« first day (2591 days earlier)      last day (2328 days later) » 

5:00 PM
Shog is on it, now.
 
it's over 19000
 
yeah, as of over 2 days ago
 
Appendix C: On Method and Truth
christ, I just wanted to learn some physics
 
that's a great idea...
 
5:10 PM
I love this
 
"We can say that GR is the discovery that there is no spacetime at all."
How high was this guy when writing this introduction
 
user228700
'Night, all! :-)
 
bye
 
cya
:-)
 
@Blue what's a good reading source for learning inorganic chemistry
to learn them chemicals asap
asap rocky
 
5:17 PM
A$AP Ferg is the best one
 
you don't like the khan academy?
(removed)
 
@0celo7 i picked that catchphrase from filthy frank
check out "I hate vegans", 7:50
 
boo
 
Child: "I hate vegans"
Mother: "Well leave them on the side of your plate, dear"
 
LQG doesn't unify? Radical
> no SUSY
amazing
 
5:24 PM
I'm home ladies
@0celo7 LQG is just GR and quantization
not much else
it's a fancy quantization but nothing beyond that
 
yeah but it's got the word quantum in it so it must be cool.
 
what's up with Eq. (1.1) on page 11
why does he require $\phi^* W=W$
 
Because it's a measurable thing I guess?
don't want probabilities to vary with coordinates
 
well then what he's saying makes no sense
if he really just means coordinate invarance, how does he get that it's constant?
what he wrote is $\phi^*W=W$
 
Oh
Hm
 
5:28 PM
where $\phi$ is the local diffeo giving that coordinate change
 
Oh I think it's that old QG chesnut
About how it's hard to get measurable quantities or something?
 
@ACuriousMind halp
 
Because a lot are supposed to be constant
Due to diffeomorphism invariance
or something
Because if you require diffeomorphisms to be a symmetry basically most things are constant or something?
something like that
 
@ACuriousMind I need QFT help
@Slereah this intro chapter is too long
I can't pay attention to words this long
 
What kind of crazy man reads the first chapter of a textbook
 
5:31 PM
@MoziburUllah hello.
 
The first chapter is always the same
 
> Heisenberg's starting point was the philosophical judgement, that a physical theory should not concern itself with things like electron orbits in atoms that can never be observed. This is a risky assumption, but it served Heisenberg well.
That doesn't say anything about matrices.
 
@DanielSank: Hi
 
Just stipulating that a theory should involve observable quantities says absolutely nothing at all about why matrices would come into the picture.
 
@DanielSank Isn't that about the S-matrix
 
5:32 PM
It's not irrelevant, as the observables in Heisenberg's theory did wind up being represented by matrices, but your answer offers no insight as to why.
 
Usually that's where people go with this
 
fine I'll go to chapter 2
"General Relativity" should be easy
 
Chapter 2 is all GR
 
@DanielSank:No , that doesn't but I go on to say "Hence he fastened on the energies of atomic states, and the rates at which atoms spontaneously make radiative transitions from one state to another state, as the observables on which to base a physical theory."
 
Well it's weird GR
There's a lot of diffeomorphism talk
you may not like it
 
5:33 PM
@MoziburUllah Ok and how is that related, in any way, to matrices?
 
@DanielSank: because the transition rates from different levels give matrices.
 
A major difference between matrices and numbers is that matrices don't commute. Why should a physical theory have non-commuting observables?
Your answer says nothing about that.
 
"the gravitational field is a 1-form"
garbage
 
@DanielSank: I wasn't intending to say everything about Matrix Mechanics in 15 lines...
 
@MoziburUllah But you said nothing about it.
I'm not here to criticize, I'm just pointing out that the answer doesn't actually address the question.
 
5:35 PM
@DanielSank: because I've said other things that are important...
 
Your comment on the main site was rather defensive. I hope you'll see past that.
 
@0celo7 well a set of 1-forms
 
1-form with values in minkowski space
 
@DanielSank: I don't think so. Theres no need to patronise me.
 
@MoziburUllah Ok fine but that's like someone asking why the sky is blue and you explain why train engines work. Trains are useful, but it doesn't answer the question :-)
If you feel patronized then I'm not sure what to do.
 
5:36 PM
@DanielSank: theres no connection between the two.
Heisenberg himself didn't know he was using matrices...
 
But Minkowski space has cardinality $\mathfrak c$!
 
Secondly whislt numbers commute, putting them in arrays won't.
 
@Slereah is that a zero on the RHS of (2.10)
 
Whether or not he knew they were called matrices isn't the point. He was doing matrix algebra whether or not he knew what it was called.
 
That's a lot of dimensions
@0celo7 yes
 
5:37 PM
@MoziburUllah Ok and so why should the momentum of something be an array of numbers?
 
looks like a capital o
 
Sure, you can organize transition rates into a matrix, but you can do that in classical mechanics too.
 
(2.11) is an abomination
 
You can solve diffusion problems on discrete domains using matrices.
That's not what makes quantum mechanics different. In quantum mechanics, things like momentum and position are matrices.
 
Yeah he does everything in differential forms
Well not everything
but a lot
 
5:39 PM
Calling them matrices is a bit like calling the train a car, tbh
 
@DanielSank: I tend to think them as operators; a matrice is an operator in a basis.
 
We're talking about this
6
Q: How did Heisenberg come up with matrix mechanics?

Matt0410I have learnt that matrix mechanics came before Schroedinger's wave mechanics, however introductory quantum mechanics textbooks introduce you to wave mechanics first. The way in which the transition to matrix mechanics is made is by defining the matrix elements: $$ H_{mn} = \int _{-\infty}^{+\in...

 
@DanielSank: And was that done before Heisenberg? Had matrices been used in physics before he used them, or was his discovery of matrices what made them promiment.
 
@MoziburUllah I strongly doubt that Heisenberg was the first person to use a matrix in a physics problem.
Without detailed historical study, I don't know for sure.
 
@DanielSank surely Cauchy used them to study elasticity
 
5:41 PM
@0celo7 Surely.
And surely others used them to model diffiusion problems and other Markov processes.
 
Anonymous
@BalarkaSen NCERT :P
 
Matrices were used in physics before but they were uncommon before quantum mechanics
Before that a lot of physicists just wrote a bunch of equations
 
@Blue Not a fantastic read
 
@Slereah wait, is Rovelli saying that the presence of fermions breaks the equivalence between Palatini and Einstein-Hilbert??
 
Right but when people talk about Heisenberg's matrix mechanics, they're not just talking about using matrices in a mechanics problem.
 
5:43 PM
@0celo7 Not Palatini
Einstein-Cartan
 
I can use a matrix to help solve a system of coupled harmonic oscillators, but that doesn't make quantum mechanics!
 
is (2.12) not Palatini
 
Anonymous
@BalarkaSen Uh, I mostly used video lectures for chemistry...so I don't know any other book. NCERT was good enough for me.
 
The funny thing about quantum is that the observables themselves don't commute.
 
I thnk you're telling @MoziburUllah how to succ eggs
 
5:44 PM
Nah
The first-order formalism is when you consider the frame field and the connection to be independant
 
that's palatini
 
Second-order formalism is when you have a Levi Civitta connection
 
@danielSank: This answer that you're concerned with I wrote over a year ago; I, right now, recall very little about the circumstances in which I wrote it; most likely I'd read Weinbergs historical summary in his book and wrote a brief summary of that in the answer.
 
Isn't Palatini the entirely torsion one?
 
Palatini is independent metric and Christoffel
put in forms, indep frame and spin connection
 
5:45 PM
@MoziburUllah Ok and all I did was point out that it doesn't answer OP's question. That's all.
 
Ah, so it's torsion + non-metricity
 
By the way, from your own comment:
> "Up until this time, matrices were seldom used by physicists; they were considered to belong to the realm of pure mathematics. Gustav Mie had used them in a paper on electrodynamics in 1912 and Born had used them in his work on the lattices theory of crystals in 1921."
 
But yeah, Palatini and EH are the same if there's no fermions
Because the spin tensor is 0
 
ok
 
So when you ask:
> Had matrices been used in physics before he used them, or was his discovery of matrices what made them promiment.
I would answer, yes, matrices had been used before Heisenberg.
 
5:46 PM
@Slereah rovelli isn't very mathematical
 
@DanielSank: I think you're nit-picking, what I wrote was relevant to the question; even if there were other ways to answer it.
2
 
Well i guess not by math people standards
 
@MoziburUllah Ok, I guess we will just disagree.
 
@DanielSank: do you know that or have you guessed; because I would have guessed yes too.
 
if a LQG researcher gets funds to do research are they wasting them or are they wasting them? @Slereah
 
5:48 PM
@ooolb Fortunately nobody actually pays theoretical physicists a decent living
 
@JohnRennie ::sobs:: I have to get Fortran to solve the heat equation
 
@ooolb theoretical physicists are cheap. It's worth funding the more unlikely areas just out of curiousity to see how they develop.
 
Plus really what do you even need to invest
Salaries
Journal subscription
A PC
 
@JohnRennie am i a theorophobe now? :p
 
Some paper
a whiteboard
 
5:50 PM
pens
 
That's about it
 
@0celo7 What kind of QFT help?
 
@CooperCape use blood like a real man
 
@ooolb Unless a research area is blatantly a blind alley I would be hesitant to start refusing it funding.
 
@0celo7 So when people say lengthways for effects they mean to refill their cartridge?
 
5:51 PM
@JohnRennie same
it was supposed to a be a funny
clearly not
 
@0celo7 should be straightforward. People have been using Fortran to solve PDEs for decades.
 
@ACuriousMind Messer Rovelli says that the $n$-point function $W=W(x_1,\dotsc, x_n)$ should satisfy $\phi^*W=W$ whenever $\phi$ is a coordinate change
and therefore $W$ is constant
I think this is bullshit math
specifically, he writes $W(x_1,\dotsc,x_n)=W(x'(x_1),\dotsc, x'(x_n))$
 
@0celo7 though I have to say that I think time spent teaching students how to solve PDEs in Fortran could be put to better uses.
 
@JohnRennie I have to teach myself
 
@MoziburUllah I don't understand.
 
5:54 PM
Same applies. You could be spending the time learning how to do it in a more modern language. Even using C would be better.
 
@ACuriousMind I mean, I don't even know what the domain of $W$ is, or if the two $W$'s are supposed to be exactly the same thing. Nothing is defined properly. How do physicists do this?
 
@0celo7 Sounds like he's doing the old confusion between "diffeomorphism" and "local Lorentz transformation" :P
 
@JohnRennie Agreed.
 
But, in any case, I think I'd need more context to judge the claim
 
@ACuriousMind let me see if I have a PDF
you might have to work with a picture
 
5:56 PM
Wait, is it Rovelli's book?
I have access to that
Which page?
 
8
I mean, this is complete nonsense. Surely QFT is coordinate independent.
 
@0celo7 it's QFT + diffeomorphism invariance
It's QG shenanigans
 
He's talking about coordinate changes, not diffeomorphisms
 
If I say "same thing", will you get mad
 
No matter what I say, you're gonna say it
 
6:00 PM
@Slereah All QFT is "diffeomorphism invariant". The Yang-Mills action is "diffeomorphism invariant" in precisely the same sense as the E-H action is, and yet it has a well-known and consistent quantum theory.
 
Well I don't know how you'd call it then
 
I concur with 0celo7 that this statement is non-sensical, but it is a form of non-sense all too often encountered when people talk about GR
 
Well that's the kind of nonsense you get a lot in QG books I suppose
 
I mean, clearly SUGRA theory also must include this "diffeomorphism invariance" Rovelli is talking about, yet no one working on them claims their n-point functions are trivial.
The $W$ is a scalar function of n points in spacetime, a coordinate change or a diffeomorphism does precisely nothing to it.
 
@ACuriousMind Well, that's not true
a diffeomorphism does $\phi^*W=W\circ\phi$, trivially
 
6:03 PM
Yes, sure. That's "nothing" ;)
 
but he wrote $\phi^*W=W$
 
Yeah, that doesn't follow at all - by that argument all observables in GR are constant, aren't they? :P
 
All observables in basically every physical theory ever are all constant.
 
So now the question is
Should we send him an email
And risk angering him by saying it's all based on a lie
 
"Learn math dude"
"Maybe you should read Lee, Smooth Manifolds"
 
6:06 PM
Loop quantum gravity : DESTROYED
Although I don't know if that kind of stuff actually comes up in LQG itself
I never went beyond chapter 6
 
Maybe not
In any case, I'll abandon that book
I do have to give a talk on Hamiltonian GR in January tho
 
The question is, is Modern bla bla bla better
Let's see if there's any paper on "Why QG without time is dumb"
 
Of course UK has a shakespeare one...
 
Maybe that should be a PSE question
"Is Rovelli a crank"
 
6:10 PM
do it, I will upvote
 
Pretty mean
 
inb4 't Hooft answers
 
But I do wonder if it's a real thing or if it's some kind of misconception
Although maybe I should look up Carlip too
He too blabs up about the topic
 
it's snowing
 
@CooperCape the corniest, no less
I find Shakespeare on the most part to be corny
 
6:15 PM
@0celo7 xkcd 1845
 
Maybe
Maybe Motl was right all along
Wait
If anyone has an article on that topic
It's gonna be Motl
Let's check his blog
Oh apparently that might be a thing?
Like there's diffeomorphism invariance and difference under coordinate transformation?
And it's the old active vs passive diffeomorphism thing, maybe?
 
Compared to other classic epics like Divine Comedy and Dox Quixote (which is fire fire emojies), Shakespeare sucks
 
I think that Lubos Motl and Balarka Sen are the two greatest minds of the 21st century
So Lubos is probably right about everything
 
the world just isn't ready for it
 
wonder where Lubos is working now
 
Probably down at the coal mine
Or wherever the czech lower class goes
 
savage
 
Related thread
But neither active nor passive diffeomorphisms seem to be eq. 1 though
 
active/passive diffeo
ugh
 
6:23 PM
So I don't know what that's about
 
@ACuriousMind is active/passive the difference between pullback/pushforward
 
@0celo7 He defines it
p. 63
 
too hard to read
I've gotta get home and eat something
I'm about to pass out
murrica
 
I am making food right now
Steak and fries
All American dinner
 
Fries ain't American, they're French. Baked patato; now that's American :P
 
6:35 PM
@BalarkaSen Had to study that poem for my English lit GCSE - can't remember much of it to be honest. Although my friend's applied for English lit at uni and he always laughs at shakespeare like wtf dude.
 
They're not French fries
They're Freedom fries
 
Fried in Iraqi oil
 
TIL
still, baked patatoe is vice presidentially approved :-D
 
6:53 PM
I don't get it
 
nothin to "get"
it's politics
\o @SirCumference
 
 
1 hour later…
7:57 PM
@CooperCape it goes like
shall i compare thee to a summer day /
be my girl imma call you my bae /
i can't remember the next line
 
Ahh that classic
@BalarkaSen I think "I can't remember the next line" is one of his more famous lines, no?
 
@Slereah 'Note the bizarre formulation "we experts"'
 
what
 
but yeah shall i compare thee is a really droll poem
 
From the article you linked to
 
8:00 PM
o
 
@CooperCape of Shakespeare or of the fictional author of the two bars of the rap song I made up?
 
Put downs like that are vicious when used properly, embarrassing when used incorrectly
 
Shakespeare is the english language so what gives...
 
i dont speak shakespearian english bro
 
Thou shall love
The work of the bard
 
8:03 PM
Shakespearian prose was the txt-speak of his day
 
^True
 
and plays performed in bars near the places well-to-do society only frequented under the cover of darkness etc
haha
 
no idea why it was so popular mane
 
I guess $\gamma_5$ in the RS action $ = - \frac{1}{2} \int d^4 x \, \varepsilon^{\mu \nu \rho \sigma} \overline{\Psi}_{\mu} \gamma_5 \gamma_{\nu} \partial_{\rho} \Psi_{\sigma}$ is put in as a 'pseudo-scalar' to counter the behaviour of $\varepsilon$?
 
I COME TO BURY @CooperCape NOT TO PRAISE HIM
 
8:08 PM
Hark! A messenger from the depths of the church - Bringing hatred amongst the work of playwrights.
 
@bolbteppa That's an axial current, so yeah
Wouldn't be much of a scalar otherwise
 
Good stuff!
 
You know the feels when you answer a question then the more you read it the more wrong things you see and you end up editing it like 20 times over the course of 10 minutes...
 
It's amazing how much insanely complicated stuff arises in susy/sugra from very simple observations
 
The Rarita Schwinger action is bogus though
 
8:09 PM
doesn't editing too much make your answer community wiki
 
It's not even causal
Although it's fine in SUSY I hear?
Dunno why it behaves better there
 
@BalarkaSen I'm not sure... Haven't edited things heavily before...
Pretty sure it's still mine (for now...)
 
In susy when you make the infinitesimal spinor generator local you add an index which leads to spin 3/2 and rarita-schwinger unavoidably as far as I understand, and consistency somehow follows
 
Well I know why it appears
Just not why it behaves well
 
causality is just a buzzword for me still sadly
 
8:15 PM
@Bernardo the movies are fully uploaded now, right?
 
@bolbteppa Field propagating outside the lightcone
 
Or maybe it's local I meant, yeah, what am I thinking
 
Local means that the lagrangian depends only of a single point
You can get some pretty fucked up things if you have a Lagrangian of a region
Like $$\mathcal L = (\nabla \varphi)^2 + \int \varphi f(x,y) dy$$
 
I always plan on looking into such things when I finish the main things I want to do, there's just so so so so so so so much stuff left to do, and re-do
Maybe the Schrodinger equation with a relativistic Hamiltonian (the thing that leads to the dirac equation by squaring) is fine when you expand that square root, books just say it isn't because locality is scary, no idea why! ahh
 
 
2 hours later…
10:09 PM
@Slereah explain
 
Well the obvious I s'ppose
 
@Slereah such as?
 
Also IIRC it can be Lorentz invariant but violate the CPT invariance?
@0celo7 Lack of the ol' causality
Like $[\phi(x), \phi(y)] \neq 0$ for $x, y$ spacelike
 
10:50 PM
@0celo7 Did anyone take offense? Or was there cheering from the audience?
 
@dmckee cheering
the one algebraist in the audience isn't a huge fan of it either
@Slereah I'm using $p$ as a power and a point on the manifold
that's probably not good
 
11:43 PM
why is the h bar so empty
it's friday night
i don't believe for one min y'all have real lives.
 
I spent my very real life the last few hours by searching for a letter sent to me 10 years ago :P
 
@ACuriousMind who sends letters in 2007
 
German bureaucrats :P
 

« first day (2591 days earlier)      last day (2328 days later) »