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7:00 PM
@ChrisWhite Immigrants make corporations wealthier.
 
@0celo7
> I'm voting for Trump because there's no reason for unskilled immigration in a welfare state.
 
@ChrisWhite well defining what constitutes right and wrong is where religion came in. And religion has been a uniformly positive force in human affairs hasn't it?
 
@DanielSank Yes?
I said this.
You got me
 
But Daniel is right that this won't remain level-headed if I say more, so I won't.
 
7:01 PM
@0celo7 I'm just trying to understand... is Trump's position on immigration more important to you that e.g. his ability to interact with foreign leaders?
 
@DanielSank No.
 
@0celo7 Oh, but you're voting for him because of immigration issues, right?
 
@DanielSank Partially.
 
@JohnRennie All the non-religious philosophers of ethics just turned in their graves :P
 
I'm not going to give you a manifesto of why I'm voting for Trump.
 
user54412
7:02 PM
I didn't want to debate which economic argument was factually correct. Just that ultimately the criterion for illegality might be better off closer to "could I personally imprison someone for this?" rather than "do these actions decrease GDP?"
 
@0celo7 Ok, thanks.
 
@DanielSank I thought JR was talking about immigration.
So I said something related to that.
 
@JohnRennie Can't tell if this is sarcastic or not. I don't think it's obvious that religion is net positive or negative, and I think it's very difficult to even talk about a world without religion.
 
@DanielSank Religion is not a moral system though.
At least, scripture isn't.
 
user54412
@ACuriousMind I feel like you're the only one here who ever speaks up for deontology, even if only to point out it exists.
 
7:03 PM
@0celo7 Tell that to the Catholics who inflicted me with my various bizarre moral standards as a young child.
 
@DanielSank I agree with that, but I wasn't talking about the net benefits of religion
 
@DanielSank I was raised Catholic as well.
It's still not a moral system.
 
@0celo7 Whatever you say, bro.
 
@DanielSank Ok, it is a moral system, but 99.9% of people ignore it.
 
@JohnRennie Ah, key work "uniformly"
 
user54412
7:05 PM
JR did say "uniform" -- though to be fair how many decades were spent in the early years of calculus because convergence and uniform convergence were conflated
 
@0celo7 -_-
 
@DanielSank when it comes to judging religions (all of them) I think you have to consider the variance as well as the mean.
 
Religion is folk metaphysics, we need it (in any form) to reach the idea that life has an inherent value to the uncultured masses
 
@JohnRennie Yeah, I still think that's really hard.
 
@DanielSank It's quite simple, really. Since we don't stone people for adultery, we don't take moral lessons from the bible. There is some higher rule book that says we don't stone people for adultery.
 
7:06 PM
#Schopenhaur #Legend
 
@0celo7 You seem to have missed the entire second act. It's called The New Testament.
 
user54412
@JohnRennie Depends what metric you're using, doesn't it?
 
@0celo7 straw man argument again. The bible says you can stone people if you can find someone with no sin to cast the first stone.
 
Gotta go. Fun shooting the crap with you guys.
 
@DanielSank There's nothing in the New Testament that you would call fucked up shit?
 
7:07 PM
@ChrisWhite I also feel like that. I think it's important to know because it makes it clear that consequentialism is not some sort of automatic default.
 
@0celo7 The New Testament is generally pretty sane
 
@JohnRennie We ignore that too. We don't turn the other cheek, etc.
 
@0celo7 Oh of course I would. What I think is't the point, and a Christian can argue all day that some parts aren't to be taken as models of behavior. That's like saying FPS games are meant to teach us to murder our friends.
 
user54412
@0celo7 well some of us don't anyway :p
 
@JohnRennie coughrevelationcough
 
7:08 PM
OK, Ok, you win that one :-)
 
@DanielSank Aren't them?
 
@DanielSank Oh, so they pick which parts they want to follow based on...mood?
You're not making the case for the Bible being a consistent moral code.
@ChrisWhite 99.9%, see above.
 
@0celo7 Who said anything about consistent.
 
@DanielSank Oh, you don't think morals could or should be consistent, that right?
 
@0celo7 I don't get it. First you criticise the bible because it allows you to stone women. Then when I point out it doesn't you criticise the bible because people don't do what it says.
 
7:09 PM
@0celo7 A self-contradictory moral system is still a moral system, just not a very good one.
 
If you seriously don't think the Bible forms an enormous component of Christian people's daily moral standards, then I don't think we have much to discuss.
 
@all brb PDE lecture.
 
@0celo7 No. Stop being intentionally obtuse. I'm talking about practical life.
 
@0celo7 You should read some Schop, it'd help you think straight for once
 
@DanielSank though be careful to get cause an effect the right way round
 
7:10 PM
@BernardMeurer *Schopenhauer
 
@JohnRennie Of course it's a two way street.
 
@DanielSank I never said that.
 
@0celo7 Go to your lecture.
 
@ACuriousMind We're intimate, I call him Schop
 
I said that (almost) all Christians have a higher code than the bible.
 
7:11 PM
@BernardMeurer o_O
 
@0celo7 whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat?
 
@BernardMeurer I don't care about that, but you wrote "Schopenhaur" up there. Also, that's necrophilia.
3
 
@DanielSank He's been sleeping next to me for a year now; or his book at least. I think that does give me some privileges
@ACuriousMind Not if it's consensual!
 
@JohnRennie It's a standard argument, he's just expressing it badly: Since most Christians do not follow all moral commandments of the Bible, they must have some way to choose which ones. The instance (whatever you think it is) that determines which ones is the "higher code" he's talking about.
 
We've got a starred post that mentions necrophilia - go Physics Chat, go!
 
7:13 PM
@ACuriousMind what
The necrophila thing
Not my inability to speak properly
 
@0celo7 Schop is just great, really, you should give it a read
 
@JohnRennie Hmm...a quick search shows that word had never been uttered thus far ;)
 
Seriously, I don't get the necrophila thing
Is it a German pun?
 
Feb 22 at 17:04, by ACuriousMind
@0celo7 It's so cute when you are confused
 
7:17 PM
@0celo7 Bernard said he was intimate with Schopenthingy
 
Oh, I missed that
 
And the word intimate is often used as a euphomism for having sex with
 
I am tho
 
@JohnRennie wow I'm not 10
 
On a serious note I really do enjoy Schopenhauer's ideas on religion quite a lot and recommend the read of that pdf I linked to everyone
At least the dialogue part that is absolutely stellar
 
7:19 PM
Feb 16 at 2:54, by 0celo7
I'm a 10yo girl on here
You are.
 
I completely forgot about that :/
 
@0celo7 Apologies - it's often hard to judge how to respond in chat
 
@JohnRennie No worries, I was just confused because mobile chat is terrible.
 
I gave up trying to use a phone for any forum type thing. I carry a netbook these days.
 
I have my laptop in clas
In my bag
Christ
 
7:21 PM
@0celo7 you called?
 
But I'm not disrespectful enough to use a laptop in lecture
@JohnRennie overused
 
@0celo7 irresistible though.
You're in a lecture right now?
No wonder you can't prove Gauss' theorem on a Lorentzian manifold.
 
For about 10 minutes now.
 
OK, on that note I really must go. Just don't post anything interesting in the next few minutes.
 
@ACuriousMind Did you see my definition of outward/inward?
 
7:30 PM
@0celo7 Are you talking about sex now?
 
@BernardMeurer No, that'll wait until tomorrow
@ACuriousMind PDE prof just invoked the Gauss theorem -.-
 
7:45 PM
I found this amusing:
> "pd: Sorry for my typos"
 
@DanielSank Why is that amusing?
 
@DanielSank It took me far too long to get why you found that amusing...
@0celo7 It contains a typo.
 
I figured. But I can't find it.
 
@0celo7 What does "pd" mean?
 
Probably some acronym.
 
7:54 PM
@0celo7 -_-
 
What?
 
This reminds me of a hilarious joke made by @Danu (I think) after that post about the sound of Johnson Nyquist noise.
 
@DanielSank Well, what does pd mean?
 
Nov 4 '15 at 20:48, by DanielSank
@Danu That was possibly one of the funniest and most offensive plays on words I've ever read in my entire life.
 
@0celo7 Nothing, it should be "P.S." which means "post script".
@ACuriousMind That was fast.
 
7:58 PM
@DanielSank Ah.
 
@JohnRennie : because we use that local speed of light to define the second and the metre, and then we use them to measure the local speed of light. It's a tautology. See arxiv.org/abs/0705.4507 :
"The unit of time is defined by an oscillating system or the frequency of an atomic transition, and the unit of space is defined in terms of the distance travelled by light in the unit of time. We therefore have a situation akin to saying that the speed of light is “one light-year per year”, i.e. its constancy has become a tautology or a definition".
 
How was I supposed to figure that out?
 
@DanielSank I have a knack for guessing the right search terms B)
 
@0celo7 Wait, now you get it?
Is four months officially the longest recorded time for a punch line to land?
 
@DanielSank Figure what out?
 
8:00 PM
@BernardMeurer : I resent your insinuation that I'm crazy. I've flagged your post.
 
I've never seen the PS thing before.
 
@DanielSank He's talking about the P.S.
 
Oh, I don't understand the other thing either. But that's expected.
 
@0celo7 You...have never seen "PS:" at the end of a letter or post? oO
 
@ACuriousMind Of course I have.
What are you talking about?
 
8:03 PM
2 mins ago, by 0celo7
I've never seen the PS thing before.
You're not making sense.
 
Yeah, I never saw the PS/pd message before today.
Of course I've seen PS before.
 
Uhhhhhhh, I haven't seen it "before today" either. You're still not making sense.
 
@ACuriousMind So it's a normal day in the h Bar.
@ACuriousMind he said it took me four months to get the joke
 
Ok, everyone stop.
There are two jokes here.
 
It can't have taken me four months because I saw it today for the first time.
 
8:05 PM
One came from this post:
20 mins ago, by DanielSank
> "pd: Sorry for my typos"
The joke is that pd is a typo which should be "ps", which means "post script".
The second joke had to do with an old question about the sound of blackbody radiation.
At the time @0celo7 didn't get the joke.
 
At least this makes more sense than my PDE lecture.
 
I thought he got it just now when he said:
8 mins ago, by 0celo7
@DanielSank Ah.
 
@DanielSank I've never seen the joke before.
 
But apparently I misunderstood that.
@0celo7 Yes you did. You commented about it in the chat log.
 
Proof?
 
8:07 PM
Nov 4 '15 at 21:13, by 0celo7
@Danu tell me pls
 
I estimate that 56% of the humor came from you begging @Danu to explain it while he and I laughed.
 
(If anything, this just goes to show my poor memory. @ACuriousMind still doesn't believe there's anything wrong with me.)
 
Oh my goodness this whole thing is comedy gold.
What an absurd exchange.
 
@JohnRennie : yes, I do disagree with your distinction between coordinate and local velocity of light because Einstein said the speed of light varies. See the gif below. It features two gedanken light clocks at different elevations. The lower clock runs slower. Not because time is slower, but because light is slower. Those two light pulses are not travelling at the same speed.
 
@DanielSank I think this was the maximum possible confusion that could have been generated by posting the pd thingy
 
8:11 PM
@ACuriousMind Yeah, we're obeying the laws of thermo here: maximizing entropy.
 
Can someone please tell me what the joke is
 
@0celo7 "PS" is misspelled
(Sorry couldn't resist :D )
 
@ACuriousMind no, in the other one
 
@0celo7 Let me put it like this... explaining this joke explicitly would require typing words and phrases which, to me as a US citizen, I have been conditioned not to type.
 
You could say it's black humor.
 
8:14 PM
What? Please
 
Heyoooooo
 
I have an innocent mind, I don't get it
@DanielSank What do you mean "as an American citizen"
I type anything that comes to mind
Doesn't matter that I'm American
 
Oh shit I should not have said that.
Here comes the rant about how Trump says what he thinks etc. etc.
 
What?
I'm not going to campaign for Trump on PSE chat
 
@0celo7 What do you call a stochastic signal whose power spectrum is independent of frequency?
 
8:19 PM
No clue.
I'd probably ask you.
Why would you ask me that, you know I don't know physics.
 
@0celo7 I'm trying to help you understand the joke.
 
Ok, I don't know what a stochastic signal or a power spectrum is.
I probably don't know what frequency is either.
 
@0celo7 I see.
 
8:45 PM
@DanielSank well?
@DanielSank Someone asked about what a blackbody sounds like and Danu posted black people music.
Is that all that happened or was there something subtle that I missed?
@ACuriousMind Can you please just explain the joke?
 
9:02 PM
@0celo7 No
 
10
Q: Is it OK to add citations from low impact factor journals?

phyphenomenonFor example, let us consider that I write a manuscript which is to be submitted to one of the prestigious journals such as PRL, PRB, etc. In this manuscript, is it OK to cite from some journals which are generally considered as not-so-prestigious journals? If I cite more papers from low impact fa...

::facepalm::
 
@ACuriousMind Did I understand it correctly then?
 
@0celo7 How is answering that question not explaining the joke?
 
@ACuriousMind Oh come on.
It's a simple yes or no.
You can say it in German so no one will know.
 
@ACuriousMind I have a bunch of QFT questions with no answers. Is it because of lack of interest, or because there's a really simple answer I'm missing?
Example:
1
Q: Vacuum has both zero four-momentum and nonzero vacuum energy?

knzhouI have heard that in QFT, the vacuum has zero four-momentum: $$P^\mu |\Omega \rangle = 0.$$ However, I also know that the vacuum has vacuum energy, i.e. $$ \langle \Omega | H | \Omega \rangle = E_0 \neq 0.$$ In textbooks, we patch up the latter equation by subtracting an infinite constant, and ar...

 
9:07 PM
@knzhou That's a good question. I didn't see it before and will now proceed to answer it ;)
Also, @Slereah, shame on you for hinting at the answer but not actually giving it! :P
 
@ACuriousMind Maybe I should read some literature on induced orientations on the boundary of manifolds with boundary.
Perhaps Lee will contain some insights...
@ACuriousMind It has to be that in the Lorentzian case we just get a minus sign somewhere, right?
 
@0celo7 There's a play on words. Forget it.
 
@DanielSank Oh just tell me.
 
@0celo7 Nope. Prefer to troll you. Karma's a bitch.
 
@DanielSank What karma? I don't troll you.
 
9:16 PM
@0celo7 Uh huh, right.
 
@DanielSank Especially not when you explicitly ask me to be serious.
 
9:34 PM
@ACuriousMind I'm a lazy man
Also wait
How can the vacuum both have energy and be Lorentz invariant
:O
 
@Slereah QFT is wrong.
 
I mean
If we switch to another frame
Shouldn't it acquire momentum then?
 
@Slereah I wouldn't really say the "vacuum has energy". The "vacuum energy" is really just the renormalization parameter input you have to give because the 0-point function is divergent due to vacuum bubbles
 
Which sounds weird for the vacuum
Well yes but the renormalization is only for QFT
The VEV is important for quantum gravity
Is the vacuum not Lorentz invariant if you have an energy with some cutoff
Although I guess cutoffs generally make things not Lorentz invariant
 
I think that's precisely the reason why you get such issues with searching for the "correct" vacuum in curved spacetime.
You can't expect a unique Lorentz invariant vacuum, and indeed, you don't get one, see Unruh effect.
 
9:46 PM
oh Jesus I have to calculate the energy of a damped forced pendulum
wtf physics homework
 
That's a perfectly normal exercise, stop whining :P
 
@ACuriousMind I don't think I can do it
(at least not before my Verabredung)
is that even a word
mb not, who cares
 
Yes. It means anything between a date and a meeting, depending on with which intonation you say it.
 
Analysis today: theorem. (some theorem about limits of functions) Proof: homework.
:/
for an hour
 
10:22 PM
17
Q: How can I ask a teacher to follow the textbook more closely?

hjhjhj57This term I'm taking a (graduate) course which is crucial for my degree. The teacher's plan for the course is quite ambitious and all along he's been following the structure of a given text, but he doesn't follow it completely and quite often omits (what I consider) key results from it, e.g. resu...

Academia's HNQs are exceptionally silly today
 
10:35 PM
@ACuriousMind Why is that silly?
 
@0celo7 From the question it is evident that the user is able to read and understand the book on their own, and does so independently of the lecture. Why would they want the lecturer to waste their time with things they can look up on their own?
More flippantly:
@PatriciaShanahan I would listen to their request. But, you say this student does understand the material in the book? Then what is the problem? Is it just that they want to learn less than I am teaching? — Colin McLarty 9 hours ago
 
@ACuriousMind Hmm, maybe the book is bad/tough
Maybe they want other people in the class to get the benefit of the extra material
 
> he doesn't follow it completely and quite often omits (what I consider) key results from it, e.g. results which motivate or deepen the understanding of definitions or other results.
Doesn't sound like a bad book, and why would you want him to follow a bad book more closely?
 
@ACuriousMind I don't see how that's a response.
Bad as in very hard
poor choice of words
 
Noooo
 
10:45 PM
Sup folks
@ACuriousMind Skype?
 
@0celo7 Again, why would you want to follow the book instead of learning what the lecturer teaches? The point of taking a course is learning things, not learning what is in a book
 
@ACuriousMind Most people learn better from a lecture than a book
 
@0celo7 That'd be terribly sweet of them, but the other people are adults too who can read a book on their own :P Basically, I think this question is something a high school student would ask, not a graduate student.
 
The request is ridiculous for you, I think it's quite reasonable.
 
@0celo7 Yes, I agree. That is because lectures do not precisely follow books
 
10:47 PM
@ACuriousMind No, because reading is hard
@ACuriousMind suppose one were to teach a course on Morse theory but left out all of the examples from Milnor
is it unreasonable to ask the lecturer to include more examples to motivate the material?
 
@0celo7 No. Asking a lecturer to give more examples "like in Milnor" is not unreasonable. Asking them to "follow the book more closely" is.
 
@ACuriousMind Hmm, maybe they're supposed to be the same question
 
Maybe. (It's still a somewhat silly question because if you want more examples then ask for more examples. What's the question about that?)
 
@ACuriousMind now we agree
 
In unrelated news, "muons live longer because of time dilation" is now my third-highest voted answer :(
that's just ridiculous
 
10:57 PM
I regret upvoting it now
Good answer, that could be made better with a couple of references. — Floris yesterday
When I saw this question I said "of course, but I don't know any specifics"
"muons" is not specific
 
He's completely right but I don't care enough about that question to bother.
 
@ACuriousMind I think it's immoral to have three times as many votes as words
@ACuriousMind Damn, I have an idea about the orientation thing
maybe a more useful definition of out/in
 
@0celo7 lol. Well, it's not immoral, but it is ridiculous, and not how it should work if there isn't some deep insight in those words (and there isn't, in this case)
 
@ACuriousMind ok, take $N$ and $e_1,e_2,e_3$ tangent to $\Sigma$
combine all of them
if there exists a $\mathrm{GL}^+(4)$ transformation that takes this into a positively oriented basis, then $N$ points outwards
@ACuriousMind it's abuse
 
@0celo7 Uh, what if I take $-e_1,e_2,e_3$ instead of $e_1,e_2,e_3$?
That doesn't look as if it is independent of the choice of $e_i$
 
11:04 PM
@ACuriousMind dang it
ok the $e_i$ have to be positively oriented wrt. the induced orientation
 
"positively oriented" for arbitrary vectors means $e_1\wedge e_2\wedge e_3 = k\mathrm{d}V$ for positive $k$?
 
@ACuriousMind Yes, something like that
yea
exactly that
now how do we define $\mathrm{d}V$
 
Then it would seem to me the straightforward way to define $N$ "outward" is to say that $N,e_1,e_2,e_3$ are postively oriented
 
oh it's just $\sqrt{h}\mathrm{d}x^1\wedge\mathrm{d}x^2\wedge\mathrm{d}x^3$
 
@0celo7 It's the volume form belonging to the induced metric and the induced orientation.
 
11:07 PM
@ACuriousMind is the induced orientation a topological thing?
@ACuriousMind is that not what I said?
 
@0celo7 It is, I just sent that before you wrote (or I received) what you said
 
@ACuriousMind uh
@ACuriousMind I'm looking at theorem 15.32 in Lee on page 390
 
@0celo7 Yes, just take the "orientation form" (any volume form that induces the orientation on the whole manifold) and pull it back.
 
when I have time I will try to find where the Lorentzian case gets a minus sign
 
(Okay, that's not "topological" strictly speaking because it uses a smooth form, but it's enough here)
 
11:10 PM
@ACuriousMind yeah by topological I meant "no metric"
@ACuriousMind we shall continue this later...
@ACuriousMind it would be pretty cool if her mom turned out to be a lawyer physicist and was willing to talk about volume forms on Lorentzian manifolds
 
I would expect you to immediately leave her for her mother. Yes, that would be pretty cool :D
 
That'd be awesome
 
11:49 PM
@FenderLesPaul first rejection :o
 
@GPhys ::hug::
 

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