The h Bar

@MartianCactus OK, let's clear something up

and stuff

oh

When we call the Big Bang, we mean that at 13.8 billion years ago, distances were zero

Problem is, you can't have a metric with zero distances

So we really have no clue what happened 13.8 billion years ago

GR doesn't explain it

1:10 PM

Basically the big bang is a singularity and likely wasn't a real event (just a theoretical extrapolation)

GR?

some quantum phenonomon might explain the singularity instead?

what is that?

@Kenshin It's more of a confusion. No cosmologist understands what happened.

It's almost a contradiction.

@MartianCactus Einstein's theory of General relativity, aka our modern theory of gravity

i mean a few moments after the big bang

1:11 PM

Yes the big bang theory is very speculative

yet atheists love this theory as representing the orgin of the universe

Some extensions of GR have emerged, like quantum gravity, to try and solve these problems

oh

Though not much progress has been done

i just came up with a joke!

dirty one

I think we should build a larger hadron coollider

tell me da joke i love jokes

1:12 PM

@MartianCactus Something about a big bang?

"The Universe was born with the big BANG"

ya

Called it :P

..

It's better than the "uranus" jokes

yes

once my name was

1:12 PM

Or how at the quantum scale, "size doesn't matter! Hurr hurr hurr"

on a

UranusCactus

minecraft server

Why was it born with the big bang?

Balarka Sen

@AccidentalFourierTransform Much more interesting if you perform a disembowelment on the rabbit.

@Kenshin I'd really like to show the derivation, but I have to leave really soon

I mean th ejoke

1:13 PM

It's surprisingly simple for a universe expanding at a constant rate

Oh...

is it cos all babys are born after a big bang?

@MartianCactus Now I got a cool fact for you

ha

Something you'll find awesome

oh so small bang = child

big bang = universe

1:15 PM

Remember how we said, "by the universe's expansion, we mean that space is expanding"

what face?

yes

That is, space is literally being created between matter

space is multiplying

yes

oh no

yes space is expanding cos the universe is pregnant

..

1:15 PM

An awesome effect of this is that, if space is created between matter at a fast enough rate, those objects can retreat from us faster than the speed of light

Einstein said nothing can move through space faster than light; but here, space itself is being created

Distances are literally increasing

Why is that awesome?

What's so good about that?

@Kenshin Because fduck light

heres an email i sent to a person

It thinks it's the king

YEah

@SirCumference you can achieve that without space expansion

Suppose I send rocket A right at 0.9c

and rocket B left at 0.9c

ACuriousMind

1:16 PM

@SirCumference Mhhh, space "being created" is not really a meaningful statement since space is not a material substance.

@ACuriousMind I know, I know

then from my perspective A and B anre seperating out faster than light

@ACuriousMind something doesn't have to be "material" to be created

what's your definition of "created" @ACuriousMind

@ACuriousMind It's surprisingly useful for some people, since it's simpler than talking about coordinate systems and gets pretty much the same point across

@SirCumference coordinate systems aren't real

@Kenshin I don't get your point

...no pun intended

1:18 PM

@SirCumference well let's talk about real things

@Kenshin What's real?

Are you real?

you tell me

you tell me what's real you're the expert

I dunno, you brought it up

Anyway, @MartianCactus that means that galaxies can recede from us faster than light

Well I"m just saying talking about creation is just as good as talking about coordinate systems

because both are representations of reality

We call those objects "superluminal galaxies"

1:19 PM

coordinate systems aren't any better

than saying it is created

@Kenshin Coordinate systems can give you a better feel, in some cases

unless you want to get into the magnitude of the effect (which we aren't interested in here)

Though they're harder to explain to someone new to cosmology

wait brb

@MartianCactus When I have more time I'll try to get into greater detail

Cosmology is a pretty awesome subject

1:21 PM

what

Q: Is it metaphysically possible for a belief to act directly?

I seriously need to study some metaphysics. I completely lack the machinery of metaphysics to formulate my investigation on metaphysical objects (often abstract)

0

(This question is splited from another question as suggested by moderators) Ever since reading this NewScientist issue on how even if for some beliefs that despite being based on falsehoods, can have actual impacts to the world via cultural influences, I started to wonder about the nature of bel...

how can they recede faster than light?

@SirCumference suppose A and B were particles close together at the time of the big bang

and whats the difference between astronomy and cosmolog

is it possible for A and B after expansion to no longer be reachable from each other (due to speed of light limit)?

1:21 PM

5 mins ago, by Sir Cumference

An awesome effect of this is that, if space is created between matter at a fast enough rate, those objects can retreat from us faster than the speed of light

5 mins ago, by Sir Cumference

Einstein said nothing can move through space faster than light; but here, space itself is being created

to have been permantly seperated by evil space? so they can no longer see one another again

5 mins ago, by Sir Cumference

Distances are literally increasing

because astronomy is how i got in science and tech

plato.stanford.edu/entries/abstract-objects

ohhh

omg thats cool

but then is it

1:22 PM

@MartianCactus Astronomy is the study of what's in the universe. Cosmology is the branch of astronomy explaining how the universe is evolving.

astrology is better tho

theoritically even "moving" ?

Gtg

@MartianCactus Not really :)

ohh

moving is going through space

but here

we are at the same place

but here space is being inserted

1:23 PM

but space is increasing

so galaxies are not moving away from us

space is being added inbetween

but distance between other galaxies and us is increasing

yep that's the theory

now can you see the link between this an blowing a baloon?

leave it to space to increase distance without moving stuff

yep

1:24 PM

yeah

so in blowing a baloon

are the points moving or is space being inserted?

well space isnt being inserted

so they are moving

rubber is being stretced

the balloon example is a 2-d universe

so points of rubber are moving apart

so "space" in this example is the surface of the balloon

2d??

yep

1:25 PM

balloon is 3d

only the 2d surface of the balloon is the space in this 2d model

the balloon is 3d

but

we are considering only the 2d surface as bein gthe "universe" in this analogy

imagine ants walk along the ballloon

and these 2d ants can never move up or down

they are 2d beings in a 2d universe

now as you blow up the balloon, the universe of these ants gets bigger (there is now more surface area)

so the ants get further from each other, because more surface area is being added (space being created)

but instead of rubber being stretched

and ants are we

space is added

Who flagged me?

yep

so does that mean

the space between me and my computer is increaisng?

1:28 PM

yes

but far too small to notice

because dark energy here is less compared to outer space

the increase in space is so small that it is only noticed over vast vast distances

there is more dark matter which contains things together and assist gravity

e.g. maybe for every meter of space you might get an increase of 0.00000000000001 m

over..vast distances?

1:29 PM

ytes

e.g. every meter will produce a certain amount of space per second

@Kenshin Yes it's possible.

@SirCumference mean universe sepearting these brothers

so me and my computer and galaxies are being pulled away at the same rate?

yes

Something of note is that many galaxies receding from us FTL are still visible

1:30 PM

i dont think so

it's true

because there more dark energy in outer space and less dark matter than it is here

nothing to do with dark energy

FTL? meaning?

FTL = faster than light

1:30 PM

@MartianCactus Faster than light

oh

so if they are going away at faster than light

@MartianCactus every meter produces a certain amount of new space. Now because there is billions of meters between galaxies, they produce alot more space

and say for every trillion meters one meter is being added

so that is SOOO MUCH

wtf

thats hard to grasp

yeah I'd have to check wha tthe rate is

let me find it, it is the "hubble constant" or something

if all of space time is multiplying

1:32 PM

@SirCumference so why can't the universe be RP3

70.4 kilometers per second per megaparsec

then in which direction are they being added?

and one what points?

like a balloon

all directions

what is a megaparsec?

oh..

in what direction is space added in a balooon? It is added inbetween all points

1:33 PM

so universe is a ball?

well the balloon is a 2d surface in a 3d world

our universe is a 3d world perhaps embedded in a hidden 4th dimension

4th is time

well 5th then

i'm talking spatial dimensions here

not hidden

but space is not time

yes i'm talking about spatial dimensions only

there may be a 4-th spatial dimension

1:34 PM

so space is 3d only

oh..

but this isn't confirmed

all that is known is that space is being added everywhere

i hate it when it sayys "post this after 12 sec"

similar to the balloon case

but remember the baloon is an anaology

so space isn't necessarily a ball

but it seems to behave as if it was one in this instance

so lets say distance between 2 chips in a phone is increasing

then we move the phone

btw 1 megaparsek is 3.086e+22 meters

1:36 PM

is it still increasing?

ohh thats a lot xd

not even a mole

less than water molecules in a glass

that's not a lot to me

..

so 70km of new distance is added per second for every 3.086e+22 meters of existing distance

so let's figure out how much distance is added per meter

1 km

lol

1:39 PM

that big number / 70

= x

no

im not saying that xd

it's not physics but may help with the other post that you deleted

@Kenshin please do not post illegal book links on the chat

oh sorry I didn't know it was illegal

1 km every that big number / 70 = x

@0celo7 in my country, North Korea it is ok

1:40 PM

Huh? Piracy is illegal

laws are dependent on country aren't they?

You're not in North Korea

1000 meter = that big number / 70000 = x

And this is a western website

so it is that big number / 7

1:41 PM

@0celo7 so do all western countries have the same law now?

that made no sense

wait it did

and can only westerns visit western websites

some books like 1984 are in public domain in canada, australia, argentina, etc. but not in the USA for several decades

1 meter every that big number / 7

or 7.2

Yeah. It's also chat policy that one should not post lib gen links here

1:41 PM

so you can download it for free in several countries but not in the US, legally

But you do whatever you want

why should i read that book

I have no desire to help psychopaths

soooooo

@0celo7 thanks I've flagged my comment for a moderator to delete it just in case someone takes offense :)

1:43 PM

@MartianCactus cos in that post you question the meaning of life

wait you did read that?

lol

ty @ArtofCode

@MartianCactus yes I did read your post

you posted it for us to read didn't you/

where is that book ?

it's gone now

libgen links aren't allowed

1:44 PM

but then i deleted it as it didnt expand xd

can you gimme the link again?

sorry I can't

I can give you the name of the book

hang on

@MartianCactus dude

Have some basic decency

Don't steal books

The book is called "Happier: Learn the Secrets to Daily Joy and Lasting Fulfillment"

It is written by a Harvard psychology professeur

1:45 PM

why you reoved the link?

and he has applied psccyhology to understanind thte ultimate guide to happiness

and it covers what motivates people and what brings lasting meaning etc.

@MartianCactus because it's not allowed

Can you read?

Nothingness exists, but it is possibly an abstract object

guide to happiness is get an education to understand papers in physics

i didnt get what the link was

1:46 PM

Oh my god

..

ok so

if we colonize the universe , find god and stuff

i get this weird feeling

"what will it change?"

life is still life

humans need progress

we will sitll keep living

just with more facilities

let's focus on AI first, then create robots to colonize the solar system, we humans are too hard to sustain

we seek two things

(1) current pleasure and (2) future benefit and meaning

1:47 PM

and one day we will get bored of "living"

For me, I will only need to worry about "what then" when we reached that then

so the ideal activity will satisfy both (1) and (2)

@MartianCactus you wont' get bored if you satisify (1) and (2) like the book sayss

e.g. if you are training to become a professional soccer player

well immortality is of no meaning as one day we will get bored of living

you experience (1) pleasure due to flow and enjoyment and challenge

@MartianCactus With the same logic, we will also get bored of dying, somethign in between, existing and not existing, and ultimately, change and eternity

1:48 PM

but at the same time mortality is of no meaning either as you will no longer exist

and (2) future benefit/meaning due to increasing skill and increasing chance of future success

so why exist?

@MartianCactus tyou won't get bored that's wy

why should anything exist?

shouldnt there be nothing anyway?

if you're in a state of flow and can find ways to produce future pleasure you can remain happy and never be bored

1:49 PM

how can there be anythhing?

what created anything and nothing

and what created that

who cares

why does this matter

turtles all the way down

thats the question

why should existence exist?

This conversation is pretty pointless for the physics chat

who cares why it should exist or not

1:50 PM

@Secret YOU ATE TURTLES?!?!

i know

let,s talk about physics please

alright lets drop the topic :P

you should only care about yourself and your happiness

anyway let's calculate how much distance is added between us and our computers

let us assume we sit 1 m back from our computer

i will wait a sec

and given 70km space creation per second per 3.086e+22 meters of space

1:51 PM

kenshin do the size of the atoms also expands?

THis equates to 2.26831E-18m of space creation per meter

each second

so each second the distance between you and your computer expands by 2.26831E-06 picometers

@0celo7 what do you think of using landau's books to study solid state physics

@no_choice99 the size of atoms won't expand

it is space that expands over time

but the attraction between the proton and the electron will ensure the size of the atom remains constant

ok

so while temporarily some space might be added between the proton and the electron

the proton will quickly pull the electron back into place again

ACuriousMind

1:57 PM

@Kenshin It doesn't, bound systems do not expand in that sense since there are restoring forces (in this case the force of gravity binding both you and your computer to earth)

@ACuriousMind yep i agree

ACuriousMind

Also, the universe is not FLRW on our scales, so it doesn't expand in that sense to begin with

uh what? no space expansion due to a force?

@no_choice99 it's like the proton - electron scenario

space expands

FLRW?