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8:00 PM
If I wrote an answer for the continuous case it would not even answer the question as it is currently written
 
Ugh.
I want to understand the ideas, not get carried away by minor differences between discrete and continuous.
I need enough knowledge to go on by myself. An explanation of the continuous case would probably be enough.
How to edit?
 
Might not be minor though!
I have a derivation for the continuous case
 
@DanielSank They aren't minor! In many cases we don't even know whether putting the theory on a lattice and evaluating the quantum path integral on it, then taking a conitnuum limit gives the same results that we derive by other methods in the continuum! That's a big and in general unsolved problem in the field of doing lattice simulations in QFT
For the one-dimensional case you're looking at here you may be in luck because we actually can write down a mathematically well-defined continuum path integral and ask the mathematicians to verify it works out fine, though :P
 
Guys, I only care about the formal relations between stuff here and the only reason I'm discretizing anything is that I don't know how path integrals work yet.
An answer of the form "Here's how it works in the continuum, maybe it's the same in the discrete case" would be fine.
If you want to edit the question to make such an answer acceptable, please do.
 
Go for it @ACuriousMind
 
8:09 PM
@DanielSank are you hoping to start from a PDE and end up with the path integral directly from the equation, as in, you invent it starting from the equation directly?
 
I'm trying to understand how to deal with $J^T A^{-1} J$ without actually computing an inverse.
@bolbteppa I don't understand the question.
My basic understanding of the (Wiener) path integral is that we already know the Green's function for transition probabilties, and then we decide to think of it as a weighted sum over paths.
We then treat the "path integral" as a new object whose value we know because we know the Green's function, and we construct a calculus around it by discovering self-consistent algebraic manipulations.
We then evaluate nontrivial cases by referring them back to the known case.
 
@DanielSank the point of the $J$ terms is that differentiating with respect to $J$ lets you form correlation functions, but at least in physics/qft, $J = 0$
 
($J=0$ after you do the computational tricks)
 
8:24 PM
J and A dont depend on the fields, right? This is just the constant piece you get after completing the square?
 
@Danu @DanielSank Ugh, it doesn't work so straightforward as I thought because this is not a relativistic theory, and you're not inverting the full operator that $W$ is a Green's function for, but merely the Laplacian. The Green's function/inverse operator for the Laplacian is well-known, but I'm afraid it doesn't directly relate to the diffusion propagator at all.
So I can't relate $A$ and $W$ even in the continuous case, since $A$ is just $\partial_x^2$ and not the $\partial_t - \partial_x^2$ that $W$ belongs to.
 
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Q: Automatic comment when voting to close as homework-like?

NowIGetToLearnWhatAHeadIsWould it be convenient to include an automatically generated comment when voting to close a question as homework-like? The way things are set up now, if I see a question that runs afoul the homework-like policy, I just cast a downvote. Some people less lazy than me put a comment that looks like ...

 
@ACuriousMind Herp-a-derp :P
Hey also ACM
So I recently read the following statement that I've heard many times and internalized without ever understanding
If a "symmetry operator" (so an operator that commutes with the Hamiltonian) annihilates the vacuum, then one-particle states must furnish a representation of the symmetry." Do you know how to show it?
Is it correct to translate this statement to simply "symmetry operators do not change particle number"?
 
8:41 PM
in the SHO at least, the number operator differs from the Hamiltonian by a constant
 
@Danu It's something Witten once said and everyone else is just mindlessly repeating :P (as can be seen by the odd use of "furnish" even if they never use the word "furnish" for any other kind of representation) I've once failed to prove that statement. David Bar Moshe has given a better possible answer here
 
can't remember more generally, though
 
@ACuriousMind I read it in Witten's paper. Haha!
(the Morse theory one)
 
@BenNiehoff lol, that's exactly what I tried. It doesn't really work.
 
@ACuriousMind But isn't it just a statement like: Particles have to be in a representation of $SU(2)$ if there's $SU(2)$ symmetry?
Isn't that a super fundamental thing?
In particular, it surely precedes Witten, no?
 
8:44 PM
@Danu Yes. And I think there is a way to resolve this: Particles are irreps of the Lorentz group. Any symmetry that commutes with the Hamiltonian must also commute with all Lorentz generators (this is Coleman-Mandula). But if the symmetry commutes with the Lorentz generators it clearly must carry all irreps to themselves.
 
Right
Seems legit?
 
So, in a way, you might say this is a weird reformulation of the Coleman-Mandula theorem.
 
Perhaps..
Maybe that's worth adding as an answer to the question.
 
I forgot about that question until you asked me the question ;)
 
Also, no annihilation of the vacuum is needed
Arnold Neumaier seems to agree with you.
Though Ron Maimon doesn't.
 
8:49 PM
@Danu Annihilation of the vacuum is also implied by C-M - since the vacuum forms a one-dimensional irrep, the generators of all symmetries acting on it are trivial.
If it doesn't annihilate the vacuum, it carries the vacuum out of its irrep.
 
So why does this not work for spontaneously broken symmetries?
they are not in an 1D rrep?
 
Broken symmetries are non-linearly realized
Oh, wait
Hehe
 
Hi guys! Given a gauge group made up of two simple gauge groups, say G = G1 \times G2, is it generally possible to have situations in which just one of its subgroup confines? I would say it's possible. Indeed, the Standard Model with SU(3)c is an example... at order $\Lamba _{QCD}$ quarks confine and mesons appear in the spectrum which transform under the unbroken $U(1)_{em}$ but in this example the second subgroup (SU(2)XU(1)) is spontaneously broken.
 
@Danu The statement "carry all irreps to themselves" is wrong. It should be "carry all irreps to isomorphic reps"
 
I would like to understand the description of mesons transformation properties under the second subgroup in the unbroken phase of the theory.
 
8:53 PM
So a vacuum can be carried to another vacuum
 
OK. That sounds better
 
And a single particle can be carried to another single particle (think charge conjugation)
hmmm
 
but the statement is about symmetry operators that annihilate the vacuum, not carry it to another one
 
@BenNiehoff Right, Danu wanted to know where my argument fails for symmetries that don't annihilate the vacuum
 
oh, sorry, only half paying attention
Lorentz symmetries don't annihilate the vacuum, do they?
 
8:55 PM
@BenNiehoff Of course they do (their generators)
 
in fact, which symmetries do?
 
If a symmetry leaves a state invariant, its generator annihilates it
 
ah, ok
because of the 1 in e^X
 
Hmm, @Danu, now I don't know how to argue the image of the 1-particle irrep is, in fact, a 1-particle irrep. The multi-particle reps should decompose into sums of irreps after all - how does one know the 1-particle irrep is carried to another 1-particle irrep?
 
I don't know anything :P
Maybe Arnold Neumaier's stuff works
I think he even convinced Ron in the comments
 
8:59 PM
@DanielSank I guess you might be interested in "Path Integrals in Physics" by Chaichian & Demichev. The first half of the first book is just classical stuff; about Wiener path integrals and ways to compute them (mostly working out the discrete case and taking limits)
 
@Danu What works? So far I see that his answer is the same as mine, minus mentioning Coleman-Mandula.
He doesn't give any explanation why the 1-particle irrep needs to be carried to a 1-particle irrep and not an irrep that sits inside a many-particle state.
 
Yeah, probably
@ACuriousMind So what are the irreps of the many-particle Hilbert (sub)spaces?
 
@Danu What?
 
@ACuriousMind So you worry that the 1-particle irreps may be turned into irreps inside many-particle (sub)spaces
I'm asking which ones those are
 
The many-particle spaces are obviously tensor products of the one-particle spaces, and these should decompose into the direct sum of irreps as usual.
 
9:10 PM
Yeah, okay.
 
@Danu And I don't understand the question.
 
That's what I thought
 
There's nothing about a representation that uniquely signifies it's "one-particle" or "many-particle" - after all, all information it carries is spin and mass.
 
So could it be that the only ones with the right dimension are the one-particle states? :P
 
@Danu They're all infinite-dimensional.
 
9:12 PM
Herp-a-derp
 
The vacua are special because they are the only finite-dimensional representations
 
Okay
messy physics background shit
So how did people even start thinking about $SU(2)$-theories and shit
Someone must've sorta-proven this?!
 
What?
I think people just noticed that the particles fit nice patterns as if they were charged under SU(2) or SU(3)
 
Idk, this concept of symmetry -> things must be in reps of this thing
you think it's an a posteriori concept?
 
@Danu Oh, that's kinda what you define a symmetry to be. The issue here is "every symmetry must map particles to particles"
I feel it should follow from the irrep argument somehow, but I don't see it
 
9:17 PM
Oh well
Another question about this Morse theory paper
So I understand that you can look at the $0$-momentum states, then $Q_i|\alpha\rangle=0$ for some $i$ implies it for all $i$ since $Q_i^2=H$ for all $i$ and the $Q_i$'s are self-adjoint. So he picks one of the $Q_i$'s, calls it $Q$ and writes $Q=Q_++Q_-$, where $Q_+$ maps bosons to fermions and $Q_-$ must be its adjoint.
Then, for the existence of a state such that $Q|\alpha\rangle=0$, it is sufficient to have nonzero index for $Q_+$. No problem there. Now, he says that this index can be expressed as $\operatorname{tr}(-1)^F$
Trace over what? Why do all fermion states contribute to this trace? Or do only the ones that are annihilated contribute somehow?
I vaguely recall some statement from another book that says that for the non-vacuum states there's always a boson-fermion symmetry so those don't contribute. But I don't recall precisely what the idea is.
 
9:32 PM
Right, it's because for $E>0$, $Q$ yields an isomorphism between the bosonic and fermionic Hilbert spaces at energy $E$ (page 189 of Hori et al's Mirror Symmetry book).
 
9:57 PM
@alarge yes that's what I'm reading and what lead me to ask the question I recently posted.
 
Made it
 
10:12 PM
@ACuriousMind the second picture was of the dog
He wanted to go with me :(
@BenNiehoff yes it's true
There are Hamiltonians that are not self-adjoint, for instance
despite looking pretty reasonable, i.e. $p^2/2m+V(x)$ where $V\in C^\infty$
@BenNiehoff I don't think Bra-ket notation ever "fails," what are you referring to?
Although it is nonsense, because distinguishing $|\psi\rangle$ and $\psi(x)$ is pretty dumb
And you have to introduce $|x\rangle$ which breaks everything
 
Hi guys I have a doubt but I don't know if it's worth to ask the question in the site so i may ask it here
 
depends on what the question is
 
in my lecture notes in a passage we basically have these equality: $\pi^i \pi^j = [\pi^i, \pi^j] $ . Now I think that to justify this passage the operator $\pi$ has to be antisymmetric and therefore the anticommutator between $\pi^i and \pi^j$ has to be 0
 
what class is this, what are those brackets?
 
the brackets are the commutator
I forgot the one half before the commutator, it's $1/2 [\pi^i \pi^j] $
 
10:21 PM
what is $\pi^i$?
@Runlikehell do you want a comma in there too?
And you're sure its the commutator and not the anticommutator?
 
yeah i was gonna write it $\pi^i= p^i - e/c A^i$. It's the momentum with the minimal coupling with the EM field
yeah i'm pretty sure, I should have posted the pic in the first place without writing and making mistakes maybe
 
The commutation rule for those is $[\pi^i,\pi^j]\propto \epsilon^{ijk}B_k$
 
@Runlikehell can we see the context?
 
We're deriving Pauli equation from Dirac's equation, coupling Dirac's with the EM potentials
 
10:26 PM
Oh, uh, is $\pi^i$ fermionic then?
 
I'm not sure what you mean, I always called it kinetic momentum
 
fermionic variables anticommute
 
I'm not sure about that, since it describe electrons I assume it's the momentum of a fermion but i don't get why it has to anticommute
That is all I know, I tried an explicit calculation of the anticommutator but I didn't get the result
To give a little bit of contex, that's the passage
 
@Runlikehell That's not the equality $\pi^i \pi^j = [\pi^i,\pi^j]$ you were talking about.
 
lol
thats antisymmetry of the LC symbol
 
10:34 PM
Why not?
 
because of what I just said
 
@Runlikehell Write $\pi^i\pi^j = \frac{1}{2}(\{\pi^i,\pi^j\} + [\pi^i,\pi^j])$, which is true just by definition, then use that the sum of something anti-symmetric times something symmetric is 0.
@0celo7 I'm being a bit sloppy :P
 
I'm trying to understand this sting thing
 
@0celo7 That's the first nice picture I've seen of him!
 
It's quite mysterious
@ACuriousMind black dogs with fluffy fur cannot be photographed
it's a special case of the uncertainty principle
 
10:38 PM
Oh it was trivial, sorry for disturb. Thank you guys
 
@Slereah where u at boyy
 
I didn't even care about the Levi-Civita symbol, I just thought that it was a substitution
I'll share and anedocte about Levi-Civita then. Einstein used to say he liked two things about Italy: spaghetti and Levi-Civita.
 
damn physicist
there's plenty more to like about Italy
Fubini, Tonelli, Levi, Cantrelli
Ferrari
 
In his mind probably just Levi-Civita had a spaghetti level
 
Being able to do double integrals is more important than anything Levi-Civita ever did!
@ACuriousMind TVS are rough. Proving that a T1 TVS is Hausdorff is pretty hard
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A: How a reference frame relates to observers and charts?

user12262 [If] one observer is a timelike, future pointing worldline ... There are indeed different interpretations of the notion "observer" in use; as concisely contrasted by this Wikipedia page as (a) "observer referring to an (inertial) reference frame", or (b) "observer referring to an individu...

@ACuriousMind HE'S BACK
 
 
1 hour later…
11:58 PM
Is it possible for someone with a ton of rep to merely suggest an edit?
 

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