The Loop

Wyck

12:19 AM

hmm I got 1595 functions yet queryposts.com says there are 1918

actually 1575 forgot to delete themes

Stephen Harris

2:18 AM

wpavengers.com

> Average user creates 5 new tickets every month." and it costs "$4 to service each ticket

- quote attributed to Adii

Surely that can't be right. For the first month maybe, but every month. Their average user has to go back to support 60 times a year?

Wyck

ya that's bs no one is creating tickets after a few months

userabuser

2:31 AM

wtf is this wpavengers bs?

Wyck

2:55 AM

hmm when I run get_defined_functions by including all files via an Iterator or just using wp-blog-header.php , they both return 1575 functions..

@Rarst Why does qp say 1918 functions?

Rarst

5:33 AM

@Wyck in admin?

Wyck

@Rarst shrug I thought I was iterating over everything, not sure what it's missing

Rarst

are you running this in admin?

Wyck

no from root, it's not using anything related to wordpress

Rarst

then admin functions are not loaded

Wyck

ah I thought that was it, wonder if I should bother

Rarst

6:15 AM

alone in The Loop, there should be a badge for this

Sven

7:09 AM

@Rarst Good morning :)

Rarst

no such thing :)

Sven

8:47 AM

Is the_content() always filtered by wptexturize()?

I mean, if I use the Text Editor instead of the Visual Editor...

I know that this does not make sense at all, but it seems to be broken on my site :/

Tom J Nowell

9:06 AM

easily testable

remove_action( 'the_content', 'wptexturize' ); ?

Rarst

9:31 AM

@Sven the_content filters are applied on output, not save. so your editor mode doesn't matter for them

kaiser

@Rarst sure about that? wpautop...

Rarst

@kaiser no :)

by the latest count there are 145K lines of PHP code in WP. being sure about anything in that is wishful thinking. :)

kaiser

throw out 3rd party libs (like SimplePie) and JS libs (like TinyMCE) and suddenly WP is 5k of lines and looks like a cropped poodle.

Rarst

not really, still a lot

kaiser

9:56 AM

I just thought about downloading a copy and removing everything. then separating it into stuff wp has exclusive and stuff it integrates, "maintains" and has as only software. guess the first part won't be too much. Or is just much because it's redundant admin templates.

Rarst

Tom J Nowell

dealing with more tests and build automation I envisage some restructuring of folders or other stuff will happen simply out of convenience, though wether this is major or minor, and wether it's something we'd approve of I don't know

Rarst

new ID3 things is a monster size-wise

still, even with that there is more of core than libs

kaiser

Funny that deprecated.php is larger than SimplePie or PHPMailer 8)

And as we all know: wp-admin could be below 1/10th of size when it would use a templating system.

woops! simplepie wrapper I meant.

Rarst

@TomJNowell problem is when stuff is moved precious backwards compat is lost. when Nacin refactored theme stuff he moved number of funcs to deprecated and my plugin exploded

kaiser

10:08 AM

The new grunt file for WP

Stephen Harris

@userabuser A 'group led by Nathan Walker', other than that, who knows?

Rarst

@StephenHarris who cares?

Stephen Harris

@Rarst Brian, Carrie dils, and pippin apparently :).

Maybe next week's guest on "Kaiser's [Have You] Got [Dev] Talent?"?

2

kaiser

Thought we already had pippin on templates ?

Now show me that Brian and that Carrie... code in the city.

Tom J Nowell

@Rarst you were manually including files inside core?

Rarst

10:23 AM

@TomJNowell yes. it's not like we have autoload...

kaiser

10:34 AM

{
  "name": "WordPress",
  "version": "3.7.0",
  "description": "WordPress is web software you can use to create a beautiful website or blog.",
  "repository": {
    "type": "svn",
    "url": "https://develop.svn.wordpress.org/trunk"
  },
  "author": "The WordPress Contributors",
  "license": "GPLv2 or later",
  "devDependencies": {
    "grunt": "~0.4.1",
    "grunt-contrib-clean": "~0.5.0",
    "grunt-contrib-copy": "~0.4.1",
    "grunt-contrib-cssmin": "~0.6.1",
    "grunt-contrib-uglify": "~0.2.2",

> WordPress is a web software that you can use to create a beautiful or ugly-as-shit website or blog

Rarst

where the heck is this disaster of composer.json from?

kaiser

would be nice to see a Git link to the GitHub mirror at least

Rarst

or it's not composer?

kaiser

@Rarst develop.svn.wordpress.org

official new site

Rarst

not Composer...

kaiser

10:36 AM

or repo or whatever that now is called

@Rarst nope. is it packagist?

Oh, npm?

Rarst

not Composer-related file, don't know what it is

kaiser

npm for sure

Hm. Considering to make a Have you got dev talent show now. Any idea for a domain? :)

Stephen Harris

@kaiser have-you-got-dev-talent.com?

HYGDT.com?

kaiser

 wpdev.com

got example theme - placeholder

http://wptalent.com

The "Guardian Angle"-Movie 8|

Stephen Harris

@kaiser "I'm a PHP developer, get me out of here!"

kaiser

10:41 AM

@StephenHarris hehe. that's still free :)

Stephen Harris

Anyone else think the "Twenty Fourteen" theme looks a bit busy / dark ?

Rarst

I think with those font sizes it can go die in a fire

kaiser

Not only that. Why the heck does it stick to the left side of the monitor?

Rarst

That design is responsive. Its response is "fuck you."

Tweeted by iammattthomas on May 10, 2012 at 9:06 PM

kaiser

11:14 AM

Now please explain me since when that works on GitHub??

Rarst

@kaiser june

kaiser

link? Couldn't find anything.

Rarst

github.com/blog/1528-there-s-a-map-for-that

Rarst

11:56 AM

The entire WordCamp Europe speaker list is here! http://wp.me/p2TJi9-1hNt #wceu

Tweeted by WCEurope on August 7, 2013 at 11:51 AM

I dread WPSE crowd at Adii's talk :)

Mohit

12:15 PM

Hi guys, Today i got this email from my theme reviewer : Check the sidebar with monster widget, it can use some design changes, Long select menu is overflowing the sidebar.

what's this?

Rarst

@Mohit Monster Widget

Mohit

I am using it

Long select menu is overflowing the sidebar.?

Rarst

look at the sidebar and see what is overflowing?..

kaiser

12:33 PM

npm install

responds with ...

> You should bug the author to publish it

Then it notifies me ...

> You can as well can install it from a tarball, http url, ...

... or I can simply download it, stupid fucking npm

bungeshea

@kaiser It's npm, so you can install the modules required to run Grunt

kaiser

I don't need Grunt. Just need to pull in one 3rd party lib from GitHub

It's plain simple local HTML index.html file that I want to use for "quickly" develop something. But I don't want to add a Git submodule and fuck with that.

bungeshea

Oh, I thought you were working with core

kaiser

nope. no wp involved.

bungeshea

Seeing as you posted core's package.json

kaiser

12:40 PM

and bower just isn't an option. seems to only run perfect from windows own cli according to their pages. and I seriously don't want to deal with that.

@bungeshea understood :) still: no.

bungeshea

@kaiser what shell are you using?

kaiser

mysysgit / Git Bash / GNU Bash - one product, three names

bungeshea

Bower works fine for me from Git Bash…

kaiser

require.js, angular.js, backbone.js, node.js, npm, bower, grunt, ... all the kool kids. but nobody really gets around how to play with them.

bungeshea

grunt is cool. Don't tend to use the others

kaiser

12:45 PM

@bungeshea "works fine" ... and did you try to setup and update dependencies for some projects that are hosted on GitHub? That's what's failing for me.

bungeshea

I use Uglify instead of require.js, don't care about angular or backbone, use npm and grunt

@kasier not sure. Haven't really used it properly yet, just had a look at it

kaiser

But the point is that I don't even want to use it from the CLI. I want one JSON file where I define the dependency and then simply say "go update everything" like I can do with composer.

bungeshea

You use Sublime Text, right? Havr you tried the Fetch plugin?

kaiser

phpStorm

bungeshea

Works like bower, but you can define the files

Hmm…

I don't like how Bower downloads the whole project

kaiser

12:48 PM

Don't want something that's IDE dependent. Others should be able to use it as well. npm seemed to be valid, but anyway I've to take what the project offers.

link to GitHub project that I need as dependency.

kaiser

1:01 PM

Thing is driving me crazy...

GhostToast

@kaiser my cousin is in france now. he posted a bunch of photos. i'm so jealous. he'll be in germany later

kaiser

@GhostToast ehm... I'm from Austria ...

GhostToast

@kaiser i know. we discussed this before :)

to me europe is all the same, since i've never been there. not saying each country is identical, but each one seems as interesting as the next

Rarst

dude... :)

kaiser

ok... :)

GhostToast

1:05 PM

you guys been to the states?

kaiser

yep. but more than 10 years ago

Rarst

I was deemed unworthy of entering

kaiser

hehe

ppl were frightened by your hair

GhostToast

sorry @rarst. well, i've lived in Texas, Florida, and 2 regions of Illinois

and visited both coasts. each area is so totally different

i wonder how similar that is to europe, is all. culture + geography + climate

kaiser

nothing at all

GhostToast

1:11 PM

i mean so far as each [state | country] being so different in [USA | Europe]

kaiser

yeah. now imagine that each country got at least one language - most got more. than imagine that each state got several sorts of dialects.

GhostToast

and different laws, currencies (or not anymore?)

kaiser

We're 8.x million ppl in Austria. Languages: (Austrian) German, Old Croatian/Burgenland-Croatian, Old Slovenian/Carinthia Slovenian, Hungarian, Windisch, Hianzerisch, Romani, Czech, Slovak, Turkish, Serb, etc.

Currencies: Some. U.K. got Pound, Czech Republic Crowns and then there're those countries who are not yet meeting shared currency needs.

GhostToast

hmm. we have some annoyingly diff laws. of note: marijuana (some states have legalized), fireworks, gun laws, speed limits. but mostly its the same i think for a typical traveler

kaiser

1:27 PM

Same over here: Each country got different laws. Some even differ between a countries states. Speed limits fees in Germany for example. Or building laws in Austrian states. At least those are two examples I'm aware off.

GhostToast

Legality of cannabis by US state

The use, sale, and possession of cannabis (marijuana) in the United States is illegal under federal law. Cannabis is listed as a Schedule I substance under the Controlled Substances Act of 1970, the highest classification under the legislation. This means that the substance has been decided by the federal government to have both high abuse potential and no established, safe medical use. However, individual state laws do not always conform to the federal standard. State-level proposals for the rescheduling of cannabis have met with mixed success. A number of states have decriminalized...

kaiser

IIRC it's somehow legal in Portugal and Spain. Has been free in Switzerland (which is not part of E.U.). Legal for Netherlands citizens, but not foreigners, etc. Then there're amounts you may own that don't get sanctioned when they catch you the first two times in most of the countries. But amount is different, etc.

Question always is: Who cares. If you visit a club in Vienna, then you normally smell it in lots of places.

@bungeshea Tested the following and can confirm it works: Add a basic bower.json to the root of your repo. Go and enter bower install https://github.com/etc --save into CLI. Bower adds dependency to your bower.json file.

userabuser

1:56 PM

@kaiser what is driving you crazy mate?

kaiser

NPM and Bower. But finally figured it out. Now I got two dependency routes for a single HTML test suite... :/

userabuser

@Rarst "Adii Pienaar – Lessons Learned from Being First" .... I bet nothing more than Woo propaganda.

@kaiser sounds like fun... not :|

I'll be really interested in the talk: Nikolay Bachiyski – To OOP or not to OOP

and to see the expressions on peoples faces when Rarst says "Composer all the things!"

wish I could be there, sounds like it's going to be a great event.

Rikesh

Hello

Any one familiar with wp paid membership pro plugin ?

userabuser

@Rikesh which one? this one... paidmembershipspro.com ?

Rarst

@userabuser it would be by far not the worst thing I will say :)

or quote.

userabuser

2:06 PM

hey, I'm not just saying this but it's the second most interesting talk I see on the list...

so should be good :D

Rikesh

@userabuser - yes

Rarst

I am torturing slides out of my mind... should occupy me for august

Rikesh

I have customize it according to my requirement . But stuck at one place

userabuser

@Rarst yeah make sure you make the slides available when your talk is over

@Rikesh never used the plugin but how about asking a question on the main site?

Rikesh

i scare if it get close by off topic

Still I have to give a try ... Thanks @userabuser

userabuser

2:11 PM

@Rikesh make sure your question is clear, concise and shows supporting information of what you have tried if anything. You should be fine..

kaiser

@Rikesh No need to ask on the main side. 99% chance to get it shot down for being closed source.

If no one can test the code than it's a guessing game.

Don't you have support from that guys over there?

userabuser

...depends on the question though

Rikesh

Support is paid :p

kaiser

Did you pay for the plugin? And no support included?

Rikesh

I just hope someone has obivously come cross to this thing

No it's a free one, but for support we need to pay

kaiser

2:14 PM

Ask on the Google+ communities. Your best bet.

@Rikesh Is it work related?

Rikesh

Can you provide me the link ? I'm not familiar with Google+

kaiser

Register to G+ > Go to communities > Search for WordPress. Choose a community that fits. Make sure to read guidelines before asking.

Rarst

@userabuser sure :)

kaiser

I'll sit in there, takeover @Rarst twitter account and stream a live set of hilarious quotes :)

Rarst

want to be my Gennady? :)

userabuser

2:23 PM

@kaiser please.. :D

kaiser

Damn! Knew there was something wrong with that plan! :D

Rarst

wrong what?

kaiser

I don't want to be a Gennady

Rarst

ok then, tweet from your own account :)

s1lv3r

Hey all,
quick question: My wordpress install always wants to use the ftp-wrapper for updates (already did chmod 777 and chown but didn't help). I believe there was a way to force wordpress to use direct file access, but I can't find it now .... has anyone a clue?

Rarst

2:34 PM

@s1lv3r codex.wordpress.org/…

s1lv3r

@Rarst Ah, perfect. Thank you. :-)

kaiser

3:04 PM

@Rarst I'll build a scraper that rips off your presentation, then tweets it in parts faster than you can talk.

userabuser

@kaiser will you provide a json api for the scraped presentation?

kaiser

Nope. I'll leave that to Twitter. Heard their service is incomparable.

Great. No answer on SO about bulk-updating bower dependencies. Doing that via shell script is a major pain in the ass...

userabuser

@kaiser tougher answers on SO are slower in forthcoming

kaiser

Thought that's not a tough question... until now.

Close to 40°C outside. Every day a new heat wave record. I'm dying outside.

Saw a black guy walking in the sunshine. Smiling. ... 8)

userabuser

3:24 PM

lol

kaiser

There will come September. The month where he will start wearing hood, gloves and down jacket and I still wear a T-Shirt.

GhostToast

@all you guys who do hosting (VPS / dedicated) -- do you host email on web server? or use something else? getting tired of dealing with email issues for clients

kaiser

Normally e-mail is covered by domain providers as well. I always tell mine to leave mail there, so they don't have issues and downtime when we choose to migrate. Works well, everyone's happy. Especially me.

GhostToast

yea. i am using WHM/Cpanel and constantly have clients griping about email.

we use gmail for our own

kaiser

But I close to never do hosting stuff. Most of clients are agencies who take care of themselves.

GhostToast

3:33 PM

i do hosting personally. at a slight loss. but at least i get to host my own sites "Free"

then we do it in office. and its only nice because of control. we know sites will be delivered 99% and not slow, and troubleshooting WEB stuff is easy enough. but email is a bitch.

s1lv3r

3:47 PM

@kaiser same here. :-P

@GhostToast email sucks ... - but much better since I got a seperate server for it. Mixing web & mail really isn't a great idea.

GhostToast

@s1lv3r who do you go with?

s1lv3r

@GhostToast hosting everything at rootservers from OVH (largest provider here in europe) ...

GhostToast

i just think linux kind of sucks at being a mail toaster, sadly. too many things go wrong

not that i want to run an exchange server. i really dont want to fiddle with email at all

s1lv3r

:D ... atleast a ton of things can happen ... actually mail is a damn complex thing to handle.

I'm selling hosted exchange (also via ovh) for all mail power users (25 gb mailboxes with each account) ... glad I don't have to take care of them :)

GhostToast

what is cost per user? or how is that broken down? and they handle support directly from client if there is an issue?

i can do conversion from your currency

s1lv3r

3:53 PM

Give me a sec to search .. I think they also sell to the US.

ovh.com (seems like it reroutes automatically based on IP location)

GhostToast

hmm.

s1lv3r

hmm ... I can't see english prices. I pay 3,96 € / user / month.

Microsoft also sells hosted exchange as cloud solution them self, I think they where a bit cheaper ... but no direct support.

kaiser

4:16 PM

1

A: Make WooCommerce questions off topic

(Oh, look, Woo announces major price increases and removes their forums, and WooCommerce-related questions start flooding WPSE.) That's one more reason: Woo has the temerity to remove their own community support forums, pawn off community support onto other outlets such as WPSE, and then raise t...

Seem now @ChipBennet also sees a reason to move WooCommerce out-of-scope / too localized. I personally have never seen a reason to leave it on topic.

Howdy_McGee

Why is it advised for admin panel metaboxes to use nonces? Every example I see of creation and saving metabox data there are nonces involved but aren't nonces a bit unnecessary in this case?

kaiser

4:30 PM

If I could improve one thing about the WordPress project, it would be to make contributions less about kingmaking and more about merit.

Tweeted by danielbachhuber on August 7, 2013 at 4:20 PM

just saying what others are afraid to say hehe

Sisir

Got a newsletter form woo themes. Now they will charge yearly for all products.. practically it will make their products unuseable

kaiser

4:43 PM

So who already tried Yeoman.io ?

Wyck

4:57 PM

so is woo off-topic?

Rarst

@Howdy_McGee nonces verify intent. it's never a bad idea and it's not that hard to make use of.

Wyck

@Sisir it's still GPL so once it's out, it will be out, just no support

kaiser

@Wyck I'd say yes, as it was one of the more opinionated tickets with enough votes, but mods need to change rules... Maybe we need another Meta discussion about it. Feel free to open a question.

Wyck

@kaiser I think we need to convince toscho

Sisir

@Wyck I think we are going to see more and more of woo themes questions as now there is no support for them..

kaiser

5:03 PM

@Wyck open a new question. if we get enough quotes even he will have to bend :)

@Sisir that's what Chip stated in his answer.

toscho

I still have to see a good reason to declare questions about the free Woocommerce plugin as off topic.

Wyck

I don't really care I have never used a woo product..

Sisir

yes.. just saw it.. and +1 from me..

toscho

@Wyck the meta question isn’t about themes, it is about the Woocommerce plugin.

kaiser

@toscho They simply add no value to the site. There won't come a day where those questions will start getting answered.

toscho

5:05 PM

Unanswered questions will be deleted automatically after a while.

If we do this, we must declare all plugins as off topic, including bbPress and buddypress.

Wyck

and wpml (200 questions) who have the same model as woocommerce

kaiser

> GitHub is for bug reports and contributions only - if you have a support question or a request for a customization don't post here. Use WooThemes Support for customer support, WordPress.org for community support, and for customisations we recommend one of the following services:

Rarst

@kaiser was you in the room when I asked about kartograph.org ? since you seem to work with geo stuff

kaiser

@toscho They're (still) stating the fact that they want all support in their own routes in the readme. For me, that's enough to say "Go to Woo for support. They ask you to do so."

toscho

Why should we bend to their rules?

kaiser

5:09 PM

in this single case it just feels ok.

Rarst

the essence of woo issue is that we want to kick them because we don't like them and that's not good enough to single them out

2

kaiser

@Rarst yes, but it's not about this library currently. Just taking some OpenData stuff as a use case to learn something about npm, bower, grunt and such.

toscho

and that’s the whole argument: it feels okay

Sisir

god! i love down voating

Rarst

@kaiser I was asking, not suggesting :) had you worked with it? I want to make pretty map for the slide, without driving myself crazy

toscho

5:11 PM

@Sisir wrong, flag as spam instead!

Sisir

@toscho deleted before I do that :)

kaiser

@Rarst didn't try it. thing I'm after is having GeoJSON > Google converter running.

Rarst

I just want a pretty slide... :)

kaiser

So no kartograph involved. Also I thought it's more a mix of FrontEndDev and DTP, so not really interesting for me.

@Rarst then I'd just try it on jsFiddle :)

Rarst

it seems to start with Python

kaiser

5:14 PM

Two reasons: No dev stack needed + if you're out of option you can instantly show it to someone.

Python 8|

Rarst

5:32 PM

I like Python but I'd like to know size of rabbit hole with this lib :) pretty maps on site... but how long they took? hour? day? week? :)

Wyck

all of the above:)

where does one get all the pretty svg's to begin with

Rarst

as above - from python part of tool

kaiser

If not: Raphael and all that magic on top.... :)

Rarst

ugh, raphael is way too low level for me

Wyck

I meant the source I guess there are Creative Commons maps out there

kaiser

5:45 PM

What frightened me slightly was that 3D map where the DTP tools like Illustrator come in. SVG isn't really well handled at such large sizes. So better just render outlines, then import and then better be really good with AI to accomplish the good looking stuff.

One doesn't simply click "pretty" in Adope Illustrator.

And yes, Adope is the correct spelling :)

Sisir

6:22 PM

stumbled upon godaddy page for upcoming crazy domain extensions. That's a lot!

looks ridiculous to me..

Wyck

6:45 PM

they will probably cost a decent amount..if they ever go live

Sisir

I like .inc though. good for companies

kaiser

ok, yeoman extensions is massive overkill. no wonder there's nothing out there aside from core packages.

toscho

7:01 PM

The funny thing is: a domain word.press will not violate the trademark

Rarst

@toscho since "WPF" says what violates I am pretty sure they will have issue with such :)

toscho

they cannot change the registration text later

plus, word is a generic term

Rarst

will that stop Matt from making a scene and burying owner?

toscho

If would get the domain, I would register it as a trademark immediately

and then shout back :D

.online is a strange TLD

Sisir

I suspect its a publicity stunt..

toscho

7:12 PM

also .website

ahaha .онлайн

Sisir

@toscho what does it mean?

online

way to lame it up...

.makeup :)

well is there any .breakup? :)

toscho

7:17 PM

.wtf is nice

Sisir

@toscho i would buy one

toscho

.koeln and .cologne meh

kaiser

why is there no .kaiser TLD? would have bought one...

Wyck

you can get your own, newgtlds.icann.org/en/applicants/corner

plug status none of which have been approved as far as I can tell: gtldresult.icann.org/application-result/applicationstatus/…

1960 in the list lol

actually lot of duplicates, I wonder if it goes to highest bidder

toscho

@kaiser there is .kid which might fit better for you. :P

Or, if you can type it: .дети

Sisir

7:22 PM

@toscho lol

@Wyck how does it work? you apply for one and if approved they start a new one?

Wyck

ya, something like that, but there are trademarks and a whole process and it's expesive

these guys seem to have applied for hundreds of them, donuts.co

I remember reading they costa min of 50k (might be totally wrong)

kaiser

@toscho might consider taking something similar if there's a TLD .block

Sisir

it should be expensive or tld like .sisir or .kaiser will fly around :)

Wyck

intial price: $185,000.

operational by September 2013

toscho

someone tried to register .vermögensberater and .vermögensberatung. WTF?

Argh, .католик

this will be a chaos

Wyck

7:29 PM

> ICANN will use a lottery to decide the order in which to process new gTLD applications

SO PONY UP 185K

vanity urls anyone?

register super rich peoples names and then resell it to them

i want .boobs

sisirs.boobs?

mmmm.boobs

tiny.boobs, big.boobs iLike.boobs etc :)

I wonder how google will deal with them.. SEO point of view

toscho

query.boobs

kaiser

7:36 PM

 alltheboobslike.me

hehe

ok, maybe @toscho is right and I should spend 185k for .kid

toscho

there might also be .virgin

kaiser

But investing on that is left to you

toscho

Someone did already

kaiser

never. ever

Sisir

what about 1 letter tld? i.m/sisir

or .html, .php etc cool!

Stephen Harris

7:43 PM

@toscho .offline would be stranger. Makes sense though: [company-name].online

toscho

why does that make sense? if it is a public address it is online already

3.7 chat will start soon

kaiser

9:16 PM

@toscho link?

toscho

on IRC freenode. It is over now anyway

Wyck

there is a transcript here irclogs.wordpress.org/chanlog.php?channel=wordpress-dev

not sure when it's updated

actually it's up to date

/traces toscho's ip and find him in the woods near Haina, Germany

Stephen Harris

@toscho ah poo,forgot. Did I miss much?

toscho

yes

Stephen Harris

9:31 PM

@toscho Yes but think of it as the "company online" - i.e. the online part distinguishes it from the its offline parts (shops etc). Make sense to me anyway :/

toscho

@StephenHarris I don’t think the average visitor will make such a subtle distinction.

kaiser

9:44 PM

Read through dev chat... nothing useful

Wyck

it's a move to make things go faster imo, speed up dev, smaller teams, new tools

kaiser

New things to learn. Raising barrier to participate.

Then there's the problem that those tools are new and none of the people who added that stuff seem to be hard core users of those kool tools. Not sure if it's an appropriate use it. Guess chance that people will just have a new frontier to fight on isn't that low.

I didn't find it too easy to handle all that stuff. Been learning that stuff for ~4h today with not that much success. Lots of things to remember like CLI commands, etc. And at least most is just package manager.

Wyck

for grunt?

kaiser

for grunt wat?

Wyck

running grunt with core is complex? (I have no idea never used grunt)

kaiser

10:00 PM

I don't even know much about Grunt - just what I read. But handling dependencies with bower and/or npm isn't fun at all.

Meant that.

Wyck

Ill have to try out out soon