lambda'$
 
$S' = \int \frac{d \lambda}{d \lambda'}d \lambda ' \frac{1}{2e(\lambda ')} [ g_{\mu \nu}(\lambda(\lambda ')) \frac{d x^{\mu}}{d \lambda '} \frac{d x^{\nu}}{d \lambda '}\frac{d \lambda '}{d \lambda }\frac{d \lambda '}{d \lambda } - m^2 e^2(\lambda ' )]$
So messy
Ok lets see if I can figure out how $e(\lambda ')$ is related to $e(\lambda)$ XD
 
you should probably just assume $e(\lambda) \mapsto k e(\lambda')$ and solve for $k$
 
4:38 PM
@ACuriousMind I think I still don't understand what reparametrization invariant means. What I would do is to equate the old and new action (I ask this before I try this)
 
"equate" is a bit difficult a word to use here. What you want to show is that the action after the reparametrization has the same form as before that - in practical terms that all the $\frac{\mathrm{d}\lambda'}{\mathrm{d}\lambda}$ terms and the $k$ cancel each other
 
would it be correct to say that $e(\lambda')=\frac{d \lambda'}{d \lambda} e(\lambda)$?
 
it would indeed
 
God damn it, that was much easier than I expected. Although there were quite a few holes in my knowledge.
 
4:43 PM
most things are easy after you know how to do them ;)
 
I will come later with more questions... XD
 
e is actually a one dimensional frame
Hence the transformation
a... monad I guess?
 
shush! that word summons category theorists and haskell programmers
 
it transforms like a density...?
scalar density
 
Hey @ShikiRyougi what's up?
 
4:57 PM
hi!
I'm well, how about you?
 
5:18 PM
im still very confused about the discussion with johnrennie, Feynman, and silly goose. so 1) i dont get why a linear combination of solutions isnt a solution bc in the free particle case, we use this fact to get normalizable solutions i think? 2) this exercise is saying exactly that we can take any solution with even potential to be even or odd because we can show that psi(x) and psi(-x) are solutions, so we choose out constants such that the sum of them can be positive or negative
but that doesnt make sense to me because we can also choose them to not be that way
 
solution of what?
 
well i think its both TIDSE and TDSE
but the phrasing is confusing imo so for sure at least TISE
sorry *TISE and TDSE
 
"both" is an unfortunate answer because the thing about the sum of solutions being a solution doesn't really work the same way for the two :P
 
exactly that is one of my many confusions. is there a way to send a picture here?
 
there is exactly one TDSE, $\partial_t \psi = -\mathrm{i}H\psi$, but there is a family of TISEs $E\psi = -\mathrm{i}H\psi$, one equation for each constant $E\in\mathbb{R}$
 
5:23 PM
c is what i am trying to work out
 
Hi cucumber :))
 
omg hi @ShikiRyougi hope you are well
 
@Relativisticcucumber okay, so there the difference indeed doesn't matter - the claim is that if $\psi(x)$ fulfills one of these equations (and the TISE for one particular $E$), then $\psi(-x)$ fulfills the same equation (with the same $E$ in the case of the TISE)
 
right i can see that but then i have the confusion about the constant choice that i said above
 
since both equations are linear, $\psi(x) + c\psi(-x)$ then is also a solution for any $c\in\mathbb{C}$, in particular $c =\pm1$
you say "we can also choose them to not be that way" but...why does that matter?
 
5:27 PM
i guess my interpretation of the problem is that the solutions have to be either even or odd and to prove this
 
no, it's not saying they have to be
they're saying that you can always find a basis of solutions that are either even or odd
not that all bases of solutions must be that way
 
so i used this result in a double delta potential well problem to say "okay lets look for only even and odd solutions and this should do it", so do you mean this is fine and this represents a possible basis but there are other bases also ?
and so the point is to say wecan always look for such a basis ?
 
somehow I really struggle to interpret words :///// man
thanks for helping me clarify this
 
no worries
 
5:31 PM
@ShikiRyougi are you in undergrad or grad or smth else ?
if u dont mind to answer
 
I'm currently doing a masters, which translates to grad I think
 
5:48 PM
or semi-grad :p
 
@ShikiRyougi I guess I'm a survivor
 
@Feynman_00 what do you mean by that? :P
 
@ShikiRyougi but actually, I think they mean they graduated:
Oct 3 at 17:14, by Feynman_00
Tomorrow I'll have my first lectures as a grad student! :D
 
oh xD
@ACuriousMind Congratulations!
oh no
 
lol
thanks =)
 
i wanted to respond to the message you linked xD
@Feynman_00 Congratulations!
Hopefully I will survive my masters too
First year didn't go so well, but now i'm doing much better :D
 
6:20 PM
@ACuriousMind What if I told you the schedule is messed up at my uni and the actual ceremony is tomorrow? :P
 
then I would not be surprised :P
 
From this remark it seems that messed up schedules are invariant under translations
I don't really enjoy ceremonies but wearing the laureal wreath is a good reason to endure it
 
haha
quick question. I now want to vary the action with respect to $e(\lamba)$. That would mean that I only vary $e(\lamba)$ in the action and not $x^{\mu}$ and $g_{\mu \nu}$, correct?
 
First time I need to vary the action with respect to something else lol
very cool
 
6:31 PM
@ACuriousMind weird definition of 'tragic', tbh. Given that they're one of the most successful species on Earth at the moment.
 
6:51 PM
Wait a minute, if I vary with respect to $x^{\mu}$, $g_{\mu \nu}$ varies but $e(\lambda)$ does not, so I get the geodesic equation but with a factor of $\frac{1}{e}$, which is basically the geodesic equation. How is that possible?
 
7:19 PM
magic
 
7:37 PM
So for any value of the einbein this works...?
Except 0 of course
And another question, what if I vary both einbein and x at the same time?
Does it even make sense?
 
I mean...you can, but why would you?
 
 
2 hours later…
9:36 PM
Is the answer to this $d^2h/dt^2 = d^2 \theta /dt^2 + d\theta/dt d \phi /dt + 1/2 d^2 \phi /dt^2 d \theta /dt $
 
9:53 PM
I decided to do some example questions but couldn't find any problem sets with solutions and settled for this
 

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